# General > Politics >  What is the point of Labour anymore?

## Shabbychic

I just don't get them. I mean JC wanders about the UK promising he is going to do loads of supery, dupery things. He even claims he will bring down this Tory government, and it all sounds great. He gets his supporters all fired up and ready to go, then they head into Parliament, and instead of voting against Bills he promised to oppose, he suddenly changes his mind and tells his team to ABSTAIN.


Take the Immigration Bill the other night, with all the nasty wee clauses in it. First the members were told to abstain, and although many objected to this, some just packed up and headed home. Then suddenly, because of all the objections, they were told, with an hour or so to go, if anybody was still hanging about, they should vote against it, with the result it passed by, I think, 63. They could easily have taken that one.


I really don't think JC wants to be PM. I believe he just wants to sit back in the opposition benches and blame everything on the Tories....after all, he didn't vote for it, (CETA anyone?) when in fact, by abstaining, he most certainly did.


I read somewhere the other day that Dr Martin Luther King once said: "If you see a good fight, get in it." but JC's motto seems to be: "If you see a good fight, volunteer to haud the jaikets."


Anybody have any idea what is really going on in the modern Labour Party?

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## B0wer

Personally I think Scottish Labour should splinter from UK Labour which is looking more and more like Mr Corbyns Socialist fantisy party. I don't think he actually wants to be prime minister. He is quite happy raking in money as an opposition that can promise everything and anything, even contradictory things because it will never have to actually find the money it says is out there. Give him 3 months in Office and either the UK will be totally bankrupt and not running because he has nationalised everything with the last of the money and can't afford to run it. Or we will see the biggest series of u turns in political history as he discovers the magic money tree doesn't exist.

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## aqua

Scottish Labour is at this moment even more incompetent than UK Labour. The Scottish Labour leader is even more useless than Corbyn. I think he’s called Richard. What’s his surname? I don’t know.

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## Fulmar

How do you know? Do you haunt the chamber in Holyrood and listen to every debate?

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## aqua

Yeah.  :Smile: 

Richard who?

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## Fulmar

Richard Leonard.

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## aqua

Who he?  :Smile:

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## Fulmar

I'm not really sure what your point is. What does 'who he' mean?
If you want to find out what Richard Leonard stands for, it isn't hard to do. If you disagree with his views, fair enough.

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## aqua

Are you a Richard Wotsisname supporter then?

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## B0wer

> Are you a Richard Wotsisname supporter then?


 That's not the point. You cannot slate someone without actually looking at what they stand for and forming an opinion on that. Politics isn't a popularity contest it's a means of serving the will of the people. Some are better at it than others and that can be seen by a) the manifesto (what they promise) and b) their debates (what they do)
Argue that his policies are piss if you want but don't write a politician off with "who he" simply because he doesn't hog the headlines.

Oh so long ago I voted for a Scottish parliament but I'm not a Sturgeon supporter. Because the neverendum is ignoring democratic process and distracting the party from their day job of actually using the powers we already have. And I'm not a Corbyn supporter because I have read his stuff and disagree - not with everything and not necessarily with the ideals but rather the implementation of those ideals. I think the Tory party is a bunch of crooks but that doesn't stop me from reading their stuff and agreeing with an odd policy now and again. Richard Lenord does a site better than the corbynites. And as you seem to be unaware of the work he does you can read his debates here  https://www.parliament.scot/msps/cur...onard-msp.aspx 

I suggest aqua you actually come up with tangible arguments or leave the politics to people who want to have an adult discussion.

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## aqua

Ok, practise what you preach. Tell us why Richard Whohe isn’t useless.

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## B0wer

> Ok, practise what you preach. Tell us why Richard Whohe isn’t useless.


Ok for one in 2017 he successfully changed the Scottish governments pledge to freeze certain cuts. By the time he had finished the pledge was to "use its powers to stop cuts to local services AND offer an alternative to Conservative austerity to the people of Scotland"

He is part of a number of boards that support working people including the WASPI board. His dedication to the working classes isn't just hype his voting record show he actually means this, for example this year he voted for 
"the Scottish Government to provide streamlined support to business start-ups and to ensure that such support should continue in order to discourage successful businesses being bought over, rather than grown rooted in the Scottish economy."

There is only so much any minister can do while in opposition.  Given his current track record of actually supporting and doing the things he says he will he is (currently) one of the more trustworthy politicians.

I'm not saying Richard is a saint. I'm not saying I'd vote for him. (I'll wait to see who has the best policies at the time - ever the political chameleon me.)

But he (and every other politician) deserves to have more than a "who he".

Love him or hate him do so on his policies not on his personality.

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## aqua

Ok so Richard does stuff. That doesnt make him a leader. Being a successful leader requires leadership and public visibility. He doesnt radiate either quality.

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## Fulmar

Why don't you volunteer yourself since you seem to know so much about leadership qualities?

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## aqua

What was his surname again? 

Lenny, that’s it, Richard Lenny. Corbyn apologist and small time trade union fixer.

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## dozy

It's funny how both the Libdems and labour ended up is such a mess after getting into bed with the Tories.  Is there a connection between the huge raise in Labour membership that happens to vote for Cordyn, who I my eyes will never be a PM . Could there be a connection between the Tories and all those pop up ,crazy ,foul mouthed and religious hating JC supporters . Maybe it's many Tory cuckoos in a Labour nest ,now that would make sense.

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## Bystander1

Anything makes more sense than posts from Dopy

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## aqua

> Anything makes more sense than posts from Dopy


Oh I don’t know, Corbyn and especially his chief apologist Chris Williamson don’t make much more sense than Dopy. Williamson’s grasp of reality is close to Trumpian.

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## aqua

Labour continue to go from disaster to disaster. Nine MPs left the party last week and this week Chris Williamson is suspended for supporting anti-semites.

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## aqua

Who he?

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news...rd-leonard-is/

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## aqua

Heard on a phone-in quiz on the radio recently:

Question: who is the leader of the Scottish Labour Party?

Answer: pass. 

The caller had no idea.

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## aqua

The most recent opinion poll I saw on Scottish voting intentions in the general election put Labour on 12%, which would be its lowest share of the vote for more than 100 years. 

Richard the unknown is doing a grand job.

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## aqua

Current polls predict Labour will win exactly one seat in the forthcoming general election. A great victory for Richard WhoHe.

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## orkneycadian

Interesting that in latest Panelbase / Sunday Times poll, that for Scotland, the polls are pretty close on 10, 20 30 and 40 % for the Lib Dems, Labour, Conservatives and SNP respectively.  Makes it easy for the mental arithmetic to answer the random questions "What support is there for the Brexit leaning parties, the remain leaning parties, unionists, seperatists, etc"

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## aqua

That’s quite a change from the analysis I would have quoted if I could remember where I read it!

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## aqua

Im catching up with the analysis of polls. The main change from a week or so ago seems to be a Tory recovery in the polls. They were predicted to win at most a handful of seats at that time. Now the prediction is that they will lose only one; namely Stirling. Both analyses predict meltdown for Labour, with Ian Murray in Edinburgh South as the sole Labour MP IN Scotland, just as in the 2015-17 parliament.

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## orkneycadian

> Anybody have any idea what is really going on in the modern Labour Party?


Anti semetism?

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## Shabbychic

> Anti semetism?



I'm far from being a Labour supporter these days, but all this Antisemitism nonsense is just a dirty smear campaign championed by the Tories........who have a great reputation for racism themselves, and always have had.

This election is turning into a really nasty business from all angles this time, one of the worst I've ever seen.

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## orkneycadian

I don't think Laura Keunssberg of the BBC is overly renowned for being a Conservative "smear campaigner";

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50567564

In fact, the BBC are more renowned for being Left supporting.

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## Shabbychic

> I don't think Laura Keunssberg of the BBC is overly renowned for being a Conservative "smear campaigner";
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50567564
> 
> In fact, the BBC are more renowned for being Left supporting.



It's amazing how we can see things so differently. 


I have always viewed Laura Kuenssberg as heavily leaning towards the Tories, and quite friendly with Boris. He even went as far as to quote the "die in a ditch" statement she made in recent times. That article link of hers, is not quite how I saw the interview, and I'm no Corbyn fan. (I sincerely hope he gets in, in England though.)


As for the BBC, once again in my view, they are very right wing nowadays, and BBC news very often seems to be a Party Political broadcast for the Right. Many of the top team at BBC are Tories, and then there are the BBC staff who leave to work for the Tory Party. I'm afraid Aunntie Beeb just ain't what it used to be. Every time, which is not often may I add, that I watch BBC news, I always think to myself "I wonder what the truth really is?"


Have you watched Question Time over the past couple of years? The amount of times Nigel Farage has been on, for example,  is way over the top, especially considering his Party's standing in Westminster. Then there are the regular audience "plants", especially in Scottish editions, but now being seen more and more often in England too. They are always from the Right.


Then there is the cutting of the laughter at Boris the other night at the leaders debate, and the changing footage of Boris laying the Remembrance wreath. I could go on....


But really, my statement about Antisemitism smears goes way beyond the BBC. The right wing media in this country is getting beyond a joke and most of the smearing comes from there. They want Brexit, and their backers and chiefs want Brexit, and they will do anything to make sure it happens.

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## j4bberw0ck

Shabbychic, you don't sound like a person who watched Andrew Neil comprehensively gut Jeremy Corbyn in his interview last evening, on the subject of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party - and that's both the Parliamentary party and the organisation.  All socialist administrations need a scapegoat to distract the hoi polloi's gaze from their governmental failings and the Jews are usually convenient.  Look also at the people Corbyn associates with.

And please don't start about right-wing BBC bias.  It'd be a first, were it to happen.

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## Shabbychic

> Shabbychic, you don't sound like a person who watched Andrew Neil comprehensively gut Jeremy Corbyn in his interview last evening, on the subject of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party - and that's both the Parliamentary party and the organisation.  All socialist administrations need a scapegoat to distract the hoi polloi's gaze from their governmental failings and the Jews are usually convenient.  Look also at the people Corbyn associates with.
> 
> And please don't start about right-wing BBC bias.  It'd be a first, were it to happen.


Actually I did watch it comprehensively, and obviously saw it differently from you. If you call shouting over someone constantly because he wants his point to be the only point, as Andrew Neil is famous for, as a gutting, then that's your prerogative. I call it bullying. What was he to apologise for anyway? He has apologised and sorted things out in the past apparently. To do so again on Neil's command is not what an interview should be about. I didn't watch the interview to see that, but to hear what his plans were if in government, especially regarding us. (he changes that about quite a bit, as he does with a lot of things.)

As for the Antisemitism in the Labour Party, I have no intentions of arguing their corner. What I will say is, much of it is regarding the present government policies in Israel, and how they deal with Palestine and other issues, which is not quite the same as hating Jews. Antisemitism is used far too loosely these days.




I'm sorry you don't see the BBC the way I do, but that's up to you.

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## Corky Smeek

In some respects there is a big difference between the BBC in London and BBC Scotland.  The connections between the Labour party and BBC Scotland are far too numerous and too close for any of their output to be considered balanced and impartial.  Consider the following:-

1.  During Indyref 1 the Head of BBC Scotland News and Current Affairs was John Boothman long term partner of Susan Deacon, Labour MSP (at the time).
2.  Also in 2014 BBC Scotland decided to give Kezia Dugdale, (Labour MSP at the time) her own politics-based radio 'phone-in show. The idea was dropped when,      after some test shows (not broadcast), it was realised that her talents were not ideally suited to the format, i.e. she was hopeless at it.
3.  The BBC appoint Sarah Smith, daughter of former Labour Party leader, John Smith as their Scotland Editor.
4.  Catriona Renton, BBC Scotland News Reporter is a former Labour Party Councillor.
5.  Kirsty Wark has, twice holidayed with Jack McConnell, former Labour Party First Minister, at her holiday home in Majorca.
6.  Then there was the Christmas List. The Labour Party provided the BBC with a set of SNP-bad stories to cover the politically quiet period over the festive season. BBC Scotland dutifully ran these as though they were news stories and not party political press releases. News of this leaked and it became embarrassing for the BBC as it was possible to predict their "exclusives" before they were broadcast.

Now, each one of these, taken on their own means nothing. Add them together and a rather worrying pattern emerges.

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## orkneycadian

> I have always viewed Laura Kuenssberg as heavily leaning towards the Tories, and quite friendly with Boris.


 ::  ::  ::

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## orkneycadian

> I'm far from being a Labour supporter these days, but all this Antisemitism nonsense is just a dirty smear campaign championed by the Tories........who have a great reputation for racism themselves, and always have had.


Conservative smear campaign?;

Uh-huh;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50585278

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## orkneycadian

So, 0.16% of standing Labour  candidates have had their parties support removed due to allegations of anti semetism.

Absolutely shocking. 

But, what's that I hear you say? 

1.7% of standing SNP candidates have had their parties support removed due to allegations of anti semetism?

Surely not? 

That means that the rate of SNP candidates accused of anti semetism is nearly 11 times higher than the allegedly anti Semitic Labour party!

Wow.

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## Alrock

Yes, there are Anti-Semitic members of the Labour Party, it is a natural home for them due to the support there is in the Labour Party for the Palestinians treatment by the state of Israel (an issue important to them)...

This does not make the Party itself Anti-Semitic.

Just like Islamaphobic people are more likely to be drawn towards the Tory Party but that does not make them an Islamaphobic party.

Yes, both sides could probably do more to root out the more extremist elements of their party, but like I said, this does not make them Anti-Semitic or Islamaphobic.

If you want me to be convinced that Labour is an Anti-Semitic Party then can you please point out to me an actual policy proposal that is Anti-Semitic?

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## orkneycadian

> Yes, there are Anti-Semitic members of the Labour Party, it is a natural home for them due to the support there is in the Labour Party for the Palestinians treatment by the state of Israel (an issue important to them)...
> 
> This does not make the Party itself Anti-Semitic.


I think the Labour party can now rest easy, given that the proportion of SNP election candidates who have had their parties support withdrawn due to allegations of anti Semitism is nearly 11 times higher. 

Labour would need to withdraw support from another 10 election candidates to match the SNP. Not impossible, but rather unlikely.

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## Shabbychic

> I think the Labour party can now rest easy, given that the proportion of SNP election candidates who have had their parties support withdrawn due to allegations of anti Semitism is nearly 11 times higher. 
> 
> Labour would need to withdraw support from another 10 election candidates to match the SNP. Not impossible, but rather unlikely.



That's a really a sad figure. Didn't know that. Could you name all these SNP candidates who have had support withdrawn from the Party, due to allegations of Antisemitism? I'm really interested.

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## Corky Smeek

> That's a really a sad figure. Didn't know that. Could you name all these SNP candidates who have had support withdrawn from the Party, due to allegations of Antisemitism? I'm really interested.


I'm fairly sure we will never be given a list of names. The intention behind the post was to deceive readers by presenting percentage values whilst ignoring absolute values.  

There are 59 Scottish constituencies.  If we do the calculations based on that then we discover that 1/59x100 = 1.69%, i.e 1 SNP candidate has had party support removed. In this example the percentage is 1.69 (or 1.7 if rounded up) and the absolute value is 1.

There are 650 UK contituencies. Doing a similar calculation shows 1/650x100 = 0.15, i.e 1 Labour Party candidate has had support withdrawn.

So, in absolute terms there is no difference between Labour and the SNP. Both have removed 1 candidate each.

So we have not been lied to in the strictest definition of the word but there has been a quite willful attempt to deceive and smear. This is all the more surprising when one considers how many Scottish Tories have had support removed for making islamophobic comments.  It currently numbers 2 (in absolute terms). 

I'm sure an explanation for this deception will be offered shortly.

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## j4bberw0ck

> I'm sure an explanation for this deception will be offered shortly.


Here it is:

1.  All political parties are lying through their teeth, or if not outright lying, misrepresenting facts (dubious and otherwise) - always do, probably always will.
2.  All politicians lie through their collective teeth according to what they believe that day will get them a vote - always do, probably always will.  All politicians share some sociopathic signs and behaviours; it's what drives them to want to be in power so they can tell us, the little people, how to behave and what to think. 
3.  There's a General Election coming up in a couple of weeks.  When the music stops and they all rush for a seat, the biggest sociopaths will suffer the worst when they find there isn't one, so they are driven to even greater heights of misbehaviour now to make sure of a seat later.

Capisce?

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## Corky Smeek

Hmm, a somewhat cynical standpoint.  I'm sure there are some honest, straightforward, caring, principled politicians out there somewhere. 

I was, however, talking about just one person (on here) practicing deceit.  Perhaps you know more than I do about that person. Do they actually represent a political party in any official capacity? If they do, that would at least provide an explanation for their actions, if not an excuse.

Comprendez?

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## orkneycadian

> That's a really a sad figure. Didn't know that. Could you name all these SNP candidates who have had support withdrawn from the Party, due to allegations of Antisemitism? I'm really interested.


https://lmgtfy.com/?q=snp+candidate+suspended

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## BrianW

Corbyn..
https://order-order.com/2017/06/08/1...ed-terrorists/
I'd rather vote Thatcher back from the grave!

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## Shabbychic

> I think the Labour party can now rest easy, given that the proportion of SNP election candidates who have had their parties support withdrawn due to allegations of anti Semitism is nearly 11 times higher. 
> 
> Labour would need to withdraw support from another 10 election candidates to match the SNP. Not impossible, but rather unlikely.
> 
> Originally Posted by *Shabbychic* 
> _That's a really sad figure. Didn't know that. Could you name all these SNP candidates who have had support withdrawn from the Party, due to allegations of Antisemitism? I'm really interested._
> 
> YOUR ANSWER:-
> 
> https://lmgtfy.com/?q=snp+candidate+suspended



Oh no, don't you cop out now. You made the above outrageous accusation, then when I query it, you tell me to google it. I don't have the time or inclination to google about in your fantasies. (shudder the thought) No, you made the statement, so you name the names of all these SNP election candidates who have had the Party support withdrawn due to allegations of Antisemitism. According to your estimations that would be about 11 candidates?

You talk the talk, now walk the walk!

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## orkneycadian

Well I think even Diane Abbott could work that one out. SNP have lost 1 candidate out of 59 due to anti Semetism allegations. 1.7%  Labour have lost 1 candidate out of 631 due to similar allegations.  0.16%

1.7 is almost 11 times higher than 0.16. Or it was when I was at school. I understand that after 10 years of SNP government, literacy and numeracy rates are somewhat lower.  But then, that's the same SNP who have claimed, and will claim, that a mere 40% of the share of the vote constitutes a "mandate".

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## Corky Smeek

It is interesting to note that only 37.5% of the UK electorate voted to leave the EU yet the Tory Government is using this as a mandate to commit national suicide.

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## aqua

> Shabbychic, you don't sound like a person who watched Andrew Neil comprehensively gut Jeremy Corbyn in his interview last evening, on the subject of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party - and that's both the Parliamentary party and the organisation.  All socialist administrations need a scapegoat to distract the hoi polloi's gaze from their governmental failings and the Jews are usually convenient.  Look also at the people Corbyn associates with.
> 
> And please don't start about right-wing BBC bias.  It'd be a first, were it to happen.


I watched Neil and Corbyn. 

I cant stand Corbyn either, but Neils constant interruptions and childish questioning were so annoying, and Corbyns responses were better than I expected, so I ended up more supportive of Corbyn than ever before!

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## orkneycadian

Can this really get any worse for the SNP?

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...anti-semitism/

*New SNP resignation over alleged anti-Semitism*Not an election candidate, but much worse, part of the *Conduct Committee*

Starting to make Jeremy Corbyn look quite angelic.

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## orkneycadian

So really, is there any hope at all for the SNP?  Even the Conduct Committee cannot be trusted to exhibit good conduct.  Rotten to the core.

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## orkneycadian

> So really, is there any hope at all for the SNP?  Even the Conduct Committee cannot be trusted to exhibit good conduct.  Rotten to the core.


And now the electorate are realising that;

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...ence-8cvg8jqfd

*Poll reveals sharp fall in support for Scottish independence*56% No, 44% yes.

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## Corky Smeek

The last couple of days:-

The Lib Dems - dodgy to the core.

£334,000 in donations from pharmaceutical companies who market puberty blockers. Goes a long way to explain the party's stance on gender reassignment. https://twitter.com/JeanHatchet/stat...01925777346561


The Tories - heartless to the core

Conservative candidate, Sally Anne Heart says disabled people don't understand money so should be paid less. https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/06/tory-...oney-11280594/. The nasty part of the Tory party is never far below the surface.

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## Corky Smeek

And just when you thought the Tories couldn't get any nastier........

https://twitter.com/i/status/1203312744285560834

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## Bystander1

Calm down now Porky, surely the Scottish Nasty Party are in no position to call anyone else nasty.

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## Corky Smeek

> Calm down now Porky, surely the Scottish Nasty Party are in no position to call anyone else nasty.


When the Lib Dems are doing things like this I'll never calm down - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...15d437d17d3981

Also, I don't speak for the SNP; so they are not calling anyone else "nasty". I am.

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## orkneycadian

> Calm down now Porky, surely the Scottish Nasty Party are in no position to call anyone else nasty.


Seems that they are even realising themselves that their sole pursuit of independence is harming their election prospects;

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...or-snp-member/

*General election 2019: 'Incoherent' campaign harming SNP and helping Tories, says senior SNP member*

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## Corky Smeek

Former Labour MSP Malcolm Chisholm seems to have a clear insight into matters.

https://twitter.com/MalcolmChishol1/...35881039077376

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## Bystander1

a "former MSP", in other words a failed cooncillor. You are scraping the bottom of the barrel Porky, quoting this nonentity.

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## Corky Smeek

> a "former MSP", in other words a failed cooncillor. You are scraping the bottom of the barrel Porky, quoting this nonentity.


Always the same. No arguments to put because you've got none, so attack the messenger.

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## mi16

> Always the same. No arguments to put because you've got none, so attack the messenger.


Pot kettle

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## aqua

Richard WhoHes Scottish Labour Party won 18.6% of the vote and a single seat in last weeks general election. Why hasnt he resigned? Is is because no-one knows who he is?

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## orkneycadian

No point in knee jerk resignations at the moment - Its not as if there are any elections immediately up and coming.

I guess that Scottish Labour suffered badly due to national decisions (or indecisions as the case may be);

*Failing to deal with the anti-semetism
*Having Jeremy Corbyn as leader
*Having Diane Abbott in charge of sums
*Failing to adopt a definitive Brexit policy

None of which are really Richard Leonard's fault.  Just what he inherited from above.

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## aqua

WhoHe is a Corbynista. Hes hopeless. That makes it his fault.

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## orkneycadian

Yes, thats true indeed.  Oh well, they have plenty of time to regroup, rethink and re-invent themselves before the next election.

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## richardj

They had better get rid of the current Scottish Labour leader - not impressed. The next elections are not that far away, the Scottish ones I mean. If Scottish Labour do not recover in 2021 then they may as well pack up and join the Lib Dems.

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## aqua

Diane Abbott can ask her fellow shadow front bencher Dawn Butler to help her with sums. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wCwFLUt6zgE

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## Fulmar

56% of young voters aged under 30 voted Labour. That, among many reasons, is why Labour matters and it achieved that result under Jeremy Corbyn!

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## aqua

But not in Scotland. The total Labour vote was 18.6% in Scotland. I don’t have an age breakdown. Their only MP detests Corbyn, and maybe detests WhoHe for all I know.

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## Gronnuck

The only way the Labour movement can rise again in Scotland is after independence if it can show it really embraces independence and has no connection whatsoever with the Unionist Labour party registered in London.  We have to have an alternative to the SNP in a free and independent Scotland.

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## Corky Smeek

I see the Labour Party leadership candidates are still peddling the myth that they can't win (at Westminster) without success in Scotland.  It would appear that they don't know how deep a hole they are in. Even if they had won every seat in Scotland -  all 59 of them - they would still have lost GE2019.  The truth is they can't win even with success in Scotland.

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## Fulmar

I don't think we can or should write Labour off in the way you are suggesting as none of us have a crystal ball. I personally hope that Labour will once again become a credible party under new leadership. I have seen governments of both kinds several times in the course of my lifetime and hope to do so again south of the border, irrespective of what happens in Scotland.

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## orkneycadian

Already, their future is looking slightly more hopeful;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51607512

*Diane Abbott to stand down from shadow cabinet under new Labour leadership*

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## orkneycadian

> Can this really get any worse for the SNP?
> 
> https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...anti-semitism/
> 
> *New SNP resignation over alleged anti-Semitism*Not an election candidate, but much worse, part of the *Conduct Committee*
> 
> Starting to make Jeremy Corbyn look quite angelic.


Absolutely despicable that the SNP are signing up an openly anti Semitic MP just to swell their numbers in Westminster.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-51723096

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## Corky Smeek

Absolutely despicable that Orkneycadian seeks tries to occupy the moral high ground on any issue at all given his gutter level views on just about any topic you care to mention.

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## aqua

> Absolutely despicable that the SNP are signing up an openly anti Semitic MP just to swell their numbers in Westminster.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-51723096


That spurtle of yours must be reaching the end of its life, its been stirring continuously for months. Have you considered replacing it with a more subtle model?

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## orkneycadian

Indeed I have - Sometimes I even go off here for years at a time.  Then, all thats posted is "Why is the org so boring these days" or "does anyone know when Tesco is open?"  So I get persuaded to come back again for a bit of "spurtle stirring".  But like stirring a pot of very very thick porridge, it is hard going.

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## aqua

The forum has become livelier in recent months, thanks in no small part to your stirring posts.

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## aqua

I was involved in a discussion about Scottish Labour and their leader last week. Not one of the five of us could remember Richard WhoHe’s surname!  In fact, it escapes me at this very moment.

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## orkneycadian

One of the points of Labour seems to be to criticise the budget, whatever it contains. Interesting to hear that argumentative Gary Robertson on Radio Scotland telling a Labour Minister that the budget delivers everything that Labour said it should.  But that still, in Labours view, it's a bad budget.

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## Fulmar

That is what the opposition does, in case you have not noticed. Fact is, the masses of money now being poured in does not redress 10 years of Tory austerity and utter misery in towns and cities throughout the UK, especially south of the border. That needs to be said and pointed out and the SNP were saying it loud and clear yesterday as well. The most glaring deficiency is now in the NHS just at  time when we need it most- thousands of vacancies and no one to fill them, beds that have been cut and a service that has been at breaking point for goodness knows how long.

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## aqua

Could we bring in some Chinese builders to construct a few new hospitals in super quick time?

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## aqua

The results of the elections for Leader and Deputy Leader of the UK Labour Party are due to be announced a week tomorrow. According to the bookies, Keir Starmer is close to a dead cert for Leader, and Angela Rayner is odds-on favourite for Deputy Leader. Is this a balanced team? I think so. 

How will the change affect Richard WhoHe? Could it be the beginning of the end for him? I hope so.

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## aqua

As universally predicted, Keir Starmer and Angela Rayner won their respective ballots. And Jackie Baillie is deputy leader in Scotland. Does that leave Richard WhoHe out on a limb, or can he work with the new team? I’m not optimistic that he has the ability.

I wonder if the 2021 Holyrood elections will need to be postponed?

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## aqua

Richard WhoHe’s Labour Party continues to reach new lows in opinion polling for the 2021 Holyrood election.  I suppose he’ll go after his party plumbs new depths in the election. 

Ross the ref from the Tories is more interesting. He’ll also get his erse kicked in the election, but he may survive as he’s not a ‘proper’ upper class twit. I have a vision of oddquine mothering him.  :Smile:

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## Oddquine

> Ross the ref from the Tories is more interesting. He’ll also get his erse kicked in the election, but he may survive as he’s not a ‘proper’ upper class twit. I have a vision of oddquine mothering him.


 Seems to me just being any class of a twit should amply qualify him for being a Tory MP or MSP.   Not likely to get his erse kicked, though...afaik, he's not standing here in the constituency.....I suspect he'll top the Tory list for Highlands and Islands as he did in 2016....and get elected.    
Oddquine smothering him would be much more appropriate!    ::

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## aqua

Ah yes I think youre right, Ross the Ref wont get a personal boot up his erse as hes not standing on his own two feet at the election. But his party will surely lose a few seats unless they can benefit from a second wave of disgruntled left leaning unionist voters deserting Richard Whohes soporific sinking socialists. 

Hell need someone to give him a hug when his party loses some seats. Even a callous Aqua wouldnt want him to cry alone in public.

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## orkneycadian

Who WhoHe?

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## aqua

Who WhoHe indeed. With Labour averaging 16% in the 10 most recent opinion polls for next years Holyrood elections, party members need to get rid of him asap. Thats assuming they can remember his name.  :Smile:

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## Fulmar

Richard Leonard. I wonder if I'm the only person who does not have trouble remembering his name and who he is. He's in bother for a crass tweet right now, isn't he, to add to his troubles.

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## ecb

There are some articles about the decline of the Labour Party in Scotland in the links below:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/opini...ty---obituary/

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...-class-people/

Could they not try and get Gordon Brown to stand as a candidate in the Scoittish Parliament elections next year MSP?  He is a well known and experienced politician.

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## aqua

I dont think Gordon Brown will rejoin active politics. Scottish Labour needs a new generation of good politicians rather than a rehash of those whove had their day. Goodness knows when these people will emerge, if ever.

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