# General > Politics >  SNP government go three monkeys on fraud

## Recycle it

Shame on the Scottish SNP government for going down the Three monkeys route on fraud. I just read an report on how companies of all kinds have been reported to the government under the whistle blowers scheme . Only to be told ' don't contact us or your MSP ' as its not our business, even though it's on their wed site . If you know of a organisation that receives grants or its legal remit from government that has breached or broken the rules contact us directly ,with email address and numbers. That where the help stops, the SNP are blind ,deaf and dumb when it comes to standing up for the people of Scotland and doing what's right and legal. Tartan Tories Spring to mind.

----------


## Hoggie

Well, perhaps Snoopy doesn't want to get involved in the real business of government, only the politics.    Corporate law is not a Holyrood matter, but plain criminal law is.  If they don't think that enforcing criminal law is worth their time, could they put a grown-up party in charge?

----------


## Oddquine

> Shame on the Scottish SNP government for going down the Three monkeys route on fraud. I just read an report on how companies of all kinds have been reported to the government under the whistle blowers scheme . Only to be told ' don't contact us or your MSP ' as its not our business, even though it's on their wed site . If you know of a organisation that receives grants or its legal remit from government that has breached or broken the rules contact us directly ,with email address and numbers. That where the help stops, the SNP are blind ,deaf and dumb when it comes to standing up for the people of Scotland and doing what's right and legal. Tartan Tories Spring to mind.


A link to the report on which you read the quote would be useful in terms of initiating a discussion......otherwise the post just reads like another SNPBAD opinion piece.  (I'm assuming you are not referring to SAWA which was under investigation by the OSCR in February past.)

----------


## rob murray

> A link to the report on which you read the quote would be useful in terms of initiating a discussion......otherwise the post just reads like another SNPBAD opinion piece.  (I'm assuming you are not referring to SAWA which was under investigation by the OSCR in February past.)


Agree with you up to a point, but the SNP do "bad" as well as all political parties dont they ? ( maybe not in this situation though )

----------


## rob murray

They, the SNP, also do crystal ball gazing very well, if comments made by a deputy leader contender of a post indy referendum / referendum on whether Scotland should keep the Queen / monarchy..arrogantly assuming 1) There will be indy 2. 2) Indy 2 will go their way 3) A free state Scotland will have a referendum and  reject the queen....hell o a lot of assumptions being made eh ? Like is there an appetite for indy 2, where are the plans ( currency, UK trade deals, managing the gap between non UK and EU membership ) for post rUK Scotland,  given article 50 on the immediate horizon when is indy2 to be held, oh and given stagnant home growth, the EU in financial turmoil and UK suffering post Brexit after shocks, what plans are in place to manage and protect the economy, all details and information we should know, but only hear nonsensical crap like post indy referendums on the monarchy

----------


## Oddquine

> They, the SNP, also do crystal ball gazing very well, if comments made by a deputy leader contender of a post indy referendum / referendum on whether Scotland should keep the Queen / monarchy..arrogantly assuming 1) There will be indy 2. 2) Indy 2 will go their way 3) A free state Scotland will have a referendum and  reject the queen....hell o a lot of assumptions being made eh ? Like is there an appetite for indy 2, where are the plans ( currency, UK trade deals, managing the gap between non UK and EU membership ) for post rUK Scotland,  given article 50 on the immediate horizon when is indy2 to be held, oh and given stagnant home growth, the EU in financial turmoil and UK suffering post Brexit after shocks, what plans are in place to manage and protect the economy, all details and information we should know, but only hear nonsensical crap like post indy referendums on the monarchy


As all elections have shown, both for governments and party positions, that means making promises they can't (or don't intend) keep in order to get support....and they all talk as if they are bound to win. No politician ever says "if", they always say "when"..and if you heard all the candidates' speeches, they all have crystal balls. By the way an, as yet unelected, deputy leader  is NOT "the SNP", any more than Alex Salmond was, or Nicola is.  They are simply candidates for the deputy leadership and will be only one voice however much they try to puff themselves up.

 I rather think there will be another indyref... because I can't see any way for Brexit to take place without Scotland brexiting as well, no matter how many talks May has trying to put off the day she has to initiate Article 50.  

It'll be after Article 50 is initiated and before the end of the two year time frame, I should think......and won't likely be two years long this time....but I suppose that will depend on the polls over the piece. There is certainly an appetite for indy2 among the pro-indy people...it hasn't really gone away..and it was in the SNP manifesto, so everybody knew it was possibly coming after the Brexit vote....it isn't the SNP's fault that England and Wales voted for Brexit.

Re a monarchy referendum....after indy, at some stage, there will be a  political party with one in its manifesto. it isn't any great priority in the scheme of things now any more than it was last time, however much deputy leadership candidates posture. 

The currency situation is already being looked at afaik, because of the foot-stamping by Westminster last time. 

Re trade deals with England...who cares? If we lose jobs because rUK won't trade with us, then the other side of the coin is that they will lose jobs if we don't trade with them.  It would actually help rUK's balance of trade to trade with us once we are independent, given we import more from them than we export to them (given the oil and gas isn't counted).....because England, of the four home nations, is the only one which imports more than it exports (even with the oil and gas).  

I'm sure the SNP has plans for coping with stagnant home growth, the EU in financial turmoil and UK suffering post Brexit after shocks, which is more, as far as I can see than Westminster does. We'll both have to wait and see how they both manage the problems wished upon us...because what the SNP does rather depends on what policies Westminster puts in place first, doesn't it?

----------


## bekisman

Was watching PMQ’s a while back and wondered what Robertson - that SNP minority government MP-was twittering about “Sigmar Gabriel said Scotland could remain in the EU” He forgot to mention that they have to go through yet another Independence kerfuffle first.. oh yea, Sigmar said that Scotland could join the EU on a majority, so Spain’s veto could be ignored.. Are they real? most countries in the EU have separatist movements: at least 20 of ‘em and they ALL have the Veto    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ents_in_Europe . 



So possible scenario: Mrs Murrell asks Mss Brasier (opps mean Mss Sturgeon asks Mrs May) for yet another Independence Referendum. Well it’s pretty dam obvious to even a dimwit that during this very convoluted Brexit negotiations, any request would be put on hold, i.e.what does the UK Trade negotiating team do with talks with these great many countries “Sorry but we’re not sure if Scotland will be a part of any trade deal”? eh?, nah, any referendum will be delayed until all the negotiation is over and the UK has a single market deal with the EU and free-trade deals with rest of the World. AND in the meantime Fox and Davis will have negotiated an excellent deal (for example) the Scottish Fishing Industry  Restrictions imposed under the Common Fisheries Policy see Stolen Seas (http://www.efddgroup.eu/images/publications/Stolen_Seas.pdf ) Forget the mention of Farage the ‘guts’ of this PDF make interesting historical reading.. Scrabster, Fraserburgh, Kinlochbervie, Lochinver, Ullapool, Peterhead, Aberdeen etc  will have their fishing rights restored after the devastation of the Fishing Fleet. Note: ‘Historically, British waters would have extended 200 nautical miles from  the coastline but this exclusive economic zone is now restricted to 12  miles. The rest of the British waters are now part of the European  economic zone which can be fished by any European nation subject to  quotas and licenses.’. 
Now, ask the Scottish voters who overwhelmingly voted ‘NO’ the last time to vote yes and leave the UK and all the trade deals that exist between the UK and the EU and the big new world. will be void There would be no trade deals with UK OR the EU, no chance of using Sterling as currency. (Presuming  all countries did approve membership, Scotland would  be "legally obliged" to join the euro if it met the correct economic  conditions) - Hmm when each of us was promised £thousands by Salmond re Oil, and we voted against, what fool would now vote ‘Yes’ - Only those who’s sole aim, no matter what the consequences, and what then?


Oh yes incidentally Vice Chancellor  Sigmar Gabriel,  the country’s top TTIP negotiator, has openly criticised the lack of  progress in talks recently, while senior members of his center-left SPD  declared last week that the deal is dead. Oh dear! 

The jobless rate is now 5.5%, compared with 4.9% for the whole of the UK.  On an annual basis, Scotland's economy grew by 0.6%, compared with UK growth of 2%.

----------


## rob murray

> As all elections have shown, both for governments and party positions, that means making promises they can't (or don't intend) keep in order to get support....and they all talk as if they are bound to win. No politician ever says "if", they always say "when"..and if you heard all the candidates' speeches, they all have crystal balls. By the way an, as yet unelected, deputy leader  is NOT "the SNP", any more than Alex Salmond was, or Nicola is.  They are simply candidates for the deputy leadership and will be only one voice however much they try to puff themselves up.
> 
>  I rather think there will be another indyref... because I can't see any way for Brexit to take place without Scotland brexiting as well, no matter how many talks May has trying to put off the day she has to initiate Article 50.  
> 
> It'll be after Article 50 is initiated and before the end of the two year time frame, I should think......and won't likely be two years long this time....but I suppose that will depend on the polls over the piece. There is certainly an appetite for indy2 among the pro-indy people...it hasn't really gone away..and it was in the SNP manifesto, so everybody knew it was possibly coming after the Brexit vote....it isn't the SNP's fault that England and Wales voted for Brexit.
> 
> Re a monarchy referendum....after indy, at some stage, there will be a  political party with one in its manifesto. it isn't any great priority in the scheme of things now any more than it was last time, however much deputy leadership candidates posture. 
> 
> 
> ...


Largely agree with you well written ! and I also agree with Bekisman's key points, indy2 is not in the gift of the Scottish government, Westminster has to sanction it and as Bekisman puts it, they will have  enough on their plate creating a favourable post BREXIT economic framework ( we all accept that no plan was in place as the powers thought that the vote would be to remain so literally starting from scratch on this one  )  without dealing with the scottish situation. So I would see no indy2 granted until Westminster gets its post brexit act together, a point you rightly make ie what the scottish government does will be determined by what westminster has in place , that may take a couple of years maybe sooner, but indy2  certainly wont be granted / timed to best suit Scotland. Meanwhile I dont share your optimism on SNP plans for stagnant growth, their track record isn't great in economic planning and face it their number 1 priority is to obtain independence which impacts upon the time needed for sound economic management of the country. A proven stagnant economy will be further hit as, whether we like it or not, we are still part of the UK which itself is facing a good degree of immediate economic turmoil, which will also and is impacting upon Scotland, hence indy2 will, if held within next 2/3 years, be progressed within a background of poor economic performance, hardly the best time to hold another indy vote. When it come to it, as Bekisman rightly points out EU conditions would involve Scotland using the euro no opt out, and again against a back ground of crisis surrounding the Eur,o also factor in the role of European Central bank etc which if we were in the EU would really police policy and spending. Would people want that ? Independence in name only, using a currency in crisis and being part of an EU model that is, post BREXIT fraught with inherent critical issues, facing a future of structural change ? Post BREXIT world has seen  things get rather messy dont you think ?

----------


## rob murray

> Largely agree with you well written ! and I also agree with Bekisman's key points, indy2 is not in the gift of the Scottish government, Westminster has to sanction it and as Bekisman puts it, they will have  enough on their plate creating a favourable post BREXIT economic framework ( we all accept that no plan was in place as the powers thought that the vote would be to remain so literally starting from scratch on this one  )  without dealing with the scottish situation. So I would see no indy2 granted until Westminster gets its post brexit act together, a point you rightly make ie what the scottish government does will be determined by what westminster has in place , that may take a couple of years maybe sooner, but indy2  certainly wont be granted / timed to best suit Scotland. Meanwhile I dont share your optimism on SNP plans for stagnant growth, their track record isn't great in economic planning and face it their number 1 priority is to obtain independence which impacts upon the time needed for sound economic management of the country. A proven stagnant economy will be further hit as, whether we like it or not, we are still part of the UK which itself is facing a good degree of immediate economic turmoil, which will also and is impacting upon Scotland, hence indy2 will, if held within next 2/3 years, be progressed within a background of poor economic performance, hardly the best time to hold another indy vote. When it come to it, as Bekisman rightly points out EU conditions would involve Scotland using the euro no opt out, and again against a back ground of crisis surrounding the Eur,o also factor in the role of European Central bank etc which if we were in the EU would really police policy and spending. Would people want that ? Independence in name only, using a currency in crisis and being part of an EU model that is, post BREXIT fraught with inherent critical issues, facing a future of structural change ? Post BREXIT world has seen  things get rather messy dont you think ?


Whenever, what it will all come down to is... Whats more important and of more benefit to the people of Scotland, remain in post BREXIT UK or be indy within the confines of the EU. Such a momentous decision requires everyone involved to learn lessons from the UK EU referendum, tell the truth, deal with the facts provide voters with accurate information as if indy2 is called we will face the biggest decision ever.

----------


## rob murray

> Was watching PMQ’s a while back and wondered what Robertson - that SNP minority government MP-was twittering about “Sigmar Gabriel said Scotland could remain in the EU” He forgot to mention that they have to go through yet another Independence kerfuffle first.. oh yea, Sigmar said that Scotland could join the EU on a majority, so Spain’s veto could be ignored.. Are they real? most countries in the EU have separatist movements: at least 20 of ‘em and they ALL have the Veto    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ents_in_Europe . 
> 
> 
> 
> So possible scenario: Mrs Murrell asks Mss Brasier (opps mean Mss Sturgeon asks Mrs May) for yet another Independence Referendum. Well it’s pretty dam obvious to even a dimwit that during this very convoluted Brexit negotiations, any request would be put on hold, i.e.what does the UK Trade negotiating team do with talks with these great many countries “Sorry but we’re not sure if Scotland will be a part of any trade deal”? eh?, nah, any referendum will be delayed until all the negotiation is over and the UK has a single market deal with the EU and free-trade deals with rest of the World. AND in the meantime Fox and Davis will have negotiated an excellent deal (for example) the Scottish Fishing Industry  Restrictions imposed under the Common Fisheries Policy see Stolen Seas (http://www.efddgroup.eu/images/publications/Stolen_Seas.pdf ) Forget the mention of Farage the ‘guts’ of this PDF make interesting historical reading.. Scrabster, Fraserburgh, Kinlochbervie, Lochinver, Ullapool, Peterhead, Aberdeen etc  will have their fishing rights restored after the devastation of the Fishing Fleet. Note: ‘Historically, British waters would have extended 200 nautical miles from  the coastline but this exclusive economic zone is now restricted to 12  miles. The rest of the British waters are now part of the European  economic zone which can be fished by any European nation subject to  quotas and licenses.’. 
> Now, ask the Scottish voters who overwhelmingly voted ‘NO’ the last time to vote yes and leave the UK and all the trade deals that exist between the UK and the EU and the big new world. will be void There would be no trade deals with UK OR the EU, no chance of using Sterling as currency. (Presuming  all countries did approve membership, Scotland would  be "legally obliged" to join the euro if it met the correct economic  conditions) - Hmm when each of us was promised £thousands by Salmond re Oil, and we voted against, what fool would now vote ‘Yes’ - Only those who’s sole aim, no matter what the consequences, and what then?
> 
> 
> Oh yes incidentally Vice Chancellor  Sigmar Gabriel,  the country’s top TTIP negotiator, has openly criticised the lack of  progress in talks recently, while senior members of his center-left SPD  declared last week that the deal is dead. Oh dear! 
> ...


Raising interesting points that will only intensify going forward

----------


## theone

> Whenever, what it will all come down to is... Whats more important and of more benefit to the people of Scotland, remain in post BREXIT UK or be indy within the confines of the EU.


Or the 3rd scenario, be independent OUTWITH the EU.................

----------


## rob murray

> Or the 3rd scenario, be independent OUTWITH the EU.................


Sorry I dont follow your logic, you mean be like Norway, cant see how we can escape some EU entanglement ? Also the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands – crown dependencies – are not members of the EU, but a great deal of EU law applies to them. In any case SNP case for indy2 is based on continued Scottish membership of EU so yes in theory youve a point but in reality independence outwith EU is not an option, as it stands

----------


## theone

> Sorry I dont follow your logic, you mean be like Norway, cant see how we can escape some EU entanglement ?


My point was that you gave 2 options post Brexit - Scotland stays in the UK or Scotland goes independent in the EU.

I think there's a 3rd option, and is in fact quite likely - Scotland leaving the UK then not being allowed to join the EU.

----------


## rob murray

> My point was that you gave 2 options post Brexit - Scotland stays in the UK or Scotland goes independent in the EU.
> 
> I think there's a 3rd option, and is in fact quite likely - Scotland leaving the UK then not being allowed to join the EU.


Thanks for clarifying, surely thats what makes indy2 so damn dangerous, and logically I agree as if scotland votes to leave UK then it will take time before we ( that is if, as you put it ) can get into EU. Despite propaganda claims, there can be no smooth process ie exit UK on Friday and into EU on the following Monday, a fast track nah never in a month of sundays. We go through the process and wait like everyone else. SO yep an unintentional third scenario will be scotland leaving the UK and being in no mans land until they get EU membership and of courses if that doesnt happen then yes out of UK and out of EU.

----------


## rob murray

According to news and Kenny Macaskill, the next case for independence may have to be more open about the need for spending cuts or tax rises for a new Scottish state to live within its means. ( no free lunches and freebies ) The issue of currency is also under review after the prospect of a sterling union with the rest of the UK was rejected the UK Government last time and faced widespread criticism.

----------


## tonkatojo

> Thanks for clarifying, surely thats what makes indy2 so damn dangerous, and logically I agree as if scotland votes to leave UK then it will take time before we ( that is if, as you put it ) can get into EU. Despite propaganda claims, there can be no smooth process ie exit UK on Friday and into EU on the following Monday, a fast track nah never in a month of sundays. We go through the process and wait like everyone else. SO yep an unintentional third scenario will be scotland leaving the UK and being in no mans land until they get EU membership and of courses if that doesnt happen then yes out of UK and out of EU.


Why does no one ever advocate for Scotland to stand on its own 2 feet without the UK or EU, that includes the SNP ?. Instead of hanging off of their coattails, or is the reason too obvious.

----------


## Westward

> Why does no one ever advocate for Scotland to stand on its own 2 feet without the UK or EU, that includes the SNP ?. Instead of hanging off of their coattails, or is the reason too obvious.


Well said! I voted for brexit..nothing to do with the EU..or the UK  more to do with Independence..for as far as I am concerned, independence should mean just that.

----------


## rob murray

> Why does no one ever advocate for Scotland to stand on its own 2 feet without the UK or EU, that includes the SNP ?. Instead of hanging off of their coattails, or is the reason too obvious.


Cant really think of an obvious reason : I suppose if New Zealand is not part of EU and stands alone, maybe Scotland can stand alone to

----------


## Recycle it

Well just got word that the SNP will not be taking the matter any farther ,when is a £5 million fraud by a government controlled and regulated body of NO interest . Yet another criminal offence goes unchecked and the tax payer picks up the bill. The SNP are in control of nothing and the crooks fill their pockets with the money of the hard worked. Shame on you Nicola Sturgeon ,you've joined the ranks of the weasel mouthed tartan Tories

----------


## rob murray

> Well just got word that the SNP will not be taking the matter any farther ,when is a £5 million fraud by a government controlled and regulated body of NO interest . Yet another criminal offence goes unchecked and the tax payer picks up the bill. The SNP are in control of nothing and the crooks fill their pockets with the money of the hard worked. Shame on you Nicola Sturgeon ,you've joined the ranks of the weasel mouthed tartan Tories


Where did you see that ? wheres the source out of interest

----------


## Recycle it

> Where did you see that ? wheres the source out of interest


Called as a Witness .

----------

