# General > General >  Wick Academy Development Fund

## Bill Fernie

The thread on this topic has been removed following a contact by a committee member representing the fund.  

Due to certain allegations and suggestions contained in some posts the possibility of legal action has been raised.

We would ask that if posting on this topic care is taken not to make unsubstantiated comments about the fund, its members and the income of the fund.

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## superted

Oh the drama continues....someone's behind is getting twitchy!!!!

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## Alice in Blunderland

Its just a pity that the same person couldn't take five minutes out of their time to post some information on the same pages to put one or two minds at ease.

The possibility of legal action........................  ::

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## gollach

"unsubstantiated comments".......it was the lack of published material by the fund that gave rise to these comments in the first place.

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## Tubthumper

So there IS a committee? Oh I do hope any legal action gets heard in Wick Sherrif Court!

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## DeHaviLand

Maybe someone on this secretive committee will realise that what is needed is openness and answers rather than legal threats. Or does that seem a forlorn hope? All charities are supposed to be publically accountable, that doesn't seem to be the case here. Come on WADF, tell the people the truth. If you dont want to tell us who is on this committee, just tell us why you dont want anyone to know!

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## Tubthumper

I'd rather just know how much is in the fund.
By my calculations, the £120 000 that WE have raised should draw matching funding from Highland, SFA and Lottery funding sources to around half a million pounds or £500 000. 
That should pay for at least 2 properly-drained, well-turfed pitches with a 4-room changing facility including cafeteria, all nicley constructed and properly serviced. 
Alternatively it could pay for a wonderfully-appointed SFA standard complex for Wick Academy FC, with all bells and whistles to allow community sports development. Like what Ross County have got, but smaller.
As we can't discuss any controversial aspects of the WADF (a charitable fund rasing money for the benefit of the people of Wick and environs), we can at least discuss what we will do with our money once we have it.

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## riggerboy

now i`m really interested, why if a committe has nothing to hide would it contact a local website and talk of leagl actions,??????????????


there is now a deep seeded mistrust for said committe, 


bigger shovel required the need to dig deeper has arisen, 

if the org is frightened then maybe the papers will indeedy take heedy,


o yes the gallows will await anyone who has given rise or is part of the aforementioned ,

i think we should employ the rico act on this one, 

what do you think folks, pitchforks and burning torches at dawn, remember no guns

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## NickInTheNorth

Maybe someone should contact a local councillor and ask for their assistance in getting to the bottom of this matter...

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## Tubthumper

Or an MP or MSP. Or maybe wait till the OSCR and Police have finished their investigations?
In the meantime, I've sent my enquiry letter politely asking for the information which they're required to provide by law, to the WADF at 16 Thurso Street, Wick Caithness KW1 7LF: have you?

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## pegasus

> we can at least discuss what we will do with our money once we have it.


*Where is it then?*

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## old dad

Tubthumper 

I look forward to hearing how you get on with your request to Mr Carter for information but don't hold your breath!

Doing a bit more digging and I understand the following are part of the secretive WADF committee - J Gunn, A Carter, W Wydmuch and Billy More.  Does anyone  know any others involved in looking after our money for all these years?

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## Tubthumper

*I was just checking what I (or any other reasonable person) would have to do if we were to become a trustee of charitable funds,  money that members of a community donate towards a good cause, in the belief that it will be managed properly and used for the said good cause. 
*

*I suppose the term 'Trustee' kind of sums it up. But the OSCR publish the following information, just so we know what a trustee has to do.
*

*General duties* 

 A charity trustee must:
*1.    Act in the interest of the charity:* trustees should put  the interests of their charity before their own interests or those of  any other person or organisation.
*2.    Operate in a manner consistent with the charitys  purposes:* trustees should carry out their duties in accordance  with their governing document.
*3.    Act with due care and diligence:* trustees should take  such care of their charitys affairs as is reasonable to expect of  someone who is managing the affairs of another person.
*4.    Ensure that the charity complies with the provisions of  the 2005 Act* *and other relevant legislation.*

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## Tubthumper

Received no information back from WADF at 16 Thurso St Wick KW1 5LF yet.

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## glaikit

> Received no information back from WADF at 16 Thurso St Wick KW1 5LF yet.


You've fair got the bit between your teeth now Tubs.  We're all waiting with baited breath..   It's like something out of The Godfather.   ::  

Seriously, agree with everything you've said.  Hang on in there and don't be pressurised, although knowing your usual posts, I don't think that will be an issue.

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## pegasus

> Received no information back from WADF at 16 Thurso St Wick KW1 5LF yet.


 maybe there having a whip round to buy a stamp?

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## gollach

Jamie Stone and the Groat are now asking questions about WADF - check the front page today.

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## DeHaviLand

Good article, but long overdue. And I got quoted in the Groat! At last, fame is mine  :Grin:

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## Tubthumper

They're happy at the outcome of the OSCR report and are in the process of acquiring land in 2005. So that's OK then.

Anyone got a copy of the 2005 OSCR report?

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## Tubthumper

I wonder, when the people of Wick get access to the WADF funds and a complex gets built, should a sports bar be included in the build? 

A great community asset in many places I've been, but a possible threat to the few existing clubs?. 

A dilemma. We should ponder it while we wait for information and money. ::

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## Tubthumper

The post's been and guess what...

No response to my request (as required in law) for information on income, constitution and trustees) yet from WADF at 16 Thurso Street Wick KW1 5LF.

Maybe tomorrow, eh? :Smile:

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## AllanT

Tubthumper, I have read with great interest this thread and your efforts in trying to get to the truth as regards what has become of the £100k + that was collected by this committee from the people of Caithness through the promises of new football stadiums, sports centres etc. 

I was part of a group that tried and failed to get some answers 5-6 years ago.  One thing I would say concerning your request for information to the Thurso street address is that when a similar request was submitted years ago from memory we eventually got a reply advising there would be a charge to cover admin costs before anything is sent.  I think the charities regulator allow such a charge as long as it is reasonable!  So you can probably prepare for something similar.

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## gollach

Tubthumper - did you put a postal order in the envelope with your request?

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## Tubthumper

Gollach - No postal order included, I wouldn't expect a local charity to pull a stunt like that! 

Allan T - I gather that you never managed to find out what was going on 5 or 6 years ago? Did anyone ever see the report the OSCR made?

Anyway, guess what... you're right, nothing in the post from WADF today. But there's always tomorrow! :Smile:

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## Tubthumper

Post's just been, nothing again. _[Sighs]_ :Frown: .  But I notice that this thread, with its mere 24 posts, has had over 2700 views. That says to me that a lot of people are interested. And that the WADF 'committee' should be paying attention to what their community is thinking.

So rather than just me banging on about it every day, why doesn't everyone who wants the WADF to reveal what it's doing put a little post on here. Just 'I want to know' would be good.  :Smile: 

Never mind being critical, let's just see how many orgers are actually interested in the £100 000+ that _we all_ donated for the good of _our_ community. 

(And  don't be scared, I'm sure they're good guys really)

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## DeHaviLand

Is there a time limit whereby they're supposed to give you this info Tubs? i'd suggest they're going to ignore it for as long as they possibly can, given the track record they have.
Mark me down as having an interest.

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## macbreeza

I would like to know!  :Grin:

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## Crackeday

I want to know' ::

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## WICKER10

I would like to know to .
If after a certain time there is No reply from WADF the office of the OSCR will be able to take the matter up on your behalf and get the required answers.

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## Metalattakk

Mark me down as an interested observer.

I'm surprised they have allowed this situation to develop, after all, if they are going to be as obfuscatory about this issue as they would appear, then no wonder people come up with 'worst-case' scenarios.

If there's nothing to hide, there's nothing to fear from informing the public.

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## starlight express

Myself and members of my family have purchased hundreds of pounds worth of WADF tickets in the past, and we would also like to know whats to hide.

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## Alice in Blunderland

I would like to know more as I have also bought many of these tickets. 

Its a bit rich that someone from this organisation is watching the org to see what is being posted ( just post something a little close to the bone and Bill will soon get a phone call to prove it ) but will not take five minutes to log on and put people right on what has happened or not to their donations.

The shroud of secrecy just adds to the air of mystery surrounding this organisation.  ::

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## pat

Yes Alice it certainly makes you wonder what is going on - everything should be open and above board but having things secret and not answering questions makes me want to question any answers that may be forthcoming and want to know the answer to all and any questions put to the SECRET committee.

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## squidge

I want to know too - when i lived in Caithness i too contributed to htis fund.

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## old dad

> Yes Alice it certainly makes you wonder what is going on - everything should be open and above board but having things secret and not answering questions makes me want to question any answers that may be forthcoming and want to know the answer to all and any questions put to the SECRET committee.


I remember a few years back when Gunn was promising a new stadium/sports complex, questions were asked about whether land had been purchased,outline planning permission obtained, funding applied for, the cost of maintenance considered etc etc no answers were ever provided and anyone asking these questions were accused of being trouble makers.  Years on and still no answers but plenty of money collected. ::

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## Tubthumper

Nothing in the post again.  ::

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## Corrie 3

Just a thought here.....has anyone made a complaint to the Police at all?...I am sure the Serious Fraud Squad would be interested if there is a hidden agenda.

 ::  ::

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## Tubthumper

Amazing news! The overdue WADF accounts have been registered as 'checked' by the OSCR on 9th July 2010. 

The entry on the OSCR website shows income of £12 017 for the 2009 period. That means that the fund has raised (as stated income to OSCR, which might not include expenses and remuneration to individuals) *£109 916* since 2005! And bearing in mind that it's been fundraising as a charity since 2002 (and giving nothing out whatsoever!), there must be almost double that in the pot! Wow, £200 000 for Wick Sports!

Amazing the effect that the org can have, eh? 

However, are we any further forward? We still have no idea what is going on with our money.

We know you're watching this thread, WADF, we have a right to know what you are doing with our money, and £200 000 is a _lot_ of our money, so why not make a good news story out of it? Post on here, write to the Groat, have an open meeting, but for goodness sake STOP treating your community with such utter contempt!!

[EDIT: And remember the reason this is being pursued is because the Wick community were upset and unhappy at being robbed of their Gala charity money, and wish to ensure their donations to WADF are being properly managed - bluntly telling people it is none of their business does NOT inspire confidence!!]

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## WICKER10

> Amazing news! The overdue WADF accounts have been registered as 'checked' by the OSCR on 9th July 2010. 
> 
> The entry on the OSCR website shows income of £12 017 for the 2009 period. That means that the fund has raised (as stated income to OSCR, which might not include expenses and remuneration to individuals) *£109 916* since 2005! And bearing in mind that it's been fundraising as a charity since 2002 (and giving nothing out whatsoever!), there must be almost double that in the pot! Wow, £200 000 for Wick Sports!
> 
> Amazing the effect that the org can have, eh? 
> 
> However, are we any further forward? We still have no idea what is going on with our money.
> 
> We know you're watching this thread, WADF, we have a right to know what you are doing with our money, and £200 000 is a _lot_ of our money, so why not make a good news story out of it? Post on here, write to the Groat, have an open meeting, but for goodness sake STOP treating your community with such utter contempt!!
> ...


Well said i do not think we will get a Statement from WADF any time soon going by there Track record and comments made by Jackie Gunn in last weeks Groat

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## pegasus

Whens the agm for this bunch?

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## Tubthumper

> Whens the agm for this bunch?


You're kidding, right? :Smile:

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## pat

Are all groups/charities not meant to have open AGM which are advertised, most have this in their constitution - wonder when they last held one?

Anyone able to check the old copies of the 'Groat' and 'Courier' to find when they last did have an AGM or EGM for WADF, or in fact any meeting for WADF.


perhaps it was held in secret in a telephone box in the middle of the night

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## WICKER10

> Are all groups/charities not meant to have open AGM which are advertised, most have this in their constitution - wonder when they last held one?
> 
> Anyone able to check the old copies of the 'Groat' and 'Courier' to find when they last did have an AGM or EGM for WADF, or in fact any meeting for WADF.
> 
> 
> perhaps it was held in secret in a telephone box in the middle of the night


Not a Telephone Box may be a *T*axi office ! ::

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## sandyr1

What surprises me is that with all the CHEQUES(a Pun) and balances, and the accountability nowadays, it is difficult to understand how a 'charitable organization' can conduct their business in such a way....I thought that particularly in the UK, there is an atmosphere of openess.
And if not, they could be stripped of their Management of same.

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## ducati

> perhaps it was held in secret in a telephone box in the middle of the night


in Portgower  ::

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## Tubthumper

If someone could get a copy of the WADF constitution, it would be simple to find out what the arrangements for managing the fund are. But we can't. Because _apparently_ they don't respond to requests for such information promptly, if at all!

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## Phill

> in Portgower


It appears to me there is a lot more truth, facts and transparency in the Portgower thread!

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## glaikit

I don't think the inhabitants of Portgower would stand for it  ::   Their reputation's already in tatters, give them some credit.

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## W.A.D.F. (SC032787)

> If someone could get a copy of the WADF constitution, it would be simple to find out what the arrangements for managing the fund are. But we can't. Because _apparently_ they don't respond to requests for such information promptly, if at all!


Tubthumper - I take it that you are still waiting patiently..not, for the documents that you requested? Why not try delivering your letter by hand or by recorded delivery? or did you do that already?

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## WICKER10

If the WADF do not reply to a request with in 14 working days you just need to report it to the oscr and they can take action under sect 23 of the charity act and have a lot of powers

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## Tubthumper

> Tubthumper - I take it that you are still waiting patiently..not, for the documents that you requested? Why not try delivering your letter by hand or by recorded delivery? or did you do that already?


I must be a half-wit. It never even occurred to me (much like the need to pay an 'admin charge') that a query to a reputable local charity would require proof of posting, so I just stuck a first-class stamp on and lobbed it in the post box. 

As I've still had no response, I might be better to send a recorded one. Although proof of postage is often not considered proof of delivery, it will make any subsequent communications with OSCR as straightforward as possible.

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## gollach

Since WADF is a charity, you could enclose an envelope and a stamp so they don't have to pay postage to supply the information you requested.

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## Tubthumper

> Since WADF is a charity, you could enclose an envelope and a stamp so they don't have to pay postage to supply the information you requested.


Great idea! :Smile:

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## Tubthumper

away on hols so no update yet.

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## DeHaviLand

> away on hols so no update yet.


This is far more important than your holiday. I suggest you return home forthwith.  :: 












 :Wink:

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## veekay

Is this the start of things or is it a different group of prominent business men wanting to improve things?

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/wickacadem...st%20news2.htm

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## WICKER10

> Is this the start of things or is it a different group of prominent business men wanting to improve things?
> 
> http://web.ukonline.co.uk/wickacadem...st%20news2.htm


Seems to be the same Jackie Gunn and company that have the WADF on the go.
Mr Gunn is still not willing to have a AGM by all accounts.
Is it not Strange that the Weekly draws for all the tickets were held in a Private office all the other football clubs hold there weekly draws in a Hotel or bar in which the public can see what is going on.

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## Amy-Winehouse

> Is this the start of things or is it a different group of prominent business men wanting to improve things?
> 
> http://web.ukonline.co.uk/wickacadem...st%20news2.htm


 
That was a very interesting read , I was especially intrigued by the WA for change articles, I think the club has come on leaps & bounds since 2003 - it appears to be respected in the community & many fans are re-appearing at the Harmsworth due to the style WAFC play in & the fact the previous chairman has been riddanced.

Still hasnt explained where the money went though ? New car every year ? It does look shady to an outsider I must admit

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## pegasus

> I must be a half-wit. .


yes indeed mrs thimble but youre doing a good job on this isue at least

note that the gunn bunch may refuse to sign for the recorded delivery letter

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## veekay

I may have missed it somewhere but has anyone been in touch with OSCR about this whole debacle.  Maybe they know something we don't and if they don't know they can find out.

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## Tubthumper

hey greetings all from the sooth. speaking to ma tv mates here, can anyone remember when the last time caithness was on the bbc watchdog programme?

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## RB 14-20

> away on hols so no update yet.


 Mr & Mrs W ???

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## Phill

> hey greetings all from the sooth. speaking to ma tv mates here, can anyone remember when the last time caithness was on the bbc watchdog programme?



Do you think Caithness is ready for Transvestites?

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## Tubthumper

whats this mr & mrs w about? i cant see much on this phone is someone taking the mick or is it the wadf makin threats?

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## Metalattakk

> whats this mr & mrs w about? i cant see much on this phone is someone taking the mick or is it the wadf makin threats?


Dinna let trivialities get in the way of your objectivity. You're the one with the power here, remember.

Get your stick and keep poking the sleeping dog. Poke it hard, and often. OK, maybe the dog will object and try to bite you. So what? It can't justify sleeping for so long. Poke it 'til it reacts. Poke it 'til it _squeals_.

In fact, poke it 'til it gives answers.

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## ducati

> Dinna let trivialities get in the way of your objectivity. You're the one with the power here, remember.
> 
> Get your stick and keep poking the sleeping dog. Poke it hard, and often. OK, maybe the dog will object and try to bite you. So what? It can't justify sleeping for so long. Poke it 'til it reacts. Poke it 'til it _squeals_.
> 
> In fact, poke it 'til it gives answers.


This post reported to the SSPCA  ::

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## Metalattakk

> This post reported to the SSPCA


 :Grin: 

Should have maybe reported it to the Scottish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Metaphors too.  :Wink:

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## Tubthumper

> Dinna let trivialities get in the way of your objectivity. You're the one with the power here, remember.
> Get your stick and keep poking the sleeping dog. Poke it hard, and often. OK, maybe the dog will object and try to bite you. So what? It can't justify sleeping for so long. Poke it 'til it reacts. Poke it 'til it _squeals_.
> In fact, poke it 'til it gives answers.


I actually like that metaphor, even if you did over-egg it a bit. ::

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## Tubthumper

Can someone update me please? Didn't get the Courier this week, was there something in it about charity fiddlers getting captured?

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## Turquoise

Have you had a reply yet, Tubs?

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## Tubthumper

Nothing yet. Expected something when I got back but sadly no. :Frown:

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## gollach

Does the charities regulatory body set a time period by which a response should be given to an enquiry like his?

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## Tubthumper

I think it's 14 days, but I can't find the reference. Seeing as I've no proof of postage for the request of 5th July, I'll leave it till 14 days after I sent the recorded letter (with SAE enclosed - but no postal order). I assume that £2 postage and an A4 envelope will be enough to cover a copy of their constitution and accounts.

The citizens of the county want to know what's going on with their cash, and bearing in mind _yet another_ charity fundraising abuse in Wick (but no attendant hoo-haa yet) we might be better to hurry it along.  ::

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## gollach

Did you check online to see if the recorded delivery request was signed for?  They might have refused it.

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## Tubthumper

> Did you check online to see if the recorded delivery request was signed for?  They might have refused it.


Didn't even know you could do that! More info please?

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## gollach

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/p...diaId=83900761

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## W.A.D.F. (SC032787)

Tubthumper - Glad to see that you have now sent a recorded delivery letter to WADF. Maybe you will get something back now.

PS - Just had a thought...If you print the code on the retained part of the "signed for" label on your next post on this thread, then we can all check on the Post Office website to see if they (A. Carter?) have received and signed for it.

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## Tubthumper

The Archer - even though you're a newcomer, your point is a good 'un. After all, it's ALL those who have contributed to this enormous fund (and all the people of Wick who keep finding they've been duped out of  charity donations) that demand to know what's going on with it.  :Grin: 

The number is AG911842355GB



_For any strangers viewing this thread, life is not always this complicated in Wick. Not all our charitable institutions make it difficult to discover what they're doing with our dosh!_

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## Bobinovich

OK so the intended recipient was out today when it was delivered - hopefully they'll collect it from the PO tomorrow morning...

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## Phill

> OK so the intended recipient was out today when it was delivered - hopefully they'll collect it from the PO tomorrow morning...


Well well. If they had bin followin' this thread (apparently / allegedly like other members of the committee threatenin' ter go legal) they would have bin expectin' the letter.

I think it's rather rude they weren't on the doorstep waitin' fer it.

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## Tubthumper

Of course they could be on holiday. If that's the case could the WADF representative reading this please send me a PM, and I'll arrange a different delivery address. :Smile:

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## gollach

> OK so the intended recipient was out today when it was delivered - hopefully they'll collect it from the PO tomorrow morning...


It's been delivered!!
You can also click on the Proof of Delivery to see who signed for it.   ::

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## Phill

'am on the edge of me seat now. This is more 'citin than the lottery!

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## pat

Congratulations on getting your letter signed for acceptance.
Was it a child or a spiders signature on acceptance?
Now the long wait for an acceptable answer, as per the requirements of OSCR, hope you do not have to wait the full time or end up having to contact OSCR due to their non-compliance with the correct procedure.
Eagerly awaiting the outcome of this next step in process.

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## Tubthumper

The miracles of technology!  :Smile: 

OK, just to summarise now we're getting somewhere:

The citizens of Wick and environs have found, in a number of cases recently, that money they've donated to charitable causes has not ended up where it should have. They and others in the wider community are angry and upset about this and want to be assured that all charity funds are being managed properly.

Wick Academy Development Fund was established as a charity to raise funds to build a sports complex, for the people of Wick & environs. It has no connection with Wick Academy Football Club (the only extant entity with an associated title) which has indeed found it necessary to formally disassociate itself from the fund and which has gained no development support from it whatsoever.

Those who established the fund put great energy into raising funds and have apparently amassed in the region of £200 000 thus far. For this the community is very grateful. However, in the current economic climate and taking into account the need to ensure any money that is available is used properly (ie combined with Scottish Government, HC and lottery funds to ensure top-class sporting facilities are added to the proposed new school) it is crucial that information on this fund is in the public domain.

The perceived problems with WADF arise from the fact that no information has been made available to the community by the WADF 'committee' (or other management arrangement) on:

Precisely how much money is in the fundHow the funds have been raisedWho is involved in managing the fund, the means of selection, and the competence and probity of those involvedHow the fund is managedWhat the plans for the fund areWhat expenses are involved in running the fundWhat interactions have taken place with other interested bodiesAny progress made on the stated intent of the registered charityWhether this fund can be accessed for other charitable purposes
Previous requests for information on the fund have not been readily responded to. There is evidence that reasonable requests for financial assistance (for associated causes) have been rejected out of hand. The submission required by statute to the Office of the Scottish Charities Regulator was significantly late and resulted in OSCR compliance action being initiated. Such communications that have been made have not inspired confidence in the management arrangements for the fund. These and other issues have given rise to 'Reasonable Doubt' within the community that the WADF is being managed appropriately.

The response to the most recent request for information in accordance with s.23 (1) (a) and (b) of the Charities and Trustee Investment (Scotland) Act 2005 (made by a member of the public who has agreed to waive his anonymity for the greater good of the community) will be made available to all interested members of the community via this medium. 

It has always been most desirable for appropriate access for members of the community and those who have contributed, to information on the fund though discussion with the WADF 'committee', at an open meeting, AGM or EGM, according to the provisions made for such in the WADF constitution, or as a separate arrangement. The aim of the ongoing web forum thread is to allow members of the community to contribute to the process of developing public access to information on the community's money, as held by the WADF.

It should also be noted that (bearing in mind recent problems with charities management in our County) local, regional and National press, TV companies, the OSCR and duly elected members of the local council and Scottish and UK Governments are interested in the effective management of this substantial fund.

Thanks are due in advance to the members of the WADF, whoever they are, for raising these funds on behalf of the community. :Smile:

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## Phill

Very well put Tubs.

Now I think a statement like that deserves a properly formed reply..........

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## Amy-Winehouse

> Very well put Tubs.
> 
> Now I think a statement like that deserves a properly formed reply..........


Sorry to be negative but you wont get one.....

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## Tubthumper

> Sorry to be negative but you wont get one.....


But these people have put huge energy into raising money for us! Surely they'll be _proud_ to have their efforts recognised!

Come on now Amy, be positive! :Smile:

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## Tubthumper

Things take a more sinister twist!

Just been speaking to a workmate in the pub. He tells me that 'Some belligerent-sounding guy phoned your number, looking for Tubthumper. Very strong local accent, sounded pretty mad, wouldn't leave his name but insisted I told you the message was for Tubthumper'. I assume this was a person representing WADF.

He couldn't remember what day it was, but it was the week before last (12th-16th), ie before I sent the recorded letter but after the standard post was sent. So perhaps the WADF received it after all.

Strange thing to do, phone a guy's work leaving cryptic messages. A thinner skinned chap might have got worried and think there were veiled threats being made. 

Me? I'm cool, I know what we're doing is the right thing for the community. Maybe when I'm back at work on monday I'll get the phone records checked, maybe have the call traced. And if there's nothing to hide, there's no reason to be afraid, is there?!

It's good to keep in touch!

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## Tubthumper

I must check whether it's 14 _working_ days or just 14 days for a response. :Smile:

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## old dad

[QUOTE=Tubthumper;740209]Things take a more sinister twist!

 'Some belligerent-sounding guy phoned your number, looking for Tubthumper. Very strong local accent, sounded pretty mad, wouldn't leave his name but insisted I told you the message was for Tubthumper'. I assume this was a person representing WADF.

Unfortunately Tubthumper this type of intimidation is what can be expected by certain people involved with WADF and obviously supported by the others involved.  Hopefully you will soon be able to publish their names.

As far as your last question 14 _working_days or just 14 days if it is 14 "working" days then you might have a long wait if you are looking for a reply from the chairman ::

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## gollach

> Just been speaking to a workmate in the pub. He tells me that 'Some belligerent-sounding guy phoned your number, looking for Tubthumper. Very strong local accent, sounded pretty mad, wouldn't leave his name but insisted I told you the message was for Tubthumper'. I assume this was a person representing WADF.


Presume that you had put your real name on the letter so why would any person calling from WADF refer to you by Org username? Doesn't make sense.

It is odd to be contacted at work though.

----------


## Tubthumper

Gollach, why indeed! If they knew my name and where I worked, why bother with my nickname? It may have frustrated the caller somewhat, because the guy he was talking to hadn't a clue what he was on about and has difficulty with the local accent. 

"There's no-one called Bob Hunter here..."

Perhaps it wasn't the WADF at all, maybe it was just some random Wicker phoning for the craic.

Anyway I've had enough of this enquiry, I'm giving it up.

----------


## Metalattakk

> Anyway I've had enough of this enquiry, I'm giving it up.


???  :: 

Please clarify.

----------


## Tubthumper

Only kidding!! I'm not giving up.  By golly, the org is really slow tonight, anyone know why?

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Only kidding!! I'm not giving up.



Wheeeew thought you had thrown in the towel too easily there.  :: 

For all you know maybe the postman has a nice letter for you with all the answers on Monday.  ::

----------


## gollach

Guessing the Org is slow cos of the Wick Gala photos going on? Personally, I was hoping for more County Show pics cos I saw Bill snapping away in different places but none of those pics are here yet  :Frown: 

But I digress.

I was going to say that I had a look at the wording of the Act and it says "14 days", not working days.

----------


## Tubthumper

Cheers for that Gollach! So we'll be expecting the reply by 6th August then? I must get a new scanner, the one I have is about knackered.

I forgot the quiz will be on tonight, that will be adding to the slowness of the org.

Old Dad, the phone call may have been an innocent mistake. But I do wonder what kind of intimidation tactics the local hoodlums (and I obviously don't include representatives of the WADF in that group) typically employ in Wick? 

Ones I remember from elsewhere include the 'neds slow drive-by, with added glower', the 'personal mail delivery 'We know where you live' approach, the 'spreading of nasty rumours' ploy and the old favourite 'Brick through window in the night'.

Surely not round here though? :Smile:

----------


## Phill

> Surely not round here though?


Cue severed horses head!  ::  ::  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

Recent attempts at arson weren't too successful though. ::

----------


## Tubthumper

Seeing as the first hole has been dug for the new Halkirk sports complex, I reckon its long past time the Wick one was started. After all, the fundraising started way before Mr Sinclair of Halkirk made his massive donation, and Wick is 10 times the size of Halkirk!

I'm interested in how the WADF go/ went about fundraising for this complex which (after 'thousands of chairman miles'), was 'near' in 2005 - or so the Wick Academy Football Club AGM was informed! 

Anyone got any info on the A-T tickets they used to sell, or any other fundraising income like car boot sales, raffles, legacies or business/ personal donations? 

Feel free to post here or pm me if you like. (But keep it objective - no personal stuff, rumour or speculation)

Cheers!  :Smile: 

[Edit - that's 100 posts and 7700 views! People ARE interested!!]

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

I see the letter was delivered on 24th.  :Grin: 

Is that now fourteen days from this date  :: 

They could also log onto the org within that fourteen days and let folks out there know what is happening and what the future holds for this fund.

----------


## Tubthumper

My mistake, you're right Alice, the reply has to be with me by the 7th of August.

It would be nice to have a post on here, or something in the Courier/ Groat. Just to put our minds at rest!  :Smile: 

(By the way, cheers for the PMs everyone, keep them coming!)

----------


## Tubthumper

> Wheeeew thought you had thrown in the towel too easily there.   For all you know maybe the postman has a nice letter for you with all the answers on Monday.


No joy Alice, no letter today. :Frown:

----------


## riggerboy

i think hell will freeze over and us scots will warm to the english before ye get at letter on time,


head wall banging head wall banging, or something like that

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> No joy Alice, no letter today.



Think positive.  :Wink: 

Tomorrow is only a day away as the words of the song say. :: 


It will take them a few days to get the wording right and all the details set out and printed off to make sure nothings missed.They wouldn't want you to receive the wrong information now............ would they.  ::  




 or any information if they could get away with it

----------


## Tubthumper

I can't believe that's 600 posts since this morning! There really is a lot of interest in this thread (and not just from within the county either)!

Lots of good info coming in, it's all written down and blogged just in case something happens to me...  ::

----------


## ducati

> I can't believe that's 600 posts since this morning! There really is a lot of interest in this thread (and not just from within the county either)!
> 
> Lots of good info coming in, it's all written down and blogged just in case something happens to me...


What? like you get pished and forget who you are  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

From what I'm hearing, WADF fundraising has been going on for more than 10 years, spread its tentacles far and wide into the North Sea, was particularly strongly supported in its early days (before people started getting suspicious at the secrecy and lack of action) and apparently has never released any cash, so there could be more than £1/4 million available. 
£250 000 for a sports centre. Wow! :: 

Of course, there is no information available to us on payments made to individuals for actually running/ administering the fund, or what expenses were involved. 

But seeing as it's a local charity, run by volunteers with minimal need for expenses and no requirement for assets like offices or vehicles, the cash raised should be pretty much intact plus interest.

The only problem I can see is the bunfight over which sports it gets spent on! ::

----------


## Tubthumper

'Signed for' letter arrived at 10:25 this morning, dated 24th July.
*
Application for Copies of WADF Documents*
I write in response to your letter dated 5th July regarding the above which I collected from Wick Post Office at 8.00am today by 'signed for' delivery.

I note that you have enclosed a S.A.E. with £2 postage - Please note that we make a standard charge of £10.00 for the supply of these documents.

If you still wish to receive copies of our documents, please send a cheque for £8.00 made payable to "Wick Academy Development Fund".

N.B. To date, the letter that you claimed to have sent to us on the 5th July still has not arrived.


Yours Sincerely

Andrew J Carter
Secretary

----------


## DeHaviLand

> 'Signed for' letter arrived at 10:25 this morning, dated 24th July.
> 
> *Application for Copies of WADF Documents*
> I write in response to your letter dated 5th July regarding the above which I collected from Wick Post Office at 8.00am today by 'signed for' delivery.
> 
> I note that you have enclosed a S.A.E. with £2 postage - Please note that we make a standard charge of £10.00 for the supply of these documents.
> 
> If you still wish to receive copies of our documents, please send a cheque for £8.00 made payable to "Wick Academy Development Fund".
> 
> ...


Ask for written confirmation of their charges Tubs. If its not in their constitution, they shouldn't be making any charge. Although, on reflection, you may want to do this after you've paid and received the documents.

----------


## gollach

Excellent.

----------


## Tubthumper

I'm skint. I'll have to set up a registered charity to raise the funds to get the information, on behalf of the community, on funds held by a registered charity working on behalf of the community.

Spare change anyone?  ::

----------


## Nacho

i bet WADF would like you to do a sponsored silence Tubs

----------


## Tubthumper

Thanks to everyone who offered financial assistance, I think we can push forward with this. 

I will send off the £8 cheque (by 'signed for' post again) tomorrow. 

WADF, if you can have the materials (constitution and audited accounts) available for sending directly back (as soon as the cheque's cleared obviously - can't be too careful when it's public money, can you) it would be much appreciated.

We'll be seeking a list of trustees next, so if you want to include that in the envelope and save further postage, it would be handy, and save time in the long run.  :Smile:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> We'll be seeking a list of trustees next, so if you want to include that in the envelope and save further postage, it would be handy, and save time in the long run.


Best send them twenty pound as this is now a second request and they will need to cover their costs for looking out this extra bit of information.  :Wink:   ::

----------


## glaikit

Mentioned this thread to someone the other day and was told that WADF has been investigated by the police before and no charges were brought, or wrong doing found.

Surely this can't be right?  Can anyone confirm/deny if this is true before Tubs spends his £8? ::

----------


## Tubthumper

> Mentioned this thread to someone the other day and was told that WADF has been investigated by the police before and no charges were brought, or wrong doing found.
> 
> Surely this can't be right?  Can anyone confirm/deny if this is true before Tubs spends his £8?


I'm not looking for wrongdoing, I'm just trying to find out what's in the fund, who's looking after it and doing stuff with it, what they're doing etc.

If they would come out into the open after all this time and money (and absolutely nothing to show for it!) and actually tell people, there would be no more speculation.

I've scraped the £8 together.

----------


## Tubthumper

Anyone got the Courier yet this morning? Is there a report or a letter on what the WADF are doing? 

Just to save me the trip to the Post Office.

----------


## tiger woods

> Anyone got the Courier yet this morning? Is there a report or a letter on what the WADF are doing? 
> 
> Just to save me the trip to the Post Office.


There's nothing in the Courier this morning.

----------


## Tubthumper

Cheers Tiger.

While we're (still) waiting for the WADF information, could local people with expertise in charity fundraising & management, sports centre design and project management, and the management of sports complexes please pm me.

[and I've emptied my inbox -again!]

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> There's nothing in the Courier this morning.


Jeez quick delivery of the courier to Windermere Florida Im impressed  ::   or did you check on line  ::   ::

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Cheers Tiger.
> 
> While we're (still) waiting for the WADF information, could local people with expertise in charity fundraising & management, sports centre design and project management, and the management of sports complexes please pm me.
> 
> [and I've emptied my inbox -again!]



pm sent  :Smile:

----------


## DeHaviLand

> There's nothing in the Courier this morning.


wow, nothing in the courier. Thats a bit strange, who's going to buy a newspaper with nothing in it?  :Wink:

----------


## gollach

> Anyone got the Courier yet this morning? Is there a report or a letter on what the WADF are doing? 
> 
> Just to save me the trip to the Post Office.


North of Scotland Newspapers are probably waiting for you to report on here first, just like they did last time  :Wink:

----------


## Tubthumper

Be fair now, so far, a letter asking for £8 is the sum total of progress on this, which isn't much to report on really.

The point where the WADF reveal their activities, the funds held on our behalf, and any sports complex plans they actually have will be the interesting bit!  :Smile:

----------


## Happy Guy

> Cheers Tiger.
> 
> While we're (still) waiting for the WADF information, could local people with expertise in charity fundraising & management, sports centre design and project management, and the management of sports complexes please pm me.
> 
> [and I've emptied my inbox -again!]


PM sent today

----------


## tiger woods

> Jeez quick delivery of the courier to Windermere Florida Im impressed  or did you check on line


 Have it delivered every week along with the Groat.

----------


## Tubthumper

I noticed a letter in the Courier from the Wick Pipe Band, pointing out that the latest charity fiddle to have occurred in the town had nothing to do with them. 

Dreadful to think that we sometimes can't trust folk who raise money for good causes. ::

----------


## Phill

> 'Signed for' letter arrived at 10:25 this morning, dated 24th July.
> *
> Application for Copies of WADF Documents*
> I write in response to your letter dated 5th July regarding the above which I collected from Wick Post Office at 8.00am today by 'signed for' delivery.
> 
> I note that you have enclosed a S.A.E. with £2 postage - Please note that we make a standard charge of £10.00 for the supply of these documents.
> 
> If you still wish to receive copies of our documents, please send a cheque for £8.00 made payable to "Wick Academy Development Fund".
> 
> ...



I've 'ad a rummage down the back of the sofa and found £1.36 and some lego, also found 39p and some ciggy filters in the landy I'm pullin apart.
So, I'll happily donate the £1.75 towards the cost. (providing you can send me a set of accounts showing your income and expenditure etc.)

----------


## Tubthumper

> I've 'ad a rummage down the back of the sofa and found £1.36 and some lego, also found 39p and some ciggy filters in the landy I'm pullin apart.
> So, I'll happily donate the £1.75 towards the cost. (providing you can send me a set of accounts showing your income and expenditure etc.)


We charge a standard £10 fee for this information...

----------


## Phill

> We charge a standard £10 fee for this information...



BUT......ohhhhhh......

----------


## Tubthumper

Never mind, Phill. I sold a part of my body and raised the £8. :Smile: 

Cheque sent this afternoon ('signed for' delivery again - I'll have to sell something else at this rate!), should arrive Wick on Friday at the latest, maybe picked up Saturday morning. Probably won't get banked till Monday, so cheque cleared by next Thursday, return of post by a week Saturday, or the Monday maybe? 

Unless they trust me and send the stuff right away before the cheque clears...

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Cheque sent this afternoon ('signed for' delivery again - I'll have to sell something else at this rate!), should arrive Wick on Friday at the latest, maybe picked up Saturday morning.



Are you going to be a nice Tubs and post the tracking number again so that we can check on the progress of the letter ?   :Grin:  

 Pretty please................. and if there is to be a charge for your effort in doing this to cover your electricity for the computer or any other unforeseen cost I am sure us nice kind people from the org will have a whip round to help you out with that.  :Wink:   ::

----------


## Tubthumper

Your wish is my command, Alice! *AG911852471GB*

Don't worry about the electricity; I am, after all, working for the benefit of the community.

I wish I had a working scanner handy, so you could all see the very nice WADF headed letter I received. At the bottom it states,
*
"Working For The Benefit Of The Community"*

Which makes it ironic that I'm having to go through all this palaver to find out, on behalf of the community, what is going on with £1/4 million of our dosh. :: 

Not to worry though, once it's all sorted out, I'll be able to claim the all the money back from the WADF. :Smile:

----------


## Tubthumper

> Are you going to be a nice Tubs...


I should point out that 'nice' is not a term normally associated with fully-indentured members of the Tubthumper cult. Our motto is 'Chaos Est Totus, Turbo Sulum, Nunquam Sileo'.

Evil-smelling, foul-mouthed, warped and habitually causing trouble. That's us.

And there are more of us around than you might think! ::

----------


## Tubthumper

My apolgies, I recently suggested that the WADF chairman had stated the sports complex was 'near' in 2005. I was just having a flick through my notes and found that he actually said that in 2002. Whoops!


So I'll just re-post the published information from the WAFC (that's our local semi-pro football club, with the same name but who have nothing to do with and receive no development funding from the WADF).(Mind you, no-one else receives any benefit from it either, do they?)


*"22/5/2002* Approx 30 members attended the club's AGM and         the main points are as follows -
               Chairman's Report - Mr Gunn believed that there was silverware         in the young team, and was confident that Darren Strong will be with         the club next season. The members were advised that the "Sports         complex" was near.


Elections - M/s Gunn and Carter returned unapposed.


Treasurer's Report - a/c's showed a profit compared to a small loss         last year. The improved financial position was largely down to the         Qualifying/Scottish cup run which attracted payments for each round         as well as extra gate money and TV income.


               AOCB - The rest of the meeting took the form of a heated debate over         the development fund and the lack of access for WAFC members to         information. Mr. Gunn confirmed membership of the development fund         was by invitation only and that this course had been agreed at a         meeting in January 2000. Opinions from the floor suggested that this         course of action was both illegal and un- constitutional. A proposal         that all WAFC members are automatically members of the Development         fund was carried without objection and Mr Gunn said a meeting of the         fund would be held shortly and they would consider this proposal."


I'll get a copy of the WAFC minutes for the later meeting where the then Chairman (Mr J Gunn) & Secretary (Mr A Carter) got turfed out, and put the relevant details on here as well.

----------


## katarina

> I should point out that 'nice' is not a term normally associated with fully-indentured members of the Tubthumper cult. Our motto is 'Chaos Est Totus, Turbo Sulum, Nunquam Sileo'.
> 
> Evil-smelling, foul-mouthed, warped and habitually causing trouble. That's us.
> 
> And there are more of us around than you might think!


sometimes it's necessary

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> I should point out that 'nice' is not a term normally associated with fully-indentured members of the Tubthumper cult. Our motto is 'Chaos Est Totus, Turbo Sulum, Nunquam Sileo'.
> 
> Evil-smelling, foul-mouthed, warped and habitually causing trouble. That's us.
> 
> And there are more of us around than you might think!


Now how do we go about getting elected to this cult or is it by invitation only orrrrrrrrrr do you need to be a direct blood relative ?   :: 

Sorry for all these questions but it could be in the publics interest you know  :Wink: 


Anyways must go and check on the progress of your letter the postal service is very quick these days.  :Grin:

----------


## Tubthumper

> Now how do we go about getting elected to this cult or is it by invitation only orrrrrrrrrr do you need to be a direct blood relative ?


There's not much of the blood relative thing goes on in our cult actually, because of the evil smells. 

You can only join the cult by personal recommendation. If you send me details of your personal hygiene and language problems, also your history of upsetting people who think they're above reproach, I will make representations on your behalf. 

Our AGM is held in the open, and we all stand as far apart as possible, while shouting abuse. The secretary has a very difficult task, and is actually the foulest-smelling of us all.

But it's all open and above board. And any money we raise, we tell the public about. Trust me, my father was a doctor.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Trust me, my father was a doctor.



I have a very close acquaintance who is one. English is not his first language. He has given me intense lessons on how to shout and flap your arms as these full bloodied Asian men do and as for personal hygiene    ::   ............................mmmm canna remember when I last had a shower. It could be last time I got caught in a heavy downpour. Surely I can fast track into this lovely sounding group of yours  ::   :: 


Must be off and check how your letter is getting on unless you have had a looky already.

----------


## Tubthumper

Letter delivered!  :Smile:   I can't believe how quick the Posties can be, especially when it's local mail. Cheers Guys!

----------


## Tubthumper

The letter to WADF has indeed been delivered to the Wick address today.



[Edit - I posted regarding a message I got which I thought meant the response from WADF had been despatched already. It actually referred to a parcel of hose I ordered from a Chandlers in England! My mistake, but I'm still well impressed with the Royal Mail service in Caithness!!]

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

The countdown begins.  :Grin:

----------


## Tubthumper

I've emptied my inbox (again!), so keep the info coming in folks. 

I'm also interested in hearing from any landowners who have been approached regarding a site for our new sports complex. Anyone with ideas or information on available sites which might prove suitable (bear in mind we'll most likely be linking with other provisions rather than building the complex in isolation) please give me a shout as well.  :Smile:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

No need to PM you this bit of info. 

I was at a meeting where concern was expressed by the lack of movement within this organisation. The folk who spoke to me as they know who I am on the org expressed an interest in helping in the future.They thought I knew you personally and asked me to pass this on to you but alas we have never met..........yet unless I get accepted into your cult.  :Wink:  

They have successfully been involved in sports and particularly football provision for many years and indeed have great expertise in fundraising. They are watching this thread and mentioned that should the AGM be advertised they are willing to come along to offer their help ....... you are not alone.  :Grin:

----------


## Tubthumper

Excellent Alice, the more people with knowledge and skill we can get on board, the better!

In the meantime, for those who haven't seen the plans for Halkirk's new facility, check out http://www.halkirkleisure.co.uk

(Note that I'm not involved with it whatsoever, I'm just jealous!)

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

Wow almost 11,000 views lots of interest out there I would think. 

Tubs could you PM me your name and address and I will hand it on to the folks at the next meeting if thats okay with you? This will let them get in touch with you personally.  :Grin:

----------


## ducati

> It actually referred to a parcel of hose I ordered from a Chandlers in England! ]


Crickey! You get your stockings from a Chandlers in England?  :: 

So does Mrs T.

----------


## Nacho

> Wow almost 11,000 views lots of interest out there I would think.



11,000 views sounds great until you see that this thread attracted 24,000 views and only 7 posts ...

http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=10021

this was back in the olden days, but even so   :: 

i hope more people take an interest in WADF than the above !!

----------


## Tubthumper

> ... They are watching this thread and mentioned that should the AGM be advertised they are willing to come along to offer their help ....... you are not alone.


Cheers Alice, look forward to hearing from them. The intention has to be, once the constitution and accounts are viewed, to arrange an AGM/ EGM or similar, so that ways forward for the sports complex are identified and appropriate people elected to the key roles.

----------


## RB 14-20

> whats this mr & mrs w about? i cant see much on this phone is someone taking the mick or is it the wadf makin threats?


Whats it all about....  I don't think you really need to ask  ! :Wink:

----------


## Tubthumper

> Whats it all about.... let me see, could it be a surname !


This is a good game. Perhaps it could be a surname. 

Now, are you suggesting that these people might have the answer, or dropping hints that Mr & Mrs W might get their windows tanned on my behalf? Or maybe you're pointing out that me and my OH have a name beginning with W?

Too cryptic for me, RB. You'll need to be clearer! :Smile:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Cheers Alice, look forward to hearing from them.


Thanks for the info.  :Grin: 




> The intention has to be, once the constitution and accounts are viewed, to arrange an AGM/ EGM or similar, so that ways forward for the sports complex are identified and appropriate people elected to the key roles.


Will it have be a case of waiting for the AGM and then anyone interested turn up? 

If its to be an EGM will the office bearers not have to call it?  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

> Will it have be a case of waiting for the AGM and then anyone interested turn up? If its to be an EGM will the office bearers not have to call it?


I think the office bearers will have an open meeting in the not too distant future. It could be their scheduled AGM, or an EGM called by the 'committee', but open to the public. 

Failing that, measures can be enacted to force disclosure, and allow the community to find out what the present incumbents have achieved with OUR £1/4 million over the last ten years. And to ensure the means and people are in place to to carry the project forward (not just keep giving empty reassurances that things are going well!)

But the information we all want will finally be revealed.  :Smile:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> But the information we all want will finally be revealed.


That shouldnt be too far away given that you have made it quite obvious that you are more than willing to pay what was requested to receive this information on this forum they have been watching. 

I would expect they have it all ready for posting and they were just awaiting your cheque. :Wink: 

Given that the postman has been so quick the last time I would expect the return post to be just as quick. ::

----------


## Tubthumper

Ah, but all we've requested is the constitution and the accounts. They won't necessarily divulge any meeting minutes or any kind of progress reports at this stage.

But to refuse to willingly divulge everything would be foolish; Regardless of how they consider themselves, they are working voluntarily on our behalf, and that money is ours. And we WILL find out what's been going on one way or another. 

So if the WADF 'committee' want to come out of this looking good, all they have to do is willingly disclose what's been going on, how much is in the fund, and what (if any) progress has actually been made.

If they are daft enough to try and fight us off, they will look really bad in the eyes of their community.

We are GLAD that they've raised £250 000 for us. We want to be PROUD that this cash is available for a facility to put Wick right on the map. We would absolutely HATE to have yet another charity fundraising drama.

And if there's been little or no actual progress, we will put the right people in place who have the skills and knowledge to _make_ our sports complex happen, or put our money where it can best be used to benefit the people of Wick and environs. 

Trust me - this is how it will be.  :Smile:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> And if there's been little or no actual progress, we will put the right people in place who have the skills and knowledge to _make_ our sports complex happen, or put our money where it can best be used to benefit the people of Wick and environs. 
> 
> Trust me - this is how it will be.


Thats how it should be !

If the current committee are no longer making progress and they have pushed the project to this point but no further then surely its the best for all concerned to hand over to fresh blood.

----------


## Tubthumper

What would be a good name for our new sports complex? 'Wick Community Sports Centre' sounds a bit bland to me. We could give it:

A Viking name (exciting, promotes our heritage)A Gaelic name (promotes our gaelic/ clearance heritage)A totally random designation (exciting for the kids)A name associated with the ground it's built on
Alternatively we could do the tradition thing and name it after:

A famous local personTelford or Stevenson, the architects of Wick (well, bits of it)A local politician or dignitaryA weel-kent local worthyOne of the committee who have made it possibleThe landowner who donates the ground for it

----------


## katarina

What about the bignold park?

----------


## Tubthumper

> What about the bignold park?


Aren't there all sorts of ownership and existing user issues there?  :: 

However, it may be that the new Sports Complex is best combined with any new school/ pool/ library/ performance centre complex, to get the benefit of common services and minimising maintenance costs etc. Also one single REALLY impressive community facility, swarming with people all the time...

For the community to be very proud of.

But what to call it? ::

----------


## Tubthumper

Still loads of views but not so many posts now. Is it getting boring? Are we losing interest? Don't make me feel sad & lonely, folks!?

What facilities should it have?

I'll start us off with a proper 8-lane 400m running track. With 500 tiered seats.

And proper gates to stop folk letting their dowgs poop on the grass!

----------


## Amy-Winehouse

> Still loads of views but not so many posts now. Is it getting boring? Are we losing interest? Don't make me feel sad & lonely, folks!?
> 
> What facilities should it have?
> 
> I'll start us off with a proper 8-lane 400m running track. With 500 tiered seats.
> 
> And proper gates to stop folk letting their dowgs poop on the grass!


If it was to develop WAFC , there shouldnt be a running track anywhere near the pitch Im afraid to say.  But if it is to benefit the community, by all means have a running track but remeember theres £200,000 + not £2 million which they would need going by your plans  :Wink:

----------


## Amy-Winehouse

> What would be a good name for our new sports complex? 'Wick Community Sports Centre' sounds a bit bland to me. We could give it:
> 
> A Viking name (exciting, promotes our heritage)A Gaelic name (promotes our gaelic/ clearance heritage)A totally random designation (exciting for the kids)A name associated with the ground it's built onAlternatively we could do the tradition thing and name it after:
> 
> A famous local personTelford or Stevenson, the architects of Wick (well, bits of it)A local politician or dignitaryA weel-kent local worthyOne of the committee who have made it possibleThe landowner who donates the ground for it


 
The Jacky Gunn centre of Sporting excellence.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> If it was to develop WAFC , there shouldnt be a running track anywhere near the pitch Im afraid to say.  But if it is to benefit the community, by all means have a running track but remeember theres £200,000 + not £2 million which they would need going by your plans



With the £2 million or whatever monies there is currently in the bank you could use this to apply to organisations for match funding. This would double your money overnight if successful.  :Grin: 

The key to this is the committee need to be regularly meeting, discussing and acting on what they want to achieve.

and letting others know

----------


## Tubthumper

> If it was to develop WAFC , there shouldnt be a running track anywhere near the pitch Im afraid to say.  But if it is to benefit the community, by all means have a running track but remeember theres £200,000 + not £2 million which they would need going by your plans


We need to have a discussion about what our new centre will be for. No point in trying to serve everyone's demands and ending up with something that's rubbish for most things.

The fund was originally intended primarily to develop Wick (and by extension, Caithness) football. Football does seem to be the dominant sport up here. So should we be concentrating on providing a better football stadium with superb community _outdoor_ training facilities? (to complement the mainly _indoor_ facilities that Halkirk are developing)

----------


## Tubthumper

> The Jacky Gunn centre of Sporting excellence.


OK, that's a start. Has this individual excelled at some sport? Or are they a well-known local philanthropist? ::

----------


## Wario

Is it just me or is anyone else disappointed to say the least that messrs Gunn & Carter and the secret committee have not bothered to provide any information as to the progress of our sports centre.

Not only are they ignoring the requests on this forum and we know they are watching but they have also ignored the request from Jamie Stone MSP printed in the local paper a few weeks back. :: 

All said and done they were "close" to having everything in place back in 2002 so what has happened in the last 8 years?

----------


## gollach

> Is it just me or is anyone else disappointed to say the least that messrs Gunn & Carter and the secret committee have not bothered to provide any information as to the progress of our sports centre.
> 
> Not only are they ignoring the requests on this forum and we know they are watching but they have also ignored the request from Jamie Stone MSP printed in the local paper a few weeks back.
> 
> All said and done they were "close" to having everything in place back in 2002 so what has happened in the last 8 years?



Have you asked Jamie Stone if he got a response?
We should wait and see what is provided in response to Tubthumper's request for information.

----------


## Tubthumper

> Is it just me or is anyone else disappointed to say the least that messrs Gunn & Carter and the secret committee have not bothered to provide any information as to the progress of our sports centre.


The arrogance is simply stunning  :: 



> Not only are they ignoring the requests on this forum and we know they are watching but they have also ignored the request from Jamie Stone MSP printed in the local paper a few weeks back.


But as the 'chairman' explained, he would reveal the truth when it suited him. We matter nowt.



> All said and done they were "close" to having everything in place back in 2002 so what has happened in the last 8 years?


 I'll stick my neck out and sum it up:

Money raised - c. £250 000Designs for centre commissioned - noneLand acquired for complex - noneInteraction with highland council - noneDiscussions with local groups re requirements - noneInteractions with funding bodies - noneIndividuals in community pleased - noneIndividuals in 'committee' pleased - 6

----------


## Happy Guy

> We need to have a discussion about what our new centre will be for. No point in trying to serve everyone's demands and ending up with something that's rubbish for most things.
> 
> The fund was originally intended primarily to develop Wick (and by extension, Caithness) football. Football does seem to be the dominant sport up here. So should we be concentrating on providing a better football stadium with superb community _outdoor_ training facilities? (to complement the mainly _indoor_ facilities that Halkirk are developing)


In the present circumstances, perhaps its a little premature to be thinking about what the proposed new centre will be used for, but I would caution against placing too much emphasis on football, as this would exclude a large proportion of the public

----------


## Wario

> Have you asked Jamie Stone if he got a response?
> We should wait and see what is provided in response to Tubthumper's request for information.


The request from Jamie Stone MSP published in the Groat on 9 July was a follows "A CALL was made this week for the Caithness public to be told how much money is in the Wick Academy Development Fund, what it is to be used for and what progress is being made with regard to its aims being met"

As we the Caithness public are no further on about of the points Mr Stone raised i think it is fair to say they are ignoring him as well as us.

----------


## Tubthumper

> In the present circumstances, perhaps its a little premature to be thinking about what the proposed new centre will be used for, but I would caution against placing too much emphasis on football, as this would exclude a large proportion of the public


That's a fair point. While we're (still) waiting, why don't the public give an indication here about what they'd like to see included? :Smile:

----------


## Tubthumper

> As we the Caithness public are no further on about of the points Mr Stone raised i think it is fair to say they are ignoring him as well as us.


That's one of the great things about having a secret 'committee' of 'trustees' and membership by invitation only. You can treat everyone with complete contempt.

How they've continued to get away with it is probably down to the community's 'live and let live' attitude, and our inherent trust in the integrity of our fellow man.

Well we got caught bonny with the Gala funds, didn't we!?  ::

----------


## katarina

personally I don't care what it's used for as long as it's used for something other than lining the secret committee's pockets!  Secret committee!  this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of.  the people of wicK have just been too trusting, and past experience should learn us not to be so again.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> The arrogance is simply stunning 
> 
> But as the 'chairman' explained, he would reveal the truth when it suited him. We matter nowt.
>  I'll stick my neck out and sum it up:
> 
> Money raised - c. £250 000Designs for centre commissioned - noneLand acquired for complex - noneInteraction with highland council - noneDiscussions with local groups re requirements - noneInteractions with funding bodies - noneIndividuals in community pleased - noneIndividuals in 'committee' pleased - 6


Sorry Tubs you missed one out
[*] Requests to local groups turned down and disappointed - a few  :: 




> Well we got caught bonny with the Gala funds, didn't we!?


Time and time again local funds have been used and abused by its members this has been going on now for many years some brought to justice others got away with it !

I would have thought that this would have made any committee try doubly hard to be as open as possible to the public whose money they have in their care.

----------


## W.A.D.F. (SC032787)

I've been away and have just been catching up on here. I checked the *Charities and Trustee Investment (Scotland) Act 2005, Chapter 3, Section 23, "Entitlement to information about charities"* and there is no mention of any time limit for a response...so i'm afraid that it's neither 14 working days or 14 days. Patience may be required by all !!

----------


## ducati

Inspired by my recent visit to the Halkirk Highland Games (where the Jocks were comprehensively beaten by an Australian), might I venture a thought that we should include facilities for the more traditional highland pastimes.  :: 

Only joking, a magnificent display by all the competitors  :Grin:

----------


## Tubthumper

> I've been away and have just been catching up on here. I checked the *Charities and Trustee Investment (Scotland) Act 2005, Chapter 3, Section 23, "Entitlement to information about charities"* and there is no mention of any time limit for a response...so i'm afraid that it's neither 14 working days or 14 days. Patience may be required by all !!


You're very good The Archer. But what you must remember is that if the WADF prevaricate any further, you're likely to lose the trust of the community you're allegedly 'Working On Behalf Of'. 

Also the OSCR will not be very happy (remember the previous investigation?). 

So the WADF had better get the finger out, as they say.  :Smile:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> I've been away and have just been catching up on here. I checked the *Charities and Trustee Investment (Scotland) Act 2005, Chapter 3, Section 23, "Entitlement to information about charities"* and there is no mention of any time limit for a response...so i'm afraid that it's neither 14 working days or 14 days. Patience may be required by all !!


I agree that the 14 days ruling is not mentioned in this section............however I think that the people involved with the WADF would be only too happy to supply by return this information.  :Smile: 

If on the other hand they decide not too I am sure our good friend Tubs and a few others will be banging on the door of OSCR who can then ask for information and they have to get a response within 14 days for their request............. I think from my reading of the prior paragraph. ( unless I have read it wrong )


A group with nothing to hide have no need to hold onto any information regarding public monies.  ( have they now?? )      :Smile:

----------


## Amy-Winehouse

> OK, that's a start. Has this individual excelled at some sport? Or are they a well-known local philanthropist?


Well on that basis , Murray Park , the Training ground of The Rangers FC shouldnt be called Murray Park then should it???.

 Sir David Murray Pumped millions of pounds into Rangers FC- he didnt play for the club , didnt manage them , coach them or have too much to do with the way clubs are run(allegedly)

He then built as guided by Dick Advocaat a £14 million pound training complex at Milngavie & it was named Murray Park.

So If if the new complex ever gets built . why not call it after someone local like the biggest contributor or ticket seller or maybe even Fan ??

What about the K.W stadium ?

----------


## gollach

> I've been away and have just been catching up on here. I checked the *Charities and Trustee Investment (Scotland) Act 2005, Chapter 3, Section 23, "Entitlement to information about charities"* and there is no mention of any time limit for a response...so i'm afraid that it's neither 14 working days or 14 days. Patience may be required by all !!


Too tired to look up the link just now but I think that I saw the 14 days mentioned in section 22.  It relates to the time the charity has to respond to a request for information from OSCR.

Now that WADF have provided all the information OSCR were needing (as I recall from earlier posts it had been listed as overdue but has since been provided by WADF), it will be no hardship to rattle off another copy and post it to Tubs....especially now he's stumped up £20 for the information.

----------


## phil_moonbeam

i no they use to rent a office in grant st wick a couple of years back for about a year they paid 40 pounds a week for this privilage so work it out folks 52 x 40 = 2080 pounds is this a justified exspence as they are such a elite little group could they no have met at one of there houses

----------


## Tubthumper

> i no they use to rent a office in grant st wick a couple of years back for about a year...


I wonder what they did in there? 

Write no press releases on their lack of progress?Decide where not to build a stadium?Plan in detail which landowners or other organisations not to speak to?Roll together in £5 notes, while laughing at their secret knowledge?Draw designs for the stadium complex on fag packets
Of course we may be doing the 'committee' a major disservice. They may have the plans and funding waiting only for the final 'go' command. They may have spoken to all the right people, and built up a comprehensive picture of what is needed, what is possible, how to build it and who should run it. 

If that's the case, though, why won't they tell anyone else?  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

> So If if the new complex ever gets built . why not call it after someone local like the biggest contributor or ticket seller or maybe even Fan ??
> 
> What about the K.W stadium ?


The Farquhar Centre... how does that sound?

Or Ian Sinclair, the bloke that is mad for Wick heritage and speaks Gaelic, what about after him?

Or simply 'KW1'?

----------


## phil_moonbeam

they used it on a monday night for about 3 hrs max 40 pounds a week rent how can they justify that they think wickers are stuiped why arnt they selling the tickets now ? were is the money ? were is the accounts ? why do all who are involved not  identify themselves ? why all the secrecy ? and they wonder why people are suspicious 

mr carter

mr more

mr gunn

and co

should just own up tell people how much money is left and whats going to happen to it thats all we want to no so no more secrets gents own up tell all

----------


## W.A.D.F. (SC032787)

Tubthumper- Woah go easy...I'm just sharing some knowledge i've gleaned from reading the charitable laws - that doesn't mean that i've anything to do with WADF.

----------


## lynne duncan

carry on tubthumper, you're doing a marvellous job and shame on the wadf committee for being so antiquated that they have the nerve to think that public money can be held in this day and age in such a manner. 
so i totally agree with you that they should publically publish the accounts, because if they have nothing to hide and are acting in the interests of the public as oscr states, they should be then an honest person and should have no scuples in coming forth. 
HOWEVER if they are crooked and have used the money to line their own pockets then yes we will probably never hear. 
So come on the committee of the wadf (mind you if they are antiquated and not with the times maybe they aren't aware of this if they not computer literate hmmm!) fess up!!!
or should we just put a set of stocks somewhere public with pictures of the committee adhered too!

but if you are honest then you could stick me in the stocks for a day in the market square for publically grumping about you.

----------


## Tubthumper

> Tubthumper- Woah go easy...I'm just sharing some knowledge i've gleaned from reading the charitable laws - that doesn't mean that i've anything to do with WADF.


Sorry mate, getting a bit frustrated here! I shouldn't be taking it so seriously.

Forgive? :Smile:

----------


## Amy-Winehouse

> Sorry mate, getting a bit frustrated here! I shouldn't be taking it so seriously.
> 
> Forgive?


So what about the comittee that you are trying to coerce into revealing where the money went, their families, Have you wondered about them while you try to dig the hole ?

I reckon the money is still there sitting in a bank somewhere , Id also love to see your face if it is , the reaction would be funny as hell

----------


## Tubthumper

> So what about the comittee that you are trying to coerce into revealing where the money went, their families, Have you wondered about them while you try to dig the hole ?
>  I reckon the money is still there sitting in a bank somewhere , Id also love to see your face if it is , the reaction would be funny as hell


Getting bored now are we? :Wink: 

I reckon money is still sitting in a bank somewhere too. I want to know how much there is, what is going to happen to it and why people seem to think they're entitled to keep secrets with public money. And I'd like to know what they've done with it over the years. After all, the individuals concerned have only ever had to keep their community informed in order to prevent suspicion being directed at them and their families. Hard-working, solid businessmen who graft to provide for their families are a joy to have in any community, even if they are a bit glum at times.

And my face will be one of simple satisfaction when all is finally revelealed.  :Smile:  Unless it turns out there's been shenanegans going on, where I will be shocked and disappointed. ::

----------


## Amy-Winehouse

> Getting bored now are we?
> 
> I reckon money is still sitting in a bank somewhere too. I want to know how much there is, what is going to happen to it and why people seem to think they're entitled to keep secrets with public money. And I'd like to know what they've done with it over the years. After all, the individuals concerned have only ever had to keep their community informed in order to prevent suspicion being directed at them and their families. Hard-working, solid businessmen who graft to provide for their families are a joy to have in any community, even if they are a bit glum at times.
> 
> And my face will be one of simple satisfaction when all is finally revelealed.  Unless it turns out there's been shenanegans going on, where I will be shocked and disappointed.


Okay thats fair enough, but I was a tad bored-its all 1 way traffic.  I wish they would come out and clarify where the dough is & as I said before I dont think they will

----------


## mrlennie

> The Farquhar Centre... how does that sound?
> 
> Or Ian Sinclair, the bloke that is mad for Wick heritage and speaks Gaelic, what about after him?
> 
> Or simply 'KW1'?


Apologies if it is a joke I have missed but doesnt KW stand for kirkwall?

----------


## Tubthumper

> Okay thats fair enough, but I was a tad bored-its all 1 way traffic.  I wish they would come out and clarify where the dough is & as I said before I dont think they will


Yeah, it gets difficult to maintain interest.  :Frown:  They'll surely send the info as soon as the cheque clears, that'll bump the 'wow' factor up a bit.  :: 

MrLennie -you're right, KW's the Kirkwall postcode, but KW1 has a certain something... maybe WK?

Maybe we can get a BIG sponsor, call it something like 'The Reebok Stadium'.

----------


## DeHaviLand

> call it something like 'The Reebok Stadium'.


Hmm, has a certain ring to it, but I think its been done  :Wink:

----------


## DeHaviLand

If it has a social club in it, we could call that bit Carter Bar! Oh wait, thats been done too :Smile:  http://www.borders-cam.com/carter-bar/

----------


## Metalattakk

> Yeah, it gets difficult to maintain interest.  They'll surely send the info as soon as the cheque clears, that'll bump the 'wow' factor up a bit. 
> 
> MrLennie -you're right, KW's the Kirkwall postcode, but KW1 has a certain something... maybe WK?
> 
> Maybe we can get a BIG sponsor, call it something like 'The Reebok Stadium'.


How about something local: "The Wick Academy of Sport".

Or is that too close to the bone?  :Wink:

----------


## Corrie 3

When the money is eventually found and spent I would like to see our Pensioners catered for. What about one of those Pensioners play parks where they can keep fit with gentle excercise.
Perhaps the obese people in Caithness could also use it to lose a bit of weight...Now that is the money well spent!!! (When/if you find it).

 ::

----------


## pegasus

> (When/if you find it).


That seems highly unlikly at this point in time!  ::

----------


## Corrie 3

> That seems highly unlikly at this point in time!


Has your Neighbour run off with it Peg???

 ::  ::  ::

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## Tubthumper

I just had to make the 200th post myself. And 14 000 views! Gosh, that's a lot of interest!

But nothing in the post today. :Frown:

----------


## gollach

> But nothing in the post today.


Maybe allow 14 days from when the cheque is cashed?  Was it cashed, did you check your current account?

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> But nothing in the post today.


Now now patience, being that they seem to be very cautious and take time to make sure everything is in order they must be sure that your cheque clears first.  :Grin: 


That said you can always check with the bank at the end of the week to see if the cheque has been cashed yet  :Wink:  


and the next week and so on

----------


## pegasus

> Has your Neighbour run off with it Peg???


Nah the neighbs are inocent! 

Theyre to busy giving each other the evileye.  ::

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## Tubthumper

> That said you can always check with the bank at the end of the week to see if the cheque has been cashed yet


 No sign of it being cashed yet, mind you the internet was down all morning (here at least), and Monday was a bank holiday. 

We have to take into account that the 'committee' have jobs just like the rest of us, and it's sometimes not easy to get to the bank to cash a cheque.

Here's hoping for the end of the week though!

----------


## RB 14-20

> This is a good game. Perhaps it could be a surname. 
> 
> Now, are you suggesting that these people might have the answer, or dropping hints that Mr & Mrs W might get their windows tanned on my behalf? Or maybe you're pointing out that me and my OH have a name beginning with W?
> 
> Too cryptic for me, RB. You'll need to be clearer!


 Windows tanned in Hen Court ........Never !!!

----------


## Tubthumper

> Windows tanned in Hen Court ........Never !!!


Whatever. If anything 'accidental' happens I'll know whose IP address to direct the (old) bill to. ::

----------


## DeHaviLand

> Windows tanned in Hen Court ........Never !!!


Strikes me as a bit sinister ::

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## Tubthumper

Pretty poor standard of threat to be honest. It's always better if the recipient has a clue what the threat refers to.

Or maybe I'm just thick.

----------


## Wario

> Windows tanned in Hen Court ........Never !!!


Never mind wasting time playing games just get on with providing the information and questions that have been asked on this forum.  You have tubthumpers money in fact you have all our money so no more nonsense.

----------


## bridgeend

> Pretty poor standard of threat to be honest. It's always better if the recipient has a clue what the threat refers to.
> 
> Or maybe I'm just thick.


May be you should watch your Back as the Chairman  Mr Gunn of the WADF commitee was mentioned in the Groat Court Pages a couple of months ago for Threating a person whom used to sell WADF tickets for him,.
This poor man was just sitting in his car at the Traffic Lights when Mr Gunn started on him all over Football i am told.
If that was not enough he repeated it a couple of weeks later with threats to the man and his brother at the Harbour as they worked on there boat.
WADF do seem to be nice people to deal with if this is how the Chairman acts.
I do not know how to post the link to the story in the Groat or i would do so.

----------


## Tubthumper

Good grief! I'm all for being passionate about sport, but that takes the biscuit! Are you telling me that the WADF 'committee' chairman, a reputable local businessman and trustee of a once-popular local charity which holds around £250 000* of the public's money, threatened violence on a bloke over football (or related issues)?

Maybe I'd better watch out and back off, I have a family to consider! :: 

But to be honest, I don't think the WADF were behind RB 14-20's posts. It's just someone messing about.  :: 

_Predicted funds - unverified at this time (accounts requested)_

----------


## Tubthumper

The cheque sent to WADF and signed for on 29th July (no electronic POD available) doesn't appear to have been cashed yet. And nothing received in the post either. 

But despite the 14-day rule not applying to applications by members of the public, it's good to remember that good old word 'reasonable' and its place in Scots law.

In the meantime, as regards mysterious & possibly sinister posts on here, it's heartening to know that someone finds it desirable to find out all about me  :Smile: . Many of my acquaintances (local & international, current and long-standing) think it's interesting too.

So just to let you know, while I'm getting bored waiting for a response, I've: 
(a) Checked up on processes for legally tracing computer and hand-held device usage should it prove necessary
(b) Spoken to friends in the Police and Close Protection fields all over the UK regarding possible threats to self, loved ones and property

And it's been pointed out that making vague references onto a public forum is a bit naff.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> So just to let you know, while I'm getting bored waiting for a response, I've: 
> (a) Checked up on processes for legally tracing computer and hand-held device usage should it prove necessary
> (b) Spoken to friends in the Police and Close Protection fields all over the UK regarding possible threats to self, loved ones and property
> 
> And it's been pointed out that making vague references onto a public forum is a bit naff.


Having been the victim of threats via computer, mobile and workplace phone calls I can give you first hand advice on this. The person who sent me (via computer) messages was so silly as I couldn't believe how easy it is to trace them once you get the IP number. My one went all the way to the top and they had very serious consequences for the sender as this is something the companies do not like.

----------


## Phill

Tis' also entertaining when the polis turn up and seize all the computer guff, even more entertaining when they do the computer forensics and find out what else the computer has been used for. ::

----------


## pegasus

> May be you should watch your Back as the Chairman  Mr Gunn of the WADF commitee was mentioned in the Groat Court Pages a couple of months ago for Threating a person whom used to sell WADF tickets for him,.
> This poor man was just sitting in his car at the Traffic Lights when Mr Gunn started on him all over Football i am told.
> If that was not enough he repeated it a couple of weeks later with threats to the man and his brother at the Harbour as they worked on there boat.
> WADF do seem to be nice people to deal with if this is how the Chairman acts.
> I do not know how to post the link to the story in the Groat or i would do so.


Such behavior is beneath contempt!

Why the threats?  :: 

Whats going on here?

----------


## Tubthumper

Still no sign of the cheque being cashed. The secretary could have banked it yesterday at lunchtime, at his work. 

Then again this could just be the famous WADF delaying tactics we've heard so much about. You know, thinking they have a right to anonymity and can do (or refuse to do) anything they like, including threatening folk for daring to ask what's been going on.

I've been checking: There are ways that 'their' fund can be removed from them. There are ways that 'they' can be removed from the running of the Development fund. There are people out here who are able to actually achieve the things their community want from the money they've donated. Unlike the current 'committee' of failures, whoever they are, who have achieved nothing in over ten years and are too scared to reveal how much they've spent while doing it!

There's a reckonin a-coming biys!  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

Still waiting for the WADF (a registered charity, raising funds on behalf of their community) to bother themselves posting out the information on what they've raised and how they're supposed to operate, to their community as required by law. 

Meanwhile, as part of my research into their activities, could anyone with information relating to the WADF 'committee' on:

Episodes of threatening behaviour or physical contactUse of foul languageRefusal to answer a civil question on funds or charity activities
or any other conduct unbecoming a charity trustee, please PM me.  :Smile:

----------


## cuddlepop

I've followed this thread with interest but never felt it appropriate to post as i dont live there but i have a question Tubs.

Why arent the Community Counsel actively pursuing this "farce" its alot of money and no apparent record of what is happening to it? :: 

Isnt that what they are there for. ::

----------


## Tubthumper

> I've followed this thread with interest but never felt it appropriate to post as i dont live there but i have a question Tubs.
>  Why arent the Community Counsel actively pursuing this "farce" its alot of money and no apparent record of what is happening to it?
>  Isnt that what they are there for.


I think that when an organisation refuses (often with some choice language! :: ) to reveal its dealings, a small community like ours tends to shrug its shoulders and hope things will work themselves out. In the case of the gala funds it didn't work out. Neither did it work out in the most recent case. 

The main questions, for community councils, MSPs. MPs, Councillors, interested groups who could make use of the money, official bodies etc. are "How does a Charity get away with acting in this way?" and "How to separate OUR money from these people?"

There are many people from far afield (and from official bodies) watching this thread; how do you think it makes our community look? ::

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

Has anyone formally written to the Wick Community Council expressing their concerns ?

----------


## Tubthumper

I haven't. I'll stick with the formal WADF and OSCR correspondence if its OK with everyone. Can someone else take on liaising with the Community Council please? I'm pretty certain they're aware of the issue, but whether they need formal notification is another thing.

_[Edit - PM box emptied (again), can people please resend info if they couldn't get in?]_

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Can someone else take on liaising with the Community Council please?


I had a pm saying that this has been done. :Grin:

----------


## Tubthumper

Cheers AiB. Although an 'organisation' which routinely disregards legal protocols, ignores 'suggestions' in the press from MSPs, and prevaricates on polite requests for information is hardly likely to get agitated about the Community Council getting involved.

I wonder; do they have something to hide, does their arrogance break all previously known records, or are they just completely incompetent? ::

----------


## Tubthumper

I forgot to mention, I'll keep dealing with the Highland Council correspondence if that's OK with youse?

You know, the Highland Council? That's our Local Authority, the one that the WADF Chairman has 'been in touch with' over the proposed development, as stated in the Groat of 9th July 2010. :: 



(Thanks for all the PMs about trustee behaviour, by the way!)

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> or are they just completely incompetent



Jeez must get my eyes tested  ::  I read this and thought it said incontinent  ::   ::

----------


## pat

Thank you Tubthumper for keeping everyone updated on this saga

WADF committee certainly appears to want to ignore the majority of folk who put money into this fund, by refusing to answer questions and provide documents which have been requested and the requested premium paid - wont be long before somefolks collars will be felt by the long arm of the law imho.

They have had enough time to find all the relevant documents and copied them, many times over - but are they running out of handkercheifs to wipe their sweaty brows, toilet rolls to wipe up after their nervous tums - all charged to expenses of course!

Wonder what they have to cover up - must be something - most committees would supply the information without payment and as quickly as possible to be seen to be acting in a competent and appropriate manner with the monies of which they have control.

This secret committee certain appears to be putting the two fingers up to the folk who willingly gave money into this Developement Fund and want to know where and what this money has/is being used to fund.

----------


## Tubthumper

Cheers Pat. I'm trying to work out the best way to broadcast this to the offshore workers, who willingly paid into the fund thinking it would be used to build a football stadium for Wick. 

The more info we can get the better, and it certainly sounds as if tens of thousands of pounds dropped into the laps of the WADF from these guys. 

Any ideas?

----------


## pat

I saw the thread on here about WADF - ignored it for a long time and did not read it until one day accidentally clicked on it

Wish it had been headed more eye-catching and the folk would be more likely to popin for a glance and be rivetted by the goings on of this "Committee" who chose to ignore practically all of the folk who helped raise the money and now want to know what has happened to this money and where it is is now - everyone is accountable for their actions, including this nameless committee.

Has WADF been raising money under false pretences - where is the money and what has it been used to improve or develope - we (the public) have asked the questions and still after all this time there are no answers - date unavailable to me as Bill has removed the original thread but it has been some months now.

I would have thought the folk of Caithness would be a bit more financially aware after the all the financial irregularities there have been in Caithness lately - do not live in Caithness but I do read some papers.  

Think I may move back to Caithness to see what scams, financial irregularities are open as Caithness folk appear to be extremely trusting with the money they hand over to anyone who says it is going to a good cause - see how well you can live before getting caught and getting your wrists lightly tapped and made to pay back only the part of the money they can prove was taken, whilst living a very comfortable life on the rest of the proceeds.  

I can imagine many folk are heading up to Caithness to syphon off the gullible Caithness folks money - they hand over money without asking any questions, they trust everyone and especially if they are from Caithness or have Caithness connections, when will you learn not to be so trusting?

What about asking RIGGERBOY what the best way of getting this advertised on the oil rigs in Aberdeen - would a letter to the editor of the P&J asking for all the folk who gave money to WADF to ask questions of OSCR and the people locally who authorise charity collections?

----------


## Tubthumper

Pat's point about taking care of our charities is a good one. Wick's recent experiences with dodgy treasurers and fundraisers brings up some very interesting questions about charity fraud. I found this in a paper by the Financial Industry's own charitable body...
*
Charity Fraud - The victims*
Charity fraud can have a considerable impact upon a range of victims in a variety of ways. Ultimately we all pay the price for fraud perpetrated against the charity sector; charities lose money, donors lose confidence in giving, beneficiaries lose access to services, employees lose jobs and wider society loses the important contribution that charities make to the quality of life in our local, national and international communities.
Victims include:
• The charity: The charity does not receive the full amount of income that has been collected on its behalf or income is misappropriated or misapplied.
• Donors and financial supporters: The donor is misled into providing donations to fictitious charities or bogus collectors or the full value of the donation (or other form of financial support) is not applied to the charity or in the manner expected.
• Beneficiaries: The beneficiary is deprived of financial assistance, goods, services, resources or their own money because the charity has not received the necessary/ anticipated income to fund activities.
• Employees and volunteers: The morale of employees and volunteers can be seriously affected. Employees may lose their jobs.
• Wider society: Fraud can erode public confidence in charities and damage the reputation of the sector as a whole.
_
(Source - Fraud Advisory Panel - paper 01/08   www.fraudadvisorypanel.org/newsite/PDFs/other/Charity Fraud (June08).pdf)_

----------


## Tubthumper

£8 cheque's been cashed - to clear on Monday!  :Smile: 

Great stuff, thanks WADF. Looking forward to receiving your information.

----------


## Phill

> £8 cheque's been cashed - to clear on Monday!



Woohoo!!

Now how long before we find out if it's a 419er or not???? ::

----------


## pat

Now they have cashed the cheque they have agreed to a contract to provide the goods requested and within a reasonable date.

Please let us all on here know, as you have always done - clear and above board with nothing to hide, when and what the answers you receive from this WADF committee.

Thanks for all your good work so far - keep thumping the tub for Caithness.

Nothing public should be hidden - everything above board and able to be inspected by anyone who wants to view any information.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Nothing public should be hidden - everything above board and able to be inspected by anyone who wants to view any information.


Looks like the Government agrees with you Pat

I was checking to see if the freedom of information act applies to charities and found this lovely piece of info  :Grin: 

_Freedom of Information Act will not apply to charities

the ministry said that the benefits of bringing charities under the auspices of the act would be significantly outweighed by the "inevitable" negative impact on their charitable causes brought by the extra cost of compliance.
But it added that the Government would "expect charities to respond as openly and promptly as possible to reasonable requests for the information they hold"._

----------


## pegasus

> _But it added that the Government would "expect charities to respond as openly and promptly as possible to reasonable requests for the information they hold"._


Straigt forward business ettiquet (sp) only to be expected of course. 
Asuming you have a moral consciense that is!

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Straigt forward business ettiquet (sp) only to be expected of course.


I agree  :Smile:

----------


## bridgeend

> I saw the thread on here about WADF - ignored it for a long time and did not read it until one day accidentally clicked on it
> 
> Wish it had been headed more eye-catching and the folk would be more likely to popin for a glance and be rivetted by the goings on of this "Committee" who chose to ignore practically all of the folk who helped raise the money and now want to know what has happened to this money and where it is is now - everyone is accountable for their actions, including this nameless committee.
> 
> Has WADF been raising money under false pretences - where is the money and what has it been used to improve or develope - we (the public) have asked the questions and still after all this time there are no answers - date unavailable to me as Bill has removed the original thread but it has been some months now.
> 
> I would have thought the folk of Caithness would be a bit more financially aware after the all the financial irregularities there have been in Caithness lately - do not live in Caithness but I do read some papers.  
> 
> Think I may move back to Caithness to see what scams, financial irregularities are open as Caithness folk appear to be extremely trusting with the money they hand over to anyone who says it is going to a good cause - see how well you can live before getting caught and getting your wrists lightly tapped and made to pay back only the part of the money they can prove was taken, whilst living a very comfortable life on the rest of the proceeds.  
> ...


Your words are very true Pat  it seems that Caithness folks are to trusting and gulliable as far as giving to Charity is concerned.
There are Two more  Charity fraudters in Wick JP court on Tuesday over a collection in the Seaforth Club and the Pipe Band hall .
There actions put people off giving but at least them have been taken to Court and named and shamed for there actions hope the Seaforth club will Ban the person   involved.
 The Pipeband have stated in the paper that it is Nothing to do with them.

----------


## pat

totally agree with you - everyone suffers from the misappropriation/misplacement of funds.
As a Wicker living in Stornoway - I have been getting very strange looks, from people who do not know me, folk walking away when I say I am from Wick, especially since the recent court case in Wick involving someone who moved here from Wick, this loss of trust has certainly affected my relationship with the people of Lewis who do not know me personally.

Time the Wick Academy Developement Fund was cleared/cleaned up and everything out in the open and above board, to enable everyone to see all is crystal clear, there has been no subterfuge and underhand dealings with this fund and accounts, that the committee have just been very careful in protecting the donations, their identities and their money management techniques.

Hope you get the envelope on Monday Tubthumper with all the information required.

----------


## Tubthumper

> _... the Government would "expect charities to respond as openly and promptly as possible to reasonable requests for the information they hold"._


There is a legal requirement to promptly provide the constitution/ governing document and latest accounts when requested. Providing anything else (e.g. a list of trustees, meeting records, details of expenses, progress reports etc) is down to the charity, while the legality of withholding information is down to examination of that lovely old legal term 'reasonable'.

Now, I would say that it is 'reasonable' for us (either as Members Of The Public or Citizens of Wick and Environs) to wonder what's going on, to ask for access to records, and possibly to demand an open meeting where we can ask questions of those working on our behalf. Many of my chums who know about these things agree, and they've all been laughing mightily at the progress of this thread!  :: 

The trustees of a charity that claims to be 'Working On Behalf Of The Community' would be well advised to *willingly* provide any information on their activities that is requested.  :Grin:  And I should point out that I (we) haven't yet asked for anything other than the Gov Doc and accounts. 

As I've said since the start, we might get a pleasant surprise and find that there's stacks of dosh, a well-defined plan, a beautifully-conducted project development programme and smiles all round. And I will be first to offer my congratulations and apologies for casting doubts, although I will wryly wonder why the need for all the secrecy and loss of sleep.

In the meantime, any trustee (whoever they are) that doesn't want to continue in their role, perhaps because they think they're above being dragged blinking into the limelight, worried about having their personal conduct and sources of income examined in public, concerned they might have been a bit aggressive in their trusteeship, who's maybe exaggerated a little bit when talking to the press, or been a bit over-enthusiastic in their public denunciation of people seeking the truth, can resign at any time. That won't excuse them from possibly being asked to explain their conduct at a future point, but I'm sure the community will offer thanks for the work done. 

Any trustee wishing to escape and afraid of the reaction of other trustees, why not drop me a pm or give me a phone (you know who and where I am, after all) and I can offer some counselling and contacts for help.

And on a final note (for the moment) I'm told that, in our wonderful Scots law, the defence of 'Veritas' is absolute in cases where Defamation has been alleged. Can someone let me know if that's correct please?  :Smile:

----------


## Tubthumper

Thanks to all those who confirmed the legal niceties of online debate in Scotland.  :Smile:  

After 17 500 views this thread is still popular, but let's make sure it doesn't become stale. Holding off until folk get bored and lose interest has served our friends well in the past, and allowed this silly situation to persist for over 10 years. 

Please keep lobbing in your thoughts. I'll get hold of a scanner, in anticipation of lots of goodies coming shortly!  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

> Woohoo!! Now how long before we find out if it's a 419er or not????


419er, what's that Phill? 

Was My Darling Clementine not involved with a Minor 419er, before she was lost and gone forever??  ::  Is that what's happened to our cash??

----------


## DeHaviLand

419 is the offence committed by internet scammers originating in Nigeria, now widely used to signify a scam of any kind. I'm sure thats not the case here though  :Smile:

----------


## Phill

> 419er, what's that Phill?


As DeHaviLand pointed out it's the Nigerian based scams starting with an email offering you a financial dream whilst in reality they'll just be relieving you of all your cash. 

But obviously this is not the case here, just my imagination running wild and my inane ramblings once again.



I'll get me coat.....

----------


## Tubthumper

Ah. Cheers for that Phill & DeHavilland. The post's been, nothing today. 

But on another note, today it's exactly one calendar month (31 days) since the article was published on the front page of our local paper, where Jamie Stone MSP made a call for information on the WADF to be made public. What was it he said...?
_
"I feel it would be in the best interests of everyone if the details of the fund could now be made public. Indeed, I can't see why this should not happen."_ 

They've ignored him, like they ignore everyone else. Except when they're forced to do something. Maybe we should just review that interview...
_
Mr Gunn, a former chairman of Wick Academy, would not speak about what appeared on the website. "I have no comment to make because I do not read or check what is on the internet but I will have a lot to say at the right time."_

Perhaps not to the press, but making comments about this website (and posters thereon) using a spectacular combination of local dialect, a few interesting biological and medical terms, and what can only be described as 'spittle' always has a Right Time in Wick, by all accounts. The community that Mr Gunn's secret society (the WADF) is _'Working On Behalf Of'_ seem to think that NOW would be a Right Time to start saying a lot, like how much is in the fund and what has he been doing with it.

_He explained he has been in touch with the local authority about the project._

Indeed.   ::  Of course, that statement could apply equally to a brief conversation in a bar with the bloke that cuts the Bignold Park grass, or to a three hour strategy meeting with the Council's Ward Manager. Perhaps the Fund trustees and the Council (elected members and staff) could clarify that one for us.

_"The fund's objectives remain the same otherwise we have all been wasting our time and effort in trying to do something for the county," continued Mr Gunn. 
_
Objectives? What exactly were they again? Mr Gunn and his secret chums appear to have achieved nothing at all (except collect a pile of cash, alienate local sports clubs and annoy their community) in over ten years. Perhaps it's now time for the community to say 'Mr Gunn and co, you HAVE been wasting your time and effort. Also wasting the time and effort of all those who sold your tickets in good faith, and of all those who gave you money to build a sports facility. So why not stop wasting our time, tell us how much is in the Fund, and then let someone else (with decent manners and some actual ability) take up the campaign.'

_He also confirmed that no money currently is being raised. "We are not fundraising at the moment but we are hoping to start up again," added Mr Gunn. 
_
Does that mean they haven't got enough cash to do what they haven't planned to do, (like purchase no land, commission no designs or feasibility studies, consult no sports organisations and actually build no stadium)? That they'll have to revert to their sole tactic, ie convincing people to part with their pounds in exchange for tickets (how many made & sold each week...) to have a chance of winning a prize (winner drawn where...) yet again? And what happens if they DON'T start fundraising again?

They've been 'storing' nearly 1/4 of a million of our pounds for years while treating us all like idiots; do they really think, after all the charity scamming that's gone on in Wick lately, that anyone will actually give them MORE money?  :: 


Oh deary, deary, dear!

----------


## pat

Well said Tubthumper

Maybe it is also time to remind Jamie Stone it is one calendar month since his speech was reported in the local paper - perhaps he will take further interest and persuade "the committee" to supply the relevant paperwork as requested and paid for by your good self.

Looking forward to reading the relevant papers.

----------


## Tubthumper

Where's the best place to book for a public meeting in Wick? It will have to have a top table facing the audience, with seats for a chairman (Jamie Stone?), the committee/ charity trustee's representatives (3 off?), maybe 3 for 'interested parties' representatives, plus public seating for maybe 50?

----------


## Dadie

Assembly rooms?
Easy to find and some parking.

----------


## Tubthumper

> Assembly rooms?
> Easy to find and some parking.


Isn't that a bit big? After all, I'm sure not that many people will want to come along and hear the them state their case, in response to questions from the community they're keeping secrets from working on behalf of? ::

----------


## pat

The Assembley Rooms has many smaller rooms - the Mowat Room which used to very plush, then they have many rooms used for dancing lessons.
All wheelchair accessible, plenty of parking.

I am sure there will be space available somewhere at Pultney Peoples Project, have not seen buildings but sure there will be accessible rooms for meetings available.

School buildings, quite a few in Wick, all accessible and lots of parking.

The hospital would permit one of the rooms they use for meetings to be hired for a few hours.

There is always the railway station - free of charge, plenty of fresh air, flat surface, seating.

The Trinkie, fairly accessible for the fit, plenty of room and rocks to be used as tables - ensuring no damage will get done if a temper tantrum is thrown. 

Harbour area - when you have had enough you can jump in the water or throw them in for a swim as they have not used the money for the swimming pool!

Plenty choices of venue but will "the committee" turn up and answer questions put to them.

Give me plenty of warning and I will try to turn up for this meeting when held.

----------


## groater

the market square next to GALLOWS ?

----------


## pat

Liked the comment - thought it was Riggerboy in disguise.

The person I would like to see convene this meeting would be Ann Dunnet, the Lord Lieutenant of Caithness - she has the experience, ability and the knowledge to be able to get the answers and points needed to clear all this up, leaving no stone unturned and no slug still creeping around leaving a slimy trail - would make no bones about her decisions and opinions (shame Ewan Stewart is no longer with us for that, political incorrectness or legality, he could not care, said what he thought!)

Market Square - yes - everyone can hear and many folk can join in from their drinking dens so ensuring a good attendance at the meeting.

----------


## bridgeend

To save any meeting why do Mr Gunn,Mr More,Mr Carter
,Mr Widemuch,Mr Wares and whoever is on the commitee of WADF not just go to the Groat Office and Give them the Details of the Funds they hold and let the Groat publish the details.
This would be the easy way to sort the matter out or is a case Mr Gunn wishes to do it the Hard Way .

----------


## Tubthumper

> To save any meeting why do Mr Gunn, Mr More, Mr Carter, Mr Widemuch, Mr Wares and whoever is on the commitee of WADF not just go to the Groat Office and Give them the Details of the Funds they hold and let the Groat publish the details.
> This would be the easy way to sort the matter out or is a case Mr Gunn wishes to do it the Hard Way .


That's a brilliant idea. That way they could thumb their noses at me and all others on the org, save some face and yet still meet their obligations to the community & the OSCR (and the law) as a charity. 

I wouldn't mind, all I want is to know what's there and what (if anything) has been done with it.


(Bet Mr Gunn won't let them do it though!)

----------


## golach

> Where's the best place to book for a public meeting in Wick? It will have to have a top table facing the audience, with seats for a chairman (Jamie Stone?), the committee/ charity trustee's representatives (3 off?), maybe 3 for 'interested parties' representatives, plus public seating for maybe 50?


Try here for a meeting place Tubs, Bill Fernie has had this forum set up for a long time, choose one, there are still a few


http://www.caithness.org/telephones/index.htm

----------


## Happy Guy

> Isn't that a bit big? After all, I'm sure not that many people will want to come along and hear the them state their case, in response to questions from the community they're keeping secrets from working on behalf of?


The Assembly Rooms have a choice of rooms of different sizes, and one that is ideal for a top table and 50-60 public, so would be a good place to use

----------


## Moira

> To save any meeting why do Mr Gunn,Mr More,Mr Carter
> ,Mr Widemuch,Mr Wares and whoever is on the commitee of WADF not just go to the Groat Office and Give them the Details of the Funds they hold and let the Groat publish the details.
> This would be the easy way to sort the matter out or is a case Mr Gunn wishes to do it the Hard Way .


What would they tell the Groat though?

Would it be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but......    ?  :Grin:

----------


## pat

No answer in the post today tubthumper?

Maybe they have run out of ink for copier and your papers will be in the post by end of week!  

Well we do have to live in hope!  (and as they say die in despair!!!)

----------


## Tubthumper

Hah!

Nothing in the post today. 

People of Wick and environs, rise up against these outrageous charlatans! When you see one of them, demand to know why they are treating us all like idiots. 

Don't be afraid of them, their defiance is simply that of the blustering bully. They have no defence, they have simply done nothing with our money, because they are incapable! 

We want it back, AND we want answers! ::

----------


## gleeber

> Hah!
> 
> Nothing in the post today. 
> 
> People of Wick and environs, rise up against these outrageous charlatans! When you see one of them, demand to know why they are treating us all like idiots. 
> 
> Don't be afraid of them, their defiance is simply that of the blustering bully. They have no defence, they have simply done nothing with our money, because they are incapable! 
> 
> We want it back, AND we want answers!


What a thumper of a thread and post of the century to boot.  :Smile: 
 I never thought I would post on here but Ive been following it from the beginning and over the years in the paper and am fascinated. 
I feel quite neutral  with no feelings about anything but surely its time this was investigated discreetly and privately by the powers that be?
And quickly?

----------


## pegasus

> What a thumper of a thread and post of the century to boot.


It sure is!

The TRUTH will out indeed!  :Smile:

----------


## bridgeend

> It sure is!
> 
> The TRUTH will out indeed!


Truth from  the WADF chairman NO CHANCE going by his track record when he was Chairman of Wick Acd FC before he got Booted out .

----------


## Tubthumper

It's occurred to me that this whole sorry affair could put people off getting involved with fundraising or being a trustee for any charity. 

Please, rather than backing off from any donation, commitment, charity role or trusteeship, just make sure that the cause you're interested in is open and straight in its dealings with the public, has no secret committees or agendas, that the books are open to examination (without having to pay and then wait until it's convenient for the 'committee'), and that there are clear objectives which are actively being pursued.

And don't let anyone bully you if you DO get involved!  :Wink:

----------


## pat

Yes Tubthumper - many folk have already discovered how much work it is being on committees, the work and responsiblities, having to be police checked to be for some committees and groups.

It is not an easy job volunteering but if you do everything by the book, be transparent and above board with all actions it also helps the committee to work smoothly.

Hope a nice big pile of paperowrk from WADF is in the post for you in the morning, if it is not think the time for OSCR to be advised they are not abiding by the rules and for OSCR to start asking questions and getting answers for you.

----------


## Happy Guy

Is the time not fast approaching when the Police should be asked to become involved?

----------


## Tubthumper

> Is the time not fast approaching when the Police should be asked to become involved?


At the moment, all that we've got are a group of people (identities largely unknown) who have collected a lot of money from people all over the North of Scotland for ten years or more, on the pretext that they would build a sports complex for Wick. Which they obviously haven't done. 

And since no-one has seen a planning application, and various agencies don't seem to have heard anything from the group, it seems that they haven't been doing what they said they would do when they (a) collected the money and (b) registered their cause as a charity. 

Getting the police involved will be down to the OSCR, if they decide a law has been broken. They are interested in what the WADF have been doing (or not) and are aware of this thread. They have a service expectation but they appreciate that charities have different abilities to respond and try to take account of these. 

However, judgement is not made based solely on a ticking clock. As the WADF have been investigated previously AND don't seem to have learned anything (except how to treat the OSCR with the same contempt they treat the rest of us) AND as they are (probably) not acting in accordance with their governing document AND as they have a significant fund at their disposal AND as they have trustees with time to commit AND they are aware of their community's fury and outrage but have done nothing to assuage it, I would imagine that the OSCR will be onto this swiftly, otherwise their role and ability to deal with errant charities will be questioned by us and our elected representatives. 

An e-mail, via the OSCR's online complaints process, directed to the lady who is the designated case worker is all it will take. And even if the documents arrive today, 'general' complaints about the WADF's behaviour can be raised by any member of the public who wishes to see further or faster action, when the time is appropriate.

What will be interesting is when the accounts and constitution _finally_ arrive and we decide what we wish to do next (Demand that WADF have a public meeting? Have a public meeting for them? Get the WADF wound up and the funds transferred to a proper charity? Replace the trustees? or whatever).

I feel your frustration. I sense that our community feels betrayed and humiliated. I hope that our representatives and the official bodies can see that.

This thread is like a cannon; balled, wadded and fused, with the flame hovering close by and with a bloody great BANG just about to happen! ::  Har har har.

_[By the way, we're just about to break the 20 000 views barrier - how's THAT for a community web forum!]_

----------


## pat

Well said Tubthumper - you have the community behind you in everything you are doing to unveil and uncover this "committee" who have ignored the wishes of the folk from whom they raised the monies, keep up the good works.

Obviously nothing in this mornings post either.

----------


## Tubthumper

No post yet (probably lost in the fog!) but will advise when it arrives.

(Re my 'cannon' metaphor - remember it could be a damp squib!)  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

Post's been, nothing from WADF. They're obviously holding off as long as possible, thinking that's OK and within the rules. Oh dear.

I'm getting a bit annoyed now. I can be a bit tetchy when I'm annoyed...

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> I'm getting a bit annoyed now. I can be a bit tetchy when I'm annoyed...


Can you be tetchy and annoyed and clear your inbox as the shy folk who are trying to contact you rather than posting on the forum may not be able too...............  :Wink: 

You are either a very popular person with lots of people p'ming you or very lazy and not emptying your pms..........................I wonder which one that is?  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

> You are either a very popular person with lots of people p'ming you or very lazy and not emptying your pms..........................I wonder which one that is?


Sorry, sorry, sorry!! Box cleared (again!) :: 

Appreciate people wishing to keep info off the public boards, but please bear with me. I'm only an amateur (and a nerse as well!)

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Sorry, sorry, sorry!! Box cleared (again!)
> 
> Appreciate people wishing to keep info off the public boards, but please bear with me. I'm only an amateur (and a nerse as well!)



Thank you so much  :Grin: 

I just love it when people respond promptly to requests from members of the public...............................  :: 

Not bad for an amateur ................or a 'nerse'   :: ( must look that word up in the dictionary )

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Post's been, nothing from WADF. They're obviously holding off as long as possible, thinking that's OK and within the rules. Oh dear.
> 
> I'm getting a bit annoyed now. I can be a bit tetchy when I'm annoyed...


Tubs I cant remember did you put a date on the letter you expect to get a reply back. It is acceptable according to OSCR for you to set the time limit so long as it is reasonable. ( not one or two days but one or two weeks they suggest)

----------


## Wario

Still nothing from these people!!!

I suppose we should not be surprised as Gunn, Carter, Wydmuch and Wares have been leading the people of Caithness a merry dance now for over 10 years.  All that we have ever been told concerning new football stadiums and sports centres have never came true and all the time they were taking our money ::

----------


## Corrie 3

I see someone on here is trying to organise a Flash Mob!!!!!
Now then, where does Gunn live?????

 :Wink:  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

> It is acceptable according to OSCR for you to set the time limit so long as it is reasonable. ( not one or two days but one or two weeks they suggest)


Blast, I wish I'd known that when I sent the letter, no I didn't. I guess they must be being as stinky as they can, and basing the 'reasonable response' time on the moment the cheque cleared.

I've taken a chill pill, and since the WADF are going to spin it out as long as possible, am going to restrict myself to a single post per day, made at 5pm, although I will continue to research. So I guess I'd better make each post a good one!  ::  let's aim for 25 000 views before the information finally arrives!

But that will rely on you all to keep the thread floating. Please don't let it sink off the front page after all this time & effort!

----------


## Tubthumper

> All that we have ever been told concerning new football stadiums and sports centres have never came true and all the time they were taking our money


It will be interesting to see what's been spent, after all this time.

----------


## Tubthumper

> I see someone on here is trying to organise a Flash Mob!!!!!


C3, hanging your bits out isn't going to speed things up! ::

----------


## pat

Well for those folk who have asked any questions about this fund and have not had them answered satisfactorily you can go on here

http://www.oscr.org.uk/Makingacomplaint.stm

and make them aware of your concerns - the more complaints the more likely they are to quickly investigate thoroughly.

Sorry Tubthumper, I am sure you will not mind everyone stealing your thunder and trying to get answers quicker than you appear to be getting them from WADF!

----------


## Tubthumper

No problem Pat, as you say the more people who actually register their concerns the more likely the OSCR are to react, and the more chance there is of getting this sorry (and embarrassing!) saga put to bed.

----------


## W.A.D.F. (SC032787)

The following letter was originally submitted to the editor of North of Scotland Newspapers. Unfortunately, it was deemed to be too long for publication and it was requested that the word count be reduced by >50% before it would be considered. Given the front page headline status of the original article about Wick Academy Development Fund, we were unhappy with this as we felt that it was only fair that it should be published exactly as it was to enable us to answer the questions posed and to enable our side of things to be put across. N.O.S.N. offered to publish it on their website next Friday but that wasn't suitable for us. Given that we have effectively been denied the opportunity to reach all of the local public via the printed John O'Groat Journal newspaper, the letter now appears here in 3 parts!


Dear Editor,
I write in response to the article *Answers Wanted Over Charity Leisure Fund*, which was the front page headline of the 9th of July 2010 edition of the John OGroat Journal. In the article, it was reported that Jamie Stone MSP, had called for details of the Wick Academy Development Fund (W.A.D.F.) to be made available to the Caithness public. Over the last 9 years W.A.D.F. and its committee members have had to endure plenty of bad publicity and it has mainly been due to the often ill conceived views and actions of others. I have therefore endeavoured to address this situation and I have attempted to show the level of transparency and openness that has been called for.
1) The current management committee of W.A.D.F. are: Chairman  John (Jacky) Gunn, Vice-chairman  William (Billy) More, Secretary  Andrew Carter, Treasurer  William Wydmuch & Executive Officer  Allan Wares. Jacky Gunn, Andrew Carter and William Wydmuch are three of the original founder members of W.A.D.F. while Billy More and Allan Wares have served on the committee and the management committee for a number of years.
2) The registered address of W.A.D.F. is: 16 Thurso Street, Wick, Caithness KW1 5LF.
3) The registered Scottish Charity Number of W.A.D.F. is: SC 032787.
4) W.A.D.F. was formed on the 6th of January 2000 by a small group of like minded people who had a keen interest in, and were actively involved in, local sports and leisure activities. Individually, and collectively, they were fed up with the complete lack of proper sports, leisure and recreation facilities which were available to the people of this area especially when compared to other lesser populated localities and they were determined to try and do something to redress this imbalance.
5) Since that date, W.A.D.F. has been trying to quietly and conscientiously go about its business raising funds towards achieving its aim. This quietness has often been misconstrued by our detractors as secrecy. For some reason, what we have achieved or havent achieved, depending on your viewpoint, knowledge and level of expectation, has irked a few people who have then gone out of their way to try and make our lives as difficult as possible.
6) The aim of W.A.D.F. was, and still is, is to provide a much needed sports and leisure and recreation facility for the people of Wick and East Caithness. For phase 1, we envisaged a grass sports pitch and a five hundred seat grandstand incorporating, changing, fitness, leisure and conference facilities with ample associated car parking. Given the background of our management committee, this would unashamedly be aimed at the local football fraternity, although various other grass based sports could readily be accommodated. Additional phases of the proposed development were to incorporate various athletics facilities including a running track; a two-thirds sized football pitch indoor training facility along the lines of those already in use in Scandinavian countries sharing our inclement climate; and an arts performance facility. The area of land that we had been offered would have enabled us to easily incorporate all of these facilities.
7) This may not now be a stand alone facility as was originally envisaged, but could be in the form of an alliance or partnership supporting the development of another body. One possibility that we are currently exploring is whether or not we can become involved in providing the initial funding capital towards any of the leisure and sports developments which may be located at the proposed new Wick High School. It is our wish that the money that we have raised is put to good use and there may well be other ventures that we could become involved in as long as they fall within the remit of our aims and constitution.
8) Since its formation W.A.D.F. has received tremendous support from other charitable groups and trusts that were planning or beginning to operate similar ventures in other areas. One of these trusts was kind enough to loan us the plans of phase 1 of their now up and running facility, and we were also offered valuable technical assistance and encouragement by many of the individuals who were involved with the management of these organisations.
9) W.A.D.F. is a small charity and has no employees. All work undertaken on our behalf, including that of our Independent Financial Examiner, is done entirely voluntarily. Unfortunately O.S.C.R. treats all registered charities the same, irrespective of their size and the manpower and resources that are available to them.
10) Due to an administration oversight, the W.A.D.F. 2009 annual return to the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator (O.S.C.R.) became overdue thereby resulting in W.A.D.F. being flagged up as SENT TO COMPLIANCE on the O.S.C.R. website. Although this is a minor infringement and is in no way an indication of any misappropriation or malpractice, it recently prompted a thread entitled Wick Academy Development Fund to be started on a local internet website message board. This thread received many replies some of which contained veiled threats, defamations, misrepresentations and allegations directed at W.A.D.F. and its management committee members. When W.A.D.F. became aware of this activity, we contacted the website concerned and they took appropriate action by moderating and closing the thread and issuing a warning to future contributors to the thread. We have managed to obtain copies of the messages concerned and we have sought legal advice on this matter and this will be pursued if our advisors deem this to be necessary. There will be regular monitoring of the situation particularly now that the thread has re-opened and is currently attracting a lot of new comments....

CONTINUED IN FURTHER POSTS

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## W.A.D.F. (SC032787)

11) W.A.D.F. has brought the ongoing online message board saga to the attention of O.S.C.R. Particular reference was made to the postings which claimed that a request was sent to us for copies of documents on the 5th of July 2010 to which there has been no reply. This was as assurance against the possibility of a complaint being made to them. The regulator has been notified of these claims and the fact that this request has never actually been received by W.A.D.F.
12) W.A.D.F will without hesitation use the libel laws to protect both the charity, and its management committee members, from any threats, defamations, misrepresentations or allegations which have been made online or via any other medium.
13) In the mean time, the W.A.D.F. annual accounts which had been approved by the management committee at the 2009 A.G.M. and our O.S.C.R. annual return for 2009 were both received and signed by our Secretary before being sent to O.S.C.R. by our Independent Financial Examiner on Wednesday the 7th of July 2010.
14) Having received the relevant documents, O.S.C.R. returned the status of W.A.D.F. on their website to ACTIVE on the 9th of July 2010 i.e. the date that the newspaper article was published. Our annual income of £12,017 and checked annual return for the year ending 31st May 2009 were also displayed. This clearly indicated that the regulatory body had now received, processed and fully approved our annual return. Anyone interested in viewing this information can view it online at: www.oscr.org.uk/CharityIndexDetails.aspx?id=SC032787
15) Many of W.A.D.F.s detractors are under the impression that we have just been in the business of taking money in from the public and have never assisted anyone with it. In fact, up until charitable status was achieved, i.e. at the time when we were still able to, some of our funds were used to bail out and rescue a local football club from the dire financial predicament that they had got themselves into. It is no exaggeration to say that the efforts of W.A.D.F. probably saved that football club from extinction at that time. It is quite ironic then, that so many of those who have seen fit to cause us so much annoyance over the years still have or had strong links to that particular organisation.
16) W.A.D.F. became disillusioned by the lack of effort and interest being shown towards the selling of A-T Lucky Letters lottery tickets by many of those within that football club. They appeared quite content to sit back and be bank-rolled by the efforts of W.A.D.F. rather than be bothered to put in some real effort by themselves. We have no legal obligation to reveal the exact amount of money involved, but it runs to several thousand pounds and appears on our pre-charitable status accounts for that period.
17) The management committee of W.A.D.F became concerned that all the ticket income would be siphoned away and thereby leave nothing for future investment towards the proposed project. They therefore decided to apply for charitable status. In addition this would also bring about future benefits when the time came to apply for additional funding for the project. After due process charitable status was awarded to W.A.D.F. on the 14th of March 2002.
18) The gross income of W.A.D.F. up to our accounting date of the 31st of May 2009 was £260,886.34. This sum was raised almost entirely by the sale of our A-T Lucky Letters lottery tickets and the investment account bank interest that was earned from that.
19) W.A.D.F. has probably sold more A-T Lucky Letters lottery tickets beyond our locality than within it. Many of our regular ticket purchasers worked offshore and knew little or nothing about Wick but were still happy to buy tickets and have a flutter whilst also supporting our aims.
20) The 5 Scrabble style letter tiles drawn at the W.A.D.F. weekly lottery draws were always drawn by independent members of the public. At the outset the draws took place in a local social club and after the demise of that club, it took place in various shop and office premises around Wick. After the weekly draws had taken place, the tickets were then checked in premises which had either been rented as office space or hired on the night for just that purpose. At nearly £13,500.00 the hire of premises has been by far our main expense to date. Our detractors may wish to note that nearly 60% of this outlay was to pay for shared office space that we conveniently rented from the same local football club that we had financially assisted previously. Cost cutting measures saw our accommodation costs being reduced to just £220.00 in the last financial year as we now rely on the goodwill of management committee members for the day to day running of the charity and the housing of any assets etc, and we now only hire premises when absolutely necessary.
21) W.A.D.F. has never received any financial donations or gifts of money from any individuals, businesses or other organisations.
22) W.A.D.F has not yet reached a position whereby we can apply for additional funding but we do have an outline business plan which has been submitted to O.S.C.R. at their request.
23) The net income of W.A.D.F. i.e. the amount of cash in our bank accounts was £132,459.96 as of the 31st of May 2009. This sum easily exceeds that which was originally required as pre-funding capital for the originally planned project.
24) The W.A.D.F. funds are currently held in three bank accounts. One is an operating account and the other two are higher interest investment accounts. All outgoing transactions require to be authorised by any two from three authorised signatories. Due to the continued uncertainty and instability in the banking world, the management committee prudently decided to safeguard the assets of W.A.D.F. by transferring 50% of the accumulated funds that were held in the original higher interest investment account to a new second higher investment account in another bank.
25) W.A.D.F. fully appreciates that the money held in the Fund is fully accountable to the public under the powers and controls of O.S.C.R. but all assets of the Fund belong to W.A.D.F. and are under the jurisdiction of its constitutionally elected management committee. In spite of the misguided claims of some individuals, especially those online, no one has any right to either stake a claim to that money or to tell us, the charitys custodians, what to do with it.
26) There has never been any misappropriation of, or so called trousering of, funds by any of the W.A.D.F. management committee members as has also been claimed or alleged. We take great exception to this obvious slur on our characters as things are actually quite the contrary with many personal expenses regularly being written off, and those expenses that have been claimed have only amounted to around 0.5% of our gross income to date.
27) W.A.D.F. has paid out a total of £97,650 in A-T Lucky Letters lottery jackpot and weekly £10 prizes; a figure which appears to be conveniently disregarded by those who have somehow financially projected that we should by now have in the region of £250,000 in funds sitting in a bank somewhere.

CONTINUED IN ANOTHER POST

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## W.A.D.F. (SC032787)

28) In September 2004, O.S.C.R. initiated an enquiry into the affairs of W.A.D.F. at the behest of a concerned member of the public. Although O.S.C.R. never disclosed the reason(s) for the enquiry being called or the identity of the individual behind it, their identity is known to us. It was however, a surprise to discover that it was a community councillor who had voiced their misguided concerns, but given the prior aggravation that we had received both individually and collectively from this individual and his associates, it shouldnt have been. Two of the O.S.C.R. team travelled north in February 2005 and spent over 3 hours meeting with the W.A.D.F. management committee and our invited advisors. In January 2007, after over 28 months of dialogue, enquiries, document handover, compliance requests, etc, etc, absolutely no evidence of misconduct was found on the part of either W.A.D.F. or any of its management committee members and the enquiry was subsequently closed.
29) As a result of the enquiry, several recommendations were made and W.A.D.F. has fully complied with and implemented those to the satisfaction of O.S.C.R. although the cloud of being monitored will remain over us for an undetermined length of time.
30) Unfortunately, the complaint to O.S.C.R. has had a massive knock on effect. The adverse media publicity at that time and the subsequent fallout from the enquiry has caused problems with W.A.D.F. not being able to acquire the land that the charity had originally been promised. At that time we were at a delicate stage in the proceedings with both the landowner and the acting solicitors. Hopefully all our efforts wont now be undone due to the non-availability of land on which to site a facility. Another consequence of the enquiry was that our carefully forged links with several influential people at leading companies involved in this sphere of activity, have now been damaged due to O.S.C.R. demanding information from them to facilitate their enquiry. Is this then to be viewed as a moral, or should that be an immoral, victory for that community councillor? Either way it is the people of our area who may now suffer due to the over zealous action of that egotistical individual.
31) The adverse publicity generated by the unfounded complaint has also had a detrimental effect on the sales of the W.A.D.F. A-T Lucky Letters lottery tickets. When the last jackpot was won in April 2009, our committee had already made the difficult decision to suspend our weekly lottery ticket sales from that time. W.A.D.F. however, reserves the right to resume the sale of these lottery tickets at any time.
32) Since its formation, W.A.D.F. has received applications for funding from local groups and organisations, both large, and small. Unfortunately, our constitution and stated objectives do not allow us to support other, often deserving, causes which fall outwith that sphere of activity. Despite allegations to the contrary, any application for funding has received the courtesy of a written reply and an explanation to this effect.
33) Copies of the W.A.D.F. accounts and constitution have always been available by application in writing to our registered address. Unfortunately, almost all requests have come from known mischief makers. For this reason a £10.00 administration fee is usually charged but this can and has been waived at our discretion. The mischief makers have complained about this charge but we are perfectly entitled to make it. Obviously, photocopying, printers, cartridges, paper, envelopes, mailing, etc, etc, all cost charities money which is conveniently forgotten by those giving us aggravation. Anyone showing a genuine interest in W.A.D.F. and its aims should find no problem in willingly paying, what is after all a donation to ensure that any incurred costs by a charitable body are minimised or ideally fully covered. Scottish charitable law does not specify a time limit but anyone who has applied in the approved manner has received the documents that they requested within a perfectly reasonable turnaround time.
34) So far, a minority of jealous individuals each with a pretty obvious personal vendetta, have succeeded in knocking W.A.D.F. off course and have somewhat hampered our progress. However they have failed to dampen our enthusiasm and desire, and more importantly, to stop us from delivering something worthwhile to the community. Unfortunately it would appear that some Wickers are so self-centred that they would rather that the wider populace gain nothing as long as their personal axes are ground. If trying to do something for a community that is as deprived and underprivileged as ours is a crime, then W.A.D.F. and its management committee are indeed culpable and guilty as charged.
35) The motto of W.A.D.F. is Working For The Benefit Of The Community; perhaps we should now change this to Still Trying To Work For The Benefit Of The Community. Seriously though, lets hope that common sense prevails for the common good and that the community gets fully behind us and our efforts. Then maybe one day they will all benefit from the work that we have put in so far.
36) W.A.D.F. would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone, both near and afar, for the tremendous financial support that they have given to us so far through the purchase of A-T lucky Letters tickets. We had hoped that our project would have been much further ahead of its present position than it is, but we did not envisage that so many man-made obstacles would be encountered on route.
37) People involved with developments and projects in other areas have applauded W.A.D.F. for their efforts and are quite astonished when they learn of what W.A.D.F have had to overcome whilst trying to do something positive and good for this area.
38) After this open and frank letter, W.A.D.F. now hopes that the journey will get a little easier. The people that we know we are up against have done a lot of damage so far and wont thank us for our revelations but we hope that we can regain the all important respect, trust and support of the public that we require and desire.

Andrew J. Carter,
Secretary
Wick Academy Development Fund (SC 032787)
16 Thurso Street
Wick
KW1 5LF

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## Crackeday

"We have managed to obtain  copies of the messages concerned and we have sought legal advice on this  matter and this will be pursued if our advisors deem this to be  necessary. There will be regular monitoring of the situation  particularly now that the thread has re-opened and is currently  attracting a lot of new comments...."
I notice that you were quick enough to stop the public asking questions but not so quick at providing the information that the "public" requested?
Maybe I am wrong and I will hold my hands up if I am but where is the information that the public requested? Where is the money? How much is there? When (if ever) will we see the finished article? When can we see the accounts?
Too many questions not enough answers maybe we (the public) should seek legal advice as quickly as you have? And by the way who is paying for your "legal advice" is it coming out of the fund??????

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## Tubthumper

Documents have arrived: All that was asked for, and in line with the statements made above by the WADF secretary.

I have no scanner available, wait one while I type out the most interesting & relevant parts.

And as I said in an earlier post, I'm happy that the information has arrived and the WADF have come out and stated their case.

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## Phill

Well that makes a lot of sense. 
Good to hear from the WADF itself, some interesting points.

However I do think it is prudent in this day and age when dealing with public / charitable funds, a regular and open communication to the public works wonders.
In this specific case the NOSN appear to have let you down in your reply.

I am more than happy to donate a domain, web hosting, maintenance basic website design and regular updating of a website for the WADF so further updates can be available to all, and this may help dissuade further mischief makers.

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## Tubthumper

It's just dawned on me, although seeking the information contained in the documents was the aim, if I scan and put them on here, they are in the public domain and that may not be acceptable to WADF - can their representative confirm (either by pm to me or by posting here) that putting the entire document on here is acceptable please? 

I'll assume that posting the cash balance, income & expenditure/ surplus, committee members, remuneration and some information which I think is key to our interest will be acceptable, considering that the previous posts seek to exonerate the WADF committee.

  Audited accounts from May 2010
  Year to 31/5//09
  Income                                     £10686.64
  Payments:                                 £8381.33
  Surplus for year                        2305.31

  Cash balance                            £132,719.96
*
Management Report*
Committee
  Chairman – Jacky Gunn
  Vice Chairman – William More
  Secretary – Andrew Carter
  Treasurer – William Wydmuch
  Executive Officer – Allan Wares

  “Jacky Gunn received reimbursement of £487.86 in respect of expenses regarding collection of tickets. No other person received expenses.”

*Financial Statement*
  "In respect of accounts the reserves are very healthy. However these reserves are necessary for work that requires to be carried out in establishing the Development Fund's current aim to both raise sufficient money to fund a feasibility study into the building of a purpose built leisure facility and also to retain sufficient funds to prime pump other sources of capital aid."

*Principal Activities*
  "The principal activity of the fund during the period was fundraising through the sale of weekly Lucky Letter tickets.

  The Development Fund’s aim was to both raise sufficient money to fund a feasibility study into the building of a purpose built leisure facility and also to retain sufficient funds or assets to prime pump other sources of capital aid.

  Any such leisure facility was dependent on the obtaining of a suitable site in Wick or its environs. A suitable site was provisionally offered in Wick but after the adverse publicity generated by a spurious enquiry by OSCR into the running of the Development Fund it was subsequently withdrawn without explanation.

  The ongoing fallout from the OSCR enquiry, together with increased competition and the economic climate, has resulted in a reduction in ticket sales which resulted in a corresponding increase in the time it would take to achieve the fund’s principal objective. As a result, the fund vacated office premises the previous year and this year ceased further sales of lottery tickets after payment of the final jackpot prize on 28 April 2009.

  In view of the recent announcement of a new High School being promised for Wick, the management committee are awaiting sight of plans to see whether it will now be feasible to use the existing funds to provide a facility within the terms of its principal objective within or adjacent to that building. In the event of there not being significant progress in the following year they will consider distributing the assets of the Fund to other objectives contained within the parameters of its constitution."

From Constitution Issue 3 (Revised 6th May 2010)
*4. Membership*
”Membership is open to any individual aged 18 or over who actively supports the aims & objects of the Fund and to any group or body which actively supports the aims and objects of the Fund.

The management committee shall have the right to refuse membership or to terminate the membership at its discretion; but the member whose termination is under consideration shall have the right to be heard by the management committee before its decision is made. The management committee shall from time to time determine the level of any annual membership subscription and its period of implementation.”

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## Tubthumper

So we (finally) got the information we sought. And there are answers to the queries that were put. The bank balance is healthy, there is a plan for carrying the fund forward.

  As I said in a post earlier on, Wickers should THANK the committee for raising the funds and be GLAD that money has been raised on their behalf. We would HATE for another scandal involving charity funds.

  On a personal note (as I said I would do) I would personally like to apologise for bringing the reputations of the committee into disrepute, and specifically (while the frustration was particularly hard to bear) for calling the committee ‘Charlatans’. There is a satisfied smile upon my face that the information is known, and that no shenanigans have taken place.

  Although I will point out that the progress of this thread has gone a long way to finally bringing the work that the WADF committee has done, on behalf of the Wick community, to the attention of the public, in a way that the committee themselves have not hitherto managed. For that I have no apology.

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## Droopy

This has been a very interesting thread to follow, more so because like everyone else on here we can sit in our sitting rooms and 'nose' behind the anomimity of the internet.

Peoples identity has been insinuated and broadcast on here with no right to reply. I find this rather disturbing, the fact that its guilty until proven innocent. Its modern day Kangaroo court.

Is it any wonder professional bodies act with discretion and integrity when investigating complaints, and only publish the findings once all the facts and figures have been investigated.....its called civil society, this has been an internet witchhunt

There are indeed personal axes to grind and from what I can see only one contributer to this post (apart from W.A.D.F.) has had the courage so far to post under his own name. He may have been questioning the motives of W.A.D.F. but hes a 100 times any other man/woman for it.

We've probably not heard the end of this and who knows whos right or wrong but for all those who seek the truth, or are 'concerned'......... show genuine concern..... by not hiding away in cyberland.

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## jimbews

> behind the anomimity of the internet.
>  . . .
> Peoples identity has been insinuated and broadcast on here with no right to reply.


If anything libellous has been said I think you would find that the ORG is *not* anonymous.
See "Blocked email domains" statement at:
http://forum.caithness.org/showpost....94&postcount=1
I'm sure that a court order would force the ORG to hand over the (traceable) email address of *any* member.

And surely there is a right of reply: in fact W.A.D.F. have just made use of it.

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## Tubthumper

I will however point out that I DID send a letter to the WADF on 5th July 2010, requesting documents.

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## John Little

I have not said much of anythin on this thread because it is a matter local to Wick and I do not consider that I have the right to poke my snitch in matters not linked to me.

However, on a broader front I would like to point out that we live in a (theoretically) open democracy where people may be called to account for what they have done in the public's name.  It does not matter whether that is done in a council chamber, an elected committee or the local club organisation.

That being so I have to say that personally I cannot regard the unfolding nature of this thread as anything like a witch-hunt, for in that situation there is no true accountability and no opportunity to reply.

To me this is and has been a robust and completely healthy example of local democracy in action - on all sides now- and I applaud it enthusiastically.  Something which was festering and causing bad feeling has been well and truly lanced and can now heal.

Good stuff.

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## Tubthumper

Can I just ask one little question regarding items 15-17 post #2 (where the WADF committee bailed out a local football team that was in danger of extinction).
Who were on the committee of the club at that time?

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## Happy Guy

> I have not said much of anythin on this thread because it is a matter local to Wick and I do not consider that I have the right to poke my snitch in matters not linked to me.
> 
> However, on a broader front I would like to point out that we live in a (theoretically) open democracy where people may be called to account for what they have done in the public's name.  It does not matter whether that is done in a council chamber, an elected committee or the local club organisation.
> 
> That being so I have to say that personally I cannot regard the unfolding nature of this thread as anything like a witch-hunt, for in that situation there is no true accountability and no opportunity to reply.
> 
> To me this is and has been a robust and completely healthy example of local democracy in action - on all sides now- and I applaud it enthusiastically.  Something which was festering and causing bad feeling has been well and truly lanced and can now heal.
> 
> Good stuff.


HERE HERE! Well said John Little

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## cuddlepop

> HERE HERE! Well said John Little


 
I'll second that and ask why "they" took so long to respond to a request, :Confused: confused

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## pegasus

> 28) In September 2004, O.S.C.R. initiated an enquiry into the affairs of W.A.D.F. at the behest of a concerned member of the public. Although O.S.C.R. never disclosed the reason(s) for the enquiry being called or the identity of the individual behind it, their identity is known to us. It was however, a surprise to discover that it was a community councillor who had voiced their misguided concerns, but given the prior aggravation that we had received both individually and collectively from this individual and his associates, it shouldnt have been. Two of the O.S.C.R. team travelled north in February 2005 and spent over 3 hours meeting with the W.A.D.F. management committee and our invited advisors. In January 2007, after over 28 months of dialogue, enquiries, document handover, compliance requests, etc, etc, absolutely no evidence of misconduct was found on the part of either W.A.D.F. or any of its management committee members and the enquiry was subsequently closed.
> 29) As a result of the enquiry, several recommendations were made and W.A.D.F. has fully complied with and implemented those to the satisfaction of O.S.C.R. although the cloud of being monitored will remain over us for an undetermined length of time.
> 30) Unfortunately, the complaint to O.S.C.R. has had a massive knock on effect. The adverse media publicity at that time and the subsequent fallout from the enquiry has caused problems with W.A.D.F. not being able to acquire the land that the charity had originally been promised. At that time we were at a delicate stage in the proceedings with both the landowner and the acting solicitors. Hopefully all our efforts wont now be undone due to the non-availability of land on which to site a facility. Another consequence of the enquiry was that our carefully forged links with several influential people at leading companies involved in this sphere of activity, have now been damaged due to O.S.C.R. demanding information from them to facilitate their enquiry. Is this then to be viewed as a moral, or should that be an immoral, victory for that community councillor? Either way it is the people of our area who may now suffer due to the over zealous action of that egotistical individual.
> 31) The adverse publicity generated by the unfounded complaint has also had a detrimental effect on the sales of the W.A.D.F. A-T Lucky Letters lottery tickets. When the last jackpot was won in April 2009, our committee had already made the difficult decision to suspend our weekly lottery ticket sales from that time. W.A.D.F. however, reserves the right to resume the sale of these lottery tickets at any time.
> 32) Since its formation, W.A.D.F. has received applications for funding from local groups and organisations, both large, and small. Unfortunately, our constitution and stated objectives do not allow us to support other, often deserving, causes which fall outwith that sphere of activity. Despite allegations to the contrary, any application for funding has received the courtesy of a written reply and an explanation to this effect.
> 33) Copies of the W.A.D.F. accounts and constitution have always been available by application in writing to our registered address. Unfortunately, almost all requests have come from known mischief makers. For this reason a £10.00 administration fee is usually charged but this can and has been waived at our discretion. The mischief makers have complained about this charge but we are perfectly entitled to make it. Obviously, photocopying, printers, cartridges, paper, envelopes, mailing, etc, etc, all cost charities money which is conveniently forgotten by those giving us aggravation. Anyone showing a genuine interest in W.A.D.F. and its aims should find no problem in willingly paying, what is after all a donation to ensure that any incurred costs by a charitable body are minimised or ideally fully covered. Scottish charitable law does not specify a time limit but anyone who has applied in the approved manner has received the documents that they requested within a perfectly reasonable turnaround time.
> 34) So far, a minority of jealous individuals each with a pretty obvious personal vendetta, have succeeded in knocking W.A.D.F. off course and have somewhat hampered our progress. However they have failed to dampen our enthusiasm and desire, and more importantly, to stop us from delivering something worthwhile to the community. Unfortunately it would appear that some Wickers are so self-centred that they would rather that the wider populace gain nothing as long as their personal axes are ground. If trying to do something for a community that is as deprived and underprivileged as ours is a crime, then W.A.D.F. and its management committee are indeed culpable and guilty as charged.
> 35) The motto of W.A.D.F. is Working For The Benefit Of The Community; perhaps we should now change this to Still Trying To Work For The Benefit Of The Community. Seriously though, lets hope that common sense prevails for the common good and that the community gets fully behind us and our efforts. Then maybe one day they will all benefit from the work that we have put in so far.
> 36) W.A.D.F. would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone, both near and afar, for the tremendous financial support that they have given to us so far through the purchase of A-T lucky Letters tickets. We had hoped that our project would have been much further ahead of its present position than it is, but we did not envisage that so many man-made obstacles would be encountered on route.
> ...


you said "dampen our enthusiasm and desire, and more importantly, to stop us from delivering something worthwhile to the community," but just what have you deliverede to the comunity after 10 years and having taken well over a quarter of a milion pounds?

why is the field unavaliable? why has is taken 10 years to reach 'delicate' negotaitiosn?

when and where i sthe 2010 AGM?

why do y9ou keep saying that people who quesitopn you are 'vindictive' and that you 'knows who they are'?!

why are you constantly theratening legal action rather than just providfing simplke details? get on with it if you wants to take legal action.

why did renting a room once a week for a lotery draw cost £13,500 ? how come it suddeninly isnt necesary now?

for such massive (3) posts, you seem to have said nothing but made a few threats and starnge claioms.

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## pegasus

sorry to be one of "those giving us aggravation" but do yu have a list of names and adresses of the lottery draw winners over the years?

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## Tubthumper

With the 'libel' laws firmly in my mind, I just want to clarify a few facts. After all, debate and discussion are permissible in civil society, and it's always good to query what someone presents angrily as 'facts'.

15) ...up until charitable status was  achieved, i.e. at the time when we were still able to, some of our funds  were used to bail out and rescue a local football club from the dire  financial predicament that they had got themselves into. It is no  exaggeration to say that the efforts of W.A.D.F. probably saved that  football club from extinction at that time. 
And the Chairman and Secretary of the club (which was threatened with extinction, and was sorely lacking funds (see previous post) were Jacky Gunn and Andrew Carter (returned unopposed in 2002)!
It seems ironic that you raised funds in the club's name, restricted access to them for same club (which you led) and which you say so desparately needed money. How would it have looked if the club HAD become extinct due to lack of cash, while a substantial pot of cash had been raised for it?

It is quite ironic then,  that so many of those who have seen fit to cause us so much annoyance  over the years still have or had strong links to that particular  organisation.
Perhaps they were quite entitled to be annoyed with those involved, for raising a lot of money using the club's name, while in executive positions of the club, then refusing to allow the club access to that money.

16) W.A.D.F.  became disillusioned by the lack of effort and interest being shown  towards the selling of A-T Lucky Letters lottery tickets by many of  those within that football club. They appeared quite content to sit back  and be bank-rolled by the efforts of W.A.D.F. rather than be bothered  to put in some real effort by themselves. 
But YOU were chairman & secretary, YOU refused to let others join the fund or know how much was in it and YOU were supposed to be in charge of the club. Is it any surprise people got disillusioned?

17) The  management committee of W.A.D.F [led by the chairman and Secretary of WAFC] became concerned that all the ticket  income would be siphoned away [presumably by Developing Wick Academy FC] and thereby leave nothing for future  investment towards the proposed project [Which, I am sure, was primarily concerned with building a stadium complex for the local Highland League Football Team, as both of the main movers of the DF were in executive positions with the FC]. They therefore decided to apply  for charitable status. In addition this would also bring about future  benefits when the time came to apply for additional funding for the  project. After due process charitable status was awarded to W.A.D.F. on  the 14th of March 2002 [While Mr Gunn and Mr Carter were still Chairman & Secretary of the football club of the same name, which was in dire straits, for which many people thought they'd bought tickets to help build a stadium complex for, which was 'under threat of extinction', and in need of financial help].

I don't get it. ::

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## DeHaviLand

You're not supposed to "get it" Tubs. You're just supposed to accept this version of events as Gospel, and drop what interest you have in the running of WADF. Now be a good boy, and run along. Nothing to see here. Can anyone tell me where the 'irony' smiley is please? ::

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## lynne duncan

just imagine WADF if you had had the decency to publish the required informaton in the first place how much of this thread would not have been required, you are a public domain as is anyone who takes public money to fund anything for the public's benefit, and it is shameful that you threaten people with legal action. 

the folk of wick have had the rug pulled out from them enough with the debacle of the gala money, 
I'm all for supporting the townspeople efforts to raise monies to benefit the town, heaven knows we'll need to continue doing so in the current financial climate.

you want what we want - something to benefit the town - just stop being old brigade (working behind closed doors) and allow new blood in to help you.

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## cuddlepop

If its decided that an "all singing and dancing" Community School is built in Caithness, will there be any need for another sporting facility and if not what happens to the money that has been raised?

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## Tubthumper

> What will happen to the money if its decided that because the new "community school" will have all the required sporting activities available there then?.


The WADF have said they will work with the developers in partnership, and consider combining their money with other funds. Which is sensible and a great idea. After all £135 000 won't go far for a complex, and there would have had to be matching funding combined in for a complex anyway. 
They said that in their annual report, I'm sure I posted the relevant bit earlier. Good for them, say I! :Smile:

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## cuddlepop

> The WADF have said they will work with the developers in partnership, and consider combining their money with other funds. Which is sensible and a great idea. After all £135 000 won't go far for a complex, and there would have had to be matching funding combined in for a complex anyway. 
> They said that in their annual report, I'm sure I posted the relevant bit earlier. Good for them, say I!


You probably did,its me not reading everything properly.

Wouldnt it be better to ask if the locals who raised the money if they wanted it to be part of a Highland Council funded new build.

£135 000 would give the kids a new park as long as land was available. :Smile:

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## Phill

> £135 000 would give the kids a new park as long as land was available.


£135k could kick start bigger things.

Maybe if the WADF had been a bit more open and up front they wouldn't have lost the public's confidence and would have been able to carry on selling the lottery tickets and raising more funds, that may have made the £135k £150k by now.

Maybe, just maybe, a bit more interaction with the public about what going on could see the WADF better supported and helped to further achieve it's aims (get selling lottery tickets again).

My offer of a website is a serious one. I would think Bill / Niall Fernie could find a bit of space on the .org. Even a sticky thread on here would help.

A bit more transparency and interaction and you never know, maybe some land could be found (or offer reinstated).

A more public campaign may bring help from those more experienced in raising funds professionally i.e. like lottery funding, Sports councils, EU grants and the like (I'm not knocking what has been done already or the efforts of the WADF so far but there are people who know a lot more about finding funding).

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## Alice in Blunderland

> 5) Since that date, W.A.D.F. has been trying to quietly and conscientiously go about its business raising funds towards achieving its aim. This quietness has often been misconstrued by our detractors as secrecy. For some reason, what we have achieved or havent achieved, depending on your viewpoint, knowledge and level of expectation, has irked a few people who have then gone out of their way to try and make our lives as difficult as possible.


I would like to comment on this section.

I feel that if a charity trying to raise money for a set goal wants to achieve this, would it not be best to get out their and get yourselves known to as many as possible be as loud as possible ? 

Attract publicity of the right kind so that many know what you are trying to achieve and can support it. 

You have fallen foul of being accused of secrecy before so why not address this by being as open as you can. Many organisations use this same media ( Caithness.org ) to let many know what they are up too for free. Interact more with the public.

Quietly going about your business has indeed had a negative affect on your operations and this is not *all* the fault of mischief makers or irked people. 

*Charitable organisations need as much publicity and attention of a positive kind as possible to help rake in the money.*

Now is the time to step back and take a good hard look at how this should proceed and gain back the confidence which many seem to have lost in this organisation.

The only losers are the people of Wick who still do not seem to be anywhere near what your initial 'goal' was.


You are hoping that the journey will now become a little easier, it can only become easier when the driver at the wheel of this organisation takes on the complaints of the passengers, listens and changes how he is driving to make the journey better for all.  :Smile:

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## pat

Now this committee have opened up when are they going to hold OPEN meetings, when and where are the AGM or EGM being held?  
I am sure there will be lots of folk interested in now being able to find out what is going to happen to the money so far raised - this committe must remember it is not their money to do as THEY wish.   This money has been donated to benefit the Public of Wick and areas.
Why has it taken this 'committee' so long to answer - if they had been open and above board in the first place NOBODY would be having to ask questions.
The committee appear to still be extremely arrogant in their attitude to their 'GIVING PUBLIC' by their statements here on Caithness.org  - how many of the 'Giving Public' will now donate to a charity which appears extremely relucant to be open and crystal clear in their operation, then appears annoyed at folk when the 'Giving Public' ask pertinent and relevant questions about their operation and to know how the money has been spent and what plans are ongoing for this Fund.
I believe an end must come now to this Fund, the money already donated should be amalgamated with one/some of the other charities seeking to improve facilities in Caithness or divided amongst several projects - I believe the chances of this charity raising more money now is extremely limited, wind up before all the money is spent on administration and travelling costs.

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## Alice in Blunderland

> The aim of W.A.D.F. was, and still is, is to provide a much needed sports and leisure and recreation facility for the people of Wick and East Caithness. For phase 1, we envisaged a grass sports pitch and a five hundred seat grandstand incorporating, changing, fitness, leisure and conference facilities with ample associated car parking. Given the background of our management committee, this would unashamedly be aimed at the local football fraternity, although various other grass based sports could readily be accommodated. Additional phases of the proposed development were to incorporate various athletics facilities including a running track; a two-thirds sized football pitch indoor training facility along the lines of those already in use in Scandinavian countries sharing our inclement climate; and an arts performance facility. The area of land that we had been offered would have enabled us to easily incorporate all of these facilities.


You have already stated that you have pulled away from Wick Academy over concerns of syphoning money to this group but would it not be an idea to see if you can settle your differences and work with them again. They already have a site with parking which could be jointly developed further. They also have a massive support from the people of Wick and East Caithness and lots of good publicity.  :Smile:

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## Alice in Blunderland

> The aim of W.A.D.F. was, and still is, is to provide a much needed sports and leisure and recreation facility for the people of Wick and East Caithness. For phase 1, we envisaged a grass sports pitch and a five hundred seat grandstand incorporating, changing, fitness, leisure and conference facilities with ample associated car parking. Given the background of our management committee, this would unashamedly be aimed at the local football fraternity, although various other grass based sports could readily be accommodated. Additional phases of the proposed development were to incorporate various athletics facilities including a running track; a two-thirds sized football pitch indoor training facility along the lines of those already in use in Scandinavian countries sharing our inclement climate; and an arts performance facility. The area of land that we had been offered would have enabled us to easily incorporate all of these facilities.


On the other hand if you look at the proposals for the new High School you will note that a running track and sports facilities and most of the other facilities in your statement are being incorporated into this site. Wick deserves the best possible facility and an approach to Highland Council or any of the local councillors would be no doubt welcomed by your organisation. There is no point in two bodies working separately towards the same goal. 

When W.A.D.F. set up there was no prospect of Wick possibly ever receiving these facilities however times have changed and it looks like this very facility in time will now be getting built by Highland Council as part of the High School development.  :Smile: 

Just a suggestion not mischief making

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## Alice in Blunderland

> W.A.D.F. is a small charity and has no employees. All work undertaken on our behalf, including that of our Independent Financial Examiner, is done entirely voluntarily. Unfortunately O.S.C.R. treats all registered charities the same, irrespective of their size and the manpower and resources that are available to them.


No fortunately, all organisations are and should be treated equally regardless of size, manpower and resources.

This ensures that all organisations know where they stand and what is expected from them. :Smile:

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## Corrie 3

> I believe the chances of this charity raising more money now is extremely limited, wind up before all the money is spent on administration and travelling costs.


 I agree Pat, I think the chances of anyone giving any money in the future is zero.!!!!!...Once bitten, twice shy comes to mind.... :Frown:  :Frown:

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## Blarney

_At nearly £13,500.00 the hire of premises has been by far our main expense to date. Our detractors may wish to note that nearly 60% of this outlay was to pay for shared office space that we conveniently rented from the same local football club that we had financially assisted previously. Cost cutting measures saw our accommodation costs being reduced to just £220.00 in the last financial year as we now rely on the goodwill of management committee members for the day to day running of the charity and the housing of any assets etc, and we now only hire premises when absolutely necessary._

I would suggest that the cost cutting measures should have been implemented sooner before they scandalously wasted such a huge sum of public money.........................

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## Happy Guy

> _At nearly £13,500.00 the hire of premises has been by far our main expense to date. Our detractors may wish to note that nearly 60% of this outlay was to pay for shared office space that we conveniently rented from the same local football club that we had financially assisted previously. Cost cutting measures saw our accommodation costs being reduced to just £220.00 in the last financial year as we now rely on the goodwill of management committee members for the day to day running of the charity and the housing of any assets etc, and we now only hire premises when absolutely necessary._
> 
> I would suggest that the cost cutting measures should have been implemented sooner before they scandalously wasted such a huge sum of public money.........................


Unless I have missed something, the charity has not recently held any public meetings, and the committee is small in number, so I cannot see why there could EVER have been a need to HIRE accommodation or rooms?

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## Alice in Blunderland

All the talk of solicitors and action seems to have had an affect !   :Frown: 

I do hope that some of the helpful suggestions made by interested people will be taken on board so that things can move forward.....................

However I agree with Pat and possibly things will never be able to move on unless there is a big change.  :Smile: 

Lack of public confidence rightly or wrongly will not help any charitable organisation improve its bank balance.

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## pat

Anyone found out yet when a general meeting of some type is to be held - it is meant to be advertised in the local press for all to see and be able to attend such meeting but I have not found any sign of one having been advertised for a very long time, so one should be scheduled very soon.

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## Wario

25) W.A.D.F. fully appreciates that the money held in the Fund is fully accountable to the public under the powers and controls of O.S.C.R. but all assets of the Fund belong to W.A.D.F. and are under the jurisdiction of its constitutionally elected management committee. In spite of the misguided claims of some individuals, especially those online, no one has any right to either stake a claim to that money or to tell us, the charity’s custodians, what to do with it.

Pat, I am afraid there will be no open meeting arranged by the famous five running this chaity. I doubt they have ever had any public meetings before and it is quite clear from the quote above that no one is going to tell them what to do. 

The only opportunity is to apply to Mr Carter for membership. When you consider that they have a history of losing members I am not confident of your chances.

Perhaps this is the way forward. A dozen upstanding pillars of the community(can we find those from org members?) apply for membership and we can see what response they get!

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## pegasus

> you said "dampen our enthusiasm and desire, and more importantly, to stop us from delivering something worthwhile to the community," but just what have you deliverede to the comunity after 10 years and having taken well over a quarter of a milion pounds?
> 
> why is the field unavaliable? why has is taken 10 years to reach 'delicate' negotaitiosn?
> 
> when and where i sthe 2010 AGM?
> 
> why do y9ou keep saying that people who quesitopn you are 'vindictive' and that you 'knows who they are'?!
> 
> why are you constantly theratening legal action rather than just providfing simplke details? get on with it if you wants to take legal action.
> ...


mr carter you have had almost 4 days to anwser these and otherquestions. but you have answered not 1.

what is the problem?

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## pat

am asking OSCR about the legality of not advertising an AGM or EGM.  

If the present committe have been holding  AGMs or EGMs why are the public not allowed to know about these meetings or be able to attend - pretty sure this is completely against all OSCRs guidelines .  

Does anyone know if any AGM or EGM has been held?

Wonder what the answer will be when OSCR reply to my questions.  At least I know OSCR will answer my questions and OSCR have open lines of communication and information, not trying to hide behind a committee who tries to mislead and make vague threatening inuendos to anyone asking for information this committee does not appear to want to openly give..

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## Alice in Blunderland

> 11) W.A.D.F. has brought the ongoing online message board saga to the attention of O.S.C.R. Particular reference was made to the postings which claimed that a request was sent to us for copies of documents on the 5th of July 2010 to which there has been no reply. This was as assurance against the possibility of a complaint being made to them. The regulator has been notified of these claims and the fact that this request has never actually been received by W.A.D.F.



This means nothing as its your word against there's however drawing OSCRS attention to this thread has been a good action I would say and I am sure they would have already had it drawn to their attention for various reasons.   




> 12) W.A.D.F will without hesitation use the libel laws to protect both the charity, and its management committee members, from any threats, defamations, misrepresentations or allegations which have been made online or via any other medium.


Its a shame you have felt this necessary as a simple step of being more open and communicative with the public would have been suffice.

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## pegasus

> Its a shame you have felt this necessary as a simple step of being more open and communicative with the public would have been suffice.


there wont be any legal action. they havent got a leg to stand on.

and interested parties would thane be enttiled to know who was paying the legal bill: the comottee members personally or the fund

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## Alice in Blunderland

> there wont be any legal action. they havent got a leg to stand on.


True but the threat is enough to frighten some people away from asking questions or talking tough to at least goad them into a reply. I notice the reply only came forth once the accusations started flying. Simple questions get the silent treatment.  ::  Tough talking from an organisation to members of the worried public.

If every councillor in the county threatened the same action for all the statements I have seen on the org there would be a queue of solicitors lining up to have a full time job.  ::

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## pegasus

> True but the threat is enough to frighten some people away from asking questions or talking tough to at least goad them into a reply. I notice the reply only came forth once the accusations started flying. Simple questions get the silent treatment.  Tough talking from an organisation to members of the worried public.


Yes. But if there is any action it should come from the local people. moneyt was suppliedfor a particular purpose and in good faith. at this point a contract has been created.consaideration (money) has been suplied by members of the public and a  consideration (facilities/amenities) has been promised to those members of the publicv by the people who have been constantly and deliberately taking the money supplied to them over a very long period of tim e.

if 2 or more suppliers of money to this fund get together they could sue wadf and the members of the commitee for breach of contract and the court could order the return of the moneyu to the local people or appoint a trustee to administer the fund for the benefit of the local people

any missing moneyu could be recouped from the indivaul members of the seemingley secret society: gunn, carter and the rest, so long as they were mentioned by name in the inital legal action.

this is my understanding of the matter. Gunn, acrter and co could call the AGM or an egm and explain to the public why they have so far failed to honouyr there side of the contract in order to avert this legal action

*the local poeple shouild take the initative.* forget Carter's threats; thats all hot air

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## Alice in Blunderland

> *the local poeple shouild take the initative.*



From what some of the posters have been posting it looks like quite a few already have.  :Smile:  Not all of them local.

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## Tubthumper

> £135k could kick start bigger things.
> 
> Maybe if the WADF had been a bit more open and up front they wouldn't have lost the public's confidence and would have been able to carry on selling the lottery tickets and raising more funds, that may have made the £135k £150k by now.
> 
> Maybe, just maybe, a bit more interaction with the public about what going on could see the WADF better supported and helped to further achieve it's aims (get selling lottery tickets again).
> 
> My offer of a website is a serious one. I would think Bill / Niall Fernie could find a bit of space on the .org. Even a sticky thread on here would help.
> 
> A bit more transparency and interaction and you never know, maybe some land could be found (or offer reinstated).
> ...


Perhaps a couple of fresh people on the committee? But that would need a few fresh members of the WADF overall. 

No point in me applying, I suspect I have too much 'mischief-making' potential I suppose. But anyone else fancy helping steer the fund, at a crucial point where either rebranding and relaunching it, or looking at options for partnerships is on the agenda. For your community?

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## Tubthumper

> ... it can only become easier when the driver at the wheel of this organisation takes on the complaints of the passengers, listens and changes how he is driving to make the journey better for all.


Or perhaps a new driver is found?

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## Tubthumper

_"The Fund shall hold each year an annual general meeting which shall be  held within 15 months of the previous annual general meeting to:
_ 
_Approve the minutes of the previous meeting;__Receive the annual report  from the chairman;__Adopt the annual accounts;__Elect the honorary officers  and ordinary committee members;__Appoint an independent examiner or  auditor, as appropriate for the accounts;__Deal with any other competent  business."_
So we have to establish when the next AGM is (or when the last AGM was).

_"An extraordinary general meeting shall be called by an application in  writing to the secretary either supported by at least six members of the  fund or received from the management committee, stating the business to  be transacted at the meeting."_

And we need to establish how many members there are, how many applications to join there have been, and (so we can make the appropriate representations for ourselves) the reasons any rejections were based on. 

And then those of us who are really interested in the well-being of the Wick community will apply to join, by applying in writing to the Secretary. :Smile: 

'Working On Behalf Of The Community'

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## Alice in Blunderland

> _"The Fund shall hold each year an annual general meeting which shall be  held within 15 months of the previous annual general meeting to:
> _ 
> _Approve the minutes of the previous meeting;__Receive the annual report  from the chairman;__Adopt the annual accounts;__Elect the honorary oficers  and ordinary committee members;__Appoint an independent examiner or  auditor, as appropriate for the accounts;__Deal with any other competent  business."_
> So we have to establish when the next AGM is (or when the last AGM was).
> 
> _"An extraordinary general meeting shall be called by an application in  writing to the secretary either supported by at least six members of the  fund or received from the management committee, stating the business to  be transacted at the meeting."_
> 
> And we need to establish how many members there are, how many applications to join there have been, and (so we can make the appropriate representations for ourselves) the reasons any rejections were based on. 
> 
> ...


I dont need a crystal ball to tell you your chances of getting onto the committee.  ::  Even if your application was written on £100 notes.  :Wink: 

They would keep your application and send you your refusal on ordinary paper recorded delivery of course.  :: 


Now for the small print................................

edit :this reply was written without prejudice just in case !!

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## Tubthumper

_"9. Voting and Quorum
With the exception of changes to the constitution and dissolution  of the fund, decisions put to a vote shall be resolved by a simple majority; the chair of the meeting shall hold a casting vote to be used where there has been an equality of votes cast.
The quorum at annual general meetings shall be five; the quorum at management committee meetings shall be three or such number as the committee may from time to time determine"

_And from the Financial Statement:_
Committee Members: Vacancies

_So let me get this straight:

There are currently only 5 Fund members, and they are all having to act as office bearers due to the lack of any other membersThe 5 members of the Committee have the power to select or reject any application for membership of the FundThe Fund's membership (ie the 5 members comprising the committee) elect the office bearers from within the membership (ie the 5 members comprising the committee)The minutes of the meetings are circulated to all members of the Fund (ie the 5 members comprising the committee)No announcement is needed for the AGM, as the 5 members who are entitled to attend and vote are all on the committee (with the power to select or reject additional membership applications, and who exclusively see the the minutes of meetings where such applications were considered)6 members are required to call an EGMAnd 6 members are required to change the constitution!
It's a pity there are not more interested people getting involved. All charities have the same problem, not enough people to help shoulder the burden. Come on folks. lets all join and help them out!  ::

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## Tubthumper

_"12. Changes to the Constitution
Any change to the constitution shall require a two thirds majority of those members present and voting at a general meeting called to consider such a motion. No change shall be made which would have the effect of causing the fund to cease to be recognised by the Inland Revenue as a charity. Proposed changes to the constitution must be proposed by the management committee or six members of the Fund in writing to the Secretary"
13. Dissolution
Dissolution of the fund shall require a two thirds majority of those members present and voting at a general meeting called to consider such a motion.
In the event of the dissolution of the fund any assets remaining shall not be distributed among the members of the fund but shall be given to such other Caithness charity or charities, with similar aims and objects as the members of the Fund by a simple majority shall determine."_

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## Tubthumper

> You have already stated that you have pulled away from Wick Academy over concerns of syphoning money to this group but would it not be an idea to see if you can settle your differences and work with them again. They already have a site with parking which could be jointly developed further. They also have a massive support from the people of Wick and East Caithness and lots of good publicity.


That is eminently sensible road in my view. It's (apparently) what the fund was originally set up to do.

Getting to a position where old arguments are put to bed is one of the reasons for having lots of new members, and a bigger 'pool' to select office bearers from. Tired people can hand over the reins and take a rest, and all the old animosity can be forgotten about.

And to clarify another of the somewhat spluttering assertions made by the WADF Secretary in his post #2 on ownership of 'their money', the _membership_ of the Fund decide the fate of the funds it has collected and stored on the public's behalf. And some kind of restriction on membership could be viewed as slightly strange; almost as strange as something like, let's say, inappropriate behaviour by a trustee being tolerated by a charity committee or the Regulator.  :Smile:

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## Alice in Blunderland

> That is eminently sensible road in my view. It's (apparently) what the fund was originally set up to do.


That's what I thought as well.

The fund bears the name of the football team and if they were originally set up to help the football team then maybe its time to forgive, forget and move forward for the benefit of the public,many of whom are still buying the football teams tickets.  :Smile:

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## Alice in Blunderland

> There are currently only 5 Fund members, and they are all having to act as office bearers due to the lack of any other membersThe 5 members of the Committee have the power to select or reject any application for membership of the FundThe Fund's membership (ie the 5 members comprising the committee) elect the office bearers from within the membership (ie the 5 members comprising the committee)The minutes of the meetings are circulated to all members of the Fund (ie the 5 members comprising the committee)No announcement is needed for the AGM, as the 5 members who are entitled to attend and vote are all on the committee (with the power to select or reject additional membership applications, and who exclusively see the the minutes of meetings where such applications were considered)6 members are required to call an EGMAnd 6 members are required to change the constitution!


Let me see .............................if you have got this right then a blind man can see this set up looks very bad and very heavily weighted to keeping this funds committee a closed group. I would hazard a guess that this constitution was drawn up after the big fall out ! ::

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## pat

What would happen if any/some of them became incapacitated and were no longer able to take part in " the committee" meetings?

There appears as if there is no mention of having to have a quorum attending before they hold a meeting - extremely strange form for any committee.

Appears as if they make up the rules as they see fit at the moment - sure that will not be acceptable as far as OSCR are concerned, will have to wait for the answers to my questions to them about the validity of this committee.

----------


## Tubthumper

Pat- re voting & quorum (post #326)_
"9. Voting and Quorum
With the exception of changes to the constitution and dissolution  of  the fund, decisions put to a vote shall be resolved by a simple  majority; the chair of the meeting shall hold a casting vote to be used  where there has been an equality of votes cast.
The quorum at annual general meetings shall be five; the quorum at  management committee meetings shall be three or such number as the  committee may from time to time determine"_

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> What would happen if any/some of them became incapacitated and were no longer able to take part in " the committee" meetings?


Oh pat careful this thread is being closely monitered should there be a need for legal action  :: 

This may be taken as a veiled threat.   ::  only kidding  :Wink:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> The quorum at annual general meetings shall be five; the quorum at  management committee meetings shall be three or such number as the  committee may from time to time determine"[/I]


Would this mean that if a couple of them decided to get together at a meeting to vote on something then they could   ::

----------


## pat

Tubthumper - thanks for pointing the 5 at AGM - that was what I meant about any of "the committee" being incapacitated in any way and unable to attend - holiday, jail, hospital, jury service, family needs, etc -things which are extremely difficult to evade/avoid to attend an AGM of a "charity".  
If they are unable to have a quorum at the AGM do they continue with meeting which makes the meeting noncompliant with their constitution and therefore any discussions and decisions nul and void and another AGM/EGM should be called at a later date to enable all 5 members to attend.


A-i-B - yes that was also what I was meaning.  
If some of them wanted a decision to go one way all they appear to have to do is call a meeting when they knew the objectors or people against the idea, were unable to attend, that way they get their majority.  
Simple or is it me being extremely suspicious of a committee which does not appear to stand up to much scrutiny?   
How much notice of a meeting has to be given, can one be called without notice and then the decision given to the members who were not there!


This appears one committee I would like to be involved with - it may solve some of my questions.

----------


## Tubthumper

> This appears one committee I would like to be involved with - it may solve some of my questions.


Bearing in mind the furore that was created by Wickers over the Gala funds affair, I would guess that a fair few will be wishing to join the WADF, now they've come out and stated their case. And as it seems that they're awful short of members and (like so many other groups) struggling to muster a committee. 
Seems a simple enough process (and I can't see any reference to a membership fee), just write to:

The Secretary
WADF
16 Thurso Street
Wick
Caithness KW1 5LF

_"4. Membership
Membership is open to any individual aged 18 or over who actively  supports the aims & objects of the Fund and to any group or body  which actively supports the aims and objects of the Fund.

The management committee shall have the right to refuse membership or to  terminate the membership at its discretion; but the member whose  termination is under consideration shall have the right to be heard by  the management committee before its decision is made. The management  committee shall from time to time determine the level of any annual  membership subscription and its period of implementation.”_ 

But of course, they would have to have a good reason for refusing, and note that membership is not restricted to people in Wick & environs.

Come on, orgers, a charity needs members and a committee, let's all stand up and be counted!

*"Working On Behalf Of The Community!"*

----------


## Happy Guy

_The management committee shall have the right to refuse membership or  to  terminate the membership at its discretion; but the member whose   termination is under consideration shall have the right to be heard by   the management committee before its decision is made. The management   committee shall from time to time determine the level of any annual   membership subscription and its period of implementation.”_ 

There is a reference to membership fees (see above) and I suspect that if a significant number of  new membership applications arrive, we will see the above rule rapidly implemented. I wonder at what level?

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> _The management committee shall have the right to refuse membership or  to  terminate the membership at its discretion; but the member whose   termination is under consideration shall have the right to be heard by   the management committee before its decision is made. The management   committee shall from time to time determine the level of any annual   membership subscription and its period of implementation.”_ 
> 
> There is a reference to membership fees (see above) and I suspect that if a significant number of  new membership applications arrive, we will see the above rule rapidly implemented. I wonder at what level?


With OSCR watching what is happening I doubt implementing this rule at present would be a very wise move.

 Bearing in mind this thread has been brought to their attention.

----------


## Tubthumper

> ... I suspect that if a significant number of  new membership applications arrive, we will see the above rule rapidly implemented. I wonder at what level?


I would expect any membership fee to be minimal, just to cover the costs of printing membership cards, extra minutes & agendas, plus posting. However the membership might decide on a regular newsletter, or at the very least a website as Phill has suggested which might add a wee cost. 

And at some point it might be more economical to announce the AGM in the Groat rather than sending out individual invites, although I suppose we'll all have to get the minutes & agenda anyway.

We can discuss all these things at the AGM.  :Grin:

----------


## Tubthumper

At the AGM and other meetings we, as WADF members, will be able to decide how to raise more cash for the sports stadium project, seeing as the A-T Tickets are unviable. 

But I'm telling you now, there is *no way* I'm doing a sponsored bike ride in a mankini! 

My saddlebags couldn't stand the chafing!  ::

----------


## Happy Guy

> But I'm telling you now, there is *no way* I'm doing a sponsored bike ride in a mankini! 
> 
> My saddlebags couldn't stand the chafing!


aww now you've dissapointed all the ladies on the org!

----------


## crayola

I found this using Google



> The chairmen confirmed that after travelling thousands of miles and speaking to a lot of people he was even more confident that the new stadium described as a community based project will go ahead and asked for the backing of everyone. Mr Gunn hopes the funding will be in place by the end of the year and the first of a rolling programme of grants will be applied for. While the members supported the project there was concern that there was a cloud of secrecy surrounding the whole issue but Mr Gunn denied this and said that the development fund's AGM will be held shortly and applications for membership could be had from Andrew Carter. A number of sites have been identified and the club are confident that they will get a site and appropriate planning permission. It is hoped that details of the plans will be highlighted in the Groat once they are finalised.


This sounds good doesn't it tubs?  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

It's about time too! When was this Crayola?

----------


## crayola

> It's about time too! When was this Crayola?


It's dated 25/05/2001  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

> It's dated 25/05/2001


Oh. Should have guessed. 

The delay will be because of all these pesky mischief-makers who are dead against a sports complex for Wick, as the Secretary points out in his earlier rants posts.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> The delay will be because of all these pesky mischief-makers who are dead against a sports complex for Wick, as the Secretary points out in his earlier rants posts.



SO its all YOUR FAULT then !!    ::  Bend over time for a kick in the .....  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

> SO its all YOUR FAULT then !!


What did I do?  ::  I only want to help get this thing moving again, get a sports complex for Wick back onto the cards!

I'm serious!

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> I'm serious!



I know you are keep up the good work  :Grin: 


Loving your signature   :Grin:

----------


## Tubthumper

> It's dated 25/05/2001


There's been no progress in 9 years, that's why we need fresh members joining.

I've sent my application in (recorded of course). I hope the present membership understand that I'm doing all this to help get the sports complex project back into the public eye and keep it there. And as a member I can bring a lot of fundraising, PR and project management expertise (plus enthusiasm and humour) to the table.

----------


## Amy-Winehouse

> There's been no progress in 9 years, that's why we need fresh members joining.
> 
> I've sent my application in (recorded of course). I hope the present membership understand that I'm doing all this to help get the sports complex project back into the public eye and keep it there. And as a member I can bring a lot of fundraising, PR and project management expertise (plus enthusiasm and humour) to the table.


Tenner says you dont get in nor a reply  ::

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> And as a member I can bring a lot of fundraising, PR and project management expertise (plus enthusiasm and humour) to the table.


I bet some would rather it was your head on a plate that was brought to the table.   :Wink:   :: 

Good luck with your application. As you say more bums on seats, more folk to help move this project forward to its end goal.

----------


## Tubthumper

> Tenner says you dont get in nor a reply


You're on! (the tenner can go to the Fund!) ::

----------


## Tubthumper

> Tenner says you dont get in nor a reply


Here Amy I just remembered, you bet we wouldn't get a reply from the WADF on here and we DID! (albeit only because the committee will only lower themselves to communicate on their own terms and the Groat wouldn't publish their huge letter).

Is that a tenner you owe us already?  :Wink:

----------


## Tubthumper

Letter is progressing through the delivery system. Not quite so rapid this time, but never mind!  :Grin:

----------


## Tubthumper

Don't know if this should be in the Literature section, but I was bored and felt inspired to rotten poetry for the first time in months (and it's inspired by this thread)



*Us Here Now*

A pot of gold
  A fund of plenty
  Cornucopia indeed
  Which overspills and threatens
  To unite a people low and glum with hanging cloud

  The Gala diddle
  And further fiddle 
  In the bandroom sets our tone control to miserable
  Bold grey geese call
  We move to the fall
  Will nothing serve to set a smile?

  Can there be any salvation for us?
  Can we drag these sagging spirits
  Onto a happier kind of bus
  And navigate towards the sun
  Ring the bell, let the driver know we want to leap
  From his platform onto a better, fairer, happier pavement

_(Butseeoverthereinthedistance…)_

  Gala floats are the Real McCoys
  BFest to make an annual noise
  Sea turbines bring employment joys
  New school for all our girls and boys
  The Fund helps pay for sporting toys
  All blend to make new Wick alloys

  Next year laughter and high jinks
  The Stagecoach departs empty, returns bursting
  More, and bigger trains required
  A population rising buoyed on the spirit of Far North
  United against pishy weather, stinky economy, nasty secrecy
  Working together for a better flatness
  Striving for a lack of trees with opportunity
  Driving by the flagstone fences that say it’s here and now

  Verdant, blustery, damp and empty
  But OURS
  And BETTER
  With CHANCES
  For ALL OF US

----------


## riggerboy

a canny be bothered going through this threat complete can some give me a general whats happening so far, it seems to harder to keep up with than eastenders ?????

----------


## Tubthumper

_Bing bing bing bing bing biiiiing bing (eastenders tune)_
Well:
After a bit of a furore the information requested arrived, at the same time as the WADF secretary posted a huge response on here (took up 3 posts!) That was because the Groat wouldn't take their letter responding to J Stone's call unless they cut it by half, so in order to respond, they put the whole thing on here. You should read it, it's interesting (pages 15 & 16 I think). 
In summary, their letter sought to 

address some of the issues raisedthreaten legal actionexplain that the WADF had bailed out a bankrupt & failing lazy local football clubdescribe significant mischief-making which caused the income to drop and meant that the sole site that they had their eye on suddenly wasn't available.
It pointed out that they comply with all OSCR requirements (forgot to post their return for this year but that's a minor thing) and are still working on behalf of the community, despite all their setbacks.

There's £135k in the bank. 5 members on the committee (a few of us are joining to help spread the load and get things moving again). The committee agreed to look at working with the new school arrangement. They stopped selling the A-T Tickets as the income was no longer covering the outlay on prizes. They never got my first letter, and have made sure the OSCR were aware of the org thread.

A few queries have come up on the content of their letter, like 'who was on the FC committee when it was going down the tubes' and 'Are the committee members REALLY having to do all that work themselves, and can they really block membership applications?'

And that's it in a nutshell. A fair dunt of cash (well done WADF and all the collectors & contributors), no real movement on a sport complex, and we're just waiting for our memberships. You should join as well, the more decent coves there are the less strain is involved in getting the WADF sorted out and back in action for the community.

Oh and we've been trying to identify new fundraising methods, the thread's dropped to page 2 but you can still vote._

Doof, Doof Duh Doof-Doof dudududuh._

----------


## riggerboy

so has anyone apologised to jackie gunn or is his name still dirty, i`ve known jackie for many years and i think he has been used as a scapegoat,,,, please enlighten me in this

----------


## Tubthumper

> so has anyone apologised to jackie gunn or is his name still dirty, i`ve known jackie for many years and i think he has been used as a scapegoat,,,, please enlighten me in this


Yep, to all the committee, I think on page 17. As for still having a 'dirty name' I don't know. 

It seems to me that the committee could have done far more to let people know what was happening over the 10 years they've been operating. As for who is to blame for the reputation and the bad feeling that seems to have arisen in Wick about this fund, maybe you can enlighten us. When did it start, why did it start, how did it persist, how could it have been prevented? 

If I'm joining this group it would be nice to know what's in the background.  :Smile:

----------


## Tubthumper

Membership application letter has been delivered. This is getting exciting now! :Smile:

----------


## DeHaviLand

> Membership application letter has been delivered. This is getting exciting now!


Until you get a reply saying that membership applications are decide annually, 2nd week in August  :Frown:

----------


## Amy-Winehouse

> Here Amy I just remembered, you bet we wouldn't get a reply from the WADF on here and we DID! (albeit only because the committee will only lower themselves to communicate on their own terms and the Groat wouldn't publish their huge letter).
> 
> Is that a tenner you owe us already?


Was it a tenner bet ? I cant be bothered to look tbh, Im losing interest rapidly in this thread- sorry.  Incidently , How much money did you personally sink into the WADF ?  I wid say maybe £40 of my hard earned went on tickets

----------


## Tubthumper

> Was it a tenner bet ? I cant be bothered to look tbh, Im losing interest rapidly in this thread- sorry.  Incidently , How much money did you personally sink into the WADF ?  I wid say maybe £40 of my hard earned went on tickets


Never mind about the tenner, you can donate it to the WADF next time you're in Wick. I bought quite a few tickets thinking it was for a stadium for WAFC.

Sorry you're bored with this thread (I am as well, but glad it attracted over 27 000 views!) Maybe there'll be reports of good things happening soon. 

Anyway at least now we know that there's a dunt of dosh waiting to be used even though there's been no actual movement towards the goal.  ::  How about joining the WADF and helping it on its way?

----------


## WICKER10

> Was it a tenner bet ? I cant be bothered to look tbh, Im losing interest rapidly in this thread- sorry.  Incidently , How much money did you personally sink into the WADF ?  I wid say maybe £40 of my hard earned went on tickets


Amy Winehouse you should know how the WADF works very well as  WADF used to draw the tickets in the Taxi office of your former employer

----------


## Tubthumper

> Until you get a reply saying that membership applications are decide annually, 2nd week in August


WHAT? Did you actually get that reply??  ::

----------


## DeHaviLand

> WHAT? Did you actually get that reply??


No tubs, I was just preparing you for the almost inevitable disappointment.

----------


## Tubthumper

My counsellor tells to me to always think positive! Glass half-full (or fool half-gassed?) and all that.

I'm only trying to help! :Smile:

----------


## ducati

I'm writing to Mr Carter to request a membership application form as per the rules. I hope if I do it 'by the book' I will get a positive response. I have 35 years business management experience so I hope I can be an asset. I also regularly deal with the funding bodies so maybe I can help there, at least with understanding the way they work.

BTW where can I get a set of Wick Alloys for my car?  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

[quote=ducati;753000]


> I'm writing to Mr Carter to request a membership application form as per the rules. I hope if I do it 'by the book' I will get a positive response. I have 35 years business management experience so I hope I can be an asset. I also regularly deal with the funding bodies so maybe I can help there, at least with understanding the way they work.


Great, skills like that are key to any project of this type. I'm hoping I can bring  some useful skills in too.



> BTW where can I get a set of Wick Alloys for my car?


Maybe try Wick? But make sure you get those locky wheely things just to be on the safe side...


Sorry about that, I couldn't think of anything else that rhymed!

----------


## Amy-Winehouse

> Amy Winehouse you should know how the WADF works very well as WADF used to draw the tickets in the Taxi office of your former employer


Did they ??  Well I certainly never saw the draw being made, so your wrong Im afraid. 

If thats the case, I get in a helicopter twice a month, so I should ken how to fly one now eh  :Wink:

----------


## ducati

> Did they ?? Well I certainly never saw the draw being made, so your wrong Im afraid. 
> 
> If thats the case, I get in a helicopter twice a month, so I should ken how to fly one now eh


I've found, that the Pilots get very upset if you wrestle the controls away screaming "lets have a shot"  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

> I've found, that the Pilots get very upset if you wrestle the controls away screaming "lets have a shot"


Duke, it can't be that hard. The most difficult bit is keeping it in one place, it doesn't even need a steering wheel for goodness' sake! 

Surely an experienced taxi driver could manage to drive one no problem?

----------


## Phill

> The most difficult bit is keeping it in one place


I'm still trying to work out how they keep 'em on the ground once the spinny bits get going.

----------


## Tubthumper

When all's said and done, its just one of them Causewaymire things with seats and windows.

----------


## Tubthumper

> Did they ??  Well I certainly never saw the draw being made, so your wrong Im afraid. 
> 
> If thats the case, I get in a helicopter twice a month, so I should ken how to fly one now eh


You work offshore Amy, did you used to sell the tickets when they were on the go? Did you have to be a member of WADF to sell them? And if you're not already, how do you fancy joining and lending a hand?

----------


## Tubthumper

> so has anyone apologised to jackie gunn or is his name still dirty, i`ve known jackie for many years and i think he has been used as a scapegoat,,,, please enlighten me in this


Did you used to sell the tickets offshore RB? And do you not fancy joining WADF to muck in, help a Wick charity get to its objectives? 

After all you (along with a few others on the org) got quite annoyed about the gala funds.

----------


## Tubthumper

You know something, we've been spending time with this thread (and its predecessor which got closed under threat of legal action), on behalf of the community for nearly two months now. I'm really quite annoyed that the WADF, who posted a huge letter on here (and by definition willingly joined the online debate) have never bothered posting since, even to address the very pertinent questions that were asked about their strange and frankly slavering posts.

Among other things, they made claims about the early days of the fund which just didn't add up, which perhaps put the remainder of their response to calls from Jamie Stone MSP in doubt. 

You know, items 15-17, _We bailed out a club that couldn't be bothered blah blah... set up a separate fund to help the club but would only give money under duress splutter rant... no legal obligation blah slaver... saved the club from extinction rave splutter..._

The Secretary never bothered mentioning that the poor club was actually run at the time by the present WADF committee (and which seems to be doing just fine now since it voted to get rid of the failing chairman and secretary, who managed to separate the club's Development Fund from the club and take it with them when they got kicked out).

Despite the Secretary's plea for community support at the end of the letter (which seemed odd seeing as he'd blamed the lack of progress on 'mischief-makers - concerned members of the community perhaps?) I think the WADFs failure to respond since then, or to continue contributing to the ongoing discussion on here is pretty low. But probably typical of the existing committee who seem think they're above communicating with the community they claim to serve (and their elected representatives) unless they're forced.

When I gain membership (and based on the WADF constitution on what basis can they refuse me?) I'll _volunteer_ to take up the role of Secretary and make a point of communicating with the community properly!

----------


## WICKER10

> You know something, we've been spending time with this thread (and its predecessor which got closed under threat of legal action), on behalf of the community for nearly two months now. I'm really quite annoyed that the WADF, who posted a huge letter on here (and by definition willingly joined the online debate) have never bothered posting since, even to address the very pertinent questions that were asked about their strange and frankly slavering posts.
> 
> Among other things, they made claims about the early days of the fund which just didn't add up, and put the remainder of their response to Jamie Stone MSP in doubt. 
> 
> You know, items 15-17, _We bailed out a club that couldn't be bothered blah blah... set up a separate fund to help the club but would only give money under duress splutter rant... no legal obligation blah slaver... saved the club from extinction rave splutter..._
> 
> The Secretary never bothered mentioning that the poor club was actually run at the time by the present WADF committee (and which seems to be doing just fine now since it voted to get rid of the failing chairman and secretary, who managed to separate the club's Development Fund from the club and take it with them when they got kicked out).
> 
> Despte the Secretary's plea for community support at the end of the letter I think the WADFs failure to respond since then, or to continue contributing to the ongoing discussion on here is pretty low. But probably typical of the existing committee who seem think they're above communicating with the community they claim to serve (and their elected representatives) unless they're forced.
> ...


Well said Tubthumper Wick Acd have come on leaps and bounds since the meeting that Got rid of The Chairman and his mate.
It is a Pity the present Wick Acd cannot access these funds as i am sure they would put them to good use for the benefit of the people of Caithness

----------


## Tubthumper

> It is a Pity the present Wick Acd cannot access these funds as i am sure they would put them to good use for the benefit of the people of Caithness


That's a good point W10. Since in 10 years they have failed to acquire the single piece of land they wanted for a completely new complex, the existing committee have rightly spoken about linking with the new High School to provide, I assume, something like a large stand and all weather pitch etc. But why does the community need another stand and all-weather pitch?

So rather than just combine the money with the High School project, why not combine the money with the Harmsworth Park project and save duplication? After all, Wick Academy FC is the one single bit of Caithness that is noticed by the wider Scottish public every week.

I know WAFC have distanced themselves from WADF, but surely for the good of the community WADF can look at starting a dialogue with the club. The existing £135k just getting swallowed up in the school project may be fine, but a lasting legacy outside what the Council should provide anyway seems a better legacy that acknowledges the efforts made by the WADF.

To completely disregard the club seems petty and immature to me, and makes it look like the existing committee have took the huff or are simply on an ego trip.

----------


## Amy-Winehouse

> You work offshore Amy, did you used to sell the tickets when they were on the go? Did you have to be a member of WADF to sell them? And if you're not already, how do you fancy joining and lending a hand?


No I certainly didnt, I support the Football club & the team but Ive nothing to do with WADF .

----------


## Tubthumper

> No I certainly didnt, I support the Football club & the team but Ive nothing to do with WADF .


Sorry. I thought you might be up for joining to help get the project on its way.  :Frown:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

I see the AGM was May of this year so its another year or so until another one  ::

----------


## crayola

> There's been no progress in 9 years, that's why we need fresh members joining.


It's remarkable isn't it?

WADF's recent rant suggests their attitude has stood still for more than 9 years and their silence since that outburst suggests they don't want to change in the foreseeable future either.  :: 

Keep up the good works tubs, WADF desperately needs your openness and expertise.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Keep up the good works tubs, WADF desperately needs your openness and expertise.


They need it but somehow I doubt they want it or anyone else's help.  :: 

It will most likely be seen as 'mischief making'.


One long letter then nothing else, back to silence and non communication with the public which is why they find themselves in this predicament.  :Frown: 

It will be interesting to see how many of the folks who have stepped forward to offer assistance will be accepted onto this small committee.

----------


## crayola

> They need it but somehow I doubt they want it or anyone else's help. 
> 
> It will most likely be seen as 'mischief making'.
> 
> 
> One long letter then nothing else, back to silence and non communication with the public which is why they find themselves in this predicament. 
> 
> It will be interesting to see how many of the folks who have stepped forward to offer assistance will be accepted onto this small committee.


AiB it won't be seen as mischief making because they said.....



> 38) After  this open and frank letter, W.A.D.F. now hopes that the journey will  get a little easier. The people that we know we are up against have done  a lot of damage so far and wont thank us for our revelations but we  hope that we can regain the all important respect, trust and support of  the public that we require and desire.


Oh God I can't finish this post as I intended because I'm laughing so much.  ::

----------


## W.A.D.F. (SC032787)

Whilst everyone has been busy nit-picking and disecting WADF's response, what's really been bugging me is that it's claimed that there is / was a community councillor in our midst who appears to have done a heck of a lot of damage to the future of this project and yet so far, no one appears to have, either noticed or cared! Maybe some of the efforts being expended on here should be channelled towards finding out just who this individual is....Who is it? Anyone any ideas?

----------


## Tubthumper

> Whilst everyone has been busy nit-picking and disecting WADF's response, what's really been bugging me is that it's claimed that there is / was a community councillor in our midst who appears to have done a heck of a lot of damage to the future of this project and yet so far, no one appears to have, either noticed or cared! Maybe some of the efforts being expended on here should be channelled towards finding out just who this individual is....Who is it? Anyone any ideas?


I didn't bother pursuing it because I thought it looked like the WADF were just trying to shift the blame for their failure to meet their aim, which was to get £100k for a feasibility study. There's £135k there now, which says to me that the target must have been met a few years ago. 

Yet there is no site and no plan, there has been no study, apparently no communication with local sporting bodies and precious little info given out to the local folk. Not even a website for goodness sake!

And the ongoing silence on here just serves to reinforce belief that this is a bunch of people with little or no idea what to do next, but who are determined to get their own way.

Mischief makers, community councillors... it was their fault guv! The Archer, you've helped out with your recorded delivery suggestion, you're obviously on the side of reason - maybe you can speculate on who the councillor was that has apparently prevented the building of a football stadium for Wick, and also maybe on their reasons for doing so.

Be careful though, there could be legal repercussions!  :Wink:

----------


## gleeber

What have I missed?
Ive been following this thread closely and Ive missed the introduction of the mystery person. Could you fill me in on their part in this saga to save me reading the WADF release again, please?

----------


## Tubthumper

Gleeber: In summary, it was all someone else's fault.

_edit - Hur hur, I saw what you did there..._ 


> the WADF release

----------


## WICKER10

> Whilst everyone has been busy nit-picking and disecting WADF's response, what's really been bugging me is that it's claimed that there is / was a community councillor in our midst who appears to have done a heck of a lot of damage to the future of this project and yet so far, no one appears to have, either noticed or cared! Maybe some of the efforts being expended on here should be channelled towards finding out just who this individual is....Who is it? Anyone any ideas?


This person was acting on there own i think not as part of Wick Community Council he was a Community Councillor at the time and also had to do with the playing field upgrade in the Bignold Park.
He should know all about Charity funds as i believe he has close links with the Tax Office it was his complaint that started the OSCR to look at this fund.Well done to him to highlight this group as things are Not right

----------


## crayola

> Mischief makers, community councillors... it was their fault guv!


That's why I was laughing so much last night. They spent more time attacking this alleged community councillor and blaming him for the way they choose to run their secret society than they did trying to get the public onside.  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

> That's why I was laughing so much last night. They spent more time attacking this alleged community councillor and blaming him for the way they choose to run their secret society than they did trying to get the public onside.


Stop nit-picking Crayola!  :Smile:  They have a motto that says they're 'working for the benefit of the community' which should be enough to satisfy the most cynical of sporting observers. Perhaps we should just accept that they know best when it comes to sports provision.

Seriously  though, how difficult is it to set up a simple website to let people know what you're planning and how you're getting on?  :: 

Also, the view count for this thread shows 28 757 this morning, that's about equivalent to a view for every single living human being in the County of Caithness. There is still significant interest from the community.

----------


## Wario

> That's why I was laughing so much last night. They spent more time attacking this alleged community councillor and blaming him for the way they choose to run their secret society than they did trying to get the public onside.


Never mind giving all the credit to this councillor, what about me?  I am now thought of as a pen pal with Oscar I have written so many letters exposing false promises, delays, pets winning jackpots and so on and the pen was really hot when I was thrown out of the fund, despite not even knowing I was ever a member :: 

If there are medals being handed out for exposing this sham I would expect to be on the podium.

----------


## mrlennie

> Never mind giving all the credit to this councillor, what about me?  I am now thought of as a pen pal with Oscar I have written so many letters exposing false promises, delays, pets winning jackpots and so on and the pen was really hot when I was thrown out of the fund, despite not even knowing I was ever a member
> 
> If there are medals being handed out for exposing this sham I would expect to be on the podium.


But you were always mischievous wario - It's just your nature ::

----------


## Tubthumper

> Never mind giving all the credit to this councillor, what about me?  I am now thought of as a pen pal with Oscar I have written so many letters exposing false promises, delays, pets winning jackpots and so on and the pen was really hot when I was thrown out of the fund, despite not even knowing I was ever a member
> 
> If there are medals being handed out for exposing this sham I would expect to be on the podium.


_Wario, Wario
We wonder who you are-io
To front of stage, you star-io
And tell us all you know
Caithness folk near and far-io
Now spill it blow by blow!_ 

Sounds _extremely_ interesting, perhaps a few more details, a drip at a time? But paying attention to the legal niceties of course!

----------


## Phill

> .........to run their secret society........


 Now, now. It's not a secret society it's all open and above board......so we're told.




> Seriously  though, how difficult is it to set up a simple website to let people know what you're planning and how you're getting on?


Incredibly easy, and my offer still stands. Additionally I'm sure Messrs Fernie could find a bit of space on the .org.




> pets winning jackpots and so on


Oooooh, did Dale Winton do the draw?

----------


## Tubthumper

> ...when I was thrown out of the fund, despite not even knowing I was ever a member


Now that's what I call a secret society, even the members don't know they're members!!

Can we take it that getting membership of WADF is simpler than we think then?  ::

----------


## WICKER10

Just been told that *No* New memberships of WADF are being granted at the moment hence i will not be getting a membership.
Anyone else tried to join?
Was also told that members do not have a vote on matters just the exec commitee .
The whole thing is a farce and it is our money they are playing games with

----------


## DeHaviLand

Well, what a surprise  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

I can't believe this Wicker10! They've turned you down? They must have told you direct as there's no mail today, what did they say and who said it?

From the WADF's Constitution:
_"5. Management of the Fund
  The affairs of the fund, including the adoption of regulations and bye-laws, shall be conducted by a management committee comprising the honorary officers (who shall be appointed under the terms of clause 6 following) and up to 5 ordinary management committee members as shall be elected at the annual general meeting of the Fund to hold office for one year till the end of the next annual general meeting."_

There are 'vacancies' for ordinary members as of the last AGM (May 2010). That's why people are applying to join, because (a) They wish to help a struggling committee and (b) they wish to ensure the doings of the WADF are sound. It seems strange to me that a committee could effectively set themselves up to block a membership application when they claim that membership is 'open to...' 

_"Ordinary members of the management committee retiring from office may stand for re-election but if they shall have completed six continuous years as a committee member or officer they shall not be eligible for re-election but may stand for election as a member of the management committee or officer at the next annual general meeting."_

So they make provision for up to 5 ordinary members on the committee with voting rights. So your source was wrong, members who are elected to the committee do have voting rights. But you're telling us that 'No New memberships of WADF are being granted at the moment', in other words they refuse to let you join Wicker10, so there can be no members on the executive committee? 
*
"6. Honorary Officers* _
  The officers of the Fund shall consist of a chairman, a vice-chairman, a secretary, a treasurer and an executive officer. All officers shall be elected at the annual general meeting and will hold office for a three-year term. On the completion of their term, officers may stand for re-election for a further three year period. Should any officer stand down during their period of office, the officers shall elect a suitable replacement whose appointment will be ratified by the members at the following annual general meeting."_

So if a member of the committee (ie one of the 5 existing honorary officers) was to stand down, perhaps because some recent event has thrown their behaviour as a charity trustee into doubt, or the other members of the comittee have doubts about their suitability, then the committee would have to elect a replacement from the remaining membership of 4? But without that member the committee would not be quorate (needs 5 members) and so I assume would have to go to the membership to find another committee member. But are there any other members?

It becomes stranger. Must find out about this situation.

----------


## Tubthumper

I just had to claim post number 400 for myself!  :Smile: 

And almost 30 000 views! That's amazing, don't tell me there's no interest in what's going on!  ::

----------


## crayola

> Never mind giving all the credit to this councillor, what about me?  I am now thought of as a pen pal with Oscar I have written so many letters exposing false promises, delays, pets winning jackpots and so on and the pen was really hot when I was thrown out of the fund, despite not even knowing I was ever a member
> 
> If there are medals being handed out for exposing this sham I would expect to be on the podium.


Apologies Wario. I do appreciate that you've been doing serious work while some of us have not.  :Embarrassment: 

C x

----------


## Happy Guy

_"Ordinary members of the management committee retiring from office may stand for re-election but if they shall have completed six continuous years as a committee member or officer they shall not be eligible for re-election but may stand for election as a member of the management committee or officer at the next annual general meeting."_

This seems to contradict its self, or am I being dim? It says rhat if a mamber has served for 6 continious years they are not eligible for re-election but then goes on to say they may stand for election at the next AGM? And surely by now all members have served for more than 6 years?
I am REALLY confused now

----------


## Tubthumper

Me too Happy Guy!  ::  How can it be legitimate to put a restriction on ordinary members serving on the committee (and then not having any) but not on those who are 'honorary officers'? There are so many things I just don't get, including how can someone set up an 'open' charity only to stop people from joining??  ::  And Wario's post about getting kicked out when he didn't even know he was a member has made me even MORE suspicious!

Can I ask a question please? Could all those following this thread who are themselves, or who know anyone who is a member of WADF, please post on here or pm me? 

Don't worry about getting accosted by the committee in the streets of Wick, i'm sure they've given that up, and I'll keep it confidential.

I just want to get an idea of how many members (obviously those who actually KNOW they're members!) there might be before I ask the WADF how they went about recruiting members and when they last accepted anyone.

Let me know if you got kicked out  too, and the reasons.  :Smile:

----------


## Tubthumper

They rejected me!  :: 

_'Please note that we are not actually seeking new members at this time, but I have noted your interest and have put your application on file until when that position changes.'_

This is supposed to be a charity with open membership (subject to the committee's right to refuse or terminate membership) according to their constitution! It looks to me as if 'not actually seeking new members'  indicates they are operating a closed membership at a time when they desparately need expertise to push the project forward from its complete stall. While that saves them having to reject membership applications (where of course they'd have to explain why) it's hardly in the spirit of their governing document.

Is it arrogance? Desperation? Or have they just got used to getting their own way while they're not getting anywhere?

I've had about enough of this. ::

----------


## DeHaviLand

Tubs, I hope you're not surprised!
seems to me like a further investigation into this group is now in order. There would appear to be a great deal of questions missing some very important answers! ::

----------


## ducati

Tubs, I know I promised to apply, but after a PM from another orger quoting word for word the response you got, I didn't. I'm afraid I don't handle rejection well. Ask Mrs ducati  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

That's OK Duke, it would just have been a waste of a stamp. They're not interested. 

We might as well face it, with these guys running the show there's never going to be a footie stadium or anything else built with the money. Maybe it should just get added to the High School pot.

----------


## Corrie 3

> That's OK Duke, it would just have been a waste of a stamp. They're not interested.


Is it worth having a word with the Groat about these applications being turned away do you think Tubs?
If not, what do you suggest as a next line of approach?
 :Frown:

----------


## Tubthumper

> Is it worth having a word with the Groat about these applications being turned away do you think Tubs?
> If not, what do you suggest as a next line of approach?


Maybe just querying what's going on with OSCR yet again. 

I have to say, I'm becoming pretty disillusioned. As those who have previously tried to get some action or sense out of the WADF have found, they seem to be able to sit back and thumb their noses at us while failing to actually do anything (including building a stadium for our Highland League team as they originally promised) with our money. :Frown:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> They rejected me!


Rejection is so hard. Dont let it get you down.  :Grin: 

Better to have tried and failed than to never have tried at all.


Pick yourself up dust yourself down and start all over again.  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

Thanks Alice, you've rejuvenated my enthusiasm glands again!

The WADF obviously lack the skills and ability to organise the building of a multi-purpose football stadium and training facility, have given up trying (see their response on pages 14-15) and are too petty and self-centred to let anyone else with applicable skills join their exclusive clique to help move the project on after 10 years and no movement. 

The only avenue they're exploring is to liaise with the new high school build [they don't appear to have managed to find any partners] and maybe put the cash towards improving the sports facilities there. That's not a bad idea, but it's certainly not the only road forward. The people of Wick and environs think there are better uses it can be put to, if people with some imagination, drive and ability are permitted to have a say.

I think a letter to the WADF asking them (a) to clarify their strange membership policy and (b) to explain why the only avenue they are now willing to explore is the school one, is in order. Recorded delivery of course. And copied to OSCR and the relevant elected representatives. 

Of course, I could be wrong, and the people of Wick and environs actually want the dosh stuffed into the school pot. If that's the case, why not post on here and let us all know.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Of course, I could be wrong, and the people of Wick and environs actually want the dosh stuffed into the school pot. If that's the case, why not post on here and let us all know.



I believe if the money is not going to be used to develop a stadium it should go to something with a distinct football theme. As the funding is secured for the High School ( well once the money is in the bank  )
would it not be better to invest this money into another project more deserving ?

East End football club or split between all the local football clubs and teams, or even Wick Academy football team which to most people who read the title of the fund would assume they are fund raising to develop Wick Academy   :: 


Of course the fund could accept new members who are enthusiastic and willing to help and push forward to the end goal.  :Smile:  

This would indeed mean they would not have the ultimate control that they now have, however it would mean that they would be a step closer to achieving what they originally set out to do.  :Smile:

----------


## tonkatojo

> I believe if the money is not going to be used to develop a stadium it should go to something with a distinct football theme. As the funding is secured for the High School ( well once the money is in the bank  )
> would it not be better to invest this money into another project more deserving ?
> 
> East End football club or split between all the local football clubs and teams, or even Wick Academy football team which to most people who read the title of the fund would assume they are fund raising to develop Wick Academy  
> 
> 
> Of course the fund could accept new members who are enthusiastic and willing to help and push forward to the end goal.  
> 
> This would indeed mean they would not have the ultimate control that they now have, however it would mean that they would be a step closer to achieving what they originally set out to do.


Steady Alice, far to much common sense.  :Wink:

----------


## telfordstar

> Tubs, I hope you're not surprised!
> seems to me like a further investigation into this group is now in order. There would appear to be a great deal of questions missing some very important answers!


Well said. WICKER10 is very very good at these kind of investigations. They should do it  :Smile:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Steady Alice, far to much common sense.


Woops  I know but when you look at this whole thing common sense seems to have gone out the window and feet stamping and tossing of toys and dummies from prams has taken over (or maybe its been there since the split from Wick Academy football team).

The more people who now apply to this fund I garuantee the more refusals that will come back. WHY ?? because their is a huge amount of lets say huffing and puffing going on! IMHO and without prejuce ( since lawyers could be monitoring this  :Wink:  )


This fund is now at a crossroads where to go from here? I certainly hope that this vast amount of money is not thrown at the first cause that they can think off just to get rid of it as that truly will be a waste of all the years hard work that has gone into raising this money.

The dream of a sports stadium is still there just let others including those who have received their rejection letters lately  participate and help to bring it to reality !  :Smile: 


OSCR are looking at this fund and will continue to probe into it as long as their is this air of secrecy and suspicion. Do the organisers really want to put up with all this agro ? A change of attitude is all that will take to make the road a little less bumpy instead of pointing the finger at others and saying its all their fault.  :Smile:

----------


## Tubthumper

> Well said. WICKER10 is very very good at these kind of investigations. They should do it


That's fair, Wicker10 started the original (closed) thread off, and it'll save me getting all worked up (and wasting money on recorded delivery!)

----------


## Happy Guy

> They rejected me! 
> 
> _'Please note that we are not actually seeking new members at this time, but I have noted your interest and have put your application on file until when that position changes.'_


Well, I got my "Letter of Rejection" today. Identical wording! Its quite humiliating to be turned down by a charity when offering help and time for free. I have worked with a number of charities over my (many!) years, and have never met with anything other than the warmest and most enthusiastic of welcomes. WADF is obviously different from the charities I have been involved with before, both major national, and small local ones.

----------


## Tubthumper

Happy Guy, this isn't your average charity we're talking about here, these people are special.  :: 

Don't be downhearted, it says more about them than it does about us! You'll just have to e-mail OSCR,  the poor lassie must be about demented!

And as Alice in Blunderland pointed out, this kind of thing makes people thinking twice about donating, supporting or trying to get involved in any good cause.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> And as Alice in Blunderland pointed out, this kind of thing makes people thinking twice about donating, supporting or trying to get involved in any good cause.



Exactly this will have a very negative affect on many other small charities. From a tiny seed of suspicion mighty great oak trees of doubt and caution grow.

This negativity in itself will go against OSCRs principles would it not.   ::

----------


## Tubthumper

Mr A Carter
  Secretary
  Wick Academy Development Fund
  16 Thurso Street
  Wick
  Caithness
  KW1 5LF
3rd September 2010    Dear Mr Carter

  Thank you for your letter of 26th August advising me that that WADF is not currently seeking new members. 
  As I am still very interested in helping move the organisation towards finally meeting its stated objects and aims, I wonder if you would mind answering a few questions:
  1.   Your constitution states that membership of WADF is open to any individual aged over 18 who actively supports the aims and objects of the Fund. Why are you effectively refusing membership to those who apply, despite their apparent qualification?
  2.   I am concerned that the current committee (as elected by the membership) is not effectively directing the WADF. Can you please tell me:
  (a) How many members the WADF currently has?
  (b) How many members attended the last AGM in May?
  (c) How the existing members were generally recruited?
  (d) When the last time the WADF accepted a membership application was?
  3.   The WADF committee has proved incapable of achieving its aim (providing a sports complex for Wick) and has stated it may have to work with other organisations. Can you give me an idea of:
  (a) Organisations you have so far sought to associate with?
  (b) Whether you have so far (or intend to in the near future) discussed use of the Wick Academy Development Fund to assist in the development of Wick Academy Football Club?
  5.   The sole site the WADF had informally identified for the sports complex became unavailable, apparently due to ‘mischief-makers’. Can you tell me what _formal_ approaches have been made regarding:
  (a) Locations for the complex?
  (b) Funding support?
  (c) Access to expertise from other like-minded organisation?
  6.   Other than being interested in football, what suitable skills does the current committee have in organising a large community project such as that originally envisaged?
  7.   The current Chairman of the WADF was recently convicted on two counts of threatening behaviour in the local Sheriff Court. Can you tell me what consideration the WADF committee have given to the current incumbent’s suitability to continue in his role?
  8.   The community’s goodwill is essential for a project such as this, and there remains suspicion and scepticism over the WADF because of its perceived secrecy. Why have you made no effort to let the community know what you are doing on their behalf, for instance through a simple website or page on the community internet forum?
  I am sure these questions will not require much research to reply to, and I hope they don’t get in the way of the WADF’s work.
  Thank you very much in anticipation.


  Yours Sincerely


   Copies:
_Via e-mail_
  OSCR designated case worker
  Jamie Stone MSP
  John Thurso MP

_Via_ _Highland__ Council website_
  Cllr Katrina McNab
  Cllr Bill Fernie
  Cllr Graeme Smith

----------


## old dad

What we have here is a complete absence of progress and a refusal to bring in any help. 
This suggests to me that the objective of this fund all along was only ever to collect our money.
I think that priority must now be to get the fund back into community control.

----------


## Corrie 3

Good letter Tubs, superbly written if I may say so!!

Well done!

C3.... :Grin:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

Tubs I assume that you sent it recorded delivery,with a stamp addressed envelope and a reasonable time stated in which you expect a reply ?  :Smile: 

All to help the smooth process of your request.

----------


## Phill

> They rejected me! 
> 
> _'Please note that we are not actually seeking new members at this time, but I have noted your interest and have put your application on file until when that position changes.'_


Glad it wasnea just me that got a letter like that then, I'm still feeling rather let down  ::

----------


## crayola

We're a psychic lot on this thread. Everything we predicted has come to pass so far.

What are WADF going to do next?

Should we expect them to enter into an aggressive phase of indignant righteousness accompanied by more threats of litigation while they continue to do nothing with the fund?

----------


## Tubthumper

My ball is clearing...  I see five angry men, they're not all bad folk, but they're agitated about people being interested in what they're doing. There's a load of money, it's very lonely and feels neglected. There's a meeting, angry words exchanged... some of them want to move forward and forget the past, there's shouting, wagging fingers, threatening behaviour...    They're voting, they've changed their minds about new members. They invite those who applied to join and are 'on file' to go along to a special meeting. They offer tea and small cakes, show a slide presentation of the proposed complex. They inform the wide-eyed new members about the alternative schemes for partnership or donation of the funds, invite them to add new ideas and elect 5 members to join the executive committee.   There's an EGM, a website and a meeting with the press. There's a big surprise when the present chairman stands down, once he realises that the biggest stumbling block to progress is himself. There's communication with local sports people, football teams...  Wow!

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> My ball is clearing...  I see five angry men, they're not all bad folk, but they're agitated about people being interested in what they're doing. There's a load of money, it's very lonely and feels neglected. There's a meeting, angry words exchanged... some of them want to move forward and forget the past, there's shouting, wagging fingers, threatening behaviour...    They're voting, they've changed their minds about new members. They invite those who applied to join and are 'on file' to go along to a special meeting. They offer tea and small cakes, show a slide presentation of the proposed complex. They inform the wide-eyed new members about the alternative schemes for partnership or donation of the funds, invite them to add new ideas and elect 5 members to join the executive committee.   There's an EGM, a website and a meeting with the press. There's a big surprise when the present chairman stands down, once he realises that the biggest stumbling block to progress is himself. There's communication with local sports people, football teams...  Wow!



..................................  Erm dare I add to the story. 

......................Tubs gets all excited, rolls over in the bed, lands on the floor, wakes up with a jolt and alas dream shattered back to the reality of rejection.  ::   :Wink:

----------


## Tubthumper

A dream perhaps? But one that I'm sure would make many people happy if even part of it were to come true.

----------


## Tubthumper

Here's another high-profile organisation that's not taking on new members.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...ntral-11212686

However those in charge are replacing it with a website, so that people can still gain enjoyment and feel part of it. 

There are lessons to be learned...  :Grin:

----------


## ducati

> Here's another high-profile organisation that's not taking on new members.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...ntral-11212686
> 
> However those in charge are replacing it with a website, so that people can still gain enjoyment and feel part of it. 
> 
> There are lessons to be learned...


Like all the other 'Scottish' publishers and media companies they have been taken over by a giant media group.

----------


## DeHaviLand

Not much chance of this giant media group (the .Org) taking over at WADF though. We may have to go for a hostile takeover. Man the guns  :Grin:

----------


## Tubthumper

A friend laughingly said to me yesterday, "You won't be able to go out in Wick ever again, after all this WADF business!"

It got me thinking. I like Wick, and I like Wickers, and I can't believe that trying to help sort out a longstanding community problem could lead to some kind of simmering hatred.

What do you think?  ::

----------


## Corrie 3

> A friend laughingly said to me yesterday, "You won't be able to go out in Wick ever again, after all this WADF business!"
> 
> It got me thinking. I like Wick, and I like Wickers, and I can't believe that trying to help sort out a longstanding community problem could lead to some kind of simmering hatred.
> 
> What do you think?


I am starting to really worry now Tubs.....these are my thoughts....

1).   How do we(the public) know that the money collected is still there? They could have shared it out amongst themselves for all we know!!

2). With the bad publicity that they have brought on themselves its clear that no more money will be given to this fund, with that in mind the committee should be stating what they are going to do with the said money.

3). I honestly think the Police should be called in to investigate, with Wicks record of "Do Gooders" pocketing money how do we know that this isnt another scam???

This non-action from this so called Committee is absolutely digraceful....if they dont come up with something soon I reckon they should be run out of town!!!!

C3.... :Frown:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> A friend laughingly said to me yesterday, "You won't be able to go out in Wick ever again, after all this WADF business!"
> 
> It got me thinking. I like Wick, and I like Wickers, and I can't believe that trying to help sort out a longstanding community problem could lead to some kind of simmering hatred.
> 
> What do you think?


I dont think that this will affect your ability to go out in Wick.  :Smile:  You are only asking questions of a charitable organisation handling public money. Where's the harm in that ? ::

----------


## John Little

> A friend laughingly said to me yesterday, "You won't be able to go out in Wick ever again, after all this WADF business!"
> 
> It got me thinking. I like Wick, and I like Wickers, and I can't believe that trying to help sort out a longstanding community problem could lead to some kind of simmering hatred.
> 
> What do you think?


I would have thought it would be the other way round....

----------


## Tubthumper

That last post of mine looked wrong. My mate meant that certain _individuals_ might be interested in making a night out in Wick interesting, not the whole population! Thanks for pointing that out JL.

Anyway, I told him not to be so daft. We're going out on the spree in Wick in a couple of weeks, and intend to fully enjoy the beer and crack.

And tomorrow it will be one week since I sent my last letter to the WADF, enquiring about (among other things) their membership policy.

----------


## ducati

> That last post of mine looked wrong. My mate meant that certain _individuals_ might be interested in making a night out in Wick interesting, not the whole population! Thanks for pointing that out JL.
> 
> Anyway, I told him not to be so daft. We're going out on the spree in Wick in a couple of weeks, and intend to fully enjoy the beer and crack.
> 
> And tomorrow it will be one week since I sent my last letter to the WADF, enquiring about (among other things) their membership policy.


Are we all invited? Safety in numbers you know  ::

----------


## sandyr1

> That last post of mine looked wrong. My mate meant that certain _individuals_ might be interested in making a night out in Wick interesting, not the whole population! Thanks for pointing that out JL.
> 
> Anyway, I told him not to be so daft. We're going out on the spree in Wick in a couple of weeks, and intend to fully enjoy the beer and '*crack'.*
> 
> And tomorrow it will be one week since I sent my last letter to the WADF, enquiring about (among other things) their membership policy.


Really........after all we've spoken about! Haha

----------


## Tubthumper

> Are we all invited? Safety in numbers you know


 Yes, I'll post details of the event in a whiley. Everyone's welcome!



> Really........after all we've spoken about! Haha


 Hah! I meant CRAIC of course.  ::

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Yes, I'll post details of the event in a whiley. Everyone's welcome!


You paying !!!  :Grin:   ::   ::

----------


## ducati

Great, we can go into Wick and get tanked up then hire a sharra down to Portgower to sort 'em out and get Corrie3 back  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

We can start off in 'Spoons, grab a stake...  :: 





_My coat? Taxi!_

----------


## Tubthumper

I was just having a wee drift through the constitution of the Fund that's 'Working for the benefit of the community'. It struck me that, other than operating a membership bar, they've been following the terms of their constitution (the Governing Document that the OSCR bases its assessment of a charitiy's performance) so we can't really complain about them. 
But look...

*'3. Powers*
_In pursuance of these objects the Fund shall have the following powers:'_
_'(1) Bring together in conference and work in liaison with representatives of voluntary organisations, government departments, local and other statutory authorities and other individuals'_ [Have they done this? I don't think so]

_'(2) Take out membership of such organisations as are considered to be in the interests of and compatible with the objects of the Fund'_ [Have they done this? How can we know when they won't let us join?]

_'(3) Arrange and provide for or join in arranging and providing for the holding of meetings, lectures, classes, training courses, seminars and exhibitions'_ [Have they done this? I doubt it very much]

_'(12) Cause to be prepared and printed, or otherwise reproduced and circulated, free of charge or for payment, such papers, books, periodicals, pamphlets or other documents or films or recorded tapes as shall further the objects.'_ [Really? I've never heard of a pamphlet. No website either. Google WADF or any variation and all you'll find is this thread, glib reassurances from Mr Gunn at WAFC in 2001, and a couple of other sites where people have complained about it. Oh, there was a thing in the Groat in 2006 about a £3m complex, but of course it was just more talk.]

So that leads me to the conclusion that WADF have NOT been abiding by the terms of their constitution. Even after being investigated by OSCR. I wonder if the OSCR are aware of this?

And it got me thinking: It seems that as our friends (who have been unable to make any progress at all in ten years) would rather explode than let anyone else join and have a say, they may be tempted to dissolve it rather than suffer the shame of defeat and having someone else get their sticky paws on 'their' cash. This is what their constitution says:

*'13. Dissolution*
_Dissolution of the Fund shall require a two-thirds majority of those members present at a general meeting called to consider such a motion._

_In the event of dissolution of the Fund, any assets remaining thereof after meeting all liabilities shall not be distributed amongst members of the Fund but shall be given to such other Caithness charity or charities with similar aims and objects as the members of the Fund by a simple majority shall determine.'_ [But what members are there? Why can no-one else join? Does that mean that our self-electing committee of 'honorary officers' can once more do as they please?]

So what Caithness charities with similar aims and objects (providing a sports complex for Wick and environs, primarily football themed) are there that could use £135 000 of our money?  :Wink:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> So that leads me to the conclusion that WADF have NOT been abiding by the terms of their constitution. Even after being investigated by OSCR. I wonder if the OSCR are aware of this?



Erm let me see now, let me think ................mmmmmm yip I think OSCR will now well and truly be aware of this as they are also following this thread are they not ??    ::

----------


## Phill

> I was just having a wee drift through the constitution of the Fund that's 'Working for the benefit of the community'. It struck me that, other than operating a membership bar, they've been following the terms of their constitution (the Governing Document that the OSCR bases its assessment of a charitiy's performance) so we can't really complain about them. 
> But look...
> 
> *'3. Powers*
> _In pursuance of these objects the Fund shall have the following powers:'_
> _'(1) Bring together in conference and work in liaison with representatives of voluntary organisations, government departments, local and other statutory authorities and other individuals'_ [Have they done this? I don't think so]
> 
> _'(2) Take out membership of such organisations as are considered to be in the interests of and compatible with the objects of the Fund'_ [Have they done this? How can we know when they won't let us join?]
> 
> ...


And I thought it was just me who wasn't getting it. :: 

_"...by associating with the.....inhabitants in a common effort....to     provide facilities..."

     "Bring together...and work in liaison with...individuals"_ 

Cool! So......why not? :: 

     From my point of view we have an organisation with good great     intentions, seemingly operated by a small group of committed     individuals who have obviously given a huge amount of their time     over the years. They have put in a lot of time and effort to raise     the £135,000.00 or so they have, they should be applauded for their     efforts, this is no small sum of money.

     But, I can't understand what is now happening?! Okay there has     obviously been something going on somewhere, people making 'noises'     or dare I say 'mischief' but this has been cleared apparently by the     OSCR so it's all tickety boo and business as usual...no?

     It has stalled, ran out of steam, lost direction, lost ideas     and.....dare I say it, lost public confidence.
     So why the refusal of new members?

How about a challenge?
I reckon with all the publicity this is generating there is a fantastic opportunity, get some new members on board, get some new ideas, sing from the rooftops about what the end goal is and monopolise on all the publicity and aim for £200,000 by 2012.

 ::

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> How about a challenge?
> I reckon with all the publicity this is generating there is a fantastic opportunity, get some new members on board, get some new ideas, sing from the rooftops about what the end goal is and monopolise on all the publicity and aim for £200,000 by 2012.


Quite achievable given that there is already a substantial amount of money in the bank. There are various funds which can now be tapped into which can match the amount already raised.   :Smile:

----------


## Tubthumper

Alice, Phill, you're quite correct that even greater sums can be accessed using the existing money as leverage. Also that great efforts have been made to raise the cash, which (as I've said from the start) should be lauded.

But I maintain that WADF needs new blood to give fresh impetus and an improved public face.

Anyway, nothing in the post from them yet.  ::

----------


## Corrie 3

I think I might write to them and ask them where they have this money banked and what kind of interest rate they are getting on it.
Do you think they would reply and disclose that information?
Even at the low rate at the moment it should be bringing in a fair few pounds in interest if they have it banked at the right place!!

C3... :Frown:

----------


## Happy Guy

> I was just having a wee drift through the constitution of the Fund that's 'Working for the benefit of the community'. It struck me that, other than operating a membership bar, they've been following the terms of their constitution (the Governing Document that the OSCR bases its assessment of a charitiy's performance) so we can't really complain about them. 
> But look...
> 
> *'3. Powers*
> _In pursuance of these objects the Fund shall have the following powers: etc etc.....'_


Good point, but, the way this is worded, it seems that it only gives them the POWERS to do these things if they so choose, I don't think it places any OBLIGATION on them to actually do it?
My main concern and one that I would hope OSCR would be concerned about too, is that in any charity, the Trustees have a legal duty to:
a)* Protect the Charities funds*, and by just sitting on the money (quite a large sum) in a bank account, for a number of years, money is lost if the maximum interest income is NOT achieved, *then they fail in that duty* 
b) *To further the Objectives of the Charity*, as defined in their charter. Well, I cannot see how having that money siting somewhere doing nothing achieves ANYTHING! *So again they fail in that duty also*.
These two things are the principle and over-riding duties of the Trustees of any charity, and carry a legal responsibility

----------


## Tubthumper

Corrie3, Happy Guy youse are correct. Because the interest rate is incredibly low (and looks like remaining so for a time yet) many charitable funds are being hit by the income drop.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-11265144

The fund in the report exists to dish out money to provide sporty coaching. 'Our' Fund (the WADF) exists to ensure... what??  :: 

To fund a feasibility study into a sports complex? With £135k available and nothing even planned since 2006?

Our money should be out there doing good, not stuck in a bank doing nowt but making an arrogant, self-perpetuating 'committee' feel good about itself!  :: 

Committee members; stop letting yourself be bullied, consider what people are thinking. Why not just allow new members to join? Maybe something will finally get done, and you could look good in your community's eyes!

----------


## Tubthumper

> I think I might write to them ... Do you think they would reply ... ?


Probably just to let you know that they're not actually seeking to divulge any information at this time. 

If you're lucky they'll keep you on file until that changes. Hah!

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> I think I might write to them and ask them where they have this money banked and what kind of interest rate they are getting on it.
> Do you think they would reply and disclose that information?
> 
> 
> C3...


There is no harm in writing to them and asking these questions. A stamped addressed envelope would help.  :Grin:

----------


## Phill

I've been out of the county for a few days so obviously missed the updates.

I take it now membership has been opened up and there is to be a public meeting announcing the next stages of the funds expansion and global domination!




 ::

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> I've been out of the county for a few days so obviously missed the updates.
> 
> I take it now membership has been opened up and there is to be a public meeting announcing the next stages of the funds expansion and global domination!



Ehhhh I  don't get it are they letting new members in ?  ::  Have i had too many glasses of wine tonight.

----------


## DeHaviLand

> Ehhhh I don't get it are they letting new members in ?  Have i had too many glasses of wine tonight.


No  :Frown:  Yes  ::

----------


## Phill

Apologies all, obviously dreaming again!!



 ::

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> No  Yes



Oh I was allowed it was my Birthday  :Wink:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Apologies all, obviously dreaming again!!



Whhheeeeeww I thought I had too much vino  :: 

You had me scrolling back through the messages to see if someone had posted that they had received a reply saying new members were being considered.

----------


## DeHaviLand

> Oh I was allowed it was my Birthday


Congratz, hope it was a good one  :Grin:

----------


## crayola

It crossed my mind yesterday that the Org seems to be run in much the same way as WADF. But the difference is that the Org provides a service to the community and is a privately owned thing as opposed to a charity and it's not sitting on more than £100K of money donated by the public. And that makes all the difference.

----------


## Tubthumper

Just got back, raked through the heap of mail expecting at least something from WADF...

Nothing. Nowt. Nada. Zilch. Zip. Hee-haw.

Two weeks have passed, not even the decency to write back saying 'Get stuffed, mind your own business!'.

OK. I asked a series of reasonable questions about WADF's lack of progress, membership policy, attitude to the community, repeated re-election of the same faces to the committee (and refusal to let anyone else have a say), and on having a thug as chairman.

Methinks the gloves must come off now...

----------


## Tubthumper

> There is no harm in writing to them and asking these questions. A stamped addressed envelope would help.


Although it gives me a pain in my heart to say it, I very much doubt you'll get a response.

There is money that needs to be used, and plenty of uses it could be put to...The present committee haven't a clue what to do...Although there are plenty of people who want to join and help...But the present committee have it all sewn up so no-one else can join...There is money that needs to be used...
We're stuck in an endless loop.  ::

----------


## sandyr1

Some Countries have in place a system whereby, money taken in by an Organizationn under an exemption of Taxes, must use a portion of said money within a 'certain period of time'. 
If that isn't done they an lose their 'Tax Deductible'' status. 
There must be something that you can do....
It doesn't seem feasible that people can run lotteries etc. etc., for years and just sit on that money and not use it for some purpose related to that which it collected for.
Come on you smart people of Kaitness, get the Charitable Trust Act or whatever it is called, and 'peruse' it for the answer....
I know with us that I think 30% of tax receiptable money taken in, MUST be used within a certain time!
Just a thought as you guys sleep......Regards.....s

----------


## pat

No replies yet from OSCR (the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator) but I did get emails in reply to my two requests for them to check specific things about this charity - emails from OSCR said they would be looking into the matter of this charity - did say they would be replying probably within 28 days,but it could take up to 3 months - will have to get chasing OSCR as WADF do not appear to be answering anyone.

Wonder if WADF are answering OSCR and if they are not what will the Regulator do?

I surmise if they do not answer OSCR in the specified time and the answers do not satisfy the regulators, some folk will be investigated thoroughly by our local boys in blue as well as OSCR - and the investigation will not just be this past couple of years but go right back to the start of the fundraising charity, Wick Academy Development Fund - think there will be a few folk manufacturing bricks at the moment at the thought of everything becoming clear to the folk in Wick area.

----------


## Tubthumper

> There must be something that you can do....
> It doesn't seem feasible that people can run lotteries etc. etc., for years and just sit on that money and not use it for some purpose related to that which it collected for.
> Come on you smart people of Kaitness, get the Charitable Trust Act or whatever it is called, and 'peruse' it for the answer....


A good point Sandy. It appears that, for all their sneaky behaviours, broken promises, lack of movements, ignorings of community opinion, threatenenings in the street,  refusals to give money, and complete ineptitude, the WADF haven't actually done anything wrong in the eyes of the OSCR and relevant Acts! 

It needs effort from concerned people in the community to raise the stakes and (from the look of recent input to the thread) many of us have found our interest has moved on. That, along with ignoring requests for information, is one of the ways a crew like this can carry on sitting on our dosh and acting in their arrogant, contemptuous manner. 

It's not just down to a few of us banging away on here for the general entertainment of the populace: all you concerned citizens out there need to do your bit if your actually care about this. 

Send an e-complaint to OSCR, contact our Councillors, MP and MSP, post on here but whatever you do, after 35 000 views (the most popular thread on here in years) DON'T let the WADF become just another 'Hah! _they_ were dealing with it but they didn't get anywhere, _typical_' issue.

----------


## ducati

> think there will be a few folk manufacturing bricks at the moment at the thought of everything becoming clear to the folk in Wick area.


Good, we will need them to build the new stadium and leisure facilities.

----------


## cuddlepop

Did anyone see notification of an AGM advertised in May anywhere?


If they say they called one then they had to advertise it locally,usually its done here in the Free Press.

Can the locals call an EGM or can that only be done by the "silent committee?

Far to many questions left unanswered to wait till May next year and as they say they called an AGM then their accounts till April 2010 must be done and a copy requested. :: 

As pat said silence may be because there all to busy. :Wink:

----------


## Tubthumper

> ... and the investigation will not just be this past couple of years but go right back to the start of the fundraising charity, Wick Academy Development Fund ...


Was that when the current Chairman of WADF (you know, the thug who got found guilty of threatening people that used to raise money for 'his' fund) was 'leading' the local Highland League football team down the pan? 

Do you mean around 2000, when the WADF was first established using the Football Club's name, _apparently_ to raise funds for a stadium for the Football Club? 

Where the then Chairman of the Football Club (the thug) apparently only released funds under duress to save the Football Club he was 'leading' from closing down? 

Where the members of the Football Club were dismayed to find they were unable to join their own Development Fund as the Chairman of their Football Club & his Friends managed to set it up to keep anyone else from joining and having a say?

Wasn't that just before the Football Club had to have a Putsch to get rid of their rubbish Chairman and Secretary, who were failing totally at running a Football Club, but succeeding in raising loads of money (under very dubious pretences) for the Football Club? The same Football Club which, despite appeals and enquiries by OSCR, wasn't allowed to get near the money or even stop the WADF from using the name to raise even more money?

Yes, I think it was. 

I wonder if the Act which was set up to make it simple to raise money for good causes is turning out to be a godsend for fast-talking committee people. Or if the OSCR's seemingly 'hands-off' approach means that achieving results with a fund comes a long way behind not upsetting the fundraisers.

Welcome back from your break Pat!  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

> Did anyone see notification of an AGM advertised in May anywhere?


There's only the 'famous five' on the committee, they can circulate the agenda & minutes between themselves however they wish. And no-one else gets to see what they decide to do.



> Can the locals call an EGM or can that only be done by the "silent committee?


 It needs 6 members to call an EGM. There are only the 'famous five' on the committee at the moment, no ordinary members ('vacancies'). I asked how many ordinary members there are, who was at the AGM, when the last time they accepted new members was - surprise surprise I got no reply. 

They won't let anyone join their fund. Or know what they're doing. But then again, it's hardly surprising; if we got information, it wouldn't be a secret club, and ego massage would be difficult.

Thing is, there are decent folk on the committee, they just don't seen to be able to get anywhere. I wonder why?

----------


## sandyr1

I dunno people..I think you have much at fingertips..The Media, I mean 'real madia'. The locals ones don't usually want to push local people as they are more community based, and everyone knows each other.
When some of these 'tabloids' start doing the 'foto thingy, and Television start pushing Mikes in people faces, it does seem to bring people to their senses. There is nothing like 'peer pressure' and media support to bring the best and worst out in people.
And you have your political masters to assist you/ remember they depend on 'voters' to keep them in employment. 
I realize that Caithness.Org is well read, BUT it is a small fish the scheme of things. You all seem to be committed to make this 'community money', help the community, as that was the intention all along.
In addition......As an 'outsider looking in'......I think each and every one who posts on this issue should be somewhat careful of their 'personal comments'. It can come back to haunt one.
Just some personal thoughts! 
Keep up the good work!......................s

----------


## Tubthumper

Slight deviation here. I was down Oban way last week, and passed Lochgilphead Joint Campus, which is a big school complex serving a small town and rural area. It looks pretty smart, (apart from the gym roof which blew off before it was even opened!). I took a few pictures but the phone-cam's gone mad so I can't post them.  :: 

Anyway, it's got a massive outdoor sports area in front, all-weather pitches etc. and I thought it was a decent indication of what can be done with school/ community sporting facilities (although there isn't a stadium that I could see.)

If there is no hope of WADF managing to organise a stand-alone facility, no chance of any reconciliation between the WADF and WAFC to allow development of a stadium and complex around the Club (as the fund was originally intended, and what most people want), and no way in the short term that we will be allowed to help the project move forward, then perhaps improving or adding to the proposed school-based facility is the best we can hope for after all. 

Just so long as the Football Club get the use of it and the money we donated doesn't end up paying for something that was originally in the Council's scope.

----------


## Tubthumper

Away back in the depths of this thread, Katarina suggested the Bignold Park as a location for a sports complex. I think there were still questions over ownership at the time, but forgetting about the High School location issue (which has only appeared relatively recently) I just had a moment of wondrous confusion...

Why didn't the WADF committee consider Council-owned land for their sports complex? The Bignold Park is for the use of the community, and it would have seemed a sensible option, don't you think? It would have attracted support in kind (donation from the HC?) and been in a very suitable position. Rather than the single (privately owned?) piece of land that they pursued (and lost) it seems to me that publicly-owned ground would have been a far better idea right from the start. Can anyone enlighten us on why that didn't happen?  ::

----------


## W.A.D.F. (SC032787)

> Why didn't the WADF committee consider Council-owned land for their sports complex?


Where have you been for the past few months? Not being a Weeker you will have no concept of the fact that us Weekers want the Bignold Park to remain as is...as was...end of story!! Obviously WADF being Weekers are thinking the same way to...

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Obviously WADF being Weekers are thinking the same way to...



Just want to point out something but .........

OBVIOUSLY WADF being a a group fund raising for and on  behalf of the people of East Caithness would be glad of the extra offers of support from members of the public .......

would OBVIOUSLY be willing to support and help develop sporting clubs/groups throughout the county.......

Also they would OBVIOUSLY want to be as open and frank with said public to gain as much confidence as possible in their group and their actions !

 If they were.........   :: 

then OBVIOUSLY there would never have been any need for this whole sorry thread and resulting fiasco. 

I think if one thing this thread has highlighted is the OBVIOUS contempt that the WADF seem to hold some Weekers in.  :Wink: 


who knows maybe the bit of land that  was being looked at for a stadium may have been Bignold Park and thats why there is such secrecy surrounding which bit of land it was !

----------


## WICKER10

> Just want to point out something but .........
> 
> who knows maybe the bit of land that  was being looked at for a stadium may have been Bignold Park and thats why there is such secrecy surrounding which bit of land it was !


The bit of ground Gunn was looking at and in talks for was at The bottom of Newton Hill opposite to where the Radio Station Gates were.
It belongs to the estate and is still available for sale i am told.
Gunn had plans to sell of Harmsworth Park or so he said to give Wick Acd the best ground in the North

----------


## Tubthumper

> Where have you been for the past few months? Not being a Weeker you will have no concept of the fact that us Weekers want the Bignold Park to remain as is...as was...end of story!! Obviously WADF being Weekers are thinking the same way to...


Obviously, why didn't they bother contacting the Council about ANY bit of land?? Was it arrogance? Or did they want to have a setup that no-one else could have a say in the running of? 

Bignold Park is a sports area already; Rather than lose the opportunity for a stadium altogether, why not have it there? And do you speak for all Weekers? Maybe you could get the committee to make another statement on here letting us know, what they've been doing while ignoring us. And what's the general feeling among Weekers about the WADF/ WAFC situation? Maybe you could follow up your post this time, the last time you posted about the councillor that spoiled the WADF's plan but you didn't come back.

If WADF ever manage to get a facility in place, I wonder what the conditions for getting to use it will be, and how much they will charge us?

Edit - By the way, can you tell me what the criteria for being a Weeker are? I think I may have Wick in my blood.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Edit - By the way, can you tell me what the criteria for being a Weeker are? I think I may have Wick in my blood.


Nah dinna believe you ,you are going to have to prove that one !   ::   :: 

Is it born, bred and brought up in Week ?  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

> Is it born, bred and brought up in Week ?


Who are you calling 'it'?  ::

----------


## John Little

POI.

Judicial Review in Scotland

"Judicial review is the procedure whereby the exercise of a delegated discretionary decision making power is examined by a court so as to ensure that the power has been properly exercised for it's lawful purpose1. In general terms the court will intervene where the person or body which has been given the power fails to act when it is required to or when it makes a decision it ought not to have made when acting properly within the terms of the mandate given to them. The remedy is only available in the Court of Session".

http://www.jonathanmitchell.info/upl...cialreview.pdf

----------


## Tubthumper

> POI.
> 
> Judicial Review in Scotland
> 
> http://www.jonathanmitchell.info/upl...cialreview.pdf


So that's like getting a neutral person or referee involved, to look at the issues and direct on what needs to happen?

I see your point, but surely if there could just be more sensible people involved in the decision-making process there would be a better chance of getting the community onside and actually going in the right direction with the money we donated.

----------


## John Little

Look - it's not my community so I won't say what I really think in detail.

But Charles 1 was accused of erecting, as I believe I have said before, an arbitrary and unaccountable power.

This is not admissible in a democracy.  This is what the courts are for.

Judicial review, as I understand it, is a no-blame situation, and to avoid splitting your community grievously, it seems to me to be the best option.  Judge's recommendations are binding I think. But I am no lawyer so you need to ask one.

I am not saying that you should pick the tab up either.  This money was raised by the community for community purposes.  It is of legitimate concern to your community representatives - if it is not, then what is the purpose of having them?  If the council is not interested in something involving such a sum, and of such division and strife in the community, then it should be.

I do not, though again I am no expert, see why you should not approach a councillor and ask them if the council's law officers could look this over pro bono publico.

Failing that, you may have, on the Org somewhere, an ambitious young solicitor who might do it, again, pro bono - though that's a long shot.

Do you have a citizens' advice bureau in Wick?  That's another course....

Judicial review is not a hostile procedure I think.  It is a referee process.

It's just a pity that it seems necessary.

Do you think it has to go that far?

----------


## veekay

John Little, I see from another thread that you are planning a trip up.  Perhaps you could be an independant reviewer of this whole sorry, decidedly fishy ( possibly illegal) affair.  Midges would be the least of your worries!

Only a suggestion :Wink:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Do you think it has to go that far?



I would say that it possibly would have to go this far.  :Frown:

----------


## John Little

Hm.

"The objects of the Fund shall be to promote for the benefit of the inhabitants of Wick and its environs without distinction of sex, sexuality, political , religious or other opinions by associating with the local statutory authorities, voluntary organisations and inhabitants in a common effort to advance education and to provide facilities, or assist in the provision of facilities , in the interest of social welfare for recreation and other leisure - time occupation so that their conditions of life may be improved."


http://www.oscr.org.uk/CharityIndexD...px?id=SC032787

Associating with.......  

common effort.............




The Charities and Trustee Investment (Scotland) Act 2005 gives OSCR the power to make inquiries into apparent or alleged misconduct in charities; bodies that are connected to or controlled by charities; and bodies that are not charities but are represented as charities.

What OSCR deals with
OSCR can only investigate complaints where it has the legal power to do so.  We can make inquiries into cases where: 
the trustees are not acting in accordance with the governing document or charity law
it appears that misconduct in the charity may be putting assets at risk
the charity's income is not being used for its stated charitable purposes
the way in which the charity is administered is detrimental to its beneficiaries or causes served
an organisation is calling itself a charity when it is not.

http://www.oscr.org.uk/Howtocomplainaboutacharity.stm

----------


## John Little

Hypothetical question.

If an organisation is registered as a charity and has a set of objects published on the charity regulator's website, if it appears to not fulfil those objects....is it still a charity?

And if this does appear to be the case, does not the regulator have a statutory duty to investigate?

https://www.oscr.org.uk/ComplaintsForm.aspx


Complainer's Name (note that OSCR will accept anonymous complaints but may be restricted in the action that can be taken):

----------


## John Little

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/legislation/s..._20050010_en_1


http://www.barprobono.org.uk/

http://www.advocates.org.uk/FLSUwebs...cies_flsu.html

http://www.hmitchell.co.uk/pdfs/Role...ty_Trustee.pdf

----------


## sandyr1

[quote=John Little;765113]Hypothetical question.

If an organisation is registered as a charity and has a set of objects published on the charity regulator's website, if it appears to not fulfil those objects....is it still a charity?

And if this does appear to be the case, does not the regulator have a statutory duty to investigate?

https://www.oscr.org.uk/ComplaintsForm.aspx

Yes JL.. I again agree with you. If something is set up to enhance, and has not fulfilled those objectives, then is it a charity?
Perhaps people from the Wick area, form a committee to investigate why this money is not being used for the proposed objectives..
It can be a number of 'concerned citizens' who get together as they are concerned. Appoint a spokesperson and bring your concerns to Council. It will be noted in Council Minutes and then let them ignore it if they wish. Then on to the Media if need be. I am sure once this 'ball' get rolling you will have all sorts of support! 
There would be no need to slag anyone, just a fact finding committee.
And I would suggest that perhaps this Thread be abandoned, as some of the comments by some stragglers are not useful to your cause! 
BTW...Not addressing you Tubs...you seem to be the driving force here.
The 'community' could be generally updated here but personal opinions etc are not worthy of such a good cause.
Again, obviously..............I am not within your community but methinks I was buying tickets for this on my trips back over the past years.
I feel that once 'outed', this 'charity' can become good for all involved....
BTW...These are personal opinions and thoughts.
Ohhhhhhhhhhh....you also have Bill Fernie...he may not want to get involved but as a Councillor he must also satisfy his constituents....I am sure he will be 'onside', with good advice.

----------


## pat

Post has been today - no answers yet - not only that the mail plane has obviously not made it in either. 

Answer from OSCR should not be far in coming

----------


## Tubthumper

I got a letter from the WADF secretary, scolding me for putting my letter onto this forum.

Also because I've posted several passages from the WADF constitution, and am waging an online crusade against them, he won't be answering my questions (which he didn't like the tone of).

So, no further information being given, and it's obviously all MY fault.  ::

----------


## Corrie 3

> I got a letter from the WADF secretary, scolding me for putting my letter onto this forum.
> 
> Also because I've posted several passages from the WADF constitution, and am waging an online crusade against them, he won't be answering my questions (which he didn't like the tone of).
> 
> So, no further information being given, and it's obviously all MY fault.


Really Tubs, 
You weren't expecting a civil answer from them were you?
We all know they are locked in their little circle and wont let anyone else in, I am also getting fed up of anyone asking questions being branded a "Troublemaker".....As far as I can see there are only 5 people who are troublemakers, they are the ones that have took public money and doing absolutely nothing with it. They have no plans as what to do with it and no plans to increase these funds to a sizeable level. What else are we to think but that these people have something dishonest to hide IMHO !!
Until they come up with a solution I will always think of them in this way, what else can I do?...Trust them??????....I dont think so!!

C3.... ::  ::  ::

----------


## Metalattakk

> I got a letter from the WADF secretary, scolding me for putting my letter onto this forum.
> 
> Also because I've posted several passages from the WADF constitution, and am waging an online crusade against them, he won't be answering my questions (which he didn't like the tone of).


Let's not forget that it is a crusade entirely of their own making. If they'd simply accede to the simple requests given appropriately, then this would all be over, done and dusted, and everyone would be happy chappies. Unless there is indeed something to hide...

So, as they're obviously unwilling to enter into any dialogue with mere mortals and the very people who have donated to this fund, where can we go from here?

Time to escalate this whole sorry matter. I suggest involving people that they cannot ignore simply because they don't like the 'tone' of the questions asked.

John Thurso, Jamie Stone, the OSCR, the media, etc. Let's see the WADF refuse to answer _their_ questions.

----------


## veekay

> I got a letter from the WADF secretary, scolding me for putting my letter onto this forum.
> 
> Also because I've posted several passages from the WADF constitution, and am waging an online crusade against them, he won't be answering my questions (which he didn't like the tone of).
> 
> So, no further information being given, and it's obviously all MY fault.


 
They have obviously been getting their own way for far to long and like naughty children when they are finally taken to task they don't like it.  I hope this letter won't put you off Tubthumper or put anyone else off either, the whole thing needs to be sorted.  Perhaps if I write I might hear something different - yeah!

----------


## Tubthumper

> Perhaps if I write I might hear something different - yeah!


 Go for it Veekay! Although our chums will probably claim you're part of the same online crusade, to deflect attention away from themselves. But the OSCR must have cottoned onto the fact that a lot of people want action. 37 000 views and counting, that's an awful lot!

But the bottom line is that they made promises, we contributed money, they've failed to deliver for ten years. And they STILL refuse to listen to their community, or let anyone else have a say.  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-11436406

Now I'm not saying that we could have £32m worth up here, but look at the scheme for the Halkirk centre. 

Ten years of bloody-mindedness on the part of a clique determined to do things _their_ way or _nae_ way. And where have we got? No centre and no plan. Too little cash to do anything and no possibility of raising any more because people won't contribute.

But of course, it's all OUR fault!  :Frown:

----------


## veekay

> Go for it Veekay! Although our chums will probably claim you're part of the same online crusade, to deflect attention away from themselves. But the OSCR must have cottoned onto the fact that a lot of people want action. 37 000 views and counting, that's an awful lot!
> 
> But the bottom line is that they made promises, we contributed money, they've failed to deliver for ten years. And they STILL refuse to listen to their community, or let anyone else have a say.


 
OK I will do that.  I am sure they will appreciate the concern of another member of the community!

----------


## pat

obviously no letters in the post for any of us from WADF or OSCR - wonder when we will be getting answers, must be very very soon.

----------


## katarina

This is just plain ridiculous!  bring them out and string them up I say!  Turn them upside down and shake them till all them thousands fall oot o their pockets!  seriously, I don't see how this can be allowed to go on.

----------


## pat

well said Katarina

Have you sent your questions to OSCR?   Do it all legal and above board, OSCR are already looking into this committee, how it is run and where the money is going or has  it m ay have been spent. 
I am (one of many folk I am sure) who have got in touch with OSCR to ask them to investigate this committee, what they are doing with the monies they have collected through the years, why this committee will not answer questions put to them by the folk who helped raise the monies by buying tickets or selling them.
This committee MUST be made to be held fully accountable for their actions, be fully accountable to the folk in the community who raised this funds.

Even if it is one query about a charity OSCR have to investigate but I think OSCR will have more than one person asking questions on this particular charity.

----------


## Tubthumper

> John Thurso, Jamie Stone, the OSCR, the media, etc. Let's see the WADF refuse to answer _their_ questions.


They managed to treat Jamie Stone's request for information with a degree of contempt. Their 'letter' of response was too long for the Groat. But, being supremely arrogant, rather than edit it down as suggested by the paper (to make it readable, and as any normal charity committee would do) they split it up and put it on the org, making us suffer the horror of trying to decipher the rantings, vitriol and half-truths.

The difficult part is always waiting for the official response...

----------


## pat

Yes Tubs - the worst part is the waiting for the results of the official investigations - time certainly seems to drag, I think we are only at the beginning of the very long wait until everything is cleared by OSCR.  

If this committee is as reluctant with answers  and records being made available to OSCR as it has been to everyone else - a very heavy hand of their powers will be felt by WADF, this hand is extremely strong and has the full power of the legal system.

This committee have certainly thumbed their noses at anyone and everyone - think they are immune and untouchable.

They should remember - no one is untouchable

----------


## Tubthumper

Blast you Pat, you grabbed the 500th post!!!  :Smile: 

And with 38 000 views, 'What Are These People Doing About The Sports Centre They Promised Us?' is far more popular than 'Are There Vampires in Portgower'! 

Who would have thought it?

----------


## Corrie 3

> Blast you Pat, you grabbed the 500th post!!! 
> 
> And with 38 000 views, 'What Are These People Doing About The Sports Centre They Promised Us?' is far more popular than 'Are There Vampires in Portgower'! 
> 
> Who would have thought it?


Perhaps we need to start a new thread Tubs..............

How about.........

"Are there Bloodsuckers in Wick"

C3..... ::  :Wink:

----------


## pat

Check again Tubs - Tubs made the 500, I was 501 (its in the jeans).

----------


## Tubthumper

After more than 38 000 views, I wonder how many of those who have had a look would be inclined to join the Fund and help move it forward. Once the membership issue gets resolved that is! 

WADF is, after all, an open-membership organisation.

----------


## Phill

> WADF is, after all, an open-membership organisation.


Careful Tubs! You have to watch what you 'say', legal action could be instigated if you were to start spreading mischievous lies.

----------


## Phill

Does anyone know who I direct my membership request for the Freemasons to?

I understand they are welcoming of new members and quite charitable.
ooops, wrong thread.... ::

----------


## golach

> Does anyone know who I direct my membership request for the Freemasons to?
> 
> I understand they are welcoming of new members and quite charitable.
> ooops, wrong thread....


Are you on the level?  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

Is this the third degree?  :Smile:

----------


## WERDNA

::    You have more chance of becoming a member of the Free Masons than WADF.

----------


## Tubthumper

Werdna, hmmm... :: 

Is that you Andrew?

----------


## pat

Been away - yes again for two weeks, living it up in London this time.

Had been anticipating a reply from OSCR or some information on this but on searching my mail on my return no such luck YET.

OSCR will be beavering away trying to get answers for us all and to clear the air on this charity from the committee handling the finances.

----------


## Metalattakk

> Werdna, hmmm...
> 
> Is that you Andrew?


Nah, he's just a bit backward at coming forward.  :Grin: 




> OSCR will be beavering away trying to get answers for us all and to clear the air on this charity from the committee handling the finances.


Hope so. How 'persuasive' do you think OSCR can be?

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Nah, he's just a bit backward at coming forward.


Oh I thought he was pretty forward when he sent out his refusal letters to the folks who wanted to join the committee.  :Wink: 






> Hope so. How 'persuasive' do you think OSCR can be?


Oh I think they can be very ,very persuasive...................if not a down right pain in the ear se to the committee but then that's because of troublemakers remember not the committees refusal to be open to the public.  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

> ... because of troublemakers remember not the committees refusal to be open to the public.


Funny, isn't it? Going by their history, anyone who shows interest in what they are doing is a troublemaker. If they can prevent anyone else becoming a member now, will they do so when they have fulfilled their ego-trip and built a facility? Or will membership of the club remain in the gift of the self-elected committee?

Really though, why should we be interested at all, at the current rate of progress we'll all be long dead before the feasibility study gets done. In fact Wick and environs will probably have been reclaimed by the sea. ::

----------


## ducati

> Funny, isn't it? Going by their history, anyone who shows interest in what they are doing is a troublemaker. If they can prevent anyone else becoming a member now, will they do so when they have fulfilled their ego-trip and built a facility? Or will membership of the club remain in the gift of the self-elected committee?
> 
> Really though, why should we be interested at all, at the current rate of progress we'll all be long dead before the feasibility study gets done. In fact Wick and environs will probably have been reclaimed by the sea.


Might as well give the money to the bankers to offset the hardship they are suffering  ::

----------


## John Little

Not a bad idea Ducati!

Alternatively we cound find an investment banker on the Org to invest it in sub prime mortgages and make loads of moolah - you might make enough money to build the whole thing to the standard of one of Saddam's palaces....  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

Investment Banker - some new cockney rhyming slang term perhaps?

Seriously, the £135k that we donated isn't going to be gathering all that much interest just now; there isn't enough to build a decent new facility on its own, and it is doubtful if anyone will offer matching funding based on the existing setup.

Get that money out of the bank and doing something NOW!

----------


## John Little

Oh my!

Which bank is it in?    :: 

Not - an Icelandic one?..... ::

----------


## ducati

> Oh my!
> 
> Which bank is it in? 
> 
> Not - an Icelandic one?.....


That isn't funny. A great many charities had their money invested in this way, along with local councils. A lot of charities lost a great deal of their long term investment funds. Money being saved for capital projects as apposed to day to day running. ::

----------


## John Little

So my question lacks relevance then?

I hope I was joking.

----------


## Tubthumper

> A lot of charities lost a great deal of their ... money being saved for capital projects as opposed to day to day running.


Calm down now chaps! Duke, you're right. And John, you may be insensitive but you're right too.

In this case it doesn't look as if there will ever be a stand alone sports facility paid for by WADF. Fair enough, cash has been raised, but in my view (and that of others) saving it up now is a waste of time; far better to actually use it to benefit the sporty types of our community NOW. Never mind hanging about waiting to see if there might be a possibility of a chance that it could be contributed to the new WHS - get it working where it can do some sports stadium/ facility good as soon as possible.

But those who control the money we donated don't see it that way. And as they won't let anyone else join, there's nothing anyone can do about it.

----------


## Chrisf1961

Im lost on this thread totally ....poss new supporter to WA as posted on the sports forum before ...is there problems at the club?

----------


## Tubthumper

> Im lost on this thread totally ....poss new supporter to WA as posted on the sports forum before ...is there problems at the club?


No Chrisf1961, I'll try to explain...

Wick Academy Development Fund (WADF) has nothing whatsoever to do with Wick Academy Football Club (WAFC), despite the former (WADF) having been formed by the then-Chairman and Secretary of the latter (WAFC) and some friends, and set up to build a top-class football stadium for WAFC and support sporting endeavour in the area, although WAFC and all other sporting endeavours in the area are unable to benefit from the funds raised so far. 

That said, while the now-Chairman & Secretary of WADF were then-Chairman & Secretary of WAFC, by their own admission the club was going down the pan (see page 14 and 15) both in sporting and financial terms) requiring one (WAFC) to be bailed out by the other (WADF) against the wishes of those running the WADF. 

Most people thought that one existed to 'Develop' the other, although no-one outside the closed ranks of the WADF membership had a say in what was going on, except those WAFC members who only found out they were WADF members when they were thrown out for being 'troublemakers'.

As you can imagine, the whole situation around money being raised to build a stadium for the club which the club couldn't access to save itself from disappearance, despite being controlled by the same two goons, made people a bit annoyed, and a coup took place in around 2002 where the Chairman & Secretary were given the _derriere velocite_ and WAFC moved on. It now raises its own funds and is doing OK. 

Fundraising by WADF (to Develop Wick Academy?) has continued (although it has nothing to do with Wick Academy) with the intention of establishing a football stadium for Wick and environs (although WAFC have no say in what goes on in the registered charity, along with just about everyone else) and there is £135 000 of money that was donated by people who, like me, because of the name thought they were helping WAFC. Apparently a bit of ground was found, but disappeared so because of troublemakers there can be no progress (according to the Chairman, who is apparently the only one who can run the show.)

Meanwhile, it seems that WADF won't really talk to anyone (including the press, the MSP, the MP and the OSCR unless they REALLY have to, their Chairman tells anyone that asks what's going on that it's none of their expletive business (and finally got done for threatening people) and we all got told we can't be members although membership is open. And they won't tell us what they're doing because we were nasty to them and are out to cause trouble. OSCR are looking into... oh I can't be bothered explaining, you'll just have to read the thread and have your brain turned to cheese like the rest of us.

Support the club, they're great. Buy the Scorrie Scoop tickets, it raises funds for the club. Ask what the hell the WADF think they're up to. 

It's quite simple, do you understand?

----------


## Chrisf1961

Lol my heads completley bamboozled ! Yes im hoping to get to the next home game was just asking a couple of questions about the club on the sports thread.

----------


## Tubthumper

Don't worry about it, the club's sound!  :Smile:

----------


## Chrisf1961

Well thats good to hear Tub i will have a good read of the thread later when my 5 year old is in bed ! Just impossible to take it all in .... looking foward to popping down seeing them play...beats over paid so called professional tosspots of the team i support.

----------


## ducati

> Well thats good to hear Tub i will have a good read of the thread later when my 5 year old is in bed ! Just impossible to take it all in .... looking foward to popping down seeing them play...beats over paid so called professional tosspots of the team i support.


 ::  ::  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

Overpaid tosspots... it's funny when you think of how, at its pinnacle, the 'people's game' has become the domain of overpaid prima-donnas, dodgy businessmen and media empires. Its just as well the grass-roots stuff like Wick Academy FC and all the other wee local sides, the beergut leagues, summer fitba', bairns teams and so on still exists, it sort of harks back to a finer time.

So let's get that money working for local sport!

----------


## rob murray

> Overpaid tosspots... it's funny when you think of how, at its pinnacle, the 'people's game' has become the domain of overpaid prima-donnas, dodgy businessmen and media empires. Its just as well the grass-roots stuff like Wick Academy FC and all the other wee local sides, the beergut leagues, summer fitba', bairns teams and so on still exists, it sort of harks back to a finer time.
> 
> So let's get that money working for local sport!


yep, great team WAFC, great crack at the ground to ! real football for real people

----------


## fender

> yep, great team WAFC, great crack at the ground to ! real football for real people


Can not argue with that Rob. A better class of supporter however in the South Stand. No prawns for us!!!

----------


## Tubthumper

I heard there used to be poops on the pitch, but prawns in the North Stand? Sounds a bit posh to me!

----------


## Tubthumper

What sporting people in Wick & Environs could benefit from some financial investment in the short term?

----------


## rob murray

> I heard there used to be poops on the pitch, but prawns in the North Stand? Sounds a bit posh to me!


No prawns, but crackin spread ( possibly the best in the league ) Aye still are the occasional poops on the pitch...but they are usually thrashed lol lol

----------


## pat

Anyone heard anything about a report from OSCR yet or any information as to any movement with the funds held by this committee?

Only asking as I would like to know before visit to Edinburgh next week on my way to Caithness for a few days.  
I may consider visiting OSCR to try to find out what is happening with this charity money before I head up north to go tapping on doors to try to find and record some answers from the folk on this committee.

----------


## Kevin Milkins

> Anyone heard anything about a report from OSCR yet or any information as to any movement with the funds held by this committee?
> 
> Only asking as I would like to know before visit to Edinburgh next week on my way to Caithness for a few days. 
> I may consider visiting OSCR to try to find out what is happening with this charity money before I head up north to go tapping on doors to try to find and record some answers from the folk on this committee.


 
I was only thinking this morning that it has all gone quiet again, "Tubs hasn't been taken out has she/he"? :: .

Don't forget to come and say hi when you are in Wick. ::

----------


## Tubthumper

Still here, just waiting for word from the Man... :Smile:

----------


## Phill

Ooooooh, I'm waiting on word from the Lady!

----------


## katarina

I've not been on the org for a long time, and here it is, this arguement still going on. I thought by now it would be all done and dusted, thanks to the org. How on earth are those people allowed to get off with this?  Does this mean anyone can start a so called charity, raise money, refuse to give out info, refuse to hold an open AGM, in fact do whatever they want with the money?

----------


## pat

Yes Phil, it is ladies I have been dealing with at OSCR, 

Tubs - is it the Man from Del Monte you are awaiting, or from WADF Committee, or the knock on the door from the boys in blue asking you to help with their enquiries into a local charity?

Kevin - shame it will not be Orgers Curry night when I am up this time - but we can have our own orgers curry night.

Wonder what reception I will get from any of the committee if I approach them to ask some questions I wish answered - will I be told to foxtrot off as told previously?

----------


## WICKER10

Plenty going on in the Background WADF will have to start to give answers soon or they are going to end up in front of a Judge in the court of session , to account for there actions
There actions with *OUR* money have to be accounted for.

----------


## pat

Wicker 10

Will they have the money to pay for their defence or will they hope that comes out of the WADF?

It is not their money they are keeping - they committee are accountable for the monies collected and to ensure this money is carefully controlled and invested correctly, ensure the accounts are correctly kept and audited.

If the committee had been above board and open in the first place none of this would be happening - in other words nobody else to blame but themselves as far as I am concerned.

If they did not like what was happening - resign and state in your resignation letter why you are resigning and keep a copy for future use if needed.  By continuing they are condoning the silence and IMHO breaking the constitution rules of many charities and groups I have been associated during my time on this earth.  

They have to answer questions.

----------


## Tubthumper

The intention was to provide a sports complex. They (that's the apparently closed community of WADF) have raised money but in the process have lost all support. And now they cannot raise any more money to fulfill their aims (although the only fundraising option they've looked at seems to be their once-lucrative AT tickets) so they're looking at piggy-backing with another project.

Orgers: Please help the WADF identify where they went wrong. Post the reasons why you think they've ground to a halt and let them know what they need to do to move forward.

----------


## Corrie 3

> Orgers: Please help the WADF identify where they went wrong. Post the reasons why you think they've ground to a halt and let them know what they need to do to move forward.


 Thats easy Tubs,
They need to admit that they have gone wrong and cant handle the Fund. They then have to ask if anyone is willing to take over the fund and get things moving again.
If they dont do this then they can expect their collars to be felt very soon.
I do think their actions are really unlawful and I wonder just how much of the raised funds are left!!!
I think its time for some real action.

C3... ::

----------


## pat

Folk have been asking for a very long time what was the money being raised funding, what was it being spent on, where was the money being invested  - all anyone has got in answer has been to be fobbed off or worse.  Everyone has to be responsible for their actions and this committees time for answering is up now but they still do not want to answer anyone, this can only go on until the system (OSCR) deals correctly and investigates the case fully, as is being done by OSCR now.

As far as I am concerned the committee need to hand this money over to enable the money to be used for the reasons this charity was started - as in their constitution, whatever this may be, if that is not feasible then it should be used for the benefit of Caithness.

Does not matter how WADF tried to regenerate or reinvent itself nobody would ever trust the name again - does not matter if all the committee changed and everything was above board - mud sticks and can never be entirely removed and folks memories are extremely long up in Caithness.

----------


## W.A.D.F. (SC032787)

At around 9-00pm last night, I made an informative post here including an update for the public as to the current situation regarding W.A.D.F. & O.S.C.R.

By 9-30pm the post had disappeared - *Where has it gone? Who removed it? and what was their reason for doing so?*

Andrew J. Carter
Secretary
Wick Academy Development Fund

----------


## Niall Fernie

The post was removed as you had named one of our members and posted the detail of a private message.

----------


## John Little

It was still there at 9.52pm when I saw it- and it was gone by 10.00pm because you broke the anonymity rule and posted part of a private letter on this thread.

So it was removed - and quite right too.  Shocking behaviour!

----------


## Corrie 3

> At around 9-00pm last night, I made an informative post here including an update for the public as to the current situation regarding W.A.D.F. & O.S.C.R.
> 
> By 9-30pm the post had disappeared - *Where has it gone? Who removed it? and what was their reason for doing so?*
> 
> Andrew J. Carter
> Secretary
> Wick Academy Development Fund


Shocking Mr.Carter,I coudnt believe what I read.

 I also had posts removed on here and as far as I know mine didnt break any Forum rules but thats life, get over it!!.

C3.... ::

----------


## Dadie

Corrie your posts must have broken the rules or in a case of a for sale item it might have been sold and the thread removed.
Read the rules.
You signed up to abide to them.....
Andrew you can put a general update back on here.
But do not name people or copy pms!

----------


## Tubthumper

I understand the 'lost post' contained the text of a very nice conciliatory Private Message I sent to WADF on 13th August after I'd finally received the documents I asked for. If only they had responded to it, we could have avoided all the bitterness and bad feeling that's been generated... but (as usual) arrogance & self-importance meant they couldn't lower themselves to even acknowledge it. I can forward the content to anyone that wants to see it. I did think that actually leaving the name on when they posted it here was a bit pants though! :: 

Anyway, I'm up for hearing what wonderful things they've managed to achieve. Come on Andrew, Jackie's ordered you to get the good news out... you'd better hurry, chop chop!

----------


## Corrie 3

No need to send me a copy Tubs..............I read it last night along with the non statement about how things are(n't) progressing with the Fund!!!!

For them to blow your anonimity is absolutely shocking and if it were me I would be furious.

C3.... ::  ::

----------


## Kevin Milkins

> For them to blow your anonimity is absolutely shocking and if it were me I would be furious.
> 
> C3....


Yer, so would I... ::

----------


## katarina

> No need to send me a copy Tubs..............I read it last night along with the non statement about how things are(n't) progressing with the Fund!!!!
> 
> For them to blow your anonimity is absolutely shocking and if it were me I would be furious.
> 
> C3....


wwhere is it?

----------


## Corrie 3

> wwhere is it?


 It got took down by the Mods Katarina...and quite right too. A real bad breach of the forum rules but the WADF only go by their own rules dont they?

C3.... ::

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

OOOooo see what happens when you take your eye off the ball  ::  I missed all the action.  :: 

I reckon someone's feeling the pressure and it aint our Tubs  :Wink:

----------


## Tubthumper

Pressure? I'm as cool as a polar bear's buttocks, me. 




Mind you, I'd better lock the doors tonight, now I'm a celebrity!  ::

----------


## cuddlepop

> Pressure? I'm as cool as a polar bear's buttocks, me. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mind you, I'd better lock the doors tonight, now I'm a celebrity!


Now arent polar bears cute and cuddley to look at but would tear a "man" apart in seconds.
Brilliant description of you Tubs, WADF are running scared,must have seen the "polar bear" in you. :Wink:

----------


## katarina

> It got took down by the Mods Katarina...and quite right too. A real bad breach of the forum rules but the WADF only go by their own rules dont they?
> 
> C3....


Why don't they put it back on minus the breach?  Was there anything illuminating in it?   Was the breach a delibrate ploy to have it removed ASAP?
And a question to the mods, could you not just have edited out the breachy bits?

----------


## Niall Fernie

I think that moderating the forum takes up enough time as it is without adding editing users posts as well.

Posts are removed for good reason if it the OP wants to repost without breaching the forum rules then fair enough.

----------


## W.A.D.F. (SC032787)

Now that Niall Fernie has proved that he is indeed capable of conducting some moderation, perhaps he and his colleague(s) will take some time to review this thread and moderate the many obvious infringements contained within it appropriately.

As I said in the removed posting, In the interests of public transparency, I can confirm that W.A.D.F. are indeed subject to another O.S.C.R. inquiry and I have spent a lot of time and effort preparing a 65 page response which has been submitted to them.

W.A.D.F. is 100% confident that nothing is amiss with the operation of the charity and its funds, however from previous experience of O.S.C.R. we are quite prepared for the long haul and we don't expect any answers to be forthcoming any time soon.

Andrew J. Carter
Secretary
Wick Academy Development Fund

----------


## scotsboy

In the interests of public transparency I suggest Andrew Carter tells people who donated their hard earned cash what is happening with it. We wouldnt have a 29 page thread if there was public transparency, it is clear that people are not at all happy with the way the WADF is being run, it would do you more good to listen to people than try to shut them up.

----------


## superted

This is getting ridiculous, Mr Andrew Carter has written a 65 page reponse to the good people at O.S.C.R, however he can't write a few lines in this forum explaining what the comittee are doing with the people of Caithness monies. 

How can they complain about the people asking questions when they are being so secretive!!! To be honest, a 65 page response seems pretty excessive and could be an indicater that they have something hide? Whatever their game is, they are certainly not doing themselves any favours and I'm really not sure what they are trying achieve by this pathetic gesture!!!!

----------


## Corrie 3

It would be nice if Mr.Andrew Carter explained the way forward for the fund...I doubt he ever will though because I think he and I both know that the fund cant go forward, it is stuck, it cant go back and it cant go forward because no one in Caithness has any faith in it anymore and will not contrbute one single penny further into it.
Come on Mr.Carter, if you can write a 65 pager to the OSCR then you can do a half page to all who were daft enough to put money and faith into the fund.

C3... ::

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Now that Niall Fernie has proved that he is indeed capable of conducting some moderation, perhaps he and his colleague(s) will take some time to review this thread and moderate the many obvious infringements contained within it appropriately.


*meooowwwwww !!!* since Niall and team are missing what you are obviously seeing maybe you can point out the obvious infringements like a nice boy so that they can act even quicker than having to troll this whole thread :: !





> As I said in the removed posting, In the interests of public transparency, I can confirm that W.A.D.F. are indeed subject to another O.S.C.R. inquiry and I have spent a lot of time and effort preparing a 65 page response which has been submitted to them.
> 
> W.A.D.F. is 100% confident that nothing is amiss with the *operation of the charity and its funds,* however from previous experience of O.S.C.R. we are quite prepared for the long haul and we don't expect any answers to be forthcoming any time soon.
> 
> Andrew J. Carter
> Secretary
> Wick Academy Development Fund


What operation of the charity and the funds? No beggar apart from the chosen few on the committee has seen anything of any substance from this charity in the last few years and dont dare bang the drum of its all the troublemakers fault that doesn't work.  :: 

Exactly what seems to be causing you the most grief is the lack of operation of the charity. The lack of willingness to allow new members on board. The lack of willingness to enter into any kind of dialogue with anyone other than an official body who has a darn site more clout than Joe Bloggs, who has donated their hard earned cash into the pot of money which I have no doubt in my mind is completely intact in fact thats the issue ......none of it seems to be going anywhere on anything to do with sports in Caithness.

To the members of the ordinary supportive public there is a total lack of apparent progress with any of this charities objectives.

What is the point then of continuing this whole saga ??


As for in for the long haul with O.S.C.R I have no doubt that the members of the public who have complained are also in for the long haul until they see some progress with funds that are just lying apparently idle in a bank account and a committee that seems to be sticking two fingers up to most folk and digging their heels in in what can only be described as sheer bloody mindedness.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Tubthumper

There's a word that describes people who always blame every one else for their misfortune. For the life of me I can't think of what it is though. Can anyone help?



There's another one that describes someone who, when the poop is about to hit the propeller, can even manage to have a dig at the Regulator!  ::

----------


## Metalattakk

> There's a word that describes people who always blame every one else for their misfortune. For the life of me I can't think of what it is though. Can anyone help?


Narcissist.




> There's another one that describes someone who, when the poop is about to hit the propeller, can even manage to have a dig at the Regulator!


Guilty?  :Wink:

----------


## Tubthumper

> Narcissist


Hmmm... [consults Wikipedia] narcissism 
*
unprincipled narcissist* - including antisocial features. A charlatan - is a fraudulent, exploitative, deceptive and unscrupulous individual.*

fanatic type* *narcissist* - including paranoid  features. A severely narcissistically wounded individual, usually with  major paranoid tendencies who holds onto an illusion of omnipotence.  These people are fighting the reality of their insignificance and lost  value and are trying to re-establish their self-esteem through grandiose  fantasies and self-reinforcement. When not able to gain recognition or  support from others, they take on the role of a heroic or worshipped  person with a grandiose mission.*

Collective narcissism:* ...a  form of in-group identification tied to an emotional investment in an  unrealistic belief about the unparalleled greatness of an in-group. Collective narcissists react  with hostility in response to group based criticism. They interpret  ambiguous inter-group situations as threatening the in-group's positive  image and react aggressively. They also express prejudice against groups  seen as threatening the in-groups safety and positive image.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Hmmm... [consults Wikipedia] narcissism 
> *
> unprincipled narcissist* - including antisocial features. A charlatan - is a fraudulent, exploitative, deceptive and unscrupulous individual.*
> 
> fanatic type* *narcissist* - including paranoid  features. A severely narcissistically wounded individual, usually with  major paranoid tendencies who holds onto an illusion of omnipotence.  These people are fighting the reality of their insignificance and lost  value and are trying to re-establish their self-esteem through grandiose  fantasies and self-reinforcement. When not able to gain recognition or  support from others, they take on the role of a heroic or worshipped  person with a grandiose mission.*
> 
> Collective narcissism:* ...a  form of in-group identification tied to an emotional investment in an  unrealistic belief about the unparalleled greatness of an in-group. Collective narcissists react  with hostility in response to group based criticism. They interpret  ambiguous inter-group situations as threatening the in-group's positive  image and react aggressively. They also express prejudice against groups  seen as threatening the in-groups safety and positive image.


whooosshhhh momment for Alice too many big words here for me

I likes to keeps it seemples


W.A.D.F.

Withering And Dithering Fund   :Wink:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

There's another one that describes someone who, when the poop is about to hit the propeller, can even manage to have a dig at the Regulator!  :: [/QUOTE]

Three words needed here


Silly, silly, boy   ::

----------


## Tubthumper

> W.A.D.F.
> Withering And Dithering Fund


Waffling And Denying Failure?

(But heading for 45 000 views!)

----------


## Tubthumper

We All Desire Facilities!

----------


## Corrie 3

*w**icked  A**nd   D**eceitful  Farce.*


*C3.......*

----------


## Wario

> *w**icked A**nd D**eceitful Farce.*
> 
> 
> *C3.......*


Yes I like that one!

Delighted that OSCR are back on the case.  Hopefully the end is in sight, does anyone know what powers they have to appoint a replacement committee or to freeze the bank account etc.

----------


## Tubthumper

> ...does anyone know what powers they have to appoint a replacement committee or to freeze the bank account etc.


Away back in the mists of time [post #281] Mr Carter informed us poor outsiders that:

"In spite of the misguided  claims of some individuals, especially those online, no one has any  right to either stake a claim to that money or to tell us, the charity’s  custodians, what to do with it."

Perhaps the OSCR will direct that new committee members should be recruited as after ten years the existing (apparently fixed and self-electing - how can we find out when we can't join the 'secret' club?) committee have proved unable to (a) make any progress towards the charity's aims (b) get any support from the community and (c) stop shouting at people in the street.

----------


## WICKER10

> Away back in the mists of time [post #281] Mr Carter informed us poor outsiders that:
> 
> "In spite of the misguided  claims of some individuals, especially those online, no one has any  right to either stake a claim to that money or to tell us, the charitys  custodians, what to do with it."
> 
> Perhaps the OSCR will direct that new committee members should be recruited as after ten years the existing (apparently fixed and self-electing - how can we find out when we can't join the 'secret' club?) committee have proved unable to (a) make any progress towards the charity's aims (b) get any support from the community and (c) stop shouting at people in the street.


Well said but dont Think point C will happen ,there Chairman was shouting in Tesco carpark about his FUND the other night  he seems to forget it is our Fund everyone who gave to it it is our fund .
Hopefully  oscr will take action now and not lie to there lies and inactions

----------


## Chrisf1961

I dont really know much about what has happened here but let me ask a straight question ,if monies are being witheld and nothings seems to be happeneing with facilities that these monies were raised for then arnt the police etc not involved in prosecution ?

----------


## Tubthumper

> ...there chairman was shouting in Tesco carpark about his FUND the other night


Perhaps the pressures of Chairmanship are proving too much after all this time. Any decent committee would have given the guy a break after three years and let someone else take the strain. 

I hope he's not going to sue the Fund for injury due to stress.  ::

----------


## Corrie 3

> ,there Chairman was shouting in Tesco car park about his FUND the other night


Well, technically speaking it *is* his Fund.......Cos he has it and no one else does.....and it looks like no one else will ever see any of this money ever again.
As someone suggested earlier, I reckon its time to call in the C.I.D.

C3... ::

----------


## Tubthumper

It's a pity our poor WADF Secretary felt he had to go to the trouble of writing 65 pages. Maybe 5 pages would have sufficed?

Or perhaps he should stand down and let someone else take on the role he's been stuck with for 10 years or more!  ::   Voluntary work can be hard & thankless at times

Shame on that committee for being so cruel to its members!

----------


## John Little

Alright - I bet I am not the only one- so I'm going to ask.  Why was this man shouting in Tesco carpark about the fund- and what was he shouting?

I am dying of curiosity.

----------


## Kevin Milkins

> alright - i bet i am not the only one- so i'm going to ask. Why was this man shouting in tesco carpark about the fund- and what was he shouting?
> 
> I am dying of curiosity.


Roll up, roll up, come and buy a ticket.

My fund needs you.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Roll up, roll up, come and buy a ticket.
> 
> My fund needs you.



lol Kevin you are funny  ::  

Next we will be seeing the old style war type posters going up 

Wick Academy Fund Needs You  :Wink:

----------


## Kevin Milkins

Or more appropriately.

----------


## Corrie 3

> Alright - I bet I am not the only one- so I'm going to ask. Why was this man shouting in Tesco carpark about the fund- and what was he shouting?
> 
> I am dying of curiosity.


*"Double Clubcard points with every ticket bought"*

C3...... :Wink:  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

"Will someone PLEASE take over this blooming Chairman job, I'm sick of it!"  ::

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

On a more serious note this thread has highlighted one serious issue about this whole fiasco. 

*Its become a joke.*   ::  As you can see from the posts above


The knock on effect that something like this has on other charities is something that also has to be addressed. 

Times are hard and getting harder. Many charities are finding it difficult to raise funds. In a small community such as Wick/Caithness when rumours run rife and accusations of lack of transparency regarding  a local charity that seems to be doing nothing except sitting on publicly raised funds will have a major negative impact on other fund raisers.
The public will loose faith in such organisations and when you read this whole fiasco who can blame them.   :Frown: 

WADF has only itself to blame now for its demise as in all honesty there is no way forward for a charity that has lost public faith. The longer this goes on, the more negativity that will create and this is not all the fault of Joe Public now is it !

----------


## Chrisf1961

So the question remains what is everyone going to do about it?
Its your brass remember.............

----------


## WICKER10

> On a more serious note this thread has highlighted one serious issue about this whole fiasco. 
> 
> *Its become a joke.*   As you can see from the posts above
> 
> 
> The knock on effect that something like this has on other charities is something that also has to be addressed. 
> 
> Times are hard and getting harder. Many charities are finding it difficult to raise funds. In a small community such as Wick/Caithness when rumours run rife and accusations of lack of transparency regarding  a local charity that seems to be doing nothing except sitting on publicly raised funds will have a major negative impact on other fund raisers.
> The public will loose faith in such organisations and when you read this whole fiasco who can blame them.  
> ...


Well said .
As WADF  commitee members  look at this Board is it Not about time that the members of this Commitee have a think about the damage there actions are doing.
There Fundraising is going Nowhere as all public faith has been lost in them due to there own actions.
Why do you as Commitee Members not Draw a Line under this whole Fiasco and transfer you funds to Wick Acd Football Club as it is under there good name this whole fund was started.
Failing that perhaps you could give it to another local charity that would benefit the Whole community eg,League of Friends of Caithness General Hospital.
Or perhaps you wish this to Rumble on and on

----------


## Tubthumper

If there is too much ego damage involved in giving the Wick Academy Development Fund to Wick Academy (which is where I and many others thought our donations were going) then maybe the cash could be divided amongst the local amateur or kids football teams?

Or maybe it could go into the new Halkirk sports-centre pot, after all Wick Academy and many other sporty types will gain from using the facilities.

I think the rebuilt WADF committee, once all the historical nonsense is out the way, should look at all options and not just lob the cash into the Council pot for the High School.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> If there is too much ego damage involved in giving the Wick Academy Development Fund to Wick Academy (which is where I and many others thought our donations were going)


Like you I always thought that this is where my money was going when I bought these tickets I was never aware that this money was going to a separate pot.

must have been in the small print

nearly forty six thousand views so lots of interest still !!

----------


## Chrisf1961

Thing is folks all this talking isnt going to get yours and the people of Caithness,s money back is it ? 
So what is the next step ? Is this all talk and no action ?

----------


## DeHaviLand

If You read the whole thread Chrisf, you will see that the next step is already in place. Representations have been made to OSCR, and the ball is now firmly in their court while they conduct their investigations.

----------


## Tubthumper

Chris, this registered charity falls under the regulatory control of the OSCR. As was pointed out at the top of the last page, the WADF are now being looked into by their Regulator. So after over 500 posts, 46 000 views and an awful lot of wondering, we just have to wait and let these things take their course. Although Mr Carter doesn't have much faith in the OSCR, he criticised them on here for being slow.

But be calm, surely something will be done to help the WADF this time. [Sorry DH, you beat me to it!]

----------


## Chrisf1961

Right sorry i do apologise i should have read the whole thread( not got the time im afraid) whats this oscr ?

----------


## WICKER10

> Thing is folks all this talking isnt going to get yours and the people of Caithness,s money back is it ? 
> So what is the next step ? Is this all talk and no action ?


Chris you really should take the time to read the whole thread before you make statements like that.
There is plenty going on about WADF but for reasons Legal and otherwise they cannot be posted on here at the moment.
I am sure OSCR will issue a statement in due course,they have a section on there website for such notices

----------


## WICKER10

*OSCR that is quoted in a lot of the postings on this thread relates to -The Office Of Scottish Charity Regulator.*
WWW.OSCR.ORG.UK

----------


## Tubthumper

This thread is certainly the most viewed that I can remember. But who's going to grab the 600th post?  :Smile:

----------


## Phill

I think WADF should claim the 600th post with their plans to move the fund forward and a request for new members to push the fund towards its goal.













 ::

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

Ahhhh dont be silly   ::  

a plan move things forward and WADF in the same sentence  


Anyway Alice wanted to have the 600th post. 

WADF can have the 700th all things come to those who wait.....and wait .....and wait.......... ::

----------


## Corrie 3

> Ahhhh dont be silly  
> 
> a plan move things forward and WADF in the same sentence 
> 
> 
> Anyway Alice wanted to have the 600th post. 
> 
> WADF can have the 700th all things come to those who wait.....and wait .....and wait..........


If we are lucky they might just post an update on post number 1000......but dont hold your breath.

C3.... ::

----------


## pat

You never know they may take the 666 post and confound us all with their open clear information and welcome anyone to become a member of the committee

----------


## W.A.D.F. (SC032787)

600 posts (although 40% are by one contributer) & 47000+ views - then nothing for a whole week......A regular on page 1 now found struggling on page 6 - has this thread gone completely underground?  ::

----------


## Corrie 3

> 600 posts (although 40% are by one contributer) & 47000+ views - then nothing for a whole week......A regular on page 1 now found struggling on page 6 - has this thread gone completely underground?


Nothing to report this week, ....as the WADF says..its going to be a long drawn out thing  now that OSCR are involved....
Unless you know something we dont?

C3... ::

----------


## Phill

Calm before the storm mebbe?  ::

----------


## WICKER10

> 600 posts (although 40% are by one contributer) & 47000+ views - then nothing for a whole week......A regular on page 1 now found struggling on page 6 - has this thread gone completely underground?


I sure YOU THE ARCHER could supply us the answers that all the public require.
Have you had a meeting of the secret five this week?

----------


## pat

Wicker 10 - like that one

The reason no one appears to be posting is probably now due to the fact I (probably many others) know they can sit back a little and relax as I (and probably many others) know OSCR and many other folk in senior positions of influence in this country are asking questions about  WADF and are very interested in the outcome of this prolonged saga.  
As everyone connected with Caithness in anyway wants WADF cleared up to become an open and clear cut charity with the money being used in an appropriate manner.

All anybody wants - open and clear cut information which was and is what WADF is not providing, why is everything so SECRET and UNDERCOVER, that is all folk are asking?

Folk are not out to hang, draw and quarter WADF committee - just plain and simple open communications would have had this sorted out long long ago, perhaps without involving other parties.  

If this charity's committee do not want to abide by the rules and be seen to be open they then have to take and deal with the consequences which comes in due to this ommission.

----------


## Tubthumper

> 600 posts (although 40% are by one contributer) & 47000+ views - then nothing for a whole week......A regular on page 1 now found struggling on page 6 - has this thread gone completely underground?


The Archer, thanks for pointing that out. I suppose we all just got bored with getting nowhere, and are simply waiting for the OSCR to find out what's happening.
I must confess I've been too busy recently to post much at all; I looked at giving up the day job but of course I couldn't afford to run a car if I wasn't working - who could?

Can I ask why 0% of your recent rare but erudite posts seem to have ignored questions asked previously?

Regarding the 40% of posts being from a single member (I assume you  refer to me), I've analysed them from my records and can break my own  contribution down so (approximately):
13.4% of my posts were asking for information on members and committee elections (never got to the bottom of that)
12.8% related directly to my requesting membership (and along with everyone else being refused)
4.75% pointed out that a charity trustee who gets busted for harassing people shouldn't really be in the job
13.9% wondered what progress the committee had made
17.8% cajoled the community to join the WADF to offer their help in getting a sports complex
9.25% pointed out that WADF haven't really let the community they're 'working for the benefit of' know what they were up to
12.1% asked for clarification of the WADF's massive post, particularly  where they claimed to have bailed out a failing football club but forgot  to mention that they were actually in charge of the football club while  it was failing (surprisingly that was ignored as well)
9.2% asked for information on the sole potential sports complex location that was identified and lost
6.8% reflected on the apparent ineptitude of the committee

EDIT - I forgot the one post where I apologised for referring to the committee as 'charlatans'. That'll skew the percentages a bit but och, it's just a bit of fun.

I wonder what percentage of the posts actually gave us any meaningful information on what is happening with our Sports Complex? Anyone care to tot them up for me?  ::  Or direct me to the appropriate website?

----------


## Tubthumper

Here's a hypothetical question:

You are a shareholder in a business. The business you invested in started off on a bad footing, has struggled along with a very poor image in its marketplace, and is now unable to gain income or purchase assets to meet its targets.

The same board of directors and chief executive have been in place since it started. They haven't changed tack for ten years, are very poor at communicating and have made sure you and other shareholders are unable to gain access to meetings.

What has gone wrong and what should you do?

----------


## pat

I thought the committee should not be hung drawn and quartered - Just sensible clear answers of what are they doing with the money which has been collected through the years and the accounts to go with it of course, all clear and what they intend to do with the money "in the pot" and the time llimits for the project(s).


Where is Riggerboy

Hang Em, Hang em, Hang Em - was that his phrase?

----------


## DeHaviLand

[quote=Alice in Blunderland;793982]Ermmm is this too drastic   :Wink: /quote]

No, no, no Alice, that will never do. For a start, theres no trap door. And if you just stood the intended miscreant fund-raiser on a stool, the rope is so long that the poor victim is going to end up with a broken ankle, or worse! ::

----------


## pat

Of course Alice

Just realised you must have meant - give the committee enough rope and they will hang themselves


Totally agree with you on this one - over 60 pages of a report???  If the report is anything like the rant on here - the committee have had the rope, dug their own holes, enough said but still have to wait for authorities to finish investigating and for OSCR to give their reports and for the other investigations to be completed.

I would like to be a fly on the wall when WADF committee action is being discussed at the various authorities investigating the work of this charity.   If I was a member of a panel investigating I would be laughing openly at the thought processes, excuses and ideas formulated by this committee - which is only from what the committee themselves have put on this site alone, that is before starting on over 60 pages of report they have stated they have sent in their report to OSCR

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

I have dismantled the gallows as I felt that I was being too harsh on them. 
 :: 
I do think that given enough rope this elite committee will hang themselves.

This has been going on for far too long and I doubt that anyone will get the truth and that includes OSCR . They will get what WADF think they will want to hear.  :: 

I have said this on so many occasions  that the actions of this committee are causing so much suspicion and doubt that it will eventually have a negative effect on other charitable local organisations if it has not already.  :Frown:

----------


## DMFB

> 600 posts (although 40% are by one contributer) & 47000+ views - then nothing for a whole week......A regular on page 1 now found struggling on page 6 - has this thread gone completely underground?


Andrew Carte if this is you as has been suggested before on this thread then I suggest you put your spoon away and stop stirring things up.  :: 
I have followed this whole sorry saga from the start and can only say what a disgrace that it has come to this situation.Hang your heads in shame.Enough of this nonsense and get your act together.
This committee has run its course and now needs fresh blood to take this fund forward any fool can see that even an old man like me!. Way back in your original story about how good the wadf are and how bad the people against you are you stated something about possibly approaching the Highland Council  regarding pitching the money in towards the new school what a red herring that one is. I bet if I pick up the phone and ask if that approach was ever made I would get a big resounding NO.  :: 
Now grow up and get on with the job of raising funds for the sporitng people of Caithness stop huffing and puffing about how bad everyone else is and listen to what many peoeple have been saying not just the people that post on here but the folks in Caithness who all are talking about this fund and its management. :: I have no doubt I will never see  a sports stadium but maybe my grandkids will.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> 600 posts (although 40% are by one contributer) & 47000+ views -





> Regarding the 40% of posts being from a single member (I assume you  refer to me),


Erm tubs I have had a quick look over the thread and give or take a few posts I may have missed Im sorry to say that it doesnt look like you have taken 40% of the posts.......keep on posting you might get the title eventually.. ::

----------


## Wario

Page 5 of todays Groat.  "Driver denies offences"  

The infamous chairman of WADF, John Gunn is going to trial for allegedly hitting a parked car and failing to stop and report the incident.

No doubt Mr Carter will be instructed shortly to issue a press release blaming the parked car, the police, OSCR or the usual troublemakers.

Expect to see Donald Findlay heading North any day now!

----------


## Corrie 3

> The infamous chairman of WADF, John Gunn is going to trial for allegedly hitting a parked car and failing to stop and report the incident.


Now why doesnt that surprise me ????

C3... ::

----------


## pat

As Wario says - which one is it of the following

a. the parked car jumped out and hit a moving vehicle

b. the police set it up to catch someone 

c. OSCR - to get back at this person for sending in over 60 page report

d.  did this person see me when I was last in Wick and was so shocked, not noticing in hurry to get away what had happened 

Can hardly wait for my Groat now to read about the complete item.

----------


## DMFB

> Page 5 of todays Groat.  "Driver denies offences"  
> 
> The infamous chairman of WADF, John Gunn is going to trial for allegedly hitting a parked car and failing to stop and report the incident.
> 
> No doubt Mr Carter will be instructed shortly to issue a press release blaming the parked car, the police, OSCR or the usual troublemakers.
> 
> Expect to see Donald Findlay heading North any day now!


The wrong kind of headlines in connection with a member of this fund.  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

That's one of the problems. It's always the wrong headlines or no headlines at all. 

I'll volunteer to be the WADF's press secretary, but only if (a) I'm allowed to join and (b) there can be a proper, open, clear and legitimate elections to the committee. 

What d'you think? :Smile:

----------


## DMFB

> That's one of the problems. It's always the wrong headlines or no headlines at all. 
> 
> I'll volunteer to be the WADF's press secretary, but only if (a) I'm allowed to join and (b) there can be a proper, open, clear and legitimate elections to the committee. 
> 
> What d'you think?


Sadly from what i have read i feel sure that the current committee would rather wind this fund up than hand it over to anyone or accept new membership from anyone in fact maybe this would be for the best as the damage appears to be done.If and thats a big IF anyone takes over this fund they will have a huge uphill struggle after years of negativity and mistrust.
good luck i admire your perseverance.

----------


## Tubthumper

620 posts (although 40% are NOT by one contributor) & 48 500 views -  then nothing for 4 days......A regular on page 1 now found  struggling on page 6 - has this thread gone completely underground?  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

Just looked at the Wick High School report (see Pantsman's new thread). It makes interesting reading, but I can't see a reference to the WADF's approaches to accommodate their £135 000. I'm sure they said they were working with the Council on this - perhaps I was wrong? ::  

Maybe they can come online again and let us know how the High School/ Sports Complex project is coming along?

----------


## Tubthumper

From page 15...
"One possibility that we are  currently exploring is whether or not we can become involved in  providing the initial funding capital towards any of the leisure and  sports developments which may be located at the proposed new Wick High  School."
So I wonder how it's going?  :Smile: 

"It is our wish that the money that we have raised is put to good  use and there may well be other ventures that we could become involved  in as long as they fall within the remit of our aims and constitution."
As it seems (from previous failed applications to WADF) that football teams, both Highland League and Childrens, and sports-oriented community education projects lie outside their remit, perhaps someone could tell us what the WADF's qualifying criteria are and just who will select the possible beneficiaries. 

Just in the name of public transparency, you understand?  ::

----------


## Blarney

I still can't comprehend why they are so secretive if they've nothing to hide.  Hang on in there Tubs you're doing a terrific job in keeping the public aware of the situation.

----------


## pat

as already said - although it may be on the back burner as far as Caithness.org and slipping down the pages that not what is actually happening -

it is like the Pentland Firth - can be calm on top but one heck of a lot of swirling and movement underneath which folk do not realise is going on 

the answers will be coming - agree with you Blarner - if they have nothing to hide why not be open, above board and let folk know what is going on, clear the air.

----------


## pat

disappointed as I was sure I was going to get an answer from OSCR today.

do not know why I had this idea that today was the day I was going to get an answer, should not be long unless they are having problems with answers given by the above charity.

----------


## WERDNA

::    Surprise surprise. AGM was held in airport taxi premises last monday night.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

Now the perfect public place to advertise this meeting would have been on this website !

Given the amount of interest I would have thought that they would have tried their very best to have advertised this as widely as possible to have as many as possible attend so as to push this forward in a new and more positive way.  ::

----------


## Blarney

I should know what the answer will be but how do we get hold of a copy of the minutes of this meeting?

----------


## Tubthumper

> Surprise surprise. AGM was held in airport taxi premises last monday night.


How did you find out? I mean, they usually keep everything close to their chests.
Wonder how many members attended?

----------


## Corrie 3

> I should know what the answer will be but how do we get hold of a copy of the minutes of this meeting?


Ha ha Blarney,
The WADF dont have Minutes..........
They have years ....and years.... and years.... and years ...and years ...and years.....and years !!

C3.... ::  :Wink:

----------


## pat

Agree with you Corrie they may end up doing more years and years and years and in a place they did not anticipate.
We await the outcome of the various sections of the authorities doing their researches and the answers provided by them - the first few I know about are OSCR, Inland Revenue and Customs, Benefit system, Highland Council for council related payment checks, I understand there are several other folk in authority looking into this fund so the outcomes are awaited from all the groups of folk investigating - no wonder someone had been shouting in tescos car park.

----------


## DMFB

> Surprise surprise. AGM was held in airport taxi premises last monday night.


I this is true then this is wrong so very wrong.Its a shame that despite everything that has been said and done whether members of this fund believe it to be good bad or meddling that they could not for once try to resolve this.A meeting in the office of one of the members taxi firms isnt very public nor is it very welcoming for members of the public.WHERE WAS THIS MEETING ADVERTISED  LET ME THINK IN THE TAXI OFFICE. WERDNA  hope you are a genuine member and not someone on the windup as this is a very serious topic indeed.I wonder if the meeting was with regard to doing something proactive  even if it was to transfer the money to another fund where it could be at least put to use.So many questions and not enough answers as usual and all involving public money. ::

----------


## Tubthumper

What shall we do to celebrate the 50 000th view?  :Grin:

----------


## Blarney

> Ha ha Blarney,
> The WADF dont have Minutes..........
> They have years ....and years.... and years.... and years ...and years ...and years.....and years !!
> 
> C3....


and the money they have is h...ours, h...ours, h...ours.....

----------


## Moira

Let's keep this in the public domain.  Excellent letter in the John o' Groat Journal today.  Sorry I can't provide a link.  It doesn't appear to be available online at the moment.

----------


## Niall Fernie

I agree, I have a bit of admin work to do that will bring further entertainment to this thread, but I'll keep you all hanging on and do it in the morning.

You shouldn't poke dogs with sticks, it might upset them  ::

----------


## Moira

I'm not sure what you're agreeing with Niall.  My post is genuine enough.  ::

----------


## DeHaviLand

> I agree, I have a bit of admin work to do that will bring further entertainment to this thread, but I'll keep you all hanging on and do it in the morning.
> 
> You shouldn't poke dogs with sticks, it might upset them


Ooh, big announcement! Cant wait.
Ach, I really cant, so i'm going to speculate that WADF are suing the .org for allowing their good name to be tarnished. Wait, thats stupid. WADF havent got a good name  ::

----------


## cuddlepop

This has been made a "sticky" and put to the top of the page.


Thing something serious brewing. :: 


As to the AGM if its true and wasnt well advertised that another "charity" rule broken. :Frown:

----------


## Niall Fernie

Anyone following this thread may have noticed that the name of the poster of these posts has changed:

http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...688#post793688

http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...750#post764750

http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...224#post754224

http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...391#post743391

http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...123#post743123

http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...742#post739742

http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...011#post737011

As it turned out, The Archer was a sock puppet account so I've merged the two accounts together.

----------


## Bobinovich

LOL some good detective work there Niall - another penny falls into place  ::

----------


## DeHaviLand

Hahahahaha, WADF dirty tricks department. Found out guys, though many had already suspected it. Thanks for the confirmation Niall. Those guys really are brainless, and keep on proving that they have something to hide.

----------


## squidge

These people are ridiculous. WHAT are they playing at? I am a director of a small charity based in Inverness and I would just DIE if people were saying the things about us that are being said on here. I would be utterly ashamed. Do they think this is some sort of game? Well Niall I hope that by merging these accounts you wipe any vestiges of smugness of their silly faces. Well done. 

If they gave answers rather than playing stupid
 games they might do a lot better and they would look far less stupid.

----------


## gollach

> Anyone following this thread may have noticed that the name of the poster of these posts has changed:
> 
> http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...688#post793688
> 
> http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...750#post764750
> 
> http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...224#post754224
> 
> http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...391#post743391
> ...


Entertainment, indeed! This character gives us more laughs than Morecombe & Wise Christmas specials   ::

----------


## DeHaviLand

I've just had a wee look see, and I reckon The Archer was sussed out by Tubthumper as far back as post no 179. Well done Tubs  :Smile:

----------


## Tubthumper

> Tubthumper- Woah go easy...I'm just sharing some knowledge i've gleaned from reading the charitable laws - that doesn't mean that i've anything to do with WADF.


Hmmm.... ::

----------


## Tubthumper

The WADF gave a number of fairly childish reasons why they wouldn't answer my questions about the conduct of the fund, including that I'd published extracts of their documents without their permission. But now they've been exposed on the site as web charlatans (and I won't be apologising this time) I guess all niceties can be laid aside. I have to admit, although I suspected some snake-in-the-grassery from The Archer, I still feel somewhat violated by their outrageous fib. Add to that the fact that the WADF saw fit to breach web etiquette by publishing my name, I'm a bit upset and tearful just now. But as I'm not a vengeful sort of person I'll just continue trying to gain information on behalf of the community. 

So anyway, from the WADF's Constitution (a document of public record unless I'm very much mistaken) 
*7. General Meetings:* _The Fund shall hold each year an Annual General Meeting which shall be held within fifteen months of the previous AGM to..._ 

and another relevant part, 
_8. Notices: At least 14 days notice and the agenda (including the wording of any motion to be put) shall be given to each member of any general meeting._ Now, does that mean that each member of the WADF (however many there are) must be given the notice, agenda and motions? Or should it be interpreted that 'each member of the general meeting' must be given the information? 

Key questions to our roguish pals: 
1. How many members does the WADF have? 
2. When was the last time a membership was granted? 
3. How many members attended the last AGM?

----------


## W.A.D.F. (SC032787)

*So...anonymity only applies when it suits Mr Niall Fernie......*

My wife, is very knowledgeable and is (was) a registered member on here. As such she is pefectly entitled to express her lucid opinion(s), and believe me she is none too pleased to not only have her postings hijacked but also to now be unable to contribute to any thread on this forum.

Did she do anything wrong? No... so why has Mr Fernie acted this way? Maybe he can explain himself?

In case Mr Fernie didn't notice, all W.A.D.F. (SC032787) postings were official and were accompanied by my name and address as per below. Even if the postings by "The Archer" were being made by W.A.D.F. we would surely have been entitled to the same level of anonymity as anyone else on this forum.

As a charity we are none too pleased either when a so called moderator has added independent viewpoints onto our official postings and claimed that they are from us.

The Communications Act 2003 makes interesting reading, especially section 127 which has successfully been doing the rounds in the courts and news articles recently.......

Andrew J. Carter
Secretary
Wick Academy Development Fund (SC032787)
16 Thurso Street
Wick
KW1 5LF

----------


## sandyr1

> *So...anonymity only applies when it suits Mr Niall Fernie......*
> 
> My wife, is very knowledgeable and is (was) a registered member on here. As such she is pefectly entitled to express her lucid opinion(s), and believe me she is none too pleased to not only have her postings hijacked but also to now be unable to contribute to any thread on this forum.
> 
> Did she do anything wrong? No... so why has Mr Fernie acted this way? Maybe he can explain himself?
> 
> In case Mr Fernie didn't notice, all W.A.D.F. (SC032787) postings were official and were accompanied by my name and address as per below. Even if the postings by "The Archer" were being made by W.A.D.F. we would surely have been entitled to the same level of anonymity as anyone else on this forum.
> 
> As a charity we are none too pleased either when a so called moderator has added independent viewpoints onto our official postings and claimed that they are from us.
> ...


Truly, quite Unbelievable/Devious~!
To an 'outsider' looking in....I am quite sure there will be a day of reckoning!

----------


## Tubthumper

Andrew, look; instead of always making with the bluster and legal threats why not just tell us how many members you have, how many were at the last AGM and when you last accepted a membership application. What have you got to lose?

And maybe your wife The Archer told you about the PMs I sent her? In one (24th September) I asked for information on who the community councillor might be, who had wrecked your plans? And suggested it might be possible to move forward with acquiring the land, if only the WADF would open up to its community? Seems to me, bearing in mind the noise you made about the land disappearing, a chance to get back on track might be a good thing, I can't believe she'd just ignore my offer...

----------


## Tubthumper

(Sorry still having trouble with net access)

----------


## WICKER10

> *So...anonymity only applies when it suits Mr Niall Fernie......*
> 
> My wife, is very knowledgeable and is (was) a registered member on here. As such she is pefectly entitled to express her lucid opinion(s), and believe me she is none too pleased to not only have her postings hijacked but also to now be unable to contribute to any thread on this forum.
> 
> Did she do anything wrong? No... so why has Mr Fernie acted this way? Maybe he can explain himself?
> 
> In case Mr Fernie didn't notice, all W.A.D.F. (SC032787) postings were official and were accompanied by my name and address as per below. Even if the postings by "The Archer" were being made by W.A.D.F. we would surely have been entitled to the same level of anonymity as anyone else on this forum.
> 
> As a charity we are none too pleased either when a so called moderator has added independent viewpoints onto our official postings and claimed that they are from us.
> ...


Mr Carter would it not be better to come out in the open and give us the answers that are required as it is our money WADF are playing about with YES our money members of the public.
To come out with your Threats just shows how Chidish this fund seems to be.
Just tell us the answers and what you plan to do with the funds as i think your WADF has run its course ,cant see any members of the public supporting you now

----------


## Niall Fernie

So what you are saying Mr Carter is that your wife had the account "The Archer" and on the post linked thus it was she: http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...750#post764750

Was when she was visiting you at your work (Dounreay) as the IP number attached to that post is that of UKAEA.

----------


## Niall Fernie

Also, who else is on this thread has a sock puppet account?

We have fairly simple tools to detect those people who have sock puppet accounts and when we detect them, especially ones which obviously have a motive to deceive those reading the posts, we merge the accounts.

If anyone has any information regarding anyone on our forum using a sock puppet account please feel free to let me know.

----------


## shazzap

> Also, who else is on this thread has a sock puppet account?
> 
> We have fairly simple tools to detect those people who have sock puppet accounts and when we detect them, especially ones which obviously have a motive to deceive those reading the posts, we merge the accounts.
> 
> If anyone has any information regarding anyone on our forum using a sock puppet account please feel free to let me know.


 
What is that please.

----------


## Niall Fernie

A sock puppet account is a secondary account set up by a user in order that they may agree with their own arguments or try and sway opinion against another user.  I'm sure that there are many other uses for this type of account but those are the basics.

----------


## Metalattakk

> So what you are saying Mr Carter is that your wife had the account "The Archer" and on the post linked thus it was she: http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...750#post764750
> 
> Was when she was visiting you at your work (Dounreay) as the IP number attached to that post is that of UKAEA.


LOL! 

So that knocks the old "The Communications Act 2003 makes interesting reading, especially section 127" threat on its veritable erse.

Excellent work, young Mr Fernie.  :Wink: 

Now, how about some answers, Mr Carter?

----------


## theone

> Was when she was visiting you at your work (Dounreay) as the IP number attached to that post is that of UKAEA.


Well done. Caught.

Lies, deception, and more lies.

Perhaps the Civil Nuclear Constabulary would be interested to hear that non-security cleared members of the public have access to a restricted network on site? Or maybe making deliberately deceptive, non business related postings on an internet forum would violate the employers terms and conditions of internet access in the workplace?

Threats and accusations of laws/rules being broken work both ways Mr Carter!

----------


## Tubthumper

Such breathtaking arrogance and ineptitude! Why do we continue to let these people look after our charity funds?   Guys, you can't even get it right when you tell fibs. You couldn't set up a Subuteo set properly, never mind a community sports centre.   Now give up will you?

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

Given that from more than one person we have been told that this thread has been highlighted to OSCR then this makes sorry, sorry reading for them.

Rather than digging the hole larger I would have given up if I were you.

----------


## Tubthumper

Now that the Secretary of the WADF Mr Andrew Carter, has been revealed as a teller of venison pies (they're like porky pies but much grander) he cannot carry on as a Charity Trustee. 

However, when he resigns (as he surely must, unless he fancies the humiliation of being once again turfed out) who will take his place? There are only the 4 other 'Honorary Officers' on the committee at the moment and no Ordinary Members. The WADF Constitution requires that a replacement be nominated, although if there are no other active members the WADF committee appears to be done for.

----------


## DeHaviLand

> So what you are saying Mr Carter is that your wife had the account "The Archer" and on the post linked thus it was she: http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...750#post764750
> 
> Was when she was visiting you at your work (Dounreay) as the IP number attached to that post is that of UKAEA.


And Mr Carter may do well to remember, in relation to the linked post above, that as friendly, beautiful and charming as his wife is, she is not a Weeker. And I dont suppose she would ever claim to be. You may pass on my regards to her Mr. Carter, and while you're at it, you should also apologise to her for involving her in your web of lies, deceit and disinformation. Shame on you.

----------


## Tubthumper

> As a charity we are none too pleased either when a so called moderator has added independent viewpoints onto our official postings and claimed that they are from us.


'Official' postings! My goodness don't they just love being official. I wonder if that's part of the 'narcissist' thing? You know, can't face up to irrelevance and powerlessness, coming up with grandiose schemes to reinforce their 'status'...

Anyway, all their 'official' posts seem simply stuffed with whining, self-important tat to me, I can't see where a moderator has added anything. Maybe Mr C could point out where he thinks our Mods have erred? 
Remember though, he thought 'The Archer' was someone else; maybe his memory's going after ten years of doing Jacky's bidding!

----------


## cd1977

Excellent work guys, keep it up.

Looks like the poltroons in charge of this money will be brought to heel and not before time.

----------


## superted

Brilliant!!!!!

WADF and in particular Mr Carter have put their foot well and truly in their mouth. Mr Carter can you confirm where exactly Mr Fernie broke the privacy rules by mentioning yourself or your wife??? I don't believe he did!!!!

----------


## Corrie 3

My first thoughts were "Unbelievable"...but thinking about it later we should have expected something like this arising.
Well and truly caught out and not someone who can be trusted with public money is my opinion.
 C3... ::

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

As the saying goes given enough rope.............................  ::

----------


## veritas

As Denis Healey once said

When you find yourself in a deep hole the first thing you must do is Stop Digging !

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

A couple of guidelines that I stumbled upon when looking into how to run a charity .....................

Instructions

Things You'll Need:
Fundraising experience
Marketing experience
Hands-on experience with the community  :: 
Management experience
Run a Charity and Make a Difference
1
Comply with the laws governing non-profit or charitable organizations at both the state and national level. You should also be aware of any local laws which may affect how you choose programming or programming sites for your charitable endeavors.
2
Surround yourself with people who are passionate about what they do. Working in the non-profit sector generally means doing more work for less pay and finding your enjoyment in the fringe benefits--seeing how you can affect change in your community and nationwide. Those who you choose to work with should reflect a similar enjoyment in what they do. :: 
3
Put in place a system of regular review to ensure that your charity stays on track towards its mission and intermediate goals.  By preparing and reviewing an outline of the steps your charity will take to achieve its mission at regular intervals, you can correct any missteps you may take along the way.  :Wink: 
4
Operate in a method that is fiscally sound by preparing and adhering to a budget which stays within your charity's annual fund raising capabilities. The skills of a trained development professional are essential in creating these realistic fund raising goals and seeking out grants and other sources of funds to fill in the gaps where necessary.
5
Deliver your charitable services in a cost-effective and efficient manner by recruiting and maintaining dedicated and well-trained volunteers. At the core of any successfully run charity are the individuals who donate their time to aid it in the achievement of its mission and goals.
6
Put in place adequate training practices for staff and volunteers to ensure the protection of vulnerable populations you may work with such as children. Create clear written policies regarding how staff and volunteers are to relate to the population your serve highlighting issues such as appropriate contact and privacy protection.

----------


## sandyr1

I have worked as a Volunteer for numerous Charities, and your instructions are excellent.
I don't know about the UK., but some places have guidelines that a certain amount of 'Receipted' income must be spent within a certain time/not into too many years!
Rich...you are the expert/ wherefor art thou?

----------


## superted

Ahhh the silence tells a story hahaha

I would have loved to have seen Mr Carters face!!!!

----------


## cherokee

Basically I don't have much understanding about this thread...........

BUT I CAN SPOT A LIE WHEN I SEE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   ::  :: 

Utterly DISGUSTING how "certain indivduals" can try to pull the wool over the very eyes of those who they are "supposed" to be representing !!

----------


## Tubthumper

16th December 2010 19:25  


> What shall we do to celebrate the 50 000th view?


Good grief, there's been nearly 3500 views of this thread in only four days!    I wonder what could have sparked such a surge in interest?

----------


## DMFB

I have followed this thread from early on and I can say this is getting silly.This is no way for representatives of any charity organisation to behave thenselves.Shame on you sock puppet accounts indeed.Yes more than one member in the same house can have membership.But at work you have truly been caught out.As they say silence is golden and suddenly Mr Carter you have fallen very silent.  ::

----------


## pat

Cannot understand why this committee are suddenly so silent - they had plenty to say when they thought they were incognito.

The committee must be worried this is more amunition for OSCR and other authorities which are digging to find the answers to where and what this charity, the committee members, have been and is actually doing with the money collected through the years.  

They now appear to have stopped digging but WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO COME CLEAN and let everyone know what has been happening or are they now to scared to face the music.

OSCR and other interested authorities are not going to give up - and neither are the interested folk on here and in the community.  This money was given for a reason and this reason has not been met and no information is forth coming.  
Answers have to be given in a clear and precise manner

----------


## Tubthumper

Oh, what a tangled web we weave
When first we set out to deceive
Like sorry tale of poor sock puppet
And fibbing secretary muppet

'The Archer' spoke quite clear concise
Despite our doubts they seemed quite nice
In joining in online debate
On awful charitable state

But soon the voice of mod boomed out
'This Archer is a sorry lout
A puppet of the Fund it's true
I've linked up all your posts for you!'

The irate screech of Carter came
(That's he of Secretary fame)
'How dare you link my wife's by-name
This Weeker girl, to Fund in shame!'

'I'll make complaint, you wait and see!'
We waited minutes one, two, three
And though of Mod we wondered why
He soon exposed a dirty lie

In case you haven't heard the tale
(A fishy one, as big as whale)
Our Secretary shifted blame
'It's wife's account!' he tried to claim

Although from work his post was sent
A place where wife could not have went
And so we fin'ly knew for sure
Trustworthiness in him is poor

So now he must resign in shame
To try and save WADF name
Although it is not very clear
Who'll take his place the Fund to steer

There's only five we know for sure
Because it's reputation's poor
If Carter's erse gets turfed out door
In secret club that just leaves four

But wait! Another one's in doubt
Jack Gunn acts like a football lout
Got busted for harassment spree
When he gets bounced that just leaves three

And though they've raised a pile of loot
New members they will not recruit
So what will they do now we wonder
After Mr Carter's blunder

Ten long years of secrecy
Is this how endgame's going to be?
Because of post with lie intent
The Fund to wall is finally sent?

Into the Fund, for sporting place
Big footie match and faster race
Put 135 of thousand quid
Is what folk of North Scotland did

Committee, do the decent thing
To sorry tale some closure bring
Just open doors to decent folk
Because you see, your Fund's a joke!

 ::

----------


## pat

Thanks for that Tubs - got them down to a tee

Just received my Groat today - Mr Dods letters does not mess about with his words either and now this request is being seen by most of the population of Caithness and now much more prominent on the org - so come on WADF committee be open and clear with progress.

----------


## DeHaviLand

Cant get a copy of the Groat here, and cant find the letter online. Can someone copy it here if its not too much trouble. Ta.

----------


## Droopy

Now everybody, before anyone suggests it, I have absoulutly no connection with WADF, or anyone involved in it, I did buy the odd ticket back in the day, (and probably a few more than some on this thread who are calling for heads on the chopping block). But could I suggest a Xmas white flag, (think France 1914! :Wink: )

Tubthumper, you've done a sterling job and have largly kept a line of integrity throughout the whole thread......but how about....this thread is temporarilly locked for the season of goodwill and let everyone reflect on whats unravled the last few months? The thread is now a sticky, so theres no fear of it becoming lost on page 6,7 or 8. It would also deter those with less than good intentions posting rumour or gossip just to scratch an itch or to cause anonomys misery for WADF members.

So how about it? You never know what New Year resoulutions some people might make if there cut a bit of slack over the holidays while they've had time to reflect over a mulled wine and a mince pie!


Seasons greetings and good will to all.

----------


## pat

Droopy - after all this time why should the folk asking questions give up, this committee are still not answering any questions put to them?

Until answers are given I do not see why this should be locked, the committee have had enough time to reply to all questions through the various mediums they have been asked but still they will not answer.

----------


## Corrie 3

Isnt that what the Committee want?...For us to shut up and go away so they can sit on OUR money for a little longer and do nothing?
Sorry, we aint gonna do that, this MUST have a positive outcome for the people of Caithness !!

C3.... ::

----------


## Tubthumper

I think a festive amnesty is a sound idea so this will be my last posting on the subject until 2011. But before knocking off, let's just reflect on this forum discussion. The thread came about because a community stung by charity scandals wanted reassurance that, in the absence of progress or information (or the official return to the charity regulator), the money we contributed to WADF would be used to provide sporting facilities as promised. 

The WADF's been an itch on our community's bottom since it was set up over ten years ago, and frankly hasn't changed its methods or attitude since then. If there had not been concerns about the WADF's conduct and fitness for purpose, there would have been no discussion. If the discussion hadn't thrown up legitimate doubts about the way it's run and the attitude of those involved, it would have petered out. And if the WADF committee had shown any willingness to change, I'm sure the community would have been supportive. But over 650 posts and 55 000 views later, it seems that nothing has changed at all which makes a lot of people angry. If the Fund committee want people's attitude to them to change, they have to change their own attitude, accept new members and hold open meetings, or continue to lose this argument and suffer the consequences.

So I'm taking a festive break, as Droopy suggests, to reflect on what needs to be done in the New Year for our community to resolve this 10-year irritation. 

Best wishes to all for a jovial Christmas break and a warm, prosperous and happy new year.

----------


## Moira

> Cant get a copy of the Groat here, and cant find the letter online. Can someone copy it here if its not too much trouble. Ta.


Ok DeHaviLand, since the letter is still not online, here you go.

_From Letters page of John o'Groat Journal dated 17/12/2010_

*"Why does community have no confidence in local development group?*

Sir - So the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator has decided that an inquiry into the Wick Academy Development Fund is appropriate, in response to concerns raised over a number of years by various interested people including myself.

Some £137,000 has been raised by the fund over the last 10 years.  Well done to those who did the work, and those who donated their hard-earned cash to support a good cause.

However, as someone who has donated to this fund in the past, I have to ask some questions:
*If this fund is "working on behalf of the community", why does the community seem to have no confidence in it?

*Why does it find itself unable to raise more money, or to move forward towards building a sports complex?

*Why does it seem impossible for interested people to join the fund when its constitution says it's "open to all who support its aims and objects"?

*How can a committee, which is unable to move forward, justify refusing membership applications from people who could help it towards its aims?

*How can people who claim to support football continue a fundraising exercise which diverts money away from local football endeavour?

*Why has there not been clear and open discussion about the fund, or even a simple web page, since the start of this sorry saga back in 2000?

I have sought to help the community find out what is happening with its money.  As (like many other bodies) the fund has a shortage of members willing to join the committee, I (and others) offered to help by joining and adding our expertise but we were all turned away.

I asked questions about the conduct of the fund and was refused answers.  It's a sad fact that the only road left when getting nowhere with a registered charity is to raise concerns with the regulator and let the official process take its course; but what an embarrassment for our community to have our charity subject to such an intervention twice.

Whatever happens with the OSCR inquiry, if this fund really wants to move forward for our benefit and avoid criticism, it should open itself up fully and pay attention to what its community has been saying for years.

Bryan Dods, Senigallia, Shebster"

----------


## DeHaviLand

Thank you very much Moira, have a lovely Christmas  :Grin:

----------


## pat

Thought you meant a permanent lock on the thread - do not mind a hold for the festive season.

----------


## Moira

> I think a festive amnesty is a sound idea so this will be my last posting on the subject until 2011.hes to all for a jovial Christmas break and a warm, prosperous and happy new year.  ,,,,,,


Oops, I'm all out of kilter here but wish you and yours all the best.

----------


## Tubthumper

> You never know what New Year resolutions some people might make if there cut a bit of slack over the holidays while they've had time to reflect over a mulled wine and a mince pie!


Well that was a nice wee break featuring goodwill to all men, and now it's back to normal service. 

How is everyone?  :Smile:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

Alice is just fine and dandy and with the New Year she hopes there will be some sort of end in sight for this long sorry twisted saga. Come on WADF or OSCR whichever one gets this saga sorted out gets a gold star.

A New Year a New beginning WADF dare I suggest make it your New Years resolution to win back the confidence of the public.

----------


## Tubthumper

Hiya Alice, good to see you back! 

I've missed the recent Groat & Courier, can someone advise me whether there was any response to the letter of 17/12 please?

----------


## Moira

No replies in the last two John o' Groat Journals Tubthumper but perhaps there have been a few letters held over due to the Festive articles, photos etc.  This would be especially relevant if the Editors of the JoG Journal had received any tomes for publication.  :Wink:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

Maybe the reply was too long to print and might appear on the org  :Wink:

----------


## Corrie 3

I get a feeling in my water that 2011 is the year when the WADF finally come clean and get things sorted once and for all, surely this cant be still going on in 2012???

Hapy New Year to all Forum Members...
C3....

----------


## Tubthumper

I've heard a rumour that the existing committee have been quietly speaking to trusted acquaintances. I wonder if there's a bit of secret recruitment going on? The committee 'reserve the right to refuse membership', but if they bar those with genuine concerns while recruiting yes-men and women they would (if it turned out to be true) be breaching their own Governing Document claim of an 'open membership' policy and could even be nepotistic.

I've also heard that people may have been 'warned off' with suggestions of legal proceedings against anyone querying the WADF's conduct. 

However, pointing out discrepancies, asking legitimate questions where there is reasonable doubt and highlighting wrongdoing is not against any law I'm aware of. A charity trustee telling fibs to gain advantage on a public forum is a different matter.

_Why not join in the WADF Options Poll, help OSCR (the Office of the Scottish Charities Regulator) get a feel for what our community actually wants from our charity? _ http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...F-Options-Poll

----------


## DeHaviLand

light relief

----------


## Tubthumper

I’ve no speakers on this blasted PC so I had to guess what the words were.  (Added Prince Phillip and Prince Charles as well) 


*JG*        “Ah’ve come aboot ‘e knighthood for ma Fund.”
*HMQ*   “Ai don’t know, my husband and I have heard some bad things about you and your chums Mr Gunn.”
*JG*        “ ‘At’s ‘at damned meeschief-makers again. They’re chust jealous, give me thur names an’ ah’ll get Andrew to threaten legal action.”
*HMQ*   “Phillip tells me you turned his membership application down. Can you explain why?
*JG*        “Ah dinna hev til explain wir policies to ye, ‘at’s a metter for the executive committee, an ‘ers nothing ye can do aboot id!”
*HMQ*   “Well you could at least tell me what the Fund’s financial position is.”
*JG*        “ ‘At’ll cost ye a tenner. Fur the ink an that, ivenow. We hev till keep ‘e matters secret from ‘e mischief-makers. So ye’ll no’ be allowed to tell anyone else what ye see.”
*PC*       “One does wonder why you’ve made no headway in ten years. Caithness needs investment, not a bunch of ninnies sitting around complaining. What on earth have you been doing all this time?”
*JG*        “At’s fur me til know, an’ ye til find oot! 
*PP*        “You horrible little man, I’ve a mind to give you a good thrashing!”
*JG*        ’At’s threatenin’ behaviour, an ah should know!”
*HMQ*   “Mr Gunn, you sound like a rabid chancer. And _what_ are you doing with that hand?”
*JG*        “ ‘At’s an official metter fur the committee, and thur’s nothin’ ye can dae aboot id.”
*HMQ*   “We shall see about that. Guards, take him away, lock him in the Tower and let him ponder on his arrogant behaviour!”
_Gunn is dragged away screeching_
*JG*        “Andrew, Andrew, write a letter, use yin of them suedonyms yer so keen on! Blame the wife if ye hev til!”
*HMQ*   “Right, now let’s get this blasted Fund sorted out. Phillip – Chairman. Charles – You’re Secretary. Camilla can make the tea, and I shall be the PR guru.”

_To be continued... perhaps_

----------


## superted

> light relief



That made me chuckle :-)

----------


## sandyr1

Is it necessary to make light of what I feel is quite a serious issue?
I have been following this for some time, and altho' I am not a Wicker, and only come back on occasion, isn't there some concern about this 'unconfirmed' monies....
Levity just seems to denigrate the situation. If it was a 'few Bob' but .......???

I guess no reply, so maybe I am the only one who thinks this is quite a serious issue!  I also bought some tickets, and think that the money 'we' donated should be used for what it was projected to be used for. Gawd..it is not as if Caithness doesn't need it. Of all the places, think of the good that it would do! Obviously just my thoughts......................

----------


## Tubthumper

Sandy sorry I couldn't respond earlier, been away. Making light of the situation is all we can really do until either WADF open up to new members or the OSCR make a directive (which they surely will this time). As far as 'unconfirmed monies' is concerned, the official submission showed over £132 000 has been raised over the past ten years.

That's a fair whack although it's not enough to really do very much with, in the sense of 'stadium-building', although I'm sure it would be very welcome helping sports clubs etc. improve what they do. Rather than just lying in a bank.

I wonder how much could have been raised in ten years if there had been a decent committee running the show. After all, no-one trusts the people who have had it stitched up since it began, and recent events on here show precisely why!

----------


## gollach

> After all, no-one trusts the people who have had it stitched up since it began


I thought they were too busy making sock puppets to do any other stitching?  :Wink:

----------


## Tubthumper

> I thought they were too busy making sock puppets to do any other stitching


Good one Gollach, by the way you have the honour of making the 700th post on this thread. We're rapidly heading towards 60 000 views as well, not bad for 'mischief-makers'!

The WADF have gone a bit quiet though haven't they?

----------


## Bobinovich

Think you need to check your numbers Tubs - yours was the 700th post lol!

----------


## sandyr1

> Sandy sorry I couldn't respond earlier, been away. Making light of the situation is all we can really do until either WADF open up to new members or the OSCR make a directive (which they surely will this time). As far as 'unconfirmed monies' is concerned, the official submission showed over £132 000 has been raised over the past ten years.
> 
> That's a fair whack although it's not enough to really do very much with, in the sense of 'stadium-building', although I'm sure it would be very welcome helping sports clubs etc. improve what they do. Rather than just lying in a bank.
> 
> I wonder how much could have been raised in ten years if there had been a decent committee running the show. After all, no-one trusts the people who have had it stitched up since it began, and recent events on here show precisely why!


Hi,
  Point taken and thankx!  It just seems.....assinine.....that these funds, which could have assisted someone...something, are lying in limbo.....
  Has there been an actual check of the Bank Records....
  Has anyone gone to the actual Bank..... How up to date are the Bank Records........Could there be more or less......

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> I thought they were too busy making sock puppets to do any other stitching?


That comment earned you some good rep

Soooo funny but unfortunately soooooo true  :Grin:

----------


## chordie

I'm playing catch up here......this is devilish, especially when you consider that Mr Carter and his fragrant wife are born again christians and members of the baptist church.  what a very christian thing to do - to lie and deceive.  hypocrites!






> Well done. Caught.
> 
> Lies, deception, and more lies.
> 
> Perhaps the Civil Nuclear Constabulary would be interested to hear that non-security cleared members of the public have access to a restricted network on site? Or maybe making deliberately deceptive, non business related postings on an internet forum would violate the employers terms and conditions of internet access in the workplace?
> 
> Threats and accusations of laws/rules being broken work both ways Mr Carter!

----------


## Tubthumper

Forgive my ignorance, but what happens to churchgoers that get caught telling fibs?

From Mr 'Pinnochio' Carter's post of 13th August:

32) Since  its formation, W.A.D.F. has received applications for funding from  local groups and organisations, both large, and small. Unfortunately,  our constitution and stated objectives do not allow us to support other,  often deserving, causes which fall outwith that sphere of activity.

I can't actually see anything in their constitution that prevents making donations to local groups and organisations. And if they're able to consider putting the dosh into the High School project, what was to stop them helping a kids team with a First Aid kit?

If anyone would like information on the WADF constitution and financial statement, give me a PM.

----------


## Tubthumper

11) W.A.D.F.  has brought the ongoing online message board saga to the attention of  O.S.C.R. _[And I bet they're enjoying it as much as the people of Caithness are!]_ Particular reference was made to the postings which claimed  that a request was sent to us for copies of documents on the 5th of July  2010 to which there has been no reply. This was as assurance against  the possibility of a complaint being made to them. The regulator has  been notified of these claims and the fact that this request has never  actually been received by W.A.D.F.

Now, can we actually believe this? Also remember that some angry local bloke phoned my work leaving a message specifically for 'Tubthumper' after I'd sent this letter but before I sent the next (recorded delivery) one; could that point to _yet another_ wee fib?

----------


## Moira

> Forgive my ignorance, but what happens to churchgoers that get caught telling fibs?
> <snip>
> 
> If anyone would like information on the WADF constitution and financial statement, give me a PM.


I would imagine churchgoers and non-churchgoers would be treated the same when caught telling lies.  Whether this would  be in  the eye of the law or the eyes of the community is immaterial, isn't it?

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> 11) W.A.D.F.  has brought the ongoing online message board saga to the attention of  O.S.C.R. _[And I bet they're enjoying it as much as the people of Caithness are!]_ Particular reference was made to the postings which claimed  that a request was sent to us for copies of documents on the 5th of July  2010 to which there has been no reply. This was as assurance against  the possibility of a complaint being made to them. The regulator has  been notified of these claims and the fact that this request has never  actually been received by W.A.D.F.
> 
> Now, can we actually believe this? Also remember that some angry local bloke phoned my work leaving a message specifically for 'Tubthumper' after I'd sent this letter but before I sent the next (recorded delivery) one; could that point to _yet another_ wee fib?


l

Now let me think hard on this one .............erm another wee fib....highly likely. :Wink: 
As for the phonecall to your work I heard about that one from friends of mine who also work at Dounreay. 
I wonder how said person knew where in Dounreay  you worked its a very very big place I would think hard to track down wee Tubs in there. 
Let me think where was it a WADF member was making posts on the org from again ?? 

Yes OSCR must by now be finding this whole sorry story very interesting reading as do many other people.

----------


## Tubthumper

> Yes OSCR must by now be finding this whole sorry story very interesting reading as do many other people.


 A couple of my mates down south reckon that following this thread is better than Sky TV by miles! While it may be compulsive viewing, I wonder what kind of impression people get of Caithness?

I think perhaps a letter to the WADF, to find out what they're doing about their committee vacancies (because of course Mr Carter will have resigned, won't he?) is required. I'll send it and give them 7 days to reply before I put it on the org, would that be OK do you think?

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> A
> I think perhaps a letter to the WADF, to find out what they're doing about their committee vacancies (because of course Mr Carter will have resigned, won't he?) is required. I'll send it and give them 7 days to reply before I put it on the org, would that be OK do you think?



Remember to put it recorded delivery in case it goes ...........ahem...missing again    :Wink:

----------


## DeHaviLand

> A couple of my mates down south reckon that following this thread is better than Sky TV by miles! While it may be compulsive viewing, I wonder what kind of impression people get of Caithness?
> 
> I think perhaps a letter to the WADF, to find out what they're doing about their committee vacancies (because of course Mr Carter will have resigned, won't he?) is required. I'll send it and give them 7 days to reply before I put it on the org, would that be OK do you think?


So, if he's resigned, who you going to send the letter to? Ridiculous, I know, because dishonourable men dont resign easily.

----------


## Alien Adrenaline Reflex

its like a soap opera this thread.

I've no been on for a while and I think i remember the start if this but omg what twists and turns its taken since then.

things seems to start out as a bit of "oh we'rte not sure but this looks dodgy" and has goen through "omg this looks a bit bad" to "omg these dudes are on the make nd are willing to lie about it in public"

I dont post very often and probaly read much less but this thread has me gripped like a really good novel.  Whats is going to happen next?

Im betting on arrests  :Smile:

----------


## Tubthumper

> Tubs, from memory and lets not forget this saga has been running for  years now the tickets were originally sold in Wick Academy's name but  even then ordinary club members such as myself were kept completely in  the dark as to what was happening.  There was then a transfer of funds  from the club to WADF again without the agreement of the ordinary  members. I don't know the amounts involved and whilst this is only my  own view I think it is fair to say that the football club has moved on  with a new committee and whilst WAFC would probably have a valid claim  to a % of the funds they would just be happy to see a new committee take  over WADF who could put our money to good use for the community.


Thought I'd bring this across from the 'WADF options' poll which closes tonight. This interesting post, revealing what actually happened when our chums went about their charitable business, is further evidence of the existing committee's arrogance and shows an astonishing contempt for their own community. Plus they have a very interesting approach to the truth, especially when their own statements are compared to what's gone on in the real world.
Over 50% of the 75 who voted would like to see a new committee. Will the existing WADF committee please take note and make the necessary arrangements? Thank-you.

----------


## Tubthumper

A new Act was recently added to the Scottish statute books.  www.macroberts.com/content/content_1192.html gives more info. But here's a particularly interesting bit...*

PUBLIC SERVICES REFORM (SCOTLAND) ACT 2010 - THE IMPACT ON CHARITIES*
*
Disqualification Orders* 
 The new legislation empowers the Court of Session to rule that a trustee be removed from being involved in the management or control of the         charity. This power can be used not only to remove existing trustees but also to prevent persons previously involved in the management or control   of charities from being trustees in the future. Arguably, this will provide more "teeth" in connection with OSCR investigations and help to    protect charities against mismanagement.

----------


## Corrie 3

I still say that its time to call in the Police and let them investigate the goings on!

C3... ::

----------


## pat

What you obviously have not understood is before you go to the poluce for them to investigate you must have a case.  This committee can hold any monies for as long as they want as far as the police are concerned , unless you can PROVE that there have been fraudulent or missappropriation of funds.  
That is why it has to be OSCR who lay down the rules as to how a CHARITY is run and how the committee operate - if a committee does not adhere to the rules it is OSCR who investigate first then bring in the other authorities.
If a committee or any member have been claiming excessive expenses or paying themselves salaries but not declaring any of those to the tax then in comes the Inland Revenue to investigate and prosecute.  The folk would then be investigated totally as to other benefits they may have been claiming i.e. housing/credits etc - once they start finding a hole it opens up a whole other set of processes to catch anyone for all the other things they may have been up to.  Nothing is sacrosanct - bank details for all the family to ensure no transfers of money improperly etc, each money transaction triple checked and how the family money has been spent for many years and frequently not just immediate family but extended family too..  
Please allow OSCR to fully complete their investigation and you may be surprised at the can of worms they may have opened by not being open and crystal clear in their dealings.

----------


## Corrie 3

Yep, sorry Pat, just getting very impatient and angry at the same time...not a good combination I must admit. If there is any wrongdoing (and I am sure there must be) then I want to see it to a conclusion sooner than later. I get very angry at the wasted opportunity, it was a good idea to start with and could be carrying on to this day if the trust had not gone. To late now of course, it will never be resurrected and what is to be done with the money collected?
I cant believe that some humans can operate in this way, what are they trying to achieve this late in the day?...Its too late WADF, give up now, hand over the reigns to someone that the people trust and the money can start to increase once again instead of sitting idle doing no one any good!!
C3....

----------


## pat

Corrie 3
Folk have offered to become members of this committee and been refused.   I think most folk will be more willing now to wait until OSCR investigation is complete and there is more chance of a new committee, this committee will be open and above board - with no hidden agendas.
Everyone has waited this long - think how long this committee have been hoarding the money, not telling folk where and what if anything the money is being spent, a few more weeks and thee will be answers and probably lots more questions.

----------


## Granny

Better reading than a novel hope the money can be accounted for as I and many family members have donated to this so called fund....

----------


## DeHaviLand

I have no doubt the money can be accounted for Granny. The question is whether the charity is being run as it should be, while aiming to fulfil the very worthwhile reasons it was set up for.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

That's the biggest problem. The charity isn't being run ........its just limping along stagnant. Nothings happening no activities, no forward planning or if there is no-one  but the committee are aware of it and certainly nowhere nearer to this amazing sports complex, the reasons the charity was set up for. Time for change however the committee are in no mood for change, help or anything else. They have a strangle hold on this fund and are in no mood to let anyone else help out.  WHY ? 

This sheer stubbornness is doing no good for this charity, indeed the stranglehold they have on it is choking it and like all things which have the life sucked out of it, it will die. Who's the winners then ?

----------


## Tubthumper

> That's the biggest problem. The charity isn't being run ........its just limping along stagnant. Nothings happening no activities, no forward planning or if there is no-one  but the committee are aware of it and certainly nowhere nearer to this amazing sports complex, the reasons the charity was set up for.


 They really are poor aren't they. I had a letter from someone VERY influential today, just letting me know that they're still interested and are eagerly awaiting the OSCR's findings. :Smile:

----------


## gollach

Good to hear that people are still paying attention to this.  I reckon the whole county must be waiting for the OSCR's findings!

----------


## Tubthumper

You're right Gollach. And the OSCR are aware of that too.

I'm also wondering whether the report of their previous investigation would make good reading. The WADF _claimed_ to have been found squeaky clean with only a few minor recommendations they subsequently complied with. Of course, they knew that we mere members of the community would have to take their word for it, as the OSCR report was not made public. But bearing in mind the WADF's attitude to the real world, I'm just wondering just how true that actually is.

Freedom Of Information Act anybody?

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Freedom Of Information Act anybody?


That would give you some more answers. And within a timely manner.  :Wink:

----------


## Metalattakk

Reading today's JoG Journal back page quotes from Wick Academy manager 'Titch' Hughes, concerning the lack of suitable indoor training facilities available during mid-winter weather shut-downs, brought my thoughts straight to this thread.

Just think what a kick-start £130,000 would make towards funding such a project. It's downright criminal that this money is wasting away doing nobody any good whatsoever.

Crack on, OSCR. And don't spare the horses.

----------


## sam09

Is this charity registered with the Scottish Charities Commision? If so they must publish accounts yearly.Does any-one know their Charity Number?

----------


## Metalattakk

http://www.oscr.org.uk/CharityIndexD...px?id=SC032787

----------


## pat

or that is what it says on my correspondence with OSCR
Come on now do not put OSCR site down with all of you logging in to search the files.

Pat


Just been on and it only gives what the income was not "the books" and the history of spending.

----------


## Tubthumper

> Is this charity registered with the Scottish Charities Commision? If so they must publish accounts yearly.Does any-one know their Charity Number?


 They're obliged to send out a copy of their constitution and financial statement to any member of the public that wishes them. As a deterrent to 'mischief-makers' WADF charge £10 for these, surprising when the OSCR say the charge should not exceed the cost of production (excluding professional review). I wouldn't have thought that 10 sheets of A4 and photocopier toner/ printer ink would come to £10 but there you go. Oh and they must supply it in whatever format is requested (within reason) so you could request it in .pdf format onto a disk or flash drive, or by e-mail. I'd like to see how much they charge for that.

But to save them any hassle, I can email you a copy of their accounts. PM me. :Smile:

----------


## Tubthumper

> Reading today's JoG Journal back page quotes from Wick Academy manager 'Titch' Hughes, concerning the lack of suitable indoor training facilities available during mid-winter weather shut-downs, brought my thoughts straight to this thread. Just think what a kick-start £130,000 would make towards funding such a project. It's downright criminal that this money is wasting away doing nobody any good whatsoever.


 We know that a facility is needed and that the community is behind the idea.
We have a Fund with some money, but it isn't growing, isn't being used. The people running it are failing in every respect. So why don't they allow others to join and help the Fund forward?

You know, £130 000 is a fair dunt of cash but when you consider how much can be raised in ten years by a proper charity with a worthy cause, you have to ask why there's not a lot more...

----------


## Tubthumper

OK, I'm looking to make contact with people who sold the A-T tickets on behalf of WADF in the past. What I'd like to know is:

 Who supplied you with the tickets How many were you typically given each week Who collected the cash, what receipt were you given
No reflection on those who sold the tickets, you all did a great job.
_
[Edit - I've cleared out my inbox yet again tonight, sorry to those who couldn't PM me, please try again!]_

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> [Edit - I've cleared out my inbox yet again tonight, sorry to those who couldn't PM me, please try again!][/I]


tried again and still cant get a message to your inbox..................... sheeesh your a popular guy cant think why .

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## Tubthumper

Sorry Alice, I've emptied it again, please try now.

The WADF state that they received £8423 from ticket sales in the year to 31st May 2009. At £1 a ticket I work that out as only 162 tickets sold per week in 2008/9.

2007/8 was slightly better, showing £10276 from weekly ticket sales, that's around 198 tickets a week sold. But less than 200 tickets a week isn't a lot, and must have given pretty good odds for winning one of the prizes. And an awful lot of running around for whoever personally collected the cash from the sellers. And I'm a bit confused as to why there has never been any attempt to  organise other fundraising events or draws for a new sports complex.

I've run raffles at £1 a ticket where we've sold 400 or more in a single night. Maybe I should be the fundraising director of the reconstituted WADF?

----------


## Tubthumper

I've done a rough extrapolation of how many £1 tickets I would have had to sell each week since 2000 to raise money for a sports complex for the county. It's quite surprising, did you know that by selling *288* tickets per week in 2000, rising to *404* between 2001 and 2004, then peaking at *443* per week in 2005 before dropping off to *162* per week in 2009 I would have raised (using the UK headline interest rates) a rough figure of *£132 000*.

Amazing how few tickets you have to sell to make it mount up, eh? If I'd kept 20 people each selling 20 tickets per week I could have made £400 per week, £20 800 gross per year. Then I'd have to take into account my prizes, expenses etc. But even working on a rough outlay/ income ratio of 0.5, surely that would soon equate to an indoor training facility?

Of course, I'm no mathematician or statistician, I've only used rough ratios based on information supplied by an equivalent local charity, available in the public domain. So my figures can't be relied on in any way. But it was an interesting exercise right enough. 

I must go and manipulate those figures some more. Any maths or financial geniuses out there, give us a PM will you (I've emptied the box - again!)  ::

----------


## DeHaviLand

Tubs, you've got me thinking now, and thats never a good idea! Has anyone on here ever won one of the main prizes, and if you did, how much did you win? Maybe WADF can provide a breakdown of prizes won? Breath holding commencing now....................................

----------


## Tubthumper

DH, I'm sure they can. Someone earlier in this thread (Wario?) said they'd reported strange dealings in WADF prizes to OSCR, but their investigation apparently showed nothing untoward. 

Prizes have indeed been won. For example, in 2008-9, the year the WADF stopped selling their tickets to a dwindling circle of faithful supporters, £610 was paid out in weekly prizes, and jackpot payouts amounted to £11 600, far more than the previous year where only £4400 was paid out. And perhaps those larger jackpot payouts, which resulted in a net loss of £1598 for the year, were key in sounding the death knell on the WADF's fundraising efforts, of which the A-T Ticket was the only example.

By the way, £211 was spent on Ticket printing in that final year. 8423 tickets for £211. That's a unit cost of 2.5p per ticket. And it was 3.1p per ticket the year before. Wonder why the unit price went down for fewer tickets, usually it's the other way round?

----------


## Tubthumper

I'm still keen on raising funds for a sports complex in the County. The message I'm receiving is that more than 20 offshore guys used to sell about 20 tickets each per week for WADF, back in the good old days.

I wonder if they'd do it for me now.  :Grin:  Any offers guys?

----------


## Tubthumper

I notice that there was a case of charity fraud heard in the Sheriff Court the other day. People selling tickets without banking all the money. But how can we ensure that the good-cause money we donate (or money for the tickets we buy) actually makes it as far as the charity account. I mean, what's to stop a collector or middleman retaining a portion of the income for their trouble? If we don't win a prize, how do we know that our ticket even made it to the draw? 

In this case the perps set out with good intentions but suffered a 'glitch' in their circumstances, these things happen I suppose. But I note that after they got captured they pled guilty and the cash that was whipped was repaid to the charity concerned. The community can be happy that trust is restored.

----------


## Tubthumper

{From WADF Post #2 page 15}

18) The  gross income of W.A.D.F. up to our accounting date of the 31st of May  2009 was £260,886.34. This sum was raised almost entirely by the sale of  our A-T Lucky Letters lottery tickets and the investment account bank  interest that was earned from that.

Let's call it £250 000 taken in from tickets, the remaining £10 886 we'll assume pessimistically was interest.
250 000 divided by 9 years = 27778 tickets per year. Divide by 52 weeks, that gives 534 tickets sold per week, averaged across the whole 9 years. We know sales dropped off in the last few years so let's call it 600 tickets per week sold in the good years. 20 sellers shifting 30 tickets each per week would make that.
We had heard stories about what a tremendous effort was made, and how the money was just pouring in. But now we look, it seems like a pretty average effort. I've heard of other footie fundraisers in the area maintaining £500 per week without all the hoo-hah.

19) W.A.D.F.  has probably sold more A-T Lucky Letters lottery tickets beyond our  locality than within it. Many of our regular ticket purchasers worked  offshore and knew little or nothing about Wick but were still happy to  buy tickets and have a flutter whilst also supporting our aims.

Yes, we've heard about the great offshore network, and how many people contributed willingly and regularly. As for ticket sales being more popular with people who knew little or nothing of Wick: That may well be true, but why were locals unwilling to buy?

23) The  net income of W.A.D.F. i.e. the amount of cash in our bank accounts was  £132,459.96 as of the 31st of May 2009. This sum easily exceeds that  which was originally required as pre-funding capital for the originally  planned project.

So why has nothing at all happened? ::

----------


## Tubthumper

Me and a mate who is wise in the ways of associations, clubs and charity stuff went through the WADF Constitution with a fine toothcomb and a bottle of Old Pultney the other night, and couldn't see anything that prevents money being donated from the Fund to a suitable organisation, providing it is for activities in line with their stated objective, viz: 

_"The objects of the Fund shall be to promote for the benefit of the inhabitants of Wick and its environs without distinction of sex, sexuality, political, religious or other opinions by associating with the local statutory authorities, voluntary organisations and inhabitants in a common effort to advance education and to provide facilities, or assist in the provision of facilities , in the interest of social welfare for recreation and other leisure - time occupation so that their conditions of life may be improved."_

We can see no reason why money could not be offered to WAFC to assist in building or improving a facility. No reason why the WADF couldn't have shelled out to support the Pultneytown multi-purpose facility. No reason why the only consideration has to be the Wick High School project. No reason why a First-Aid kit couldn't have been bought for the bairn's team that asked. _(In the last case I would have been so embarrassed to refuse, I would have paid for one out my own pocket!_)

No reason other than the pig-headed arrogance of the committee. (At least on the part of the honorary officer who always tells the others what to do!)

----------


## chordie

> (At least on the part of the honorary officer who always tells the others what to do!)


I almost never noticed this Honourable gentlemen the other day as he was driven past in his shiny new car at Tesco.  I wonder if he won it in a raffle ? :-)

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...724#post814724

Is anyone thinking what I am thinking  when they read this thread ??????

----------


## Phill

> http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...724#post814724
> 
> Is anyone thinking what I am thinking  when they read this thread ??????


I'm thinking a development fund......for a sporting facility...... has nobody thought of this before?

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> I'm thinking a development fund......for a sporting facility...... has nobody thought of this before?


Thats such a good idea now is there one of these in this area or should we look into setting one up to promote sports in Caithness    :Wink:

----------


## Tubthumper

That's a good idea. We can call it Want A Decent Facility (WADF). The existing WADF might get shirty, but bearing in mind they've been using Wick Academy's name for near ten years, I don't think they're in a position to criticise. And they tell fibs as well.

So shall we set out to be a proper charity? That way we can go on a real ego trip, make grandiose 'official' pronouncements, kick Honorary Members out if they don't agree with us. Travel thousands of miles (achieving nothing) but still demand respect. 

Or should we just settle for doing our bit for the community, quietly and conscientiously?

----------


## Tubthumper

> Now everybody...could I suggest a Xmas white flag, (think France 1914!... You never know what New Year resolutions some people might make if there cut a bit of slack over the holidays while they've had time to reflect over a mulled wine and a mince pie! Seasons greetings and good will to all.


 Hey Droopy, what about the New Year resolutions? That's a month into 2011 and they've not said a word.

Also, I suspect that Mr Carter hasn't resigned yet. As someone said, dishonourable men don't give up easy, how can we persuade the OSCR that we don't want a fibber running a charity.

----------


## gollach

> We can call it Want A Decent Facility (WADF).


It's been said already that other organisations in the area could have done with some financial assistance, so how about We Are Donating Funds (WADF)?

----------


## pat

Liked that one Gollach 
Received an email from OSCR this morning and thought YES
but NO it was their quarterly report on what is happening at OSCR.   
They have a new chairperson the Reverend Dr Graham Forbes CBE, he may get the mechanism working quicker so we should expect the answers to our questions shortly.

----------


## John Little

The Groat might help....

http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/...ing_drive.html

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> The Groat might help....
> 
> http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/...ing_drive.html


Sorry are you wanting us to nominate WADF the current organisation that are having a little trouble raising more funds due to 'troublemakers'   ::   ::

----------


## John Little

It was this bit that caught my attention;

"Is there something your group needs to buy or a project you hope to complete?"

Good offer I thought...

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> It was this bit that caught my attention;
> 
> "Is there something your group needs to buy or a project you hope to complete?"
> 
> Good offer I thought...


You could be on to something there.

----------


## Tubthumper

Selling raffles for one of my good causes this week, I noticed that every ticket has a unique number, which I believe is standard practice, required for the Council license to run a small lottery. But I could be wrong.

However, the WADF's tickets did not seem to have numbers at all, which must have made it hard to work out how many tickets they sold each week and who the winners were. As Mr 'Honest Guv' Carter & Co. don't seem to be speaking to me any more, I wonder if anyone else knows why they did that?

----------


## Tubthumper

The WADF's AGM is usually held in May. I hope the OSCR's investigation concludes soon so we can all get our memberships sorted out and get along to vote for committee members of this charity. Remember that membership  is supposed to be 'open to any individual aged 18 or over who actively supports the aims and objects of the Fund and to any group or body which actively supports the aims and objects of the Fund'.

However, looking at the Objects of the Fund I wonder how the current committee can say they themselves 'actively support' the very aims and objects the Fund was set up to pursue: _'to promote for the benefit of the inhabitants of Wick and its environs without distinction of sex, sexuality, political , religious or other opinions by associating with the local statutory authorities, voluntary organisations and inhabitants in a common effort to advance education and to provide facilities, or assist in the provision of facilities , in the interest of social welfare for recreation and other leisure - time occupation so that their conditions of life may be improved'.
_
I have 'other opinions', yet they have barred me from joining.They, through their intransigence and secrecy, have actively prevented the money we donated from being used to advance education, provide facilities etcBy refusing to allow free membership and committee elections, they are preventing progress towards the aims & objectsAs no-one trusts the the current chairman and secretary (because they harass people and lie) the Fund cannot progress, yet they will not step asideThey haven't had any meaningful interaction with authorities, voluntary organisations or inhabitants
I think they're 'actively preventing' progress! What will it take to wrest our money away from these people?

Also, I hope that the issue hasn't been forgotten because of protest movements in the Middle East, where they're trying to overcome secrecy and self-interest. Affairs in our own East are in need of attention as well!

----------


## Tubthumper

I'm becoming ever more fascinated by Mr Carter's claims (see pages 14 & 15). Particularly the part about how WADF saved a club from extinction as they'd got themselves into a bit of a pickle. As I've pointed out before, any pickle the club was in must have been because of Gunn and Carter, as they were the power behind the secretive running of a club which appeared well supported, with a strong fan base and good potential for fundraising. But was failing in football and cash terms.

Gunn & Carter were repeatedly re-elected as chairman and secretary in fair and open elections despite no members in the club admitting to wanting them in charge. Note that the 'free and open' elections included proxy votes -some of them apparently cast on behalf of people who had never joined Wick Academy and had no idea their names were being used! 

And once Gunn & Carter were finally hoofed out, the club did indeed find that it was in dire financial straits, with only something like £7 in the bank! So, one has to ask, how could the Chair & Secretary of WADF manage to get away with transferring what must have been a substantial amount of the club's money away from the club?

But just to finish off, here's a little quiz:
20 offshore guys sell 100 tickets per week at £1 each (they're offered a 20% cut, but choose not to take it), 30 onshore people sell 50 tickets a week each at £1 a go, and a number of shops and clubs in Wick sell 200 tickets per week between them.
a) How much money comes in per week?
b) How much comes in per year?
c) How much interest would come in at 4% pa?
d) How many new cars could be bought with the total income?
e) What capacity stadium could be bought with 50% of the income from 10 years?

Please post your answers here, don't be afraid. The hysterical antics of our chums in the WADF are slowly becoming clearer. 

My, they must have had a right old laugh at our expense!

----------


## gleeber

Gosh Tubthumper your making it sound like a massive fraud. Surely never?

----------


## Tubthumper

Fraud? Perish the thought Gleeber!  :: 

I'm just pondering on 10 remarkable years of a sporting group raising funds on our behalf! And thinking of who else might like to join us in our idle meanderings...

----------


## Phill

> 20 x 100 + (30 x 50) + 200 =
> 
> Please post your answers here, don't be afraid.


I've ran out of fingers n' toes!

----------


## sam09

Every raffle ticket must have a unique number to prevent fraud,if these raffle tickets do not have a number I would report to police as a fraudulent scheme and leave it for them to investigate.

----------


## Tubthumper

For example: The WADFs 2004/05 return showed a gross income of £38 382. Perhaps £5045 is interest on ~£101 000 in the bank (at 5% - based on 5 years of similar activity and interest), meaning that ticket sales would account for £33 337 of income. That equates to 641 tickets sold per week on average, a huge number. A large network of 40 sellers and outlets would have to shift a massive 16 tickets each per week to sustain that level of income. And bear in mind that (according to Mr 'The Truth Is Out There' Carter) most of the ticket sales were made offshore, where money was tight and the people had so many other  diversions to spend their readies on. 

It must have been very hard for the WADF members to sustain that level of income for the fund while earning a living at the same time. Despite their failings, well done to them I say!

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> I've ran out of fingers n' toes!







To help you out Phill  :Grin:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

Tubs you must be a popular guy can you empty out your inbox got some info to send you  :Grin:   :Wink:

----------


## Tubthumper

Cleared oot Alice, sorry about that!

----------


## pat

OSCR are taking a very very long time with the enquiry into the running of charity NoSCO32787  - most unusual for them, they must have a lot to question and to re-investigate.
May get in touch with OSCR to ask when answers will be available to the questions I have asked.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

Everything's gone very quiet ...............No OSCR report no WADF statements and no more Archer  :Wink:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

And Thanks Tubs maybe you should request a bigger in box since you are so popular  :Grin:

----------


## katarina

oh my goodness - has nothing happened yet?  How long have we been try9ing to get answers?

----------


## Tubthumper

Nothing's happened yet Katrina; no word on memberships, no sign of a footie stadium, nothing about the High School, no clarification on how many tickets were sold or prizes distributed to raise the £132 000. Just waiting, waiting, waiting.

Mr Gunn & Mr Carter have gone quiet though haven't they? And Mrs Carter too, although she maybe took umbrage at himself using her caithness.org login name from his work.

----------


## catran

Surely the committee is made up of more than Mr Gunn, Mr Carter and Mrs Carter - where are the other members hiding?

----------


## pat

If you read the rest of this extremely long long saga you will find all members listed - they are all keeping their heads down and mouths zipped - part of the secret society or is it fear of what one may utter and say unwittingly and drop them all in the mire?

----------


## fender

> Surely the committee is made up of more than Mr Gunn, Mr Carter and Mrs Carter - where are the other members hiding?


Van Diemans Land!!

----------


## pat

Or could have gone to the Grand Cayman to the area which does not have coral, has lava instead, goes by the name of  Hell - yes it does exist, but they may be thinking they may be there soon enough.

----------


## Tubthumper

Over 70 000 views! Golly, who would have thought away back in July 2010, when the WADF committee threatened legal action and this thread kicked off, that we'd have come this far?!

Amazing. Just wish Mr Gunn and co. would listen to their community, open up and admit new members. As it is I can't see how they pass any kind of charity test.  ::

----------


## catran

Can anyone start a charity?    Why does the law not investigate or is it all above board ?

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

This thread got me thinking about WADF

http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...-Not-a-Charity

----------


## golach

> This thread got me thinking about WADF
> 
> http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...-Not-a-Charity


Me too Alice

----------


## pat

Just received OSCR Reporter but no update on WADF.  
As I am going to Edinburgh at the end of next week then heading up to Dundee and Aberdeen will take the opportunity to pop into OSCRs office in Dundee to see if they can give me a verbal update on what is happening or even a paper update which would be much better.  
Will phone on Monday to make an appointment for when I am in Dundee - that way they cannot say I do not have an appointment.
Wonder what difference a visit will make.

----------


## Tubthumper

> Can anyone start a charity?


 It seems they can! But how clever is the system. 

Let's say you're involved in a Youth Club which relies on the community to survive. Everybody does their bit and the club is well supported. But then suddenly your chairman, secretary and a few of their mates set up a Youth Club Development Fund. They say it's to buy a new clubhouse, but refuse to tell anybody in the club (ordinary members, kids etc) what the Fund is about and how much is in it. Using the club's name and address they manage to set it up as a charity, but no-one except their pals is allowed to join. That's fine except the club isn't seeing anything from the Fund.

It gradually soaks up all the income in the area, and the club starts to suffer. The 'Development Fund' grudgingly give some money to the club to save it from oblivion, but whenever anyone asks what's going on they get sworn at. 

No-one can figure out how there is a pot of money that people have donated to the club, which the club can't access. Eventually suspicion abounds and  its impossible to raise funds for the club. At the committee elections the chairman tries to use mysterious postal votes to save his position but still gets booted out - But he amazingly manages to take control of the Development Fund with him and his cronies!

With only £7 in the bank, the club is stuck. But the community rallies round and the  starts getting it back on its feet. But questions remain - 

What's happening to the money, and how did they manage to remain a charity?How did the ex-chairman & his mates manage to take the club's money away from it?How were they allowed to continue using the club's name, and why did they want to do that?Why were they not keen to let anyone else get involved?
In this hypothetical situation, there would come a time for people to decide whether they want questions answered or whether they couldn't be bothered. The difficulty for the authorities is always proving that wrongdoing has taken place. That would require looking at things like:

How many tickets were printed vs how many sold?What records were kept and how accurate were they?Can people with no obvious source of income prove how they have purchased assets?
It remains to be seen whether our local 'real-life' Development Fund will survive a second OSCR investigation, but if it does, there may be further action that can be taken - if anyone thinks it's worthwhile!

But let's just remind ourselves that
a) Mr Carter lied about his wife's org username
b) Mr Gunn has been done for harassing a person, and the basis of the harassment was the WADF
c) Mr Gunn seems to have lied to the press when he claimed the WADF had been in touch with the Council regarding progress - It seems that he hadn't spoken to anyone in an official Council capacity.

What are they all up to these days?  ::

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

Jeeez pat I thought you were going to give us a larf there for a moment given the date 1st April. This whole thing has become quite the joke tho hasnt it!

----------


## pat

If I manage to get an appointment to discuss this matter I will advise you of what is happening with OSCR, after my appointment.
Luckily I am staying in Dundee for a couple of nights as could not get booked into where I wanted in Aberdeen, been booked for a few months now so may as well use some of my time trying to clear up WADF.
OSCR will be my main appointment, then I have a few folk I must see as they no longer come over to visit the island and must visit a young lad about getting a new mobile contract.

----------


## Tubthumper

This thread seems to have had an effect. Our chums at WADF have submitted their annual Statement of Accounts to the OSCR well ahead of schedule, unlike last year where they forgot to send them and had to be reminded.

Their income for the year was £1522.00. I suppose the 'Honorary Officers' or 'charity trustees' must have had a meeting to approve them; I wonder whether they voted Mr Carter out for being a fibber and making the WADF a laughing stock? Also I wonder if 'Lifetime Executive Director of All Things' Mr Gunn managed to survive without referring to postal votes this time? Was the subject of new memberships discussed at all? 

I just can't wait to see the statement...

----------


## Moira

Any idea of where the income came from or do we have to wait for the full statement?

----------


## Tubthumper

I'd imagine it would be pretty much all interest on the £132 000 they have stashed away, doing nothing much. 

Plus £10 from me of course, for the copies of their constitution and accounts. Which they're allowed to charge for (but only as much as it costs to produce).

But no membership fees from new members, because they're afraid to let anyone else join.

----------


## Moira

Yes, of course, silly me.

I'd not thought about the interest or the contribution from you Tubthumper.  My own  bank balance/investments produce so little interest, I've lost interest.

Thanks for the prompt reply and keep plugging away.  :Grin:

----------


## Tubthumper

Latest News!

"OSCR did not produce or publish a report into the Wick Academy Development Fund (SC032787) in March 2007."

The John O'Groat Journal announced on 9th March 2007 that OSCR's investigation, started in 2004, was concluded. I'm surprised that the OSCR's conclusion was reached without some form of 'report'. Of course, it may be that the terms 'report' and 'produced or published in March 2007' were too specific. Perhaps a refinement of the wording is needed. Ho Hum.

----------


## pat

Hi Tubthumper
That seems extremely unusual for OSCR to investigate but not to produce or publish a report into an investigation - all a bit extremely wiffy.
Which government set up does not produce enough paper to cover itself from any and all claims of any kind.
Agree with you the wording does need clarified completely.

----------


## theone

In the news today that a local charity has been cleared of misconduct allegations.

I can't help but wonder if an altogether different outcome will come about in the case of WADF.

----------


## Tubthumper

I doubt there will be any finding of financial misconduct, but I'm sure there will be comment on the conduct of the clowns running this charity for the last ten years, who have run their 'open' charity in a way that has generated such anger in the very community they claim to 'work for the benefit of'. 

Why can no-one else get a say in what's going on? How are they able to keep everyone at arms length? Why, when they've been shown to be completely incapable of achieving the charity's aim, and have openly lied and threatened people, are they still able to consider themselves 'charity trustees'?

And Mr Carter (AKA The Archer, Pinnochio, Mrs Carter) if you're still acting on behalf of the WADF I think you should check your mail and make arrangements for what you need to do by law - unless you're intending treating me and everyone else like idiots AGAIN!

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

Its easy to see why no one can get a say in whats going on.....







Dummies and rattles have been well and truly tossed out the pram.

Until they are picked up and placed back in no-one or nothing is going to soothe the  baby (s).  :Wink:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

Tubs looks like you are a popular boy again. Can you empty that message box and attend to it more regularly !!! I will then be able to send mine to you without getting a silly message back  :Grin:

----------


## Tubthumper

Could anyone who was involved in the previous OSCR inquiriy enlighten me regarding how the process is done? I'm concerned that, having received sufficient information to initiate action, they take evidence from only the Charity concerned and don't follow it up by allowing those with concerns to examine the material submitted in order to argue or refute it if necessary. Can anyone tell me if that's the case?

As our chums in the WADF have no qualms about bending the truth on here, I bet they'll be very selective about what they tell the OSCR. And I'm worried that we'll never know what the WADF say to the OSCR or whether it's completely correct.

----------


## pat

An investigation taking this long OSCR must have encountered a good few questions which require answering correctly and appropriately.   
If the committee of WADF are taking as long to answer OSCR as they did anyone else who asked WADF committee questions, not answsering the questions actually asked of WADF committee but giving answers they want people to take without any substantiation and quite a few misleading answers  they will now be discovering OSCR do not take anything at face value - their job is to investigate completely.
Wonder when our questions will be answered - anyone ask the psychic who was up in Thurso recently?

----------


## Tubthumper

Bit of a coincidence you saying that Pat: Yesterday the 8th of June 2011, in response to my letter of 20th April 2011, I received the latest statement of account of the WADF. Over 45 days seems a bit of a long time to send documents which were submitted to OSCR away back in February.

As The Archer pointed out away back in time, the Regulations under which the WADF operate don't specify a time for organisations to respond to a legitimate request for this information. However it seems like our chums are STILL making it as hard as possible for anyone to deal with them! 

By the way, I requested the information electronically and it arrived by e-mail as .jpegs (ie scanned). And I wasn't charged for it either!

----------


## Tubthumper

> I've been away and have just been catching up on here. I checked the *Charities and Trustee Investment (Scotland) Act 2005, Chapter 3, Section 23, "Entitlement to information about charities"* and there is no mention of any time limit for a response...so i'm afraid that it's neither 14 working days or 14 days. Patience may be required by all !!


This was from The Archer on 1st August 2010, turned out to be from Mr Carter - or was it his wife?

----------


## Tubthumper

And this was posted on the 2nd of August... 


> Tubthumper- Woah go easy...I'm just sharing some knowledge i've gleaned from reading the charitable laws - that doesn't mean that i've anything to do with WADF.

----------


## Tubthumper

Who's going to get the 800th post?  ::

----------


## ducati

> Who's going to get the 800th post?


Me So when are we going to find out about er everything?

----------


## Tubthumper

Well done Duke, you win the main prize - a weekend with the WADF, they're paying!

Seriously though, perhaps once the OSCR have finished their inquiries we'll find out more. But I doubt we'll ever know the whole story.

Sad that a  chance to provide a worthwhile facility has been lost because of the silliness and arrogance of those with their paws on the wheel.

----------


## DMFB

Any updates on this most interesting saga? I am so dismayed that not even the massive negative feedback that has been given on this forum has not seemingly made a difference to how this group work.I reckon I will be popping up daisys long before a sports venue ever comes from a single penny of this money.Shame on all involved in this fiasco involving public money!

----------


## pat

Hi DMFB
Have not heard anything but personally have not forgotten about this particular committee and its fundraising past - it may be currently on the very far back boiler as far as many folk are concerned but it is still very much a boiling pot as far as I am concerned.
If OSCR do find something they are not happy about they HAVE to alert the correct authorities - police, inland revenue, etc so they have to ensure all their investigations are thorough and complete.
Everyday when I switch on computer or the post comes along I hope there will be some answers - not a day goes by but I am on the look out for answers to questions I have asked.  
Because there are no new posts on here does not mean it has gone away - just at 'No Answers Available As Yet'.

----------


## webmannie

Noticed this just now on NC website, please be warned, there are some BAD people out there stealing from charities!


A 34-year-old man has been arrested and reported to the Procurator Fiscal in Wick in connection with alleged theft from charities.

http://www.northern.police.uk/News-a...id=PR3494_2011

----------


## DMFB

> Hi DMFB
> Have not heard anything but personally have not forgotten about this particular committee and its fundraising past - it may be currently on the very far back boiler as far as many folk are concerned but it is still very much a boiling pot as far as I am concerned.
> If OSCR do find something they are not happy about they HAVE to alert the correct authorities - police, inland revenue, etc so they have to ensure all their investigations are thorough and complete.
> Everyday when I switch on computer or the post comes along I hope there will be some answers - not a day goes by but I am on the look out for answers to questions I have asked.  
> Because there are no new posts on here does not mean it has gone away - just at 'No Answers Available As Yet'.


Thank you for the update.I did think that it would be a case of things moving along quietly in the background.I hope the end result is indeed something for the benefit of those who have contributed into this fund and not those who seem to have lost sight of why this fund fund was set up in the first place.

----------


## Phill

I recently had a letter back from John Thurso's office. He has been chasing OSCR, but the update is there is no update. They are still carrying out their investigations apparently, and will report back once these are complete.

----------


## Corrie 3

> I recently had a letter back from John Thurso's office. He has been chasing OSCR, but the update is there is no update. They are still carrying out their investigations apparently, and will report back once these are complete.


Thanks for that Phill !

C3.

----------


## pat

Thought I was getting an email answer but no - yet again, this was the information I received!
Should I attend the meeting and ask a few questions?



In this issue










 OSCR Reporter: welcome





 OSCR Annual Open Meeting 2011: apply now





 OSCR publishes Interim Equality Strategy 2011-12





 OSCR Online: get ready for change





 Get your charity ready for change





 OSCR Online: our new services









In other news









New look for OSCR website


Check out the design changes to OSCR's website.





Corporate Plan 2011-14


Read our updated Corporate Plan. 


























Monday 8 August











OSCR Reporter: welcome









Welcome to our new look OSCR Reporter.


It has been a busy few months for us with the registration of the first Scottish Charitable Incorporated Organisations (SCIOs), a new legal form unique to Scottish charities, and the introduction of a new look website.


We have now opened the booking process for our fifth annual conference which will be held on Tuesday 20 September 2011 at the Perth Concert Hall, Perth.  Spaces are limited and we encourage early booking of this popular event. 



In addition, we have launched our latest publications: Interim Equality Strategy 2011-12 and Corporate Plan 2011-14.  Both have been developed through consultation with the sector, and I hope you will take the time to read these important publications.


I hope that you find this latest edition useful.  We greatly value your feedback so if you have any suggestions or comments about OSCR Reporter, or items that you would like to see covered, please email us at communications@oscr.org.uk



Jane Ryder

OSCR Chief Executive





















OSCR Annual Open Meeting 2011: apply now









Our fifth annual open meeting has been confirmed for Tuesday 20 September 2011 at Perth Concert Hall, Perth.  This event will see charity representatives meet the Regulator face to face, hear about the latest developments, and network with sector colleagues.



In addition to presentations on OSCR's work and current priorities, there will be three breakout sessions:
Who's in Charge? - independence and control in charites.
What's a SCIO? - the new legal form and its requirements.
Public Benevolent Collections - the new Regulations and their intended impact.

Places are limited and are expected to be taken up quickly, so early application is recommended.



Find out more and apply for your place here.





















OSCR publishes Interim Equality Strategy 2011-12









Following a positive three month public consultation we have published our Interim Equality Strategy 2011-12.  This strategy outlines how we will fulfil our commitments both under the Charities and Trustee Investment (Scotland) Act 2005 and the Equality Act 2010 to deliver our functions in a manner which:
encourages equal opportunities
aims to eliminate unlawful discrimination prohibited by equality legislation
fosters good relations between people who share a protected characteristic and those who do not.

We will meet our equality duties through three main strands of work: the development of policy, service delivery, and our regulatory functions.  While we will continue to mainstream equality in our work, we will also widen our equality focus to consider more fully the impact of anti-discrimination requirements on the activities of charities.



This is an interim strategy as we are awaiting further guidance on the public sector duties.  Information on how we will take forward our proposals is available from the:
Interim Equality Strategy 2011-12



Regular updates will be provided throughout the year.























OSCR Online: get ready for change









In March this year we announced our appointment of a contractor – Amor – to deliver the technical changes needed for our new online services.



Previously called Integrated Reporting, OSCR Online will make it faster and easier for your charity to report to the Regulator.



Our development work is continuing as planned, and we will begin to test the new system shortly, inviting feedback from charities in September to refine and shape the final design.  We aim to announce a firm launch date later in the year once we have thoroughly tested the system and confirmed that it is ready for use.



We have a summary of the OSCR Online changes and some Frequently Asked Questions on our website. We will update this information as more information becomes available. 



In the meantime, you need to prepare now for OSCR Online.





















Get your charity ready for change









It is important that your charity’s contact details are up to date. If you have provided us with a contact email address, either when registering as a charity, or on your annual return, we will start to use this to communicate with you over the next few months, in preparation for the launch of OSCR Online.  Please make sure that your charity’s contact details, including email address, are up to date.  You should also visit our website on a regular basis to keep up to date with developments.



Where we have no email address, we will continue to contact charities by post.  However, we are keen to use electronic communication wherever possible as this achieves cost and environmental savings – important factors for OSCR as a public body.


In addition, by signing up for electronic communication, you are notified of developments straight away, ensuring that your charity is kept up to date. If you have not yet provided us with an email address for your charity, or if you need to update your principal contact details, you can read how to do so here.





















OSCR Online: our new services









OSCR Online will make it quicker and easier for charities to report to OSCR.  It will also provide more information to the public through the Scottish Charity Register, and improve efficiency for OSCR as Regulator.  You can read a summary of the key changes on our website.



Remember – the launch of OSCR Online is approaching.  Please make sure your contact details are up to date and make sure that your charity is ready.

----------


## DMFB

ah well all things come to those who wait.Answers will eventually come forward to all your questions.

----------


## Tubthumper

I must admit I'm getting a bit frustrated at the inordinately long time it's taking the OSCR to deal with this. With the exception of the 65-page epic our chum Mr Carter submitted on behalf of the WADF so long ago, has anyone heard any word from OSCR or been contacted about the matter?
I couldn't understand how the last investigation was concluded without any kind of report on the proceedings, and in this case I can't comprehend how it has taken so long without any apparent action. Obviously 'things may be going on behind the scenes'... but what? What great mysteries are there? Who needs to be contacted in great secrecy? What must be debated at length by the powers that be? 
Playing the 'long game' might pay dividends in filtering out vexatious complaints, and there may be a resourcing issue, but for goodness sake! I have great patience but I think it's time the OSCR were asked about how their processes actually work, and precisely what it is that takes so long.

----------


## sandyr1

Was just checking to see how your doing T., and as always it's the same story...Have our 'politicians' no 'pull' here/ or is it too Political and dangerous for them to intercede.  And what about the Media/ usually they are all for 'story', especially if there is a bit o' dirt in it!  Like the 'wifee' on Caithness.org.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

Goodness is this saga still going on...? Now there's a possibility of a new community high school and two new primary schools ...... but still no sports facility ah  well maybe one day.

----------


## Corrie 3

Time to call in the polis !!!    Enuf is enuf!!!
They are just taking the pee now!!!

C3............ ::  ::  ::

----------


## katarina

my goodness is this still going on?  I would have thought you would hav e an answer by now.  go to MP me thinks

----------


## oldmarine

Bill: You do a good job of policing this forum.

----------


## DMFB

Its been a while since I had a look on here I am saddend to see there is still no resolve no stadium and I am nearer to pushing up daisies than Wick is to its whatever it is this fund was supposed to provide.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

Okay another year and I will be the first this year to ask........Any news ?

----------


## Tubthumper

I've heard nothing, from the OSCR or from the WADF. They deserve each other. A community organisation that treats its community with contempt and a regulator that doesn't regulate.

----------


## Torvaig

Tubthumper, I would say you have done your very best to get answers to this saga. It is surely up to OSCR and the community themselves to push for answers as to where their money has gone, maybe even holding a extraordinary public meeting to force the issue and get it publicised in the local press to stir things up. If they are holding community money under false premise surely a crime has been committed?

----------


## catran

> Tubthumper, I would say you have done your very best to get answers to this saga. It is surely up to OSCR and the community themselves to push for answers as to where their money has gone, maybe even holding a extraordinary public meeting to force the issue and get it publicised in the local press to stir things up. If they are holding community money under false premise surely a crime has been committed?


It seems suspicious that they have no answers, has a crime has been committed if they are not coming clean  y. Looks as if it is a police matter rather than an MP interrogation. What is the problem and why the secrecy? The mind bogles .

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

As we know this thread is being followed by members of the Wick Academy ( not so ) Development Fund so I thought I would be the first to ask this year. 

When is the AGM ?

----------


## katarina

Goodness me, have we still got no answers to this question?

----------


## secrets in symmetry

> Goodness me, have we still got no answers to this question?


Which question?

Someone was pretending to be his wife when he posted. I wonder if he dressed up as her too.

----------


## catran

what do you mean, whose wife?



> Which question?
> 
> Someone was pretending to be his wife when he posted. I wonder if he dressed up as her too.

----------


## DMFB

I cannot believe ( well really I can ) this has not come to a good ending by now.  Shame on all involved with this fund who have thrown their toys out the pram.  The biggest losers in this are the people of Caithness who have put money into this fund and will never  ( in my case this is high likely ) never see a penny of the money spent on a new sports facility. Man up swallow your pride and just hand the blasted money over to an organisation that will put it tp use!!

----------


## Yon Chiel

But apparently the WADF inner circle were seen holding a meeting in Thurso last Monday night. What was the outcome ?

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

I've just noticed how many views this thread has had.......who would have thought it eh over 100 thousand  and still going.... :Wink:

----------


## gollach

> I've just noticed how many views this thread has had.......who would have thought it eh over 100 thousand  and still going....


Is that one view for every £ in the fund?  ::

----------


## Tubthumper

> But apparently the WADF inner circle were seen holding a meeting in Thurso last Monday night. What was the outcome ?


 Discussing use of the fund for the pool/ leisure centre/ gym at the old mart site nest to the High School? Also discussing the finer details of contributing to WAFC's development plans for this year?

----------


## Yon Chiel

> Discussing use of the fund for the pool/ leisure centre/ gym at the old mart site nest to the High School? Also discussing the finer details of contributing to WAFC's development plans for this year?


I'm sure that'll be exactly what it says in the Minutes of the meeting.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> I'm sure that'll be exactly what it says in the Minutes of the meeting.



 ::   ::     I look forward to reading them. Does anyone have the number for the psychic lady at JOG :Wink:

----------


## secrets in symmetry

Has anything happened regarding this fund, or are the usual suspects still sitting on our money?

----------


## pat

Just had notification that OSCR are going to Wick - time to see if committee turn up and if questions can be answered






*Meet the Charity Regulator event dates announced*Following our successful pilot events in 2012, we’re inviting charity trustees to our Meet the Charity Regulator events.
We will be visiting: 
Aberdeen – Tuesday 16 AprilOban – Thursday 25 AprilWick – Wednesday 1 MayThis is part of a series of events taking place across the country during 2013.
These events will give you the opportunity to hear about the latest developments in charity regulation, equality and fundraising.
OSCR staff and Board Members will be on hand to answer questions and discuss the issues that are important to your charity.
The events will provide you with an opportunity to meet other charity trustees in your area to:
network with other people, doing work like yoursshare your governance stories, good or badidentify sources of support and guidanceinspire and be inspired!Spaces are limited so please book early to avoid disappointment.
For further information and to book your place, please visit the OSCR website

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Just had notification that OSCR are going to Wick - time to see if committee turn up and if questions can be answered
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Meet the Charity Regulator event dates announced*Following our successful pilot events in 2012, were inviting charity trustees to our Meet the Charity Regulator events.
> We will be visiting: Aberdeen  Tuesday 16 AprilOban  Thursday 25 AprilWick  Wednesday 1 MayThis is part of a series of events taking place across the country during 2013.
> ...


Given the wall of silence and secrecy to date I doubt there will be any answers soon. I note that nothing ever came from the suggestion that there was a possibility of the fund talking with the new High School development. I am sure that the High School and sports facilities will be up and running and this money will still be sitting being used for the benefit of the community wasted  ::

----------


## Keyser_soze

If these clowns had spent the cash we gave them this season, WAFC , might have the wee couple o players that them top class bosses always complain about.,... We are ACADEMY from top to bottom I noticed this the other night, Dont ye ever forget it #WAFC

----------


## fender

Keyser - This Fund has got nothing what so ever to do with Wick Academy Football Club.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/...nd-6019340.htm

Worth going back and reading all the statements made to the press a couple of years ago and see how much of it has materialised.  :: 

Sad to say it appears that it was all hot air and pipe dreams as the High School is progressing with no news of the adjoining development sorry duplication of services beside it. Maybe they are now secretly in talks to take over the former High School site when it becomes available.  :Wink: 

More years down the road and still this money raised through public donations is sitting in a bank account benefiting no one.

----------


## DMFB

Blast from the past this one.Another year almost over and still all this money sitting for the benefit of the locals.Any news anyone? Any meetings. I told you I would be pushing up daisies before anything happens with this cash and Im now in my seventyfifth year. Maybe with advances in medicine I may live to see this money used for the benefit of those it was set up to benefit.

----------


## Metalattakk

First off, apologies for resurrecting this thread, but it seems this story just refuses to lie down.

Front page of today's Courier - 

http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/...d-01042014.htm

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

Its such a shame that this has never been resolved. Money raised by the public still sitting stagnant benefiting no one. The next AGM is when advertised where and who will be able to attend ....all top secret still.

----------


## veekay

Metalattakk it seems only proper that someone raised the question again. Not having had any answer from 'them' after such a long thread and much prodding 'they' need to realise that there a great number of people who want to know what is going on.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

For such an inactive charity they still manage to have a small amount of expenses ?? How odd. Maybe its for the hire of the huge hall they need for their meetings which are soooo open to the public and sooooo well advertised !!

Or maybe it was successful groups who have applied for funding from this fund.

https://www.oscr.org.uk/search-chari...umber=sc032787

----------


## Tubthumper

OSCR have never followed up the complaints made a whiley back. Even John Thurso just gets a 'enquriies are in progress' note when he queries how things are progressing. 
£135 000 in the bank, just sitting there, safe. Academy money, no matter what Bawheid Gunn says.
Meanwhile the committee appear to do nothing to fulfil their obligations.
Has our favourite Chairman been up to any of his old tricks recently? I notice he was a bit shy when the Groat asked for a quote. and Academy could sure do with the cash.
So is anyone going to do anything? Or do we just shrug and say 'Ach weel..'?

----------


## Tubthumper

Once upon a time there was a wee football club. It wasn’t doing very well, partly because its chairman and secretary weren’t any good. And it wasn’t getting better even though its community supported it through buying weekly draw tickets which seemed to take in a lot of money. But it became apparent that the money raised (collected in ‘The Fund’) wasn’t to be used to make the club better despite everyone thinking that, and both entities having the same name.
The Fund was even generous enough to give a wee drop of the Club’s own money to help it through hard times (it was because of the crappy chairman and his crappy mates taking all the money for their Fund that the Club was in the plop anyway – also their rubbish leadership).
And it came to pass that the Club supporters got mightily cheesed off with the chairman and his pals and hoofed them out the door. And lo, to everyone’s disbelief when these jokers went they took the dosh with them, despite everyone involved (except the buffoons on the Fund committee) thinking the money had been raised for the footie club.
And after a while the regulator came along and, to everyone’s _double_ disbelief, found rubbish management of the Fund but no evidence of wrongdoing. And there was newspaper involvement, the MSP and MP asked questions, there was all kinds of claims and lies and obfuscations but the money (£135 000 and rising) sat in a bank account doing sod all for the community that donated it with the expectation it would be spent on the community. And there it remains.
What should the community do? Should it demand access to the dosh they donated? (The committee flatly refuse to let anyone else join their Fund, for fear they’ll take the money). Should OSCR (the regulator) finally direct that the Fund committee need to start doing what their constitution says it will, i.e. do stuff for the benefit of the community? Should the community hold an open meeting and demand that the Fund committee stand up, answer for their actions and state their intentions for the community's money? 
Or will the community just shrug and say ‘Ach weel…’?

----------


## DMFB

I have stated it before and I will state it again I very much doubt I will ever see anything happen with this money in my day. I would love to think that all concerned would put aside personal grudges and work together for the benefit of the community. Without thieir donations through purchasing the tickets this fund would have nothing it's only fair that the wishes of the very people who donated their money should be taken into account. Most folk want to see this money released for use why the committee cannot grasp this and act just bemuses me but then I'm just an old man maybe my brains going.

----------


## Tubthumper

'The objects of the Fund shall be to promote for the benefit of the inhabitants of Wick and its environs without distinction of sex, sexuality, political , religious or other opinions by associating with the local statutory authorities, voluntary organisations and inhabitants in a common effort to advance education and to provide facilities, or assist in the provision of facilities , in the interest of social welfare for recreation and other leisure - time occupation so that their conditions of life may be improved'

----------


## DMFB

Thank you tub thumper for that information.This being the case I don't think they are following this or maybe their objectives has changed.I heard of a couple of organisations who had applied in recent years for help youth football clubs I believe and they were refused money due to it being kept to build a sport facility. As I have always said we will never see this built notin my day. As time has moved on so has the need for these facilities Wick Academy have invested heavily in their facility now the high school will I believe have excellent facilities all these things happening while this money is lying going to no use.DISGRACEFUL!

----------


## DMFB

Oh dear another year has come and almost gone I am another year closer to my end my question is this any development ?

----------


## Tubthumper

Apparently there's not many of them left on the 'committee'. Wonder what happens when they're no longer quorate for their annual meeting? But it doesn't matter as someone reckons no-one's getting 'his' money anyway...

----------


## DMFB

Another year gone another year wasted another year this money has benefitted no on .....DISGRACE but hey one day maybe not in my time but one day. I still remember their post way back saying they were going to be talking to the folks building the high school about a way forward guessthe cats got their tongue and they didnt bother DISGUSTING !!

----------


## DMFB

At what meeting did mr G Oswald Rosebank take over from I think was it not Mr Carter Thursi street his neghbour just a few doors along. How come no one else got an opportunity to put their names forward for this prestigous position.

----------


## wickblast

Im gettin fed up with this nonsence the money is doing no good in the bank give it to east end to build a facility that both them and wick accademy can use. I bought these tickets under the understanding that the people of wick would benifit from my donation.Something needs to be done and fast

----------


## DMFB

I agree and have just done something I never thought in all my years I would do. I phoned the charity regulators in person and voiced my disgust with this whole sorry situation. Iwould suggest everyone else now does the same. 01382 220 446 is the number Iwas given to dial.

----------


## Phill

Right.

This needs dragging back up, methinks.

Any updates, anyone?

Investment from the fund?
Payouts?
Community benefit?

----------


## Shaggy

No.
No.
No.
& No.

probably hoping this all dies down and then go on a shopping spree.....

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Right.
> 
> This needs dragging back up, methinks.
> 
> Any updates, anyone?
> 
> Investment from the fund?
> Payouts?
> Community benefit?


Come on now Phill seriously you expect them to have done something with all this money fundraised from the public to benefit their egos  sorry the public   ::

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

I recently attended a meeting where discussion took place about charitys hoarding money and this was part of a response from OSCR it made very interesting reading considering the mess that is this fund 


_We expect existing charities to in some way provide public benefit, and not simply intend to provide it.  This means that there must be activity on the part of an existing charity in the pursuit of their stated purposes as set out in their governing document. 

In assessing whether a charity actively provides public benefit we will take a reasonable, fair and proportionate approach and acknowledge that different charities will have very different levels of activity.  We acknowledge that there may be periods of apparent inactivity in a charitys existence.  However, we expect these to last for a limited time only and expect that charity trustees will explain them in their Annual Report, which needs to be prepared every year and submitted to OSCR.

_Hmm cant think when there last was activity from this charity.

----------


## veekay

I do so love your optimistic thread Phill - Investments, payout, community benefits. I so wish someone would pop along and say well yes and look we have done all this and aren't we wonderful. Of course, they won't, they will just hide as always and tell themselves how wonderful they are.

I issue a challenge to the great 'they' - tell us what is happening!

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> I do so love your optimistic thread Phill - Investments, payout, community benefits. I so wish someone would pop along and say well yes and look we have done all this and aren't we wonderful. Of course, they won't, they will just hide as always and tell themselves how wonderful they are.
> 
> I issue a challenge to the great 'they' - tell us what is happening!



Hahahahahaha < picks oneself up of floor dusts oneself down and composes oneself > 

If the great THEY respond to you veekay Ill be first person to dance naked round  whatever it is they propose to do with the cash....when they do it ..... dont think i will need to rush out and tone up my body anytime soon  :Grin:   :Grin:

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

My word over 140,000 views Im impressed but dissapointed it still hasn't prompted any action.

----------


## veekay

> Hahahahahaha < picks oneself up of floor dusts oneself down and composes oneself > 
> 
> If the great THEY respond to you veekay Ill be first person to dance naked round  whatever it is they propose to do with the cash....when they do it ..... dont think i will need to rush out and tone up my body anytime soon


I bet this will get them out there with a ready response!

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> I bet this will get them out there with a ready response!


I would love to lose this bet to you however I bet a nice bottle of wine that they dont. Head in sand rear in air me thinks. 

I cant wait to see their ready response if they do provide one it will be something along the lines of your picking on us .... its a vendetta ........... we are working hard in the background...... funny they NEVER did talk to Highland Council like they said they were doing regarding this money and the new school. If they were it certainly wasnt with someone in the know as I remember asking at the time.

----------


## BetterTogether

Not sure if this is the right bunch Wick Academy Development Fund SC032787 

but it worth a look 

make of it what you will

http://www.oscr.org.uk/search-oscr/c...032787#results

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Not sure if this is the right bunch Wick Academy Development Fund SC032787 
> 
> but it worth a look 
> 
> make of it what you will
> 
> http://www.oscr.org.uk/search-oscr/c...032787#results


Its them you got the right ones not fundraising anymore just sitting on the money raised from the public.

----------


## BetterTogether

Sounds like they need a little encouragement from the charities Commision to make sure they are actually discharging their duties properly  :: 

Unless anybody has any objections I shall put out a few feelers and see if there isn't a way of encouraging them to do the right thing in a timely fashion. 

Maybe be a little higher profile exposure of this issue rather than the org would be beneficial.

If anyone has any relevant information regarding this please feel free to drop me a PM.

----------


## BetterTogether

> Its them you got the right ones not fundraising anymore just sitting on the money raised from the public.


I'd suggest complaining to the charity first do it via recorded mail and keep a copy.

If you receive no suitable reply in a timely fashion then use the link provided to make an official complaint.

http://www.frsb.org.uk/donors/

If sufficient people are aggrieved by this charities behaviour and feel that no satisfaction is forthcoming a little press exposure never goes amiss.


You can always use political forces to bring a bit more pressure to bear.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

They have been reported to OSCR by several members of this forum. It ran in the local press for a little while. John Thurso MP became involved and still nothing. They stuck two fingers up at everything and kept the doors closed. They never publicly advertise their AGM no one has a clue about whats going on. Letters recorded delivery have been sent to them on occasion asking for details they only give out the minimum they are required to and even then if I can remember theyasked for a fee to do this....its not as thought he committee are overworked in their daily running of this charity. This was a high profile charity with many local people having bought their cards when they used to be on sale including myself as they used to be on sale in the hospital canteen. Its a disgrace.

----------


## BetterTogether

I shall do some digging and a bit of rocking in appropriate places see if a bit of leverage won't help a bit. I feel this might be a good cause to allow some of my more tenacious tendencies to vent on.

They can't stonewall forever and have to do something.

----------


## BetterTogether

I've placed an official complaint in with FRSB to start the ball rolling

----------


## veekay

I wonder how long it will be before a 'committee member' complains to de management and has this thread closed again

----------


## BetterTogether

Doesn't really matter if they do complain or not it's all a matter of public record now informations has been passed to the relevant people and new pressure shall be applied in ways and forms they won't appreciate. 
They have legal obligations to fulfil all that is required is a tenacious longer term more imaginative approach to be used to bring them to a fully legal account of themselves. 

Any information regarding letters sent and not replied to, phone calls , information requests would be appreciated

----------


## Aaldtimer

BT,..." all that is required is a tenacious longer term more imaginative approach"...this thread started in 2010. ::

----------


## BetterTogether

Yes it started in 2010 and so far it's failed to achieve anything so a new method is required.

How about multiple requests from people who are truly concerned as opposed to singular maybe a petition

----------


## BetterTogether

Here we go folks get signing let's see if we can get the numbers going

https://www.change.org/p/wick-academ...ter_responsive

----------


## The Horseman

I have also contacted OSCR.   Rec'd a computer generated reply saying they were in receipt of Complaint.

----------


## squidge

its past time this was sorted out. Not a great one for petitions but signed this one

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

I agree however to date no one has ever had any of their complaints listened to or acted upon in earnest disgraceful !!

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> I have also contacted OSCR.   Rec'd a computer generated reply saying they were in receipt of Complaint.


I have no doubt you will need to contact them on more than one occasion. I see Mr Carter is no longer named on OSCR site as the contact or whatever it is but his neighbour Mr Oswald a few doors down. I wonder if Mr Oswald will be more communicative than Mr Carter if contacted.

----------


## The Horseman

Perhaps if we all contacted this Charitable overseer, a message will be conveyed that something should be done. I have asked they look into this Charity, and ensure they do more that take at 'face value' the reasons these monies have not been spent.  I saw someone wrote that the collections/charity started in 2002..., quite a while eh!
Seeing that no money has been raised since 2009, this issue is long overdue.  
I am sure that there is action the Authorities can take. Sometimes these Regulatory Bodies are reluctant to take any action as it could mean bad press for them, but if someone could get a story in the Newspaper, and the reporter being asked to follow this up....Action time. 
I am just throwing out ideas...some years ago I 'contributed' to this venture.  
I move over, to allow those with better knowledge and connections to take the lead.
Thankx......h
ps.  I am sure said parties are reading these posts. Maybe there is a msg. for them!

----------


## bekisman

> Perhaps if we all contacted this Charitable overseer, a message will be conveyed that something should be done. I have asked they look into this Charity, and ensure they do more that take at 'face value' the reasons these monies have not been spent.  I saw someone wrote that the collections/charity started in 2002..., quite a while eh!
> Seeing that no money has been raised since 2009, this issue is long overdue.  
> I am sure that there is action the Authorities can take. Sometimes these Regulatory Bodies are reluctant to take any action as it could mean bad press for them, but if someone could get a story in the Newspaper, and the reporter being asked to follow this up....Action time. 
> I am just throwing out ideas...some years ago I 'contributed' to this venture.  
> I move over, to allow those with better knowledge and connections to take the lead.
> Thankx......h
> ps.  I am sure said parties are reading these posts. Maybe there is a msg. for them!



Pleased you are taking this action well done!

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

Yes its good to have it brought up that still after all these years theres no action.

----------


## The Horseman

Anyone game to get this going.......pity about Better Together....he seems to be on the right course. Oh well...h

----------


## Keyser_soze

See this money , look at this week, Now Academy have possibly the biggest cup match in their history & the game is called off yet again, How embarrassing is it that they could have covers over the pitch - yet cant afford them & theres £140 k in the bank?? 
Its absolutely despicable the way that Gunn will not hand over the money, Jacky your reputation is lower than a snakes belly thanks to the way you have handled this , Just coz you dont like the present committee , they incidently have shown you up in how to run a football club, you collected that money for Wick Academy not Jacky Gunn & friends.

Do the decent thing before you get much older & give the money over to the club

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

Five years since this thread started disgusting !!

----------


## pat

Trying to get OSCR to investigate is worse than watching paint dry - nothing happens and as Alice ints out this is now five years since this thread started.
Hope you manage to get somewhere with OSCR and will keep us informed

----------


## Droopy

J. Gunn and A. Carter hate Wick Academy doing well. They sneer when the Club lose and say nothing when they win.
What a horrible pair.
On the plus side they must lead a particularly dismal life. Id imagine not a soul in Wick wants to be seen with or speak to them. Their families must be so embarrassed or maybe they've disowned them both too?

What a shame they seem to be able to cower behind The Charites Commission weak willed jobsworth rules and regs.
The sad thing is though, neither of them seem to care that they are the two most ridiculed men in Caithness, as they take great satisfaction that they are sitting on money that doesn't belong to them, but that they don't have to hand over either.

The irony in all of this is that as much as Wick Academy could do great things with the money, since those two left it has never done so well, but that makes them both even more determined to cling on to the poison chalice that has consumed both their lives to the extent it has cost them everything.

----------


## veekay

Droopy, Why do these people have such contempt for Wick Academy?

----------


## fender

> Droopy, Why do these people have such contempt for Wick Academy?


One time 'Chair' and one time Secretary who admittedly did a great job until the 'Chair' breezed in. Also let's not forget the one time 'Vice-Chair', the brains of the operation at the time. Happily now sunning himself miles and miles away.

----------


## Bradcon

> J. Gunn and A. Carter hate Wick Academy doing well. They sneer when the Club lose and say nothing when they win.
> What a horrible pair.
> On the plus side they must lead a particularly dismal life. Id imagine not a soul in Wick wants to be seen with or speak to them. Their families must be so embarrassed or maybe they've disowned them both too?
> 
> What a shame they seem to be able to cower behind The Charites Commission weak willed jobsworth rules and regs.
> The sad thing is though, neither of them seem to care that they are the two most ridiculed men in Caithness, as they take great satisfaction that they are sitting on money that doesn't belong to them, but that they don't have to hand over either.
> 
> The irony in all of this is that as much as Wick Academy could do great things with the money, since those two left it has never done so well, but that makes them both even more determined to cling on to the poison chalice that has consumed both their lives to the extent it has cost them everything.


see mr carter standing at all academy home games so y would he got to watch if he wanted them to lose.

----------


## Droopy

> see mr carter standing at all academy home games so y would he got to watch if he wanted them to lose.


Why does going to home games mean he wants them to win??
Both he and Wacky would have been gutted when Wick won the cup.
If he wanted Academy to win and prosper he'd hand over the money that was raised for club surely? What he tends to forget is people bought the tickets largely due to the fact Wick Academy's name was on them.

----------


## The Horseman

Spoke to OSCR.
Few complaints have been received. 
Seems lots of reads and posts, but very little action from participants of this Board.
Sad.

----------


## tonkatojo

> Spoke to OSCR.
> Few complaints have been received. 
> Seems lots of reads and posts, but very little action from participants of this Board.
> Sad.


Did the OSCR say how many complaints are required to enable them to act ? or is that their cop out.

----------


## Bradcon

> Why does going to home games mean he wants them to win??
> Both he and Wacky would have been gutted when Wick won the cup.
> If he wanted Academy to win and prosper he'd hand over the money that was raised for club surely? What he tends to forget is people bought the tickets largely due to the fact Wick Academy's name was on them.


is he actually still part of wadf as in another post further back it says a mr Oswald is involved.

----------


## Alice in Blunderland

> Spoke to OSCR.
> Few complaints have been received. 
> Seems lots of reads and posts, but very little action from participants of this Board.
> Sad.


I have made no secret of the fact I made a written complaint regarding this inactive fund to OSCR. I subsequently followed it up a year later with a further inquiry into any outcome. I gave my full name and address with all contact details and received no feedback nothing diddly squat !!

----------


## pat

I make no bones about it, have written to OSCR several times, giving full information about myself and why I wished for this charity, monies and members of the panel running it to be investigated fully.   This money was raised by WADF and not the members of this panel who now hold this money and wish to know when this money is going to be dispersed or be made to be used as it was intended by the people who bought tickets for Wick Academy.

----------


## tonkatojo

Alice and Pat, I am not qualified nor up to date with what has happened with this fund in the past but it would appear you's and others have investigated and have grievance with OSCR. By the look of things it would appear the next step would be a complaint against OSSCR themselves, they have a complaint mechanism which I do not know if anyone has used, so here is the link for those that can use it.
http://www.oscr.org.uk/charities/complain-about-oscr

----------


## Droopy

> is he actually still part of wadf as in another post further back it says a mr Oswald is involved.


I believe the threesome are Wacky Gunn, Andrew Martyr and Geoff Odd-world who make up the WADF hierarchy. The latter two being among the same flock at a Wick church no less! Wacky doesn't go to church as he is God of his own world.

No matter what way you look at it Wacky and Martyr are the organ grinder and monkey. They both hate Wick Academy and it gives them both great pleasure talking the club down to the very few odd souls who are still forced to listen to them. 

To not give the money the people of Wick raised to Wick Academy to further the club is quite simply dispicable. Imagine if they had collected money under the guise for Children In Need or Cancer Research, and then didn't hand over the raised money to the cause that people thought the money was being raised for? There would be a outcry, and this situation isn't far off the same situation.

But hey ho, as I said in a previous post, holding on to the money has probably cost them everything, their friends, family, credibility and reputation.........while Wick Academy continues to prosper without the pair of them.

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## fender

> I believe the threesome are Wacky Gunn, Andrew Martyr and Geoff Odd-world who make up the WADF hierarchy. The latter two being among the same flock at a Wick church no less! Wacky doesn't go to church as he is God of his own world.
> 
> No matter what way you look at it Wacky and Martyr are the organ grinder and monkey. They both hate Wick Academy and it gives them both great pleasure talking the club down to the very few odd souls who are still forced to listen to them. 
> 
> To not give the money the people of Wick raised to Wick Academy to further the club is quite simply dispicable. Imagine if they had collected money under the guise for Children In Need or Cancer Research, and then didn't hand over the raised money to the cause that people thought the money was being raised for? There would be a outcry, and this situation isn't far off the same situation.
> 
> But hey ho, as I said in a previous post, holding on to the money has probably cost them everything, their friends, family, credibility and reputation.........while Wick Academy continues to prosper without the pair of them.


Please let us not forget he who now lives down under as being part of this gang.

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## Droopy

> Please let us not forget he who now lives down under as being part of this gang.


David G'day...? I don't think he holds any present post or role within WADF.

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## John Little

Alright - I'm an outsider so I am going to ask a dumb question just out of pure curiosity.

If there is a large sum of money supposed to be used for a purpose and in a set of circumstances where no sight of it has been had for ages, and the regulating authority is not functioning....and no-one responds to queries about it...

... is this not a Police matter?

I ask in all innocence truly.  It just seems..... logical under the circumstances.

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## Alice in Blunderland

Im not sure about Police as the money is still there...... well so we think not that their meetings are open to the public but according to OSCR. I cant imagine what their expenses are is it to toast how well they are doing each time they meet up, wherever it may be, whenever it may be and with whoever it may be .....certainly not the public who paid for the tickets.

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## Outsider1966

Would the person who contacted myself early in December regarding information  relating to this subject please contact me. I would be very interested in following up on our conversation.

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## Outsider1966

I will try once again and ask the person that phoned me early Dec with the Info on the Development Fund, that they would get back in touch, as I would like to take this to the next level.

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## Droopy

If anyone is in any doubt what a horrible man Mr Martyr is. Google  'scorrie1962 twitter' and read the twisted things this "man" writes about the club he claims to support but in actual fact uses it as a conduit to try and spread his bile about a club that has prospered ever since the day him and Wacky were forced to leave, thus saving the club's existence from collapsing under their lack lustre leadership.

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## Droopy

Thanks for the shout out on your Twitter Mr Martyr.

Any chance you will now substantiate your lurid claims of who stopped your multi-million pound development you were going to build with the 135k you and Wacky are sitting on. Or does throwing out spurious rants fit in with your delusional world better? You refuse to meet up with WAFC so obviously you don't like reality.

Why not tell us what you ARE going to do with the money, rather than what you didn't/couldn't/wouldn't ?? Why not build your great facility and rent it out to "the benefit of Caithness and its environs"......you've had long enough to do it, or maybe it was a delusional pipe dream after all.

Go on son, step out from behind your locked door and computer screen. Get the cheque book out, hand over the money to the name of the organisation that was on the tickets the Caithness community bought. Redeem yourself in the eyes of God, and not Wacky who thinks he's god. Take the weight of your shoulders and finally put an end to the guilt youre overcome with, and that consumes you to the point that you can't accept that the fund has cost you everything. But nevermind, at least you and Wacky have each other.

Absoluty despicable affair.

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## Phill

At least @scorrie1962 seems to enjoy fine holidays in Costa Rica!

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## Keyser_soze

Maybe coz he works in Dounreay, he may save his pennies up like aLL GOOD BOYS and do it that way , but omg he has some nerve going on tweeting any bad ill will towards WAFC present board- if he and Wacky were any use theyd still be in the chair - but they were hopeless & thankfully gone

Wheres the dough ??  See anywhere else, the locals wouldve gone round with pitchforks and got the money that doesnt belong to those 2

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## Alice in Blunderland

who remembers way back when they posted on here about the possibility of talking to HC re the new school and the sports facilities..... schools built sports facilities going in place.....nothing from WADF they must have thought the money would be better off in the bank than improving or adding to the sports facilities for the community....

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## Shaggy

the longer this debacle continues, the more i think that the money is gone. Has anyone any firm knowledge if there is indeed any money in the bank?

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## Outsider1966

_Thanks for the shout out on your Twitter Mr Martyr.

 Any chance you will now substantiate your lurid claims of who stopped your multi-million pound development you were going to build with the 135k you and Wacky are sitting on. Or does throwing out spurious rants fit in with your delusional world better? You refuse to meet up with WAFC so obviously you don't like reality.

 Why not tell us what you ARE going to do with the money, rather than what you didn't/couldn't/wouldn't ?? Why not build your great facility and rent it out to "the benefit of Caithness and its environs"......you've had long enough to do it, or maybe it was a delusional pipe dream after all.

 Go on son, step out from behind your locked door and computer screen. Get the cheque book out, hand over the money to the name of the organisation that was on the tickets the Caithness community bought. Redeem yourself in the eyes of God, and not Wacky who thinks he's god. Take the weight of your shoulders and finally put an end to the guilt youre overcome with, and that consumes you to the point that you can't accept that the fund has cost you everything. But nevermind, at least you and Wacky have each other.

 Absoluty despicable affair._ 




I have noticed this post with regards to the claims of who stopped the multi-million pound development.  I have been given information regarding the people who allegedly prevented the land that was available from being fulfilled. I was very surprised at the alleged names and have been told that the names can be substantiated along with the blocking of the land. Until the evidence is forthcoming to myself, then I cannot follow up on it. The individual that made myself aware of this knows how to make contact and provide the evidence. Until such time then I cannot do anymore.

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## Outsider1966

I have been assured the money is safe in a bank account

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## Outsider1966

Tonigh I have been assured the money is safe in a bank account

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## pat

We have all been reassured at various times but never any proof - get your proof and the money spent, according to the way and why the tickets were originally sold, then folk would be a little more settled on the subject.
How many years now has it been since this money has been with-held from the original reason for fundraising?

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## Droopy

The annual accounts for Mr Martyr and Wacky's fund are again overdue for the year ending May 2015 according to the Scottish Charities Regulator OSCR.
Perhaps he should concentrate on getting his own affairs in order rather than hide in his bedroom with his laptop, continually picking fault with WAFC.

We're also all still waiting to hear who stopped his 5 million pound stadium he was going to build with 135k in the bank. Or maybe he realised he just couldn't do it and chose to make up delusional excuses instead.

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## Alice in Blunderland

Its not as though there has been a great deal of activity to report on to OSCR from last year is it ??

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## pat

You never know Alice - the committee may have been off to Thailand to investigate football investing in that country or been to Brazil to check out football financing trying to find how the committee will spend/invest the monies left in this fund.

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## Alice in Blunderland

They said they were looking at talks with HC to do with the new school looks like talking is all they do as there is never any action. Disgraceful yet again they are ignoring the community feeling regarding this mess. That's exactly what it is a mess they have let their egos get in the way of distributing funds raised from the community for the benefit of the club and in the end they ignore the community.

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## dc1

Alice i think a lot of wick  supporters thought the money was for the club not for the community

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## Keyser_soze

I see Martyr on twitter making a fool of himself yet again, anything he says he has the crackpot nugg backing him up , what is it with these 2 oxygen thiefs ? Have they spent all their money on catalogue brides or what ?

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## Droopy

The charity thieves (Wakky, Martyr and Od-world) have eventually submitted the annual accounts to OSCR for year ending May 2015, they were submitted on the 29th September 2016!! and highlighted as being late/overdue by the Charities Commission.
They showed an income of £264 (interest on the 140k presumably) and zero expenditure.

Meanwhile over on 'scorrie1962' on Twitter, Carter has taking to ridiculing school children now in their efforts in coming up with ideas for the new Caithness flag inspired away strip, paying particular attention to the youngster who sketched the shorts. What a truly horrible sad use of the Internet, trolling kids. I presume he's none of his own.

How the Dempster Street church roof doesn't go on fire when he walks through the door on a Sunday morning l don't know.

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## onespace

> How the Dempster Street church roof doesn't go on fire when he walks through the door on a Sunday morning l don't know.


My dictionary says, definition for 'Evangelical Christian'......see 'Hypocrite'.

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## Droopy

> My dictionary says, definition for 'Evangelical Christian'......see 'Hypocrite'.


In another unfortunate twist, the Minister at the church Odd-world and Martyr attend is also the WAFC minister!....how can the flock accept a man who received money under false pretenses welcome him under their roof?? 

Martyr now responds to posts on here on his Twitter account....why can't you reply here Andrew?? You didn't deny being a thief oddly, but defended your internet bullying of kids by some weird explanation about Porsche cars??

We're still waiting to hear your previous delusional reasons about who stopped your 5 million pound stadium being built. So come on, don't shout your mouth off about things you can't back up.....or people will just assume you're a bitter sad individual with no credibility, who hides in your bedroom trolling kids - who love Wick Academy on your laptop.

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## Shaggy

I wonder just how many of the people who donated their hard-earned for this great cause know what is happening (or not as the case may be) with the money? Why hasn't the Groat or P&J taken this up or even the charities commission? or the police? surely it's fraud collecting cash for a cause that didn't get it! it's shameful the way this bunch are hanging onto the cash and not giving it back to the community that THEY belong to! or maybe they don't anymore considering the situation. This money was donated in good faith and what they are doing is preventing other local charities from receiving much needed funds as im sure people who gave to this fund are maybe now thinking twice about supporting any other good cause in case it goes the same way.

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## Droopy

Come on Carter, blow the lid on who stopped you and Wacky Gunn building your 5 million pound sports arena. 

Your unsubstantiated and bitter spurious tweet in January of this year told us to "watch this space" as the public would "be shocked" 
Let's hear it then, divert your time from online kid bullying about a primary school drawing competition and tell us who the bad man was and how they actually prevented you building it.
Where was the land?....who owned it?...were they prepared to sell?....who were your solicitors/architects/accountants etc.
You'd need all of those to initiate buying land.

What will you now do with the money and how can people apply for it? Who are the development fund committee now? Bet you don't answer, as you're a delusional odd ball who'd rather upset kids online as part of your pathetic and obsessed keyboard warrior campaign to criticise WAFC.

Thou shalt not steal Andrew!

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## Droopy

I've been given information by PM that the winning letters were picked at random in the old Dounreay Club in Wick on Monday nights BUT that the tickets were not checked there. They were checked afterwards in Wacky Gunns house!!! who was also the promoter. So in essence he had the winning letters to then take home to find a winning ticket....The tickets also did not have individual serial numbers on them which is illegal under The Lotteries and Amusement Act 1976 and would make the money raised illegal too.

Also that Wackys girlfriend at the time won the jackpot, and also D.Bremner's mother even although she didn't know she'd bought a ticket, which led to her ordering her son off the Development Committee once she saw she'd "won" in the local paper. Is anyone able to confirm this?

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## Droopy

More PM information coming in by the day folks, here's the latest.

'G'day Dave' sold loads of the 'lucky letters' tickets offshore on different rigs and the letters selected would be faxed to Wacky's house...but the faxes wern't always received by 7pm on a Monday night as the telephone links back then to the rigs wasn't always dependable. Anyway to cut a long story short, there were lots of Hartlepool, Liverpool, Newcastle and Aberdeenshire winners. The suggestion is that if say John Swindler from Hartlepool won the jackpot, who would really know if it was in fact a real ticket, or a made up one with the money going to another guy by the name of Swindler?....to buy a car with perhaps? 

A local kids club applied to the Wick Academy Development Fund for a first aid kit but they were refused, so Wick Academy stepped in and bought the kids club one. Don't hear Carter aka Twitter Scorrie1962 mentioning that on his pathetic crusade on twitter.

And on the subject of his twitter account, he's now set his account to private which is quite apt, as he can have his spurious bitter rants and claims read by only about 6 people, which is 5 more than actually care what he says in the real world.  

I still find it unbelievable this guy goes to the Dempster Street Church every Sunday along with his mate Odd-world, its really not a good impression for the congregation to have in the community.

"Thou Shalt Not Steal"

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## crayola

Interesting posts Droopy Drawers. The more the community knows the better.  :Smile: 

Careful though, you don't want to leave yourself open to claims of defamation.

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## Droopy

> Interesting posts Droopy Drawers. The more the community knows the better. 
> 
> Careful though, you don't want to leave yourself open to claims of defamation.


Oh that's nothing Crayola.....

Few more dirty deeds of the dynamic duo to reveal yet.

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## crayola

I look forward to reading the next instalment.  :Smile:

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## Crackeday

Its shocking how this is still rumbling on with no resolution in sight. The Allegations of Corruption, Fraud, Neglect of duties etc etc would be great as a Hollywood blockbuster! How no-one has been made Accountable (for want of a better word  :Wink:  ) is beyond me. 2 Film titles would be "The Untouchables" and "Rebel without a cause"

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## Droopy

Meanwhile over at Scorrie1962 on twitter, Martyr is enquiring if Wick Academy will go after a player Brora Rangers have put on the transfer market. 
I'd imagine the reply might sound like this:


Dear Andrew

Thankyou for you ongoing interest in Wick Academy FC.

Unfortunately it was proved in the mid 90's to circa 2005 that buying, and then paying over rated players was not the way forward for the club. It led to bottom four league positions almost ever year and took the club to the brink of financial collapse which led to the then Chairman and Secretary being outvoted at a members agm.

Furthermore and unlike the period mentioned above, Wick Academy FC will not be dipping in to a fundraising ticket charity fund to pay players cash to take them to the club in the hope it brings success.

We thank you for your interest and would enquire as to when you and Jacky will be handing the money over to Wick Academy FC that was raised in its name so that the club may continue to prosper under good and proper business practices.

Regards
Wick Academy FC

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## onespace

Now I know who you're on about. This doesn't seem to make sense though. He's still a strong supporter of Academy if it's the same person I'm thinking of. 

So how does someone who has done this with the dosh still turn up at Harmsworth Park every week?  Hasn't the 'mob' done him over ?  How come he's not heckled or banned from the ground ?  Surely it can't be as bad as you're making out or he'd never be able to show his face.

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## pat

Wick Academy are slowly - each week - they are getting some money from this supporter?!?   - so why should they cut off a paying customer with bully boy tactics and being nasty to any supporter.
Wick Academy and their supporters are polite people and know that they will get the money eventually. even if it is so much a week entrance money and paying for a pie and bovril!!
Wick Academy know the money acquired through the years will be returned to them once OSCR finish with them and perhaps the courts too.
Nothing is worth the trouble of getting involved in threatening assaults etc -

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## onespace

Don't get the wrong end of the stick here. I wasn't suggesting you rough him up. Just that if I'd done a runner with the club funds, I wouldn't be turning up at that same club every week - or if I did I'd be anticipating some sort of repercussions.

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## Droopy

> Now I know who you're on about. This doesn't seem to make sense though. He's still a strong supporter of Academy if it's the same person I'm thinking of. 
> 
> So how does someone who has done this with the dosh still turn up at Harmsworth Park every week?  Hasn't the 'mob' done him over ?  How come he's not heckled or banned from the ground ?  Surely it can't be as bad as you're making out or he'd never be able to show his face.


The guy has nothing left to lose, he cuts a rather pariah figure. No friends and a loner.

And far from being a strong supporter, the only reason he goes to games is so he can find negative things to write about Academy on his twitter feed....and if he can't find something negative he'll find a spurious slur that can't be proved one way or the other. 

He pays lip service occasionally by wishing the team good luck, but they are outnumbered 100/1 by his negative bitter tweets. He also uses his knowledge of how WAFC has to conduct itself and knows that the Club's not going to correct his rubbish even if what he writes is totally bonkers. He's not worth the effort.

Basically he's fuming inside himself that the Club has never looked back since Wacky the Organ Grinder and he the monkey were ousted in 2005. 
Two lonely pariahs who will forever be remembered as just that. And all they've to do is hand over money they can't spend anyway. 

They're so bitter that one of them even complained to Tesco head office that Wick Academy were selling xmas raffle tickets in Wick and it might contravene data protection. That's how 'strong' their support is. 

Lots more info coming in by PM.

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## onespace

Sounds like pride is preventing them doing anything. Or they've spent it. 

Either way, I reckon this money will never see the light of day ever again.

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## The Horseman

Cud u 'elaborate'?

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## The Horseman

> Prepare yursels.
> 
> Thurs good news (thur hand hes been forced).  And thurs bad news (wir no gettan a penny o id).


Kinda funny comment....was hoping to get a wee bitty of info?

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## DMFB

Oh here we go again if only this mess were to get sorted. I am another year nearer the grave and still this fiasco continues. Money raised by the community for the community lying unused because of stupid arrogance.

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## Bill Fernie

Dan Mackay sums up the current situation following an item in the local paper -
https://www.facebook.com/dan.mackay....03409672760496

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## Camra

Dan Mackay has been offered the opportunity to attend the next RBWCC meeting to be enlightend  to the facts of RBWCC intervention as a Voluntary Organisation to the benefit of the inhabitants of Wick.   This is in compliance with WADF annual report for 2015 and  their intention to reconsider their options following completion of the new Community Facilities. 

A group is being formed with the intention of refurbishing the King George V park and approached WADF, again totally in compliance with WADF aims and objective available on their OSCR website.

The Hogmanay Party committee have never approached WADF for funding for their 'hooley', nows thats complete 'codswallup'

RBWCC is open to all, next meeting first Monday of October if anyone wants the facts.

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## Bill Fernie

The Royal Burgh of Wick Community Council have attempted to get things moving with some questions to  Wick Academy Development Fund.  A valiant attempt that has been rebuffed - 
The Royal Burgh of Wick Community Council submitted the undernoted questions to Wick Academy Development Fund following a report in the Caithness Courier of 6th September 2017 which quoted WADF Chairman Jacky Gunn as saying "If the Community Council want to write a letter to us with the questions they want answered, we will consider them." the questions were sent to WADF under cover of a letter dated 2nd October 2017 their response dated 10th January 2018 is also shown below.

See the Wick Community council Facebook page 
https://www.facebook.com/wickcommunitycouncil/

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## Bogbrush

Those are good and reasonable questions. I wonder if, rather than approaching OSCR / HMRC, that answers should be compelled by the court?

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## Camra

WADF / OSCR

I refer to Judith Hayhow’s email to you on 8 December 2017 and am writing with reference to the contact form you submitted online asking OSCR to provide responses we have made in relation to inquiries submitted against Wick Academy Development Fund (the charity).

OSCR continues to have a long running inquiry into Wick Academy Development Fund.  We are aware that the charity has raised considerable funds but has not yet used them to further its purposes and that the charity’s 2016 accounts are overdue for submission to OSCR.  I can confirm that concerns have been raised with us about the charity and that we do have concerns about its operation.  We cannot however discuss these with a third party. 

Jennifer Keenlyside | Senior Inquiry Officer | 01382 346870 | jennifer.keenlyside@oscr.org.uk |

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## Bill Fernie

Time marches on but nothing seems to change except now in default with OSCR for returns - 
https://www.oscr.org.uk/about-charit...s?number=32787

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## Camra

> Time marches on but nothing seems to change except now in default with OSCR for returns - 
> https://www.oscr.org.uk/about-charit...s?number=32787



WADF Constitution Object as prosed on OSCR: 

The objects of the Fund shall be to promote for the benefit of the inhabitants of Wick and its environs without distinction of sex, sexuality, political , religious or other opinions by associating with the local statutory authorities, voluntary organisations and inhabitants in a common effort to advance education and to provide facilities, or assist in the provision of facilities , in the interest of social welfare for recreation and other leisure - time occupation so that their conditions of life may be improved.

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## Shaggy

I think it's about time people started banging on some doors and demanding their money back. This totally smacks of taking money under false pretences and is tantamount to fraud. not one single penny has been given out to any charity or group in Wick to date and meanwhile they have been sitting on the money for nearly *TEN YEARS NOW!!!!!*

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## Kevin Milkins

It does seem to have dragged on a bit, without starting to read this lengthy thread again i forgot what the question was.

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## Digger310

Being curious as to why this continues to rumble on, well obviously because no answers are being given, I had a look at OSCR  and apparently annual returns were issued on 26th November 2019. No statement of accounts is published by OSCR but income for the account was £2514 with no expenditure. In case anyone is interested.

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## aqua

I assume the figure of £2514 is entirely from interest on investments. As far as Im aware they havent engaged in public fundraising for many years now. When will their lack of action result in bobbies banging on their doors?

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## The Horseman

Anyone can put the pressure on with the above Charity!

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## The Horseman

I was hoping someone would do an update in this Fund.
At a time lime this,  their money would surely be welcomed!

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## Bill Fernie

Finally something may happen
Gordon Calder writing in the Groat
*Move to appoint legal official to manage affairs of Wick charity with £140,000 in bank*SCOTLAND's top civil court is being petitioned to appoint a legal official to manage the affairs of a Wick-based charity.
The move comes after an investigation by the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator (OSCR) following concerns raised by John Mowatt, vice-chairman of the Wick Academy Development Fund (WADF).
OSCR found that the fund – set up to help provide social, leisure and recreational facilities for the town and surrounding area, and registered as a charity in March 2002 – was not acting in "a manner consistent" with its stated aims.


Full story at
https://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk...n-bank-215303/

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## Bill Fernie

*Regulator Appoints Manager To Charity Wick Academy Development Fund As Part Of Decade-long Inquiry*The Scottish regulator has appointed a manager to take over a charity as part of a decade-long inquiry to ensure its trustees do not part with its property without consent.

The Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator opened an inquiry into Wick Academy Development Fund in September 2010 after concerns were raised about its public benefit, and a failure to make use of its accumulated funds.

Formed in 2002, the charity's purpose is to "provide facilities, or assist in the provision of facilities, in the interests of social welfare for recreation and other leisure-time occupation so that their conditions of life may be improved".

Up until April 2009, the charity raised £140,000 by selling lottery tickets in the Wick community. However, none of the money was ever spent, according to the OSCR.

Full details at https://caithness-business.co.uk/article/12944

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