# General > Literature >  Writers

## Kingetter

Please join me by adding some of your work. Its kinda lonely on here just now.
Thanks.

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## Kingetter

And you're allowed to comment to!  If you like/don't like please say.
Thanks.

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## canuck

Saveman PMed me his piece.  I certainly did not find it offensive or jarring.  It was very real but not the least bit sensationalist.

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## badger

> Saveman PMed me his piece. I certainly did not find it offensive or jarring. It was very real but not the least bit sensationalist.


Agreed.  I have PMd him, having also received it, and am sorry he felt he had to remove it.  Hope we're not going to have censorship by reader.

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## Kingetter

> Agreed. I have PMd him, having also received it, and am sorry he felt he had to remove it. Hope we're not going to have censorship by reader.


It will always have to be our own choice to withdraw our own submissions - for whatever reason - but, if we've whetted appetites, it would need to be for a very good reason.

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## katarina

me too.  Can't see any reason for removing it.  literature should have no bounderies.

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## Kingetter

> me too. Can't see any reason for removing it. *literature should have no bounderies*.


Well there need to be some.

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## Gleber2

> Well there need to be some.


Why.......?

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## Kingetter

> Why.......?


You mean you seriously can't think of a reason?

Shall we start with defammatory writing - done to incite hatred or worse?

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## Gleber2

> You mean you seriously can't think of a reason?
> 
> Shall we start with defammatory writing - done to incite hatred or worse?


In principle I have no arguement with your statements but I believe that art has or should have no boundaries. There has to be a balance as in every other aspect of life and we have to make allowances for the ugly as well as the beautiful, the harmony as well the dischord and so on. Even the Bible is full of violence and the Jews are urged to kill many times by the Good Lord, racism  rampant therein. Much in this most vaunted of tomes would have to be removed or banned if your beliefs were to hold true.

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## Kingetter

> In principle I have no arguement with your statements but I believe that art has or should have no boundaries. There has to be a balance as in every other aspect of life and we have to make allowances for the ugly as well as the beautiful, the harmony as well the dischord and so on. Even the Bible is full of violence and the Jews are urged to kill many times by the Good Lord, racism rampant therein. Much in this most vaunted of tomes would have to be removed or banned if your beliefs were to hold true.


And I cannot dispute your comments, though I have to say, what has been written can't be recalled - what has yet to be written, could be done with an improvement in standards rather than dropping them.

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## Gleber2

> And I cannot dispute your comments, though I have to say, what has been written can't be recalled - what has yet to be written, could be done with an improvement in standards rather than dropping them.


R U talking about standard of literacy or standard of literature lol. Where are the masterpieces of today and will the masterpieces of tomorrow be written in text speak?
Unfortunately, human standards in all aspects of the arts can only reflect the reality it is created in and human standards, ethically, morally and in every other way are plummeting to depths never before seen. Our decadence will always be represented in our literature and I cannot see either improving.

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## Saveman

> R U talking about standard of literacy or standard of literature lol. Where are the masterpieces of today and will the masterpieces of tomorrow be written in text speak?
> Unfortunately, human standards in all aspects of the arts can only reflect the reality it is created in and human standards, ethically, morally and in every other way are plummeting to depths never before seen. Our decadence will always be represented in our literature and I cannot see either improving.


You should write a book Gleber2  :Smile:

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## Gleber2

> You should write a book Gleber2


To boost my ego and supply words for others to argue about, or to record forever the mundanities of my strange life? People tell me I should write my life story but for some reason it doesn't seem right and I have never managed to start it yet.

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## Saveman

> To boost my ego and supply words for others to argue about, or to record forever the mundanities of my strange life? People tell me I should write my life story but for some reason it doesn't seem right and I have never managed to start it yet.



I suppose a good artist is a motivated artist. Doesn't sound like you feel motivated......yet.  :Smile:

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## canuck

> To boost my ego and supply words for others to argue about, or to record forever the mundanities of my strange life? People tell me I should write my life story but for some reason it doesn't seem right and I have never managed to start it yet.


That's it, the perfect birthday gift!  Everyone, pens and paper to Gleber2's Lighthouse so that he can begin work on his memoirs.

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## Kingetter

> R U talking about standard of literacy or standard of literature lol. Where are the masterpieces of today and will the masterpieces of tomorrow be written in text speak?
> Unfortunately, human standards in all aspects of the arts can only reflect the reality it is created in and human standards, ethically, morally and in every other way are plummeting to depths never before seen. Our decadence will always be represented in our literature and I cannot see either improving.


We've seen how literature (say comics) written as fiction becomes to a degree, reality later on. Accident or whatever - it has happened.  My premise is that if we recognise that now, should we not safeguard the future as well as we are able to, by moderating (hmm! should I be using that word?) what we write lest it has detrimental effects on the future? I guess I'm thinking morality, but hopefully more than that.  You wrote "Our decadence will always be represented in our literature". That being the case, should we not aspire to better ourselves, even in literature and present a better picture to our descendants?  Should we leave a legacy to them that we ourselves can not be proud of?

The subject of ownership springs to mind here for me.  One belief (which in principle if not practice) support is that we do not own things during our lifetimes, but merely act as stewards who's job is to maintain and improve so there is something worthwhile to pass on as the heritage.

If I can go to my grave believing I've passed on something worthwhile, decent, and a better reflection on myself and fellow creatures, then my life was not in vain.

(Steps down from soapbox & heads for a caffeine fix!)

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## Gleber2

> We've seen how literature (say comics) written as fiction becomes to a degree, reality later on. Accident or whatever - it has happened. My premise is that if we recognise that now, should we not safeguard the future as well as we are able to, by moderating (hmm! should I be using that word?) what we write lest it has detrimental effects on the future? I guess I'm thinking morality, but hopefully more than that. You wrote "Our decadence will always be represented in our literature". That being the case, should we not aspire to better ourselves, even in literature and present a better picture to our descendants? Should we leave a legacy to them that we ourselves can not be proud of?
> 
> The subject of ownership springs to mind here for me. One belief (which in principle if not practice) support is that we do not own things during our lifetimes, but merely act as stewards who's job is to maintain and improve so there is something worthwhile to pass on as the heritage.
> 
> If I can go to my grave believing I've passed on something worthwhile, decent, and a better reflection on myself and fellow creatures, then my life was not in vain.
> 
> (Steps down from soapbox & heads for a caffeine fix!)


I now see where you are coming from. If fiction can become true, write good fiction.

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## Kingetter

And you said it in 8 words!  Admirable.

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## canuck

> R U talking about standard of literacy or standard of literature lol. Where are the masterpieces of today and will the masterpieces of tomorrow be written in text speak?
> Unfortunately, human standards in all aspects of the arts can only reflect the reality it is created in and human standards, ethically, morally and in every other way are plummeting to depths never before seen. Our decadence will always be represented in our literature and I cannot see either improving.


Several issues getting mixed into the soup here.

Initially I think the discussion was around guidelines for literature suitable for caithness.org. I cannot assume, but I would expect that Gleber2 is okay with the notion that all literature is not suitable for all venues.

In a broader framework the suitableness of anything is determined by that society.

As to the decadence of our society, sure literature must reflect that. That does not mean any individual or any group of individuals such as the org need to accept that as something they find helpful or even want to read. This is a volunteer organization, not an enforced confinement.

But just as the literature of the day should reflect the decadence, it should also reflect the profound hope that exists within the context of the depravity. That I think is the gift we have to offer to the future. We have the opportunity to express the occasions of hope we see or experience within the day and age in which we live.

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## Kingetter

When Saveman withdrew his item he excercised his right to do so - I see no connection with censorship in that. 
I feel that whatever conditions apply to the 'publishing' of literary work should not be of dual standards but just be appropriate, by which I mean suitable. The opinion of suitability may differ from person to person, but surely we can have an acceptable 'bottom line'  a 'common denominator' which does not present the present as totally depraved.
Canuck wrote -
"But just as the literature of the day should reflect the decadence, it should also reflect the profound hope that exists within the depravity. That I think is the gift we have to offer to the future. We have the opportunity to express the occasions of hope we see or experience within the day and age in which we live."
I don't feel it necessary for literature to 'reflect the decadence' unless it also balances it with the good. Hopefully, it will be that good which is carried forward so future generations might think better of us. I don't actually see it as a gift - more a duty or responsibility.

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## Gleber2

How, one wonders, would a budding Joyce or De Sade or D.H.Lawrence be received by the Org? Most would consider their works to be unsuitable on this Forum I believe. To the general literary world their work is considered exceptional and quite acceptable. What, then, are the criteria which org literature must fulfil to be considered suitable and who would be the judges.

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## canuck

Perhaps this is something that needs to be worked out with the writers and the administration.  My understanding is that this is not to be a section of entertainment, but rather for reflection and critique by fellow writers.  Sure some of us might read their stuff, but if we are not writing I am not sure that we have much input as we really are not part of the creative group.  I keep refering to myself as an outsider here because I am not a writer.  Well, okay the weekly sermon, but none of you want that posted.  I will stick to reading books and being part of a discussion on the text we have chosen.

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## Kingetter

Question:  What is this Board for?
Answer: Literature, 'home-grown and 'imported'.
Scope: At this point, please look at the Photography and Recipe Boards.

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## golach

> Agreed. I have PMd him, having also received it, and am sorry he felt he had to remove it. Hope we're not going to have censorship by reader.


I am going to be the devils advocate here, I believe there should be some form of censorship but by the writer, CCWS is not just any old open forum, there are standards to be up held.
With no form of self censorship we would get a clerical form of anarchy.
One mans meat is another mans poison, it is the same with all forms of expression, be it literary or musical or dare I say political / religious tastes or persuasions

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## Kingetter

And of course you are right about censorship, by the writer, who's responsibility it is to follow the rules of the Forum. 
I would hope this also makes this part of the Forum more enjoyable and worthwhile.

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