# General > General >  NO I DON'T WANT A WINDFARM AT BORROWSTON, CAITHNESS

## Achreamieboy

This is an on-line petition against the proposed Borrowston windfarm.  If you are against this development, please add your name and home address as a reply below.

Thanks for your support

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## Achreamieboy

I object to the Borrowston development

David Craig, Amon-Sul, Achreamie, KW14 7YB

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## kevmacleod

I don't want the windmills    :Frown:  
Kevin Macleod
Glendower, Achreamie, Dounreay KW14 7YB

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## Mr P Cannop

Paul Cannop Royal Terrace Thurso

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## LesGall

I am against the Windfarm at Borrowston

Lesley Gallagher
Glendower
Achreamie
Dounreay  ::

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## Anonymous

I AM TOTALLY FOR A WINDFARM AT BORROWSTON

Niall Fernie
10 Battery Road
Wick
KW1 5HX

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## Achreamieboy

Can't U read?  Swearing is banned - and that's the biggest obscenity I've seen on this website.

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## Anonymous

Hmmm, can't I read?

Well I can certainly write, or at least I could write when I wrote the rules on swearing for this messageboard.  I'm all for wind power, onshore or offshore, its got to safer than nuclear power and cleaner than gas or coal.

Niall Fernie
WebMaster
Caithness.Org

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## 2little2late

I'm all for wind farms anywhere that is suitable.

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## dpw39

> I AM TOTALLY FOR A WINDFARM AT BORROWSTON
> 
> Niall Fernie
> 10 Battery Road
> Wick
> KW1 5HX


This brings to mind  ::

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## dpw39

> I AM TOTALLY FOR A WINDFARM AT BORROWSTON
> 
> Niall Fernie
> 10 Battery Road
> Wick
> KW1 5HX


This brings to mind  ::  Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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## 2little2late

Lets fill the whole county with wind farms

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## Colin Manson

> Originally Posted by Niall Fernie
> 
> I AM TOTALLY FOR A WINDFARM AT BORROWSTON
> 
> Niall Fernie
> 10 Battery Road
> Wick
> KW1 5HX
> 
> ...


Why? Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I don't see what rules have been broken. The rules cover abuse, swearing and general disruptive behaviour. Not opinions.

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## MadPict

Here ye go -
http://www.pagerpower.co.uk/AssLand.asp
Fill in the form and see if you'd be able to stick one in your back garden - go on I dare you!!!!

MadPict

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## Anonymous

Hmm let me see...

someone starts a petition on our site with which I dont agree...

rather than remove it, I post my opposition to it...

so I get slagged off for it???




> Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?


If you think I have been unfair in allowing a petition to run on this message board, taking up web space which we pay for, even when I dont agree with it, then please tell me what should have been my action.  Ignore it? remove it? agree with it (even when I dont)?

MP: I live in a flat, dont think one will fit in a window box...

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## MadPict

Seeing as you were so kind to give us all your address, I'm posting you one of them wee windmilly things that kiddies stick in their sandcastles and gardeners use to scare moles. It should fit in your window box!!

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## XR2

I have no problem with a windfarm at Borrowston.  Not much of a blot on the landscape considering that there is a Nuclear plant nearby!  At least a windmill can be removed fairly easily how long before the nuclear plant is a green field?

I would be interested to know if these people would object if the windfarm was say beside castletown?  Not there back yard so probably not!

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## Anonymous

I think that the windmills at Borrowstone will enhance an otherwise dreary and bleak landscape and will look better than the cheap kit houses that are polluting the locality.

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## dpw39

Why? Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I don't see what rules have been broken. The rules cover abuse, swearing and general disruptive behaviour. Not opinions.

As per the Oxford Dictionary, "*Moderator*" an arbitrator or mediator > a presiding officer.

To Moderate is 1. moderate views non-extreme, middle of the road, non-radical, non-reactionary etc.

eg: a moderator therefore "moderates", not one who has an opinion, and should not be freely expressed in their official context. As regards to rules, it applies more to moral expectations and standards.

 :Wink:   Ciao, Dave the Rave

Ps... and you where not being slagged off, you where being informed...

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## spittalpunks

Aye and there was folks in Neolithic times that no doubt objected to burial mounds and the like

Get a life and do something constructive    :Grin:  

Theres a reactor just doon the road at least whats in front of you is sustainable!!!!!!!

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## Colin Manson

> Why? Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I don't see what rules have been broken. The rules cover abuse, swearing and general disruptive behaviour. Not opinions.
> 
> As per the Oxford Dictionary, "*Moderator*" an arbitrator or mediator > a presiding officer.
> 
> To Moderate is 1. moderate views non-extreme, middle of the road, non-radical, non-reactionary etc.
> 
> eg: a moderator therefore "moderates", not one who has an opinion, and should not be freely expressed in their official context. As regards to rules, it applies more to moral expectations and standards.
> 
>   Ciao, Dave the Rave
> ...


What makes you think that his opinion was in an official context? I don't see any "This is an Official Caithness.org Opinion", all I see is a name and address of an individual. Moderators are here to make sure that the forums are suitable for everyone; they can use their accounts to post their personal opinions as individuals. People don't have to read the definition as per the Oxford Dictionary and they don't have to sign an official agreement. Your rules and expectations aren't the ones that count.

Colin Manson
Administrator

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## jjc

I don't understand why you all object to Niall voicing his opinion over this, is it really that he is the moderator, or is it simply that he his opinion is different to yours?  It strikes me that it is a lot easier for you to dismiss Niall's right to voice his opinion out of hand than it is to constructively put across your own case. 

Anyway... what's going on here?  Don't you people know you shouldn't put your actual addresses on message boards?  You never know what information people might be gathering for world domination...  ::

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## squidge

Shucks theres that book again jjc!!!  I am getting awful excited about its publication

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## jjc

What makes you think I haven't abandoned the book and started my own plan for world domination????   ::

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## Anonymous

At what point did my job title change to moderator?



> eg: a moderator therefore "moderates", not one who has an opinion, and should not be freely expressed in their official context. As regards to rules, it applies more to moral expectations and standards.


thats made up!!!  I cant find anywhere that states the definition of moderator as "not one who has an opinion"




> To Moderate is 1. moderate views non-extreme, middle of the road, non-radical, non-reactionary etc.


This is the definition of an adjective, not a verb...

As I understand it, a moderator is someone who takes the middle ground, and tries to reign in those on the extreme edges, or reacts to those on the extremes by allowing them to interact or not.

We have discussed and written down where our middle ground lies to show where we will take our stand should we choose to use our ability to moderate.  This ability allows us to remove anything from this forum that is too far away from the middle ground and allows us to try and prevent others from straying too far from the accepted norm by giving them pointers on their behaviour.

People who are given the abilty to moderate on forums like this are not granted these options in exchange for their right to voice their own opinions.  See the moderator of the Church Of Scotland for an example.

If I was logged on under another name and voiced the same opinion, would I have been attacked so?  Probably, but the argument would have had to stay on topic and would not have become a personal attack based on my position.

If you dont want to see windmills in Caithness, then fine, you're entitled to your opinion, and its not one that we feel is so outrageous that we have to moderate it in any way.  But see it from my point of view, here is an opinion that i disagree with, I think the pros outweigh the cons and therefore would support any action to bring more wind farms to Caithness.  Again an opinion thats not so outrageous that it needs to be moderated.

Forums like this are not the place for petitons as you will always have someone willing to voice an opposite view and you dont always have the ability to prevent them mucking up your cause.  Forums are by their definition are a place to debate issues such as this and a debate must have at least 2 sides, 2 opinions otherwise it becomes a lecture.

If you're going to debate the topic then fine, if you're going to complain about how we run/moderate/update/remove our web site then you'll get the same response I give to everyone who starts down that road.  When I "moderate" these forums I do so to the best of my ability, taking into consideration the thoughts and feelings of those who use them.  I will admit than on probably more than one occasion, I have expressed extreme views and had to remove them or apologise, but thats where the community element of this site comes into play.  It was asked, who moderates the moderators?  Well, everyone does, we only have these forums because you all come and post things here, you only have these forums because we put them here, take away one of those two elements and you have no forum.  We're happy to provide them because you are happy to use them, we hope your happiness is maintained by our moderation of whats posted here (something that doesnt often have to happen).  And when our visitors feel unhappy with our actions, we do take on board what is said and between us decide whether we should heed what has been said and apply new controls over what we do.

One last point, if a moderator never expresses an opinion, how can you trust they will moderate in a fashion you find suitable.  Moderators for all kinds of things are not chosen for their lack of opinion.

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## dpw39

Obviously you dont like criticism, and as you are in charge/control/have power over content etc, of this Community Facility, whether it be Moderator, Webmaster or what-ever, you have a responsibility to ensure that your personal feelings should not be displayed to all and sundry no matter how strongly you feel on the subject matter. If you feel that the content is offensive to others who use the facility, then it is also your responsibility to Moderate it, or ban the content or its user in your capacity as Webmaster etc.

As a community web-site, its not your own personal soap-box, whether you agree or disagree with the content of the debate, as long as it falls within the guidelines that are set out within the sites remit.

First of all you have stated that you where getting a slagging, and now you state that you are being attacked, as I have no way inferred that I was slagging or attacking you, do you feel paranoid!!! As regards to windmills I am neither here nor there on the matter, its just the way people in certain positions of authority/control etc, misuse their positions. Eg:

If you're going to debate the topic then fine, if you're going to complain about how we run/moderate/update/remove our web site then you'll get the same response I give to everyone who starts down that road. 


I am not complaining, I am making a point, that I feel that one has to be careful in the content that they post. Obviously, customer relations is not one of your strong points, as your above reply explains everything (and that is a personal remark). 

For future references, if I feel, as a member of the community on Caithness.org, that a person is overstepping their authority ie: personal opinions etc, I will always paste the following: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

As you stated previously; who moderates the moderators? Well everyone does so it would seem, because I questioned who moderates the moderator, you felt that it was a personal attack on your position (your words), and that I was slagging you off, which is not the case.



a moderator therefore "moderates", not one who has an opinion, and should not be freely expressed in their official context. As regards to rules, it applies more to moral expectations and standards. 


Ciao, Dave the Rave   ::  

Ps... after looking at ThUg-LiFe's last comment on FOG LIGHTS, I do appreciate a moderator on this site, especially when they don't express their personal opinions. And also to quote previously "*And when our visitors (which I'm one), feel unhappy with our actions, we do take on board what is said and between us decide whether we should heed what has been said and apply new controls over what we do*."

Looking back over the last few posts, is the action that followed, "*new controls*" as above. Ouch...

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## Anonymous

I still dont understand why a person with moderator status should not be allowed to express an opinion.

And as far as using the forums as a soap box, well I thought that was the point of a forum?  stand up and have your say?

tbh I cant even remember the last time I removed a post, other than the sold items in the for-sale sections.  For most of the time I dont even consider myself to be a moderator, I'm just taking part in the discussions, having my say, same as everyone else.  I'm not trying to say that I don't require the watchful eye of a moderator to ensure I follow the rules and on some occasions I've posted some things that some people have not agreed with or found offensive in some way.  But I've always tried to maintain my own position as a person first and a moderator second.  If I read something to which I feel I cant reply without being abusive or breaching the guidelines then I just dont post, but I dont switch into moderator mode and remove whatever I dont agree with.

Perhaps we should take the "should moderators have an opinion" debate to another thread and possibly run a poll?

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## MadPict

Not sure if many remember this image but as it is tucked away in the CCWS archive it may be worth having a look at.

http://www.caithness.org/windfarms/p...photos.htm?0?1

As for moderators, they should be allowed a point of view - they are there to enforce the forum guidelines should they require and in drastic cases edit/remove posts which breach the terms of the forum.
I act as a moderator on a pretty busy forum at the moment, and apart from occasionally enforcing the rules, I also answer questions that may be posted, point posters in the right direction and assist with aspects of running of the parent site. I also post items to the boards, and am allowed to put my views across. 
As long as I keep within the guidelines. 

So who moderates the moderators? Well I suppose the Admins do if they need to. And no doubt the owner of the site has final say. So Niall has 3 hats to wear I suppose, but I certainly don't feel he should be gagged just because he acts as a moderator sometimes.

Perhaps moderator is the wrong term for this type of medium - forum monitor (forumonitor?) may be more apt. Perhaps a contest to devise a new title could be started?!!

Should CCWS appoint moderators for the message boards, they have them in the Chatroom?. But from what I've seen in the past with transgressors of the forum rules, things seem to be under control.
Just my 2p worth......

MadPict

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## Achreamieboy

Wow

Been away for the weekend and come back to find some serious discontent on the message board!

As I started this thing off, I think I'm entitled to a few words.

1 - anyone should be entitled to expressing an opinion on line - moderator or not.  However, what Neil Fernie's done is upset what was set up specifically to gather some more info on who is against the Borrowston development.  This is comparable to me going into the Caithness Band pages and slagging off all their music!  I am disappointed that, considering Neil felt so strongly about renewable energy, couldn't simply start a separate supporters page and leave this one alone.
2 - the reason I started off this page was to gather more info against the Borrowston development.  If it goes ahead, the nearest turbine would be 600m from my house and within 1km of a further 20 houses.  We will all suffer constant noise 24 hours a day (and possibly knock-on health effects), large chunks of blade may come though the house in a gale, we will lose money from our investments (as our property values will drop about 30%), etc.  This is NOT some pretend situation where "we don't want trendy windmills" - this is real life.  Put yourself in my situation - would you really want a large, noisy industrial development that close to your home? There are alternatives - the wind farm does not have to be sited here.
3 -  Borrowston is a development very close to my heart as it will affect my quality of life and my pocket.  I am NOT against renewable enegry (or even against windfarms) in general - but I believe there are far more suitable places to site them than within several hundred metres of peoples homes.  Personally, I believe that off-shore wind power is the best way to go, and that the smaller, less efficient and more intrusive land-based sites should be stopped.  Everywhere.
4 - anyone for a "windfarm on the white cliffs of dover"  supporters site?

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## Anonymous

Or how about a windfarm in RS Shands garden  ::

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## XR2

[quote="Achreamieboy"]Wow

Been away for the weekend and come back to find some serious discontent on the message board!

As I started this thing off, I think I'm entitled to a few words.

1 - anyone should be entitled to expressing an opinion on line - moderator or not.  However, what Neil Fernie's done is upset what was set up specifically to gather some more info on who is against the Borrowston development.  This is comparable to me going into the Caithness Band pages and slagging off all their music!  I am disappointed that, considering Neil felt so strongly about renewable energy, couldn't simply start a separate supporters page and leave this one alone.


Why should he have to set up a seperate page?  This is a public forum as far as I am aware, so therefore you can't restrict people from posting where they want or expressing there views just because they don't agree with yours.

It seems to me you aren't interested to hear the fact that not everyone agrees with your views and opinions.  You mention that living next to the windmills is akin to living next to a noisey industrial site!  You are already living next to an industrial site, it just happens to have a nuclear power plant on it!

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## Achreamieboy

[quote="XR2"]

It seems to me you aren't interested to hear the fact that not everyone agrees with your views and opinions.  You mention that living next to the windmills is akin to living next to a noisey industrial site!  You are already living next to an industrial site, it just happens to have a nuclear power plant on it!

OK so answer this one, boy racer:
- if we already have an "industrial site" within about 1 mile, so why should we have to put up with another?  After all, we've done our bit. How about adjacent to Wick or Thurso - might be a bit of a different public reaction then.......

Of course people have different views and opinions - and though I certainly don't agree with many, I do listen. Stating views and opinions is the main reason to use a public forum, isn't it?

Don't you agree that there are better places to site windfarms than within several hundred metres of peoples houses????

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## XR2

[quote="Achreamieboy"]
OK so answer this one, boy racer:
quote]


Now, now, no need to resort to name calling!!

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## XR2

[quote="Achreamieboy"]
- if we already have an "industrial site" within about 1 mile, so why should we have to put up with another?  After all, we've done our bit. How about adjacent to Wick or Thurso - might be a bit of a different public reaction then.......
[quote]

You say 'after all we've done our bit'.  I am sure the nuclear site was there before you were but you have chosen to live nearby so how can you say we have done our bit by having it nearby?

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## Achreamieboy

> You say 'after all we've done our bit'.  I am sure the nuclear site was there before you were but you have chosen to live nearby so how can you say we have done our bit by having it nearby?


Achreamie is a community of over 100 people, most of whom have farmed the area for generations.  Including Buldoo and Forss there are probably 150 people. So I stand by the statement that our community have done their bit.

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## dpw39

Fao: Niall

Re: Moderators Opinions

Obviously you do not feel that I have a valid case, hence your suggestion of a POLL.

It is felt that if all members of caithness.org where polled with a questionnaire with regards to the opinions outlined in previous posts, it is felt that this would be more advantageous, as not everyone will view certain topics listed on the community web-site.

Also, the wording of the questionnaire would have to be put in such a way that it is not ambiguous in anyway.

I now await comments or suggestions from yourself and any other interested party on the above topic.


Regards,



Dave the Rave.

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## dranesville

Everyone seems to be getting away from the start of the thread.

I am totally against a windfarm at Borrowston.  Or Forss.  Or Dunbeath.  Or Mey.  Or Westerdale.  Or Wick.  Or Thurso.

These things have their place but its either up some remote glen, out to sea, or in Englandshire, not near houses in Caithness. I fully support Achreamieboy and the Achreamie community.

Windfarms by your back door are an invasion of your privacy and an intrusion on your lives.  I should know.  My uncle and aunt had one go up about 800m from their home in the Lake District.  My aunt was almost driven mad from the noise, and they moved from the area last year making a loss of about 30% on their property.  Now that's what I call an invasion of every aspect of your rights and your privacy.

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## Gizmo

I say the more wind farms the better, we get far too much wind up here anyway so why not make some use of it.

Personally i dont think those wind turbines look bad, they certainly dont spoil the landscape, the only thing that has shocked me about them is their sheer size, they are absolutely massive when your right next to them, all this fuss about them is just a bunch of moaning minnie stick in the mud caithnesians who dont like anything that resembles change or progress, those turbines are not exactly in a highly populated area and they are extremely quiet, and they wont make the wildlife glow in the dark like that other powerstation a couple of miles away  :Smile: 

Cheers

Oh, btw, i rarely agree with any of Nials opinions or rules, but moderator or not, he is entitled to his opinion on this matter, so quit giving him such a hard time over it

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## 2little2late

The name of the game is progress. Trouble with people up here is they are so far behind the times they wouldn't know what progress is if it smacked them in the face.

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## MadPict

> I say the more wind farms the better, we get far too much wind up here anyway so why not make some use of it.
> 
> Personally i dont think those wind turbines look bad, they certainly dont spoil the landscape, the only thing that has shocked me about them is their sheer size, they are absolutely massive when your right next to them, all this fuss about them is just a bunch of moaning minnie stick in the mud caithnesians who dont like anything that resembles change or progress, those turbines are not exactly in a highly populated area and they are extremely quiet, and they wont make the wildlife glow in the dark like that other powerstation a couple of miles away 
> 
> Cheers


Gizmo,
Tell you what, seeing as you have *so* much space up there you can have all our windfarms, the proposed extra runways at Heathrow, Stanstead and Gatwick, then we'll see how you feel about the noise!!




> and they are extremely quiet


And which comic book did you glean that snippet of information from??

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## MadPict



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## Gizmo

Madpict, i'm not talking about the amount of turbines like in your picture, the TWO at Forss are extremely quiet, i have stood right next to them when they have been going and there wasnt much noise at all, of course the more turbines then the more noise but as far as i know there are only another 8 planned for that site and your arguement seems to be based on the assumption that there will be wind farms with hundreds of turbines erected here, which is not the case, and never will be.

And as for Airport noise, well if your daft enough to buy a house next to one then i have no sympathy for you, anyway this is not a discussion about airport noise, it's about windfarms!!

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## MadPict

Gizmo,
It may only be two here and eight there *now* but there is every possibility that the image in the picture above could well be repeated in Caithness. Have you had a look at the simulation of the windfarm at Causeymire that I linked to a few posts up?
Just as landowners get subsidies to set aside fields so they may get them for putting up a windfarm. 

I don't live next to an airport - yet. :: 
But there are a lot of people who do and who bought their property when the was no airport. And my remark was in reply to your statement about noise - as you seem to think that noise would be fine in your neck of the woods (or forest of windmills!)

MadPict

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## Anonymous

Perhaps someone local to the wind turbines has some recording equipment, audio or video and can let us hear the noise of these turbines.  I'd be happy to upload any mp3 audio or similarly compressed video for all to hear/see.

dpw39: no I dont feel you have a valid case and I also think you should set up the poll and word it any way you see fit.  (I take it by "it is felt" you mean "I feel"?).  As a poll can be discussed as well I dont think you need to put anything more ambiguous than "should moderators take part in discussions on these forums?" yes/no

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## Achreamieboy

Niall - that's a very good idea, though a microphone may not copy the subsonic noise (the one that makes you feel ill.....) - I'll see what I can do and email you an mp3 over the weekend if successful.

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## ber219

I have to agree with Niall on this one Wind Farms are a good idea to have up here, they are definately a lot safer than Dounreay with all thoughs particals that they are finding on the beach, you wouldn't get any nuclear bits and peices flying of a windfarm...
Have you seen the Wind thing at Berriedale, I live there I really don't think that it is all that bad, there are far more important things to complaint about than Wind Farms, they are safer to the environment as well, so yes i agree with Niall that Wind Farms are a good idea.  :Grin:

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## MadPict

How many wind turbines are there at Berriedale? 
2 or 3?
And if they are the ones I'm thinking of, they are up on a hill away from any properties. When they are joined by 20, 30 or 40 more then we'll see how you feel. In single installations, away from homes, they may be bearable but when these turn into wind*farms* or clusters or whatever you wish to call them, that is when siting them becomes an important issue, where alternative sites such as off shore should be considered.
Another point I want to make. Why do they paint them bright white? If they toned them down by using a grey paint they might blend into the background a bit more.
If you look at large warehouses which impact on skylines they are invariably painted in such a way as to reduce their visual impact on the landscape.

MadPict

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## Achreamieboy

The windmill at Berriedale (yes there is only one) is an excellent example of how to use renewable energy sensibly.  The windmill has been put up by the owners on their land, they benefit directly from it, and it is located far enough away from the next occupied house that noise is not an issue.  There are no subsidies involved (so its not your tax money being wasted), and the electricity that is generated is used by the estate - not sold on for a ridiculous high price as is the case with the commercial wind farms.  The windmill is relatively small and although it can be seen across the valley, visual impact is pretty negligable compared to the modern turbines.

However, the windmill at Berriedale is a toy by comparison to the turbines which developers now want to stick all over the county.  I don't know the actual height of it, but would guess that the hub height would be about 10 metres.  The Forss windmills are over 40m in hub height - and the proposed Borrowston ones 60m hub height (93m total height including the blades) - that's 300 feet for God's sake! 

I agree with Mad Pict that one turbine appears almost graceful compared to lines and groups of turbines.  Though just down the road from me, the two at Forss don't really bother me - I can see them but can't hear them, but add a further 7 there and 10 much larger ones in the adjacent field (which is the proposed Borrowston development), and thats a completely different ball game.

There is a place for wind farm developments, but not within several hundred metres of where people live.  Off-shore is my preference.  

If windfarms are to be sited within, say 1km of occupied homes and farms, then there should be a requirement for the developers to offer to buy the homes from those who do not want to live beside them.  And compensation on an annual basis for those who wany to stay put. 

This is all about money, not renewable energy.  Which is why so many large companies are already on the bandwagon.  Government subsidies are such that investment returns from wind farms are one of the best returns you can get.  And its guaranteed for 20 or 25 years.

Ber219 will get a much better idea of what a commercial windfarm looks like when the Tony Hall's development is constructed at the back of Dunbeath.  

And by the way Ber219 you are wrong about bits coming off wind turbines - blades shear off and bits have been known to travel 500m in strong winds.  And these aren't small bits - they can go through the side of a house.

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## mungogerry

Sir,
      So now we have another Scottish Minister determined to turn Scotlands landscape, upon which we depend for one of our biggest incomes  tourism, into Englands windfarm  as proposed by Brian Wilson, Labours energy minister.

We now have Lewis Macdonald, Deputy Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Minister, wanting fast tracking for windfarm proposals. 

Fast tracking for flawed technology  I suppose that we shouldnt expect anything better from the occupiers of Whitehall (North), where even the lifts dont work.

So our MPs want to build lots of wind generators, each one the height of the Satue of Liberty. 
Each generator will only run for an intermittent 25% of the time, so that no power station can be shut down  so no reduction in greenhouse gas emission  no gain there.

The Scottish Executive has stated that the increased cost will have to be borne by the customer, householder and industry  no gain there.

Added to this is the cost of the high capacity power lines that will not be carrying any power for 66% of the time  no gain there.

One can only ask  why?


Different Parliament  same insanity.

Allan Cherry
51 Church Street
Huntly

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## blueneep

Back on topic......... i am all for the wind farms......  ::   ::   ::

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## William

> Back on topic......... i am all for the wind farms......


i totally agree the wind farms are a really good idea and i really can't understand why everyone is against it

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## blueneep

yeah i dont even think their ugly the more the merrier   ::   ::   ::

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## zagor

Niall 
Maybe you should have done the same thing countless others do when they don't agree with a petition and sign your name as Daffy Duck

From a quick read of some of the comments which seem to me to be personnally insulting you  for having an opinion which is different from there own perhaps this would have been more suitable an action for you to take.

Just so you know I support the windfarms too and yes they can put one in my backgarden if they like!

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## William

> yeah i dont even think their ugly the more the merrier


Yeah that is the way to think better and safer and cleaner as well

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## CHESTER

Is it true ? that it Caithness Glass sign on the Ord has been changed to , Will  the last Wind Turbine Technician" Please Lock The Gate"

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## MadPict

> Is it true ? that it Caithness Glass sign on the Ord has been changed to , Will  the last Wind Turbine Technician" Please Lock The Gate"


Maybe that should read "Would the last greedy, money grabbing landowner flick the on switch"?

MadPict

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## Riffman

hmmm... well i was all for turbines until friday when i was chatting to a guy who does reserch about such things and he told me that they only have an efficiency of about 4%!  That is staggeringly bad!!  he pointed out that trees manage to stop almost 100% of the wind, but these turbines hardly stop it at all.  it is a good thing that i am going to be working with him to investigate more eff turbines based on natural principles.


Riff

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## Riffman

:Smile:   message removed   :Grin: [/b]

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## MadPict

[/url]http://renewableenergy.proboards32.com/index.cgi[url] 

You have the closing tag at the front - it should be  URL

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## tommy turtle

Im not so keen on the windfarms, from the point of view that one or two might be ok, but it generally means everyone with a bit of land wants one, and we end up with them dotted all over the place.

You then have the lifespan problem, as the newer ones have 25 years, but some of the older i believe only have 13, and then they have to be decommissioned, and i just wonder how much effort will go into that, will it be as much as getting them up there in the first place, or will Caithness be left with ineffectual wind farms, that like others elsewhere sit redundant, because the decomissioning was never complete.

Why arent we looking at off shore, and natural water energy sources. Wind farms as someone else pointed out, arent that efficient, and that the bulk of the energy doesnt actually go to Caithness, nor save us money, it goes off shore, or straight on to the grid and then off to France. I was speaking to an old college at Scottish Power, and he was saying that the bulk of energy will not benefit us in anyway.

If that is the case, and i would be grafetul is someone could tell us, why should we have our landscape altered. 

Tommy Turtle

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## Stegglervision

I don't understand what all the fuss is about - surely it is better to have renewable clean energy than pollute the wonderful environment of Caithness that we all live in. 

Perhaps we should build another nuclear power station between Wick and Thurso - after all it would create more jobs than renewable - and long term jobs too - we could all spend decades guarding all of the nuclear waste that we could bury on the strath at Dunbeath ?!

If all we have to worry about is a few windmills on the landscape - then I'm thankful for it.
 ::

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## badger

Stegglervision - are you tongue in cheek or did you not read previous posts?  It's not just a few windmills -that's the whole point.  It's 25 here, 26 there, more round every corner and over every hill.  Where will it all end?  Someone at the recent Bower meeting said he would be seeing four farms from his house if they all went through.  One or two are beautiful,  hundreds are a menace - to the view, to the silence, to the wildlife, to our health and heaven knows what else.  Then the power has to be transported - over or under ground for possibly hundreds of miles.  Moderation in all things.

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## Stegglervision

Badger - I'm not tongue in cheek, and yes I did read the previous posts.
Where do you suggest we build our next Nuclear  Reactor and store all of it's by-products? 
As with windpower - you'll find the easy answer is 'not on my doorstep'.

But don't be so shortsighted and look a little further ahead - where will all of the electricity come from in the future, once the fossil fuels have been used up. 

If we embrace wind and water power now, then in the future and with the backing of HIE our local area will have a long history of expertise in renewable fuels and Caithness could be a world leader. We could be developing and testing windmills here in Caithness to sell to the world - after all we do have perfect conditions - it's an asset that we should make the most of. 
Or we could turn our back on it and fingers crossed that the kettle works next time you turn it on...  ::

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## JAWS

Somebody must have the figures ablut how many there might be. 

How many have been applied for, how many are in the planning stage, how many are passed, ready for construction, how many site have anemometers checking for suitability? 

The figures ought to be somewhere and published. (I know, the figures are  "Commercially Sensitive". A good hidey-hole for for unscrupulous politicians to hide in!) 

The last map I saw at one of the indoctrination sessions was covered in pretty different coloured little circles all showing a site at various stages. And they were only the ones that one particular Company knew about. They volunteered the fact that there were probably more that they weren't aware of. 

Each dot showed a possible site there was nothing to say how many Turbines were proposed for each. If half of them came into being there would literally be thousands of Turbines.

----------


## MadPict

You mean this map?


MadPict

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## JAWS

Aye! But I think you missed one of the sites off.   ::

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## simian sally

MadPict, do you appreciate the technical and economic arguments for and against the development of windfarms, or are you merely agin anything that spoils your view, hypothetically or otherwise?

You come over as the latter, but I still harbour a solitary glimmer of rapidly-fading hope for the former. I spy no other source of light nearby.

----------


## JAWS

From a recent "Scotland on Sunday" Report.

"GAS and electricity bills will rocket by 20% over the next six years as a direct result of the UK’s move towards ‘green’ energy, consumers will be warned this week. 

Experts believe the shift from traditional fuels such as oil, coal and gas to ‘renewable’ energy sources, such as wind and solar power, may contribute towards saving the environment but will cost householders dear. 
Annual energy bills for a typical home are likely to increase, based on today’s prices from around £575 to £700 by the end of the decade. 
The warning comes from the Labour-friendly think tank the Institute of Public Policy Research (IPPR),

The IPPR concludes that overall price rises will be in the region of 20%, before the effects of inflation, by 2010. 
Utility companies plan to plough over £10bn into building more than 73 wind farms around Britain during the next few years, and analysts say the cost of the investment will inevitably be passed on to customers. 

Once built, renewable energy facilities are expensive to maintain compared with traditional sources. 
The Royal Academy of Engineering recently estimated that the cost of generating electricity at offshore wind farms was 5.5 pence per kilowatt-hour, more than twice the unit costs for gas turbines and nuclear power, estimated at a little over 2p/kwh. Onshore wind generation costs 3.7p/kwh. 
Traditional coal-fired power stations generate at less than 2p/kwh, but the government’s demand that they reduce the carbon emitted by the fuel more than doubles the price." 


And I didn't even have one Whinge and/or Moan at them, it was all their own work!

----------


## MadPict

> MadPict, do you appreciate the technical and economic arguments for and against the development of windfarms, or are you merely agin anything that spoils your view, hypothetically or otherwise?


I do indeed appreciate the pros and cons of windfarms. 
I am all for sustainable green forms of energy production and if you have read my posts on this subject you will see that I am firmly of the believe that windfarms would be far better off being sited at sea. 
In fact one of the largest UK developments is mid way through construction off Scroby Sands - link- which is not far from my neck of the woods.

I have also stated that one or two wind turbines placed throughout the county would be fine but I am worried that Caithness will become a dumping ground for all the windfarm developments which are refused permission in other parts of the UK, and are welcomed by the people of Caithness in the hope of them bringing employment into the county. 




> You come over as the latter, but I still harbour a solitary glimmer of rapidly-fading hope for the former. I spy no other source of light nearby.


You see you only know me from my alter ego here so you will not understand my reasons for wishing to protect the beauty of Caithness, and it is not a case of Nimbyism or even Banana-ism, but I dare say if the "light" you are hoping to spy is powered by a wind turbine it will come and go with the breeze......

Ohh and BTW, the map was a bit of fun....  :: 


MadPict

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## badger

If I thought wind turbines were incredibly efficient and were going to make a major contribution to our energy requirements I would be prepared to accept a reasonable number in Caithness but apparently they are not efficient, they only last 15-20 years and I understand Denmark are now removing them.  Also we don't really know enough about their side effects on health, environment etc.  I just have a nasty feeling they are giving the firms that make them large profits, good source of income for the landowners, makes the government feel better about their "green" policies but .... what do we really know about them?  I used to live near one of the first ones near Stroud in Glos. (which is about as Green a place as you can get) and was so proud that we had one of the first manufacturers in the town and this, as I thought, beautiful thing we could stand and stare at - but, that was one not hundreds.  What I'd like to see is more emphasis on economy to balance things up a bit.    ::

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## JAWS

MadPict, I still think you missed one of the dots off on the map! 

I too weigh the Pros and Cons of windpower up and can smell propeganda a mile off. 

Government want something visible so they can pretend they are doing something to save the world and gain "Smarty Points". Even better, windpower costs them very little apart from a few Bribes (Sorry - Grants), so no increased taxes. People know the wind is already there so we can convince them they are getting something for nothing.

The Power Companies lay out most of the costs and eventually recover them from the consumer. Even better for the Government, the "Greedy" Power Companies take the blame. Cue Chancellor - "Look at al the money you're getting, I must tax you for the benifit of the people!" 

The Power Companies move into remote (Low population - i.e. few voter) areas and offer Community Bribes, sorry - Cash. (Throw the monkeys a few peanuts to keep them happy).
There will be lots of initial activity so we can tell the locals it's creating jobs. Once they are there and the jobs disappear it will be too late for them to do anything about it. 

Some areas have already realised this and are looking at shared Company/Community Ownership. (We will see how far that gets). 

Lots more could be done to reduce power useage by people and companies. 
Better building insulation, with grants to bring all buildings upto date with the latest insulation regulations. 
Better use of the power wasted by "Cooling Towers" at power stations. Community heating and hot water supply for one. 
Zero VAT on energy efficient bulbs and appliances to encourage their use. 
Zero VAT on insulating materials etc. 

As far as public services are concerned. 
Go within 30 miles of any city or large town at night and they "Glow in the Dark" with street lights. They will use more power in one night than any of your homes will use in a lifetime. Switch them off, all of them, every single one, they just are not needed. 
Traffic lights and street signs, lit for the benefit of people who are not there. 
Take the average city dweller away from the bright lights and they panic because something has gone wrong with the world, everythings gone dark, somebody must do something. 

Wind power is very visible and makes people think something is happening. Energy reduction is not visible so there are no "Smarty Points" to be gained. 

"Perhaps Lincoln was wrong, Sir Humphrey, and you can fool all of the people all of the time - well, at least long enough for somebody else to be running the Govenment to take the blame!" 

At least the windfarms will keep Don Quixote busy so they do have some uses.

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## MadPict

> MadPict, I still think you missed one of the dots off on the map!


I can reveal that there is indeed one missed off the map, but that is a stealth wind turbine....  ::  


MadPict

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## JAWS

That must be the one they put In My Back Yard then. 
I will have to keep an eye open for any more in case I bump into them.   ::

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## you

Did anyone vote for or look at the information from the "Save our Hills" party? (There is a web site, but I can't remember the address).
I believe that the UK is already buying energy from France - nuclear energy - or am I misinformed?

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## JAWS

The site is at
http://www.saveourhills.org/intro.htm

Yes we do get electricity from France to cover our deficiencies, but don't say it too loudly, it's not polite to mention it in public. 

France is one of the main users of Nuclear Power, but that again is unmentionable. 
When did you last hear about the French demonstations against Nuclear Power or demonstrations outside the French Embassy in London? 

You have to believe that of all the European Countries only Britain has nasty nuclear power, only Britain has nasty fossil fuel power stations, only Britain is doing nothing to help stop the world being destroyed. 

Does anybody know where all the peat went from the peatworks on the Causeymire?

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## MadPict

> Does anybody know where all the peat went from the peatworks on the Causeymire?


Several million gardens without a doubt. Except for mine. I refuse to use any peat based products. There are just as good alternatives available, but then your average gardener just doesn't think about it when they pop to the local garden centre on a Sunday...  ::

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## JAWS

I did hear a whisper that Scandinavia was involved somewhere along the line. Can anybody help on that one? 

One thing is certain though. A short time ago the Scottish Executive suddenly decided that Scotland didn't have any National Parks. After many decades of doing nothing about it there was a sudden panic to create one for the benefit of Scotland and nothing was allowed to stand in the way. 

Strangely enough, about the same time there were announcements about re-newable energy being a huge priority. 

Lo and behold! 
It came to pass that the word of the Executive came into being. 
A National Park was created on the face of Scotland. 
And the Executive saw that it was good. 

But the promises of the Executive did return to haunt them. 
Many foreign Power Companies saw the beauty of Scotland and coveted it for their own use. 
Accordingly, they said unto the Executive, "You did promise re-newable energy and we have come to supply it. There is the whole of Scotland which we can use to fulfill your promises." 

But the Executive where aware of the possibility that this might occur and thus they had made themselves ready. 
"We give unto you the whole of the Highlands and the Borders to do with as you wish, but touch not the National Park for it is sacrosanct." 

"Why should that be?" asked the Power Companies. 
"Because we have decreed it." said the Executive. "And besides, the people of the Central Belt play there and there are great attractions for the tourists to bring money so touch not the National Park for it will offend the people." 

"But what about the beautious parts of the Highlands and the Borders for there are wonderous places there also!" said the Power Companies. "Will the people there not be likewise offended?" 

"Get hither and bother us no more with such petty matters!" said the Executive. "There are too few voters there to affect us. It's the people of the large towns and cities who can hurt us. Ignore the others for they can be trampled on with impunity!" 

And it came to pass that the beautious areas near the Central Belt were preserved for eternity.

And the rest of Scotland was left to the will of the selfish.

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## Anonymous

So you'll all be for the flow country becomming the 5th world heritage site in Scotland?

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## JAWS

The Sooner the Better! 

Other wise it will eventually end up as just another piece of derelict industrial wasteland and there's enough of that around already. 

Either that or some enterprising bright spark will drain it and plant regiments of uniform conifers all over it and then discover it's too expensive to fell them. 

Perhaps digging all the peat out so it can be spread on pretty gardens might be a use for it. That way the hole left could be used by the Highland Council as a huge Landfill site to replace all the others already in existance.

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## PhilR

Just thought I'd comment on POORMAN's description of a "dreary & bleak landscape". I'm a Wicker living in Kuwait, and believe me, when all you have to look at is flat brown desert, you realise what a fantastic place Caithness is! Mixed views on the windfarm issue, but dont take the Caithness landscape for granted.....

Phil Reid

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## you

Caithness is a natural site of beauty and exceptional value which we will bequeath to our children. I hope they do not blame us for selling the family jewels unnecessarily.

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## daviddd

Many people who reject the idea of wind farms probably wouldn't consider cutting down on electricity - but the pollution + global warming from coal fired power station emissions is helping kill the planet off! And by the way most scientists consider that to even meet todays electricity demand we will have to start building nuclear power stations again - or go back to candles and open fires   ::

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## JAWS

And many scientists put their mouths where the money is. 

Saying "Everything's fine don't worry" doesn't get you funding.

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## Suz

Have read all comments with interest.  
OK, we don't want windfarms appearing all over our county - so where do we go from here?

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## dirtyweeker

I am all for Wind Farms.  Wind is a sustainable energy source that will not run out in the near future like coal etc

We have to think of the future and not us in the present.

"Only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you realise that money cannot be eaten." (Native American saying

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## JAWS

After hearing a news item today about the island of Utsire heading for self-sufficiency in renewable energy and Unst aiming for the same thing I found this on the Shetland Site

http://www.hie.co.uk/Default.aspx.Lo...ishesu6007.htm

Part of the site gave the following information 

_Commenting on the new post, Katrina Wiseman, a development manager with Shetland Enterprise, said: "The NIREP development officer will support local community groups in the north isles to substitute externally produced energy with locally owned and produced renewable energy. This should inject a substantial amount of money into the local economy - and, in turn, create additional employment locally."_

Basically what Utsire has done is to make it's Electricity Supply totally independent from the rest of the Norwegian Power Grid. 
It seems that part of the wind power is used to produce hydrogen, a non polluting gas when burnt (unless you consider water a polutant). The hydrogen is used to produce power to cover periods when wind power is insufficient for the immediate needs. 

Unst seems to be on the same track. Power owned, produced and used locally for the benefit of the local population. This is in addition to producing local jobs. 
No huge Power Companies using the local resources and throwing peanuts to the local population. No huge Windmills to spoil the landscape and cheap electricity to boot! 

If Shetland and Utsire can do it then why can't Caithness. Do we really need or indeed want the Big Boys trampling all over us and taking our money south with them when it could well remain here in Caithness? 

Any excess not used here could always be sold to the big power conglomerates - for a reasonable consideration of course for the benefit of the whole of Caithness!

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## Anonymous

I like windmills in particular the ones at the Causewaymire. They stand there very majestic like  Huge Guardian Angels.............but then thats only my opinion  :Smile:

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## badger

If you lived near the ones on the Causewaymire you might not think them so beautiful as I've heard from someone who does that the continuous noise keeps them awake at night and the turbines are apparently working at a fraction of the efficiency they should be.  

Think Jaws has it absolutely right in his 14 June post - we need far more emphasis on energy conservation.  If all the developed countries really put their minds to not wasting energy we would not be in such a frightening situation.  I read once that if every hotel in the UK kept their TV sets turned off when not in use instead of on standby, four power stations could be closed down.  How many people know that a TV uses nearly as much power in standby mode as it does on?  Why do people need bright security lights on their houses all night?  etc., etc.

The Council had a stand during the Wick gala with a leaflet giving all sorts of tips on energy saving, then completely ruined the effect by handing it out in a specially printed plastic carrier full of silly toys - all specially produced wasting resources and destined for the nearest rubbish bin so adding to the landfill sites.   Talk about mixed messages   ::

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## David Swanson

> I like windmills in particular the ones at the Castlemire. They stand there very majestic like  Huge Guardian Angels.............but then thats only my opinion


You might be right there. It could be only you with that opinion. You and the landowners.  :Frown: 

MadPict's map further up may be an exaggeration, note I did say "may", but it does seem to indicate all the places you will be able to see at least one windfarm from.

The next development before the planning committee is installation of an anemometer mast at Durran, near the top of Olrig. Olrig Hill is only 141m above sea level, but is still one of the highest points in the north-east half of Caithness. Most people in that area can probably see it if they look in the right direction (It currently has a couple of short masts at the top) If you stick 26 100m wind turbines near the top, you will not only see them from most of the county, but they will attract your attention since they are moving. I think this development will have the biggest visual impact of any proposed so far.

"Say NO to Durran Windfarm" want to stop it at the first hurdle: Before they can record wind patterns. The flyer I was given says:



> Windfarms. Don't let the ruin our land.
> Say NO at the planning meeting in Wick this Monday 9th August at 9am
> If you are able to help...
> Please be there on Bridge Street, Wick at 9a.m. on Monday 9th August (Meeting starts at 9.30am)
> Bring your relations, children, friends - their lives will be dominated by the windmills.
> Make a placard!
> {The examples shown are 'Say no to windfarms!', 'Keep Caithness Special' and 'Anemometers lead to windfarms - No!'}
> Come and make yourself heard!


The Scottish Executive have final say on the biggest developments and all they seem to be interested in is meeting targets. (Who ARE the Scottish Executive anyway? Did we vote for them? They seem to make all the important decisions, not the Scottish Parliament.) The anemometer mast is a local council decision.
For some reason, existing large hydro power stations don't count towards renewable energy targets. Scottish and Southern Energy have to provide 10% of their generation capacity from NEW renewable energy sources instead of just topping up their existing 8%

David Swanson

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## JAWS

> The Scottish Executive have final say on the biggest developments and all they seem to be interested in is meeting targets. (Who ARE the Scottish Executive anyway? Did we vote for them? They seem to make all the important decisions, not the Scottish Parliament.)


The Scottish Executive represent the Central Belt, that's where they get the vast majority of their votes and thats where the vast majority of the MSPs are from. 

If you think that Caithness and even Sutherland with their handful of votes and MSPs matter to them then you are sadly mistaken. 

Provided the Turbines at the Wind Factories don't affect them they don't really care where they are sited. 

The first thing they did was to protect thier own Back Yard by inventing a National Park so they had an excuse for not having any round them. 

I have no objection to wind power in theory, it is obviously a good thing, but it's in the application that the problems arise. 

Lets make sure that they are on a more Human scale and a little less of the Industrial size. 
Lets make sure that the local people have control of the production and the local use. 
Let the local 'Powers that Be' check what other small comunities are doing with their resources. 
Lets forget the Highland Council because to most of them Caithness is just an unimportant outpost on the edge of the wilderness. 

It's time to stop the looting of Caithness for the benefit of others. 
It's time that the riches of Caithness were kept for the use of Caithnessians. 
Too much of Caithness has been taken for the benefit of others.

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## Anonymous

If you lived near the ones on the Causewaymire you might not think them so beautiful {quote}Badger.

Im glad I dont have to live nearby them, and the people that do have my sympathies. For many years I had to live beside Hydro Electric Pylons along with one of these Masts with dishes of all sizes attached. I was only making a comment on how they looked on the landscape. My apologies for any offence caused. As it seems I have upset David Swanson also.

i

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## JAWS

aurora, your opinion is as valid as anybody elses. 
I might look at them differently to you but that in no way offends me.

Just try and imagine a nice peaceful day, sitting in a beautiful quiet place admiring the view surrounded by 50 million people all trying to enjoy the same thing.

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## David Swanson

Aurora,
You haven't upset me. I was just pointing out that you seem to be in a minority in liking the windmills.

Jaws,
I already knew what the Scottish Executive's priorities are but despite the term often being used I didn't know who they actually are.
I have finally done a bit of research and found that it is the MSPs who are in the ruling coalition i.e. Labour and Lib-Dems, but not the SNP, SSP, Green Party, etc. Anything related to the Scottish Executive has given me the feeling of being decreed rather than debated. I now understand why this was.

David Swanson

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## JAWS

The term 'Scottish Executive' was invented to cover their true description. 
They should more correctly be termed "The Commissariat". 

"We decree - You obey! That is if you know what is good for you!!"

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## steveler

Hey clearner environmentally friendly energy has to be a good thing for all of us, however as with every other place on the planet there is a severe case of "not in my back yard syndrome going on here too".

I think that the wind farms are a good idea, however in the right place. If they are going to put them up where they are going to errect them clsoe to residential areas then yes they wil be an eyesore, but it is not like the county is short of space now is it?

I have a house in Gillock and am also due to have these windmills planted in a field near me soon. I believe that the land owners are handsomely blackmailed (sorry i meant rewarded) for putting these things on their land, however there appears to be little thought for those that have to live in the viinity for the noise they make as they are far from silent.

Why also can the power of the sea not be harnessed? There i so much water surrounding Caithness most of which has a fair current to it surely Hydro Electric could give some thought to this instead of forcing resdients to tollerate windmills which the Directors of HE would probably not want in their garden unless they wanted the "extra" income.

The most irritating thing is that the power harvested will be supplied elsewhere and will not be used solely for Caithness. Perhaps this could be the answer to the winter power cuts and all those millions of careless Geese that seem to get the blame for power cuts.


 ::   ::

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## whooshjohnny

I am wholeheartedly against the wind turbines being situated in any reasonably well populated area, be it in Caithness or anywhere else. These things are hideous looking, noisy, give off a flash in sunlight, harm wildlife etc.
Windfarms should be built offshore where none of these factors would be a consideration.
As for XR2's comments regarding the rearby nuclear station you will find that Dounreay was forced onto the locals when built and land was compulsary purchased. Ask nearly anyone who lived locally at the time and you will find that they are dead against Donreay. A sweetener however was the work that Dounreay produced and continues to do so! 
How many jobs will be created and sustained by these windfarms?
Will our electricity become cheaper as a result of them?
It will be interesting to see how many applications are submitted once the huge subsidies are lifted!! not many I'll bet.

If Mr(s) XR2 lived adjacent to one of these sites I will bet the same opionions would not be expressed by him/her.

I believe that some of the residents in the Spittal region are alredy complaining of health related problems caused by these turbines.
The Forss offices had to have blackout blinds fitted to their windows to block out the terrible flash. Imagine having to have that on your house great eh?
 ::

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## Anonymous

Perhaps a country wide register would be a good idea, then those people who object to alternative energy types being situated on their doorstep can be listed.  That way they can pay more than the rest of us for their electricity when our country is hit with the european carbon tax in 2010.  I predict that the same people who are complaining about wind turbines now will be just as vocal when their fuel prices go through the roof in 6 years time.

As with all research and development, wind turbines are going to change and problems like the stobing reflected sunlight will be cured.  Also, the old turbines will be replaced by more efficient and less problem causing new models in the future.  As has been said, the electricty produced by the turbines is subsidised so as the end of the easy cash looms I'm sure the companies involved are planning more efficient models so they can continue to reap the benefits.

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## whooshjohnny

So you think that once a developer has saturated an area with strobing wind turbines he will replace them once non strobing ones are developed?

I dont think so that would cost millions m8

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## Anonymous

It could be quite a lot cheaper than paying out compo for those people badly affected.  And I would imagine that the returns from a more efficient turbine would also outweigh the "millions" required to replace it.

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## whooshjohnny

by the time people are claiming compo it will be too late the damage will be done and the claims will be in!!

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## MadPict

Seems like these things are popping up everywhere!!!

http://www.stopcambridgewindfarm.org.uk/



MadPict

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## tides of pentland firth

Cant they use some new fancy technology and camoflage them, ie. on a grey day they would be grey on  a nice day they would be blue. Or at least make them a less obvious coulor than white.

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## squidge

Id like to see local artists decorate them in interesting colours

failing that another suggestion is they are painted a colour to match the ground to horizon level then a colour to match the sky upwards

 ::

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## Zael

thats a problem squdge, out of the fantastic range of colours that our wonderful sky has up here which colour would you pick to be "sky coloured"?

Its as often grey, white, red and everything in between as it is blue.  But I do agree that a bit more thought into the materials and colouring would help those who dont like the look of them.  Do we even notice pylons anymore?  Or have they just become mentally blocked out of your picture when you survey the landscape?  I think the same will be of wind turbines once they fix the things like flashing reflections and shadows.  At the moment they still have quite a shock and awe value since we're not that used to them yet.

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## MadPict

If they were highly polished or covered by mirror sheeting then they would reflect their surroundings and blend in more. Then if they placed multi coloured high wattage spotlights around them they could be used as 21st century disco mirror balls....  ::  


MadPict

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## caithpal

I have no real objection to wind farms apart from the fact that they are not economical, 8 times as expensive as the next cheapest form of electricity production, kill many types of birds that fly into their blades and only put up here because the companies can't get permission to dump them anywhere else.  Why don't we in caithness start to make some money out of them instead of pouring concrete and harbour charges!!!  Lets make the big ugly things and really make some money out of them.  Oh and I hope that it is always windy in Caithness as when we start turing off the nuc station all over the country and rely 100% on imported gas to produce our electricity we're going to need them.  Seems silly to me to put all our countries eggs in one basket so to say!  

The system should work by the electrical companies approaching the land owners as surveys etc show they can get best performance with the least environmental impact etc.  Unfortunately too many land owners looking to make a quick quid are approaching the companies which is wrong!  Did you know that the council got tens of thousands of pounds for the westerdale farm and will continue to get money for each other farm.  What annoys me is the way the power companies treat us as if we are all stupic highlanders!  They give 5 times as much money per MW elec produced to residents and the council in Cumbria than they give up here!!

lets make money out of the this as the council is so greedy they are likely to turn down the applications.  Aparently they can't turn them down as they don't have a strategy on wind farms - I got this from a well known Councillor.  If I wanted to open a chain of brothels in Thurso and Halkirk would they approve that as they don't currently have a startegy on brothels in Caithness?  I bet they wouldn't - well perhaps not anyway?!?!  :Grin:

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## caithpal

I forgot to say that by the time you take account of the electricity cost in producing the material that the blades are made from and the protective coatings on them and the main upright, the ferry to bring them over, the chemicals in the plastics in the blades etc they aren't that much more environmentally friendly that nuclear, if at all.  If the government store spent fuel safely instead of reprocessing, nuclear would be the only option and hopefully will be in the next 10 years or so as the rest of the world (apart from the Germans who now buy their power from France - yeah cleaver I know as the French produce it via the fission route!) are doing - Finland, France, China, Russia, USA, South Africa, Pakistan, Japan to name but a very small number.  We are yet agin going to be left behind instead of at the forefront of technology.

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