# General > Politics >  Police Scotland Overspend : Need another £25 millions

## rob murray

see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34650223 despite claims that a single police force would result in effeciency and cost savings ( SNP government ) it seems that Police Scotland our single police force faces an over spend of £25 millions.......this is not anti SNP "prooganda" but a reported factual situation, savings have obviously not been made and that was the rationale pushed by the SNP government. NO matter which parties govern they have to face up to their mistakes and fix them. SO this joins the NHS crisis and Education attainment gaps just two scenarios that squarely lie at Holyrood and the SNP. Of course you could say that its all lies and anti SNP media reporting but is everyone lying ???

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## BetterTogether

Don't forget the Police  Scotland Vat debacle which they where warned about on numerous occasions but ploughed on regardless now have the cheek to blame Westminster for not changing the rules to suit them.

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## rob murray

> Don't forget the Police  Scotland Vat debacle which they where warned about on numerous occasions but ploughed on regardless now have the cheek to blame Westminster for not changing the rules to suit them.


I knew about a vat issue but wasnt clear on what it was...care to summarise for folk who dont know ?

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## BetterTogether

Probably easier to read this.

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/pol...ammed-1.859532

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## rob murray

> Probably easier to read this.
> 
> http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/pol...ammed-1.859532


From the piece : 
George McIrvine, branch secretary for Unison Police Staff Scotland, said: “What is particularly galling is the fact this Scottish Government and the then justice secretary Kenny MacAskill knew all along that due to a merger to a single force, and the subsequent removal from local authority power to a non-departmental public body, exemption of VAT would be removed.  “Because of their blind ignorance to Unison’s pleas at the time in March 2012, when we took the initiative to investigate the VAT issue, the Scottish Government has effectively imposed a further year-on-year financial burden on an already strained policing budget.
“It is yet another crisis in what is turning into a shambles for Scottish policing, which affects the public and the hard-working and loyal staff and officers employed within the service,” Mr McIrvine said.....Kenny MacAkill...the nowhere man.....and is George McIrvine an anti SNP propoganda merchant ???

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## BetterTogether

They have been trying to pin the blame on Westminster for not changing the rules to suit them using Academy School as an example. But the more I read it seems that they knew all along the implications and just carried on regardless and have now found themselves in a situation of their own making and are grasping at straws to apportion blame elsewhere. I will try and find the copies of letters I've seen to assist you in more fully understanding.

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## rob murray

> They have been trying to pin the blame on Westminster for not changing the rules to suit them using Academy School as an example. But the more I read it seems that they knew all along the implications and just carried on regardless and have now found themselves in a situation of their own making and are grasping at straws to apportion blame elsewhere. I will try and find the copies of letters I've seen to assist you in more fully understanding.


ANything that involved MacAskill would have been a disaster...he's that useless he was dumped. The entire process was a a farce, government papers ( ie their own words ) on line outline that the prefered option from stakeholder groups involved in the consultation process was to leave the police set up as was and at worse create 3 forces....but nah somehow this was twisted to support for a single force. THey can create blame scenarios all they like but the facts are there is a predicted over spend in an area where they sought to make savings ( through creation of a single police force )  regardless of the vat situation and regardless of what people wanted.

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## BetterTogether

Here's the letter from Macaskill

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## BetterTogether

The reply from David Gauke, Treasury

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## BetterTogether

See also VAT Notice 749 which outlines principles in S33.

https://t.co/RLhz614uk2

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## BetterTogether

You could also read this from Unison

http://www.unison-scotland.org.uk/stuc2014/18.html

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## rob murray

Macaskills letter is dated June 2012, Police Scotland was formed in 2013...so they went ahead and set up a single police force knowing that the vat issue wasnt resolved ..... also Gaulkes reply clearly kicks the vat issue into touch again in JUne 2012....so game set and match...they can bawl and shout at westminster but they instigated the police reforms a ) knowing the vat situation and b ) the consulation exercise clearly rejected a single police force. Of course its all indefensible, but who will be reading this thread and do you think that the SNP army will be concerned......nah......its all english lies and we are traitors spreading anti snp propoganda.

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## BetterTogether

Don't know how much credence to give this but I've just heard Grampian is about to be reformed

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## rob murray

THis issue is to important to be a footnote on this thread so Ive opened up a new one.....for all the difference it will make, but honestly the  police scotland debacle illustrates the style and cluture of the SNP government.

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## BetterTogether

Another point is that academy School, PSNI,BBC , Highways England are so few in number as to be exceptions to the rule. The western Isles electorate had to take it on the chin when the BCCI collapsed just as we all have to deal with the mistakes made by elected representatives in liberal democracies. Make bad investments you don't expect to get your money back.

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