# General > Politics >  Surrender monkey Tories give the big two fingers to the Unionist

## dozy

NO surrender ,"NEVER, NEVER ,NEVER was the rally call from the unionist party .Well the DUP can bury that slogan once and for all . Yet again they have  stabbed in the back by their Tory masters and ain't it just great to see . The tories are the party without friends ,just happy to have us all in servitude .  When you have polititions that cant speak the truth and have to rewrite history in their words . When did we allow the country to become an dictatorship ,didn't see that on any referendum slip . Theresa May wants us all to buy her ticket on the Titanic after its sunk .  Irish EU passport anyone or maybe a Scottish EU one .

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## B0wer

Any MP that votes contrary to what their constituency voted in the referendum should be tried for treason.

I may have voted leave but I am proud that my MP is sticking up for remain because that's what this constituency voted for. All these English and Welsh MP's who are sticking their fingers in their ears shouting "I can't hear you " to their leave voting constituencies are a disgrace. This is a democracy and wether you like the outcome of a vote or not the MAJORITY of the PEOPLE rules not PM and HER pet project you little oiks shut up and do as you are told.

Caithness could always blow up the mountain pass and rejoin Norway......... a little sabotage at Berridale should do it.....

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## dozy

Ain't it a right slap in the face when the people you voted into a position of power tell you " now ,now know your place ,get back in your box and shut up ,the big boys want to play  you peasant ". Unionist will never learn that they have not jointed the group ,their servants not masters.  The rich are told this from the cradle and the rest make sure it stays that way . Its great to see that unionist are now being treated the same way as the Scottish independence group . Servitude is a terrible thing ,just a pity you didn't get it before the Scottish vote . It's sad to be fooled once ,but your a Lunitic to keep helping the same rotten to the core master you thought were your friends. Choose a brighter ,braver future where you choice can make a difference . It's easier to be heard when you stand up in Scotland than 60 million English voices all shouting " me first" . I have never liked slap dogs and have the pride never to be one , can others say the same. The scots have never asked for the world ,just a choice and to do what's right for you and your children. 
Independence should never makes us enemies , just friends that meet on a level playing field. A friendship that should start with a smile and a handshake and end every day the same way. RESPECT.

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## B0wer

In a perfect world dozy I'd love a federalised UK. But I don't trust the SNP or any of the other Scottish parties to actually be able to run an autonomous state never mind an Independant one. Just look at the lack of progress made since devolution. All these devolved powers and what is Hollyrood doing? Centralising everything. They should be rewriting the way Scotland's run and proving they are capable of running it independently rather than wasting their time shouting Indy 2 and hoarding their resources in the cities where they can buy the most votes.  They have had their once in a generation vote now lets use the rest of this time constructively. If we do who knows maybe the next generation will vote differently????

Democracy is dead. I long ago gave up on voting _for_ anybody because they all disgust me. I decide who I least want in power and then vote for the party best able to keep them out. I've spoilt my ballot paper once or twice too. Because they have to count the spoilt ones. If you don't get off your backside to vote they assume you are happy what ever the outcome.

The trouble is power corupts. The Brexit debarcle has proven democracy is dead. What we need is to move to a Sortition. No parties so no more party politics, no more "I can say anything to get in an make a quick buck".

Sortition:- Where ministers of goverment are chosen at random from a specific pool of candidates and serve for a set term. Ie. The minister of agriculture is chosen from people currently or previously employed in farming. Minister of defence from members or veterans of the armed forces, Education from teachers ............

It has the added bonus that the people making decisions about laws affecting any particular section of the economy will actually understand how it works!

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## dozy

Trust, Truth and Honesty and all words that you could never use anywhere near a politician .If you happen to add in the Tories you would be better with words like Lies ,corruption and abuser and many more . We all know that Westminster are rotten but if we still vote for them ,that tells more about ourselves than of them .  I would prefer to make that choice in an independent country ,than in one that tips its hat to Westminster masters . It's time to grow up ,stop listening to the lies and fearmongers . England what's to be free from Europe and that's fine but the rest of us vote to stay . Many women stood up for the right to Choose and say No , Theresa May has turned back the clock by stating " if I don't like what your saying ,I don't have to listen and The word NO is never the end of it " . So we have a government where No never means NO and STAY never means STAY .  Theresa Mays GO means gods knows when ,all the lies and fear has now turned society against itself  and that's the Tories doing that started with project FEAR . We've had 9 years of the Tories and have gone from bad to worse and the media support their way forward . 
YES the SNP might not do better ,but for Christ sake they couldn't do worse if the Westminster handcuffs where off . Norway freed itself from Sweden and how did that go ,it all down to choice and choosing . Maybe time time to stand up and show Europe ( with all their faults) that Scotland is a country of equals and not servants to English masters.

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## Goodfellers

If the SNP want Scotland to be independant, great, but if they want to re-join the EU, then that's not true independance. 

SNP also talking about wanting a separate currency, not retaining Sterling. What's the point in that? IF the EU lets an independant Scotland join, then it will have to adopt the Euro. Will that affect my pension that I believe will still be paid by the UK government. Will it fluctuate based on the £ to Euro rate each month?

Try and get your SNP friends to keep Sterling and you may get more votes. I for one do not want to gamble my financial security.

There was a recent report on the BBC talking about the decline in oil usage due to more electric cars and moving away from plastics. The price of oil is predicted to fall massively in the coming years. It states that countries that rely on oil to maintain their economy will suffer as a result. Isn't the price of oil the  foundation of all the SNP's economic policies?

I think I will join BOwer and just spoil my next ballot paper. Democracy is dead.

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## aqua

> Any MP that votes contrary to what their constituency voted in the referendum should be tried for treason.


This is from the man who scolded me for not discussing Richard Wotsisnames policies properly.  :: 

That isnt how parliamentary democracy works old chap.

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## B0wer

But that is how democracy is supposed to work. The MP is meant to be the mouthpiece for his or her constituency. If their personal views are diametrically opposed to the wishes of their constituents then they are meant to abstain from voting. By voting in the opposite manner to the majority view of their constituency they are ignoring the process of democracy.

If we were to rule according to the will of the minority then women would be stripped of their rights to work, vote and gain education. Female genital mutilation would become standard practice and homosexuality would result in being stoned to death. Not to mention the regular lynch parties run by the white supreamest fingermen who would root out anyone who might vaguely be supporting _foreigners_. Or worse be somehow distantly_related_ to one.  

Before anyone starts sticking words in my mouth. I'm NOT saying that remain/leave is on the same magnitude. 

All I'm saying is the logic of rule by the loudest regardless of wether they are the majority or the minority can lead to some dark places. Democracy works (just) because as a collective mind the human species is (normally) self censoring.

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## B0wer

> This is from the man who scolded me for not discussing Richard Wotsisname’s policies properly. 
> 
> That isn’t how parliamentary democracy works old chap.


For all you know aqua I could be a polka-dot unicorn frog! Gender isn't binary anymore. Apparently there is ; male, female, trans male, trans female, intertrans, non binary, gender neutral, gender fluid, asexual, polygender (I looked that one up it's where your schizophrenic personality is a different gender to your main personality!) , hermaphrodite, intersex, androgynous, non conforming, gender queer and eunuch!

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## aqua

Oh dear, I thought you were one of the more enlightened and educated members.

You should learn what representative parliamentary democracy really is old girl.

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## B0wer

> Oh dear, I thought you were one of the more enlightened and educated members.
> 
> You should learn what representative parliamentary democracy really is old girl.


The UK is not a representative democracy.  

The UK is a parliamentary democracy. A system of democratic government in which *the ministers of the Executive Branch derive their legitimacy**from and are**accountable to a Legislature or parliament; the Executive and Legislative branches are interconnected*. It is a political system in which the *supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people* to represent them. 

The US is a representative democracy. A system where a small subset of people (representatives) are granted power to legislate/rule on the behalf of the parts of the populace they represent. This subset can be overruled by a single vote. (Presidential veto.)

I'll take the old but less of the girl (ribbit - neigh) call me "chum" or "it" if you must but I ain't admitting on here what may or may not lie in the underpants department! At least not on our second date aqua..... :-D

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## B0wer

That the politicians seem to have forgotten the difference between parliamentary democracy and representative democracy does not mean that it does not exist.

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## B0wer

ps. Im pulling your leg aqua, i don't actually believe there are that many genders I got that list from an equal opportunities form. B0wer is not one person, it is an account run by a family of people so B0wer is genderless or you could argue that as the single avatar of multiple voices B0wer is pollygender. :-)

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## aqua

The UK is a representative democracy. As are all western democracies I can think of.

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## dozy

> The UK is a representative democracy. As are all western democracies I can think of.


You must be taking the P ,with Westminster in charge it is and will always be a dictatorship . It's no longer the United Kingdom ,it's a divided people in servitude to its Thames side masters.  I see the black ops guys have been busy in NI.

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## dozy

The. 'Word' is that Theresa May had a meeting with Ruth Davidson to built on the LGBT vote on the back of what happened in NI . No such thing as concidence ,it's just building on a well constructed situation to further to project.

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## B0wer

> The UK is a representative democracy. As are all western democracies I can think of.


 'Fraid we aren't, at least not constitutionally. this link explains all the different types of democracy in bitesize chunks.  https://www.scienceabc.com/social-sc...iamentary.html

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## aqua

The UK is a representative parliamentary democracy. 

The article in your link is very poorly written and clearly not authoritative.

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## B0wer

*Ok aqua how about our own government for an authoritative source?

"Parliamentary democracy*The UK is a parliamentary democracy. This means that:

members of the government are also members of one of the two Houses of Parliament (the House of Commons and the House of Lords) – although there are rare exceptions to this rulegovernment is directly accountable to Parliament – not only on a day-to-day basis (through parliamentary questions and debates on policy) but also because it owes its existence to Parliament: the governing party is only in power because it holds a majority in the House of Commons, and at any time the government can be dismissed by the Commons through a vote of ‘no confidence’

Parliament: House of Commons and Lords

*Parliamentary sovereignty*The UK Parliament is a ‘sovereign parliament’ – this means that the legislative body has ‘absolute sovereignty’, in other words it is supreme to all other government institutions, including any executive or judicial bodies.
This stems from there being no single written constitution, and contrasts with notions of judicial review, where, if the legislature passes a law that infringes on any of the basic rights that people enjoy under their (written) constitution, it is possible for the courts to overturn it.
In the UK, it is still Parliament (and not the judges) that decides what the law is. Judges interpret the law, but they do not make the law."

https://webarchive.nationalarchives....rchy/DG_073438

Or how about kings coledge london ? " There is widespread agreement in the UK that political decisions should be made in a democratic way. But the term ‘democracy’ can mean different things to different people. In Britain, we often think of democracy in terms of representation. We have an elected parliament where we appoint MPs to make decisions on our behalf.
However, this type of representative democracy is very different from other democratic systems. In a direct democracy, important decisions are usually made directly by the people using referendums. In practice there is frequently a trade-off between these two different forms of democracy. What MPs in Westminster want may be very different from what the people support in a referendum." https://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/a-t...d-sovereignty/

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## aqua

Yes, the UK is a representative democracy. It’s a parliamentary representative democracy as is clearly explained in your last quote. It’s not a direct democracy.

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