# General > Birdwatching >  To all you bird experts........

## Humerous Vegetable

Can anybody please tell me what this bonny wee thing is? I found it strolling around on my drive on Sunday morning, pecking aound in the gravel. I have never seen anything like it before. It was quite fluffy, especially the red/orange bits, so I thought it might be a fledgling, but what of? It was a bit bigger than a sparrow and had quite a thin, black hooked beak - I can't remember what colour the legs were. I went back inside to get my other camera with the zoom lens and by the time I came back out it had disappeared.

----------


## kas

Not 100% sure but is it a common rosefinch? I have never seen one but it is the time of year when birds are on the move. It is a summer visitor to the continent.

----------


## kas

I was wrong, a mate thinks it is a crossbill.

----------


## Aaldtimer

Nah. Wouldn't agree with a crossbill. Male has a completely red head and undercarrage and no grey stripe on the body. The female has practically no red whatsoever. I've been puzzling about this, never heard of a common rosefinch in this country, but gonna Google it to have a look.

----------


## dafi

I dont know Auldtimer i would have to go for the common crossbill with the grey stripe and the red streching down the belly like that. I am sure the Rose finch has a light belly underneath from the breast down. The other thing i see is the bill in the second picture. This seems to have the over hanging upper mandbill so typical of the Crossbill family. So i guess i would plump for the crossbill camp. Its a shame really as a Rosebill would have been a super find for your garden list.

How long was it about for?

----------


## Kenn

I thought redpoll but the breast feathers seem a bit vivid.

----------


## Humerous Vegetable

I had to google rosefinches because I never heard of them, but going by the pictures I found online, I think the beak was different, quite thin and black, (and not crossed) and most of the red feathers/fluff were on the back, not the head.
I'm sorry the photos are so poor. As for how long it was around, I don't know. It was already there when I went outside, I probably spent about 5 minutes following it and taking the 2 photos. It had gone by the time I found my other camera and went back out.

----------


## the_count

Was a difficult one but i would say crossbill red rump would deffo place it in crossbills, rosefinch and grosbeak .. it lacks the white underbelly of the rosefinch so thats not it. it lacks the wing bars of the grosbeak and two barred crossbill so not either of them. beak is too narrow for parrot crossbill which narrows it down to the scottish and common crossbill. The scottish crossbills beak is slightly thicker than that of the bird shown so i would plump for the common crossbill and would add that its a male lol and he's had a bad "hair" day  ::

----------


## Aaldtimer

No, sorry, nothing like the illustration of a crossbill in my book. The whole head is red right down to half way down it's back with darker red eye patches and a white rump below the tail. The mystery goes on. Def not a rosebill either. ::

----------


## Iffy

A VERY bedraggled robin !!!!! LOL   ::  :: 

Sorry, I've no idea either....

----------


## Aaldtimer

[quote=Iffy;541650]A VERY bedraggled robin !!!!! LOL  ::  :: 

Many a true word spoken in jest! Looking at that grey stripe it's got.... ::

----------


## dragonfly

could it be a Linnet??  RSPB

----------


## anneoctober

Thats the best match to date ! What do our experts think?

----------


## nemosia

Hi H.V., 
Kas and Dafi are right. It's a crossbill.

----------


## Aaldtimer

> Hi H.V., 
> Kas and Dafi are right. It's a crossbill.


Well that's fine support for them nemosia, but are you going to give justification for your opinion?   ::

----------


## Ricco

Looks like a cross bill to me as well.  The beak is a bit of a giveaway.

----------


## kas

Is it ill?

 It looks pufffed up and not in a good way. Not getting off the subject in hand of ID but I always remember this greenfinch in our garden a few years back. I thought the shape and bad condition was similar?

----------


## nirofo

Definately a male Crossbill, more than likely a common although picture not good enough to be certain.  Bill doesn't look heavy enough for a Parrot or dare I say it , (Scottish).

_nirofo._

----------


## Aaldtimer

> Looks like a cross bill to me as well. The beak is a bit of a giveaway.


Nope, sorry , even on enlargement of the pic, can't see the "crossbill".
Not convinced.

 ::

----------


## Aaldtimer

> Is it ill?
> 
> It looks pufffed up and not in a good way. Not getting off the subject in hand of ID but I always remember this greenfinch in our garden a few years back. I thought the shape and bad condition was similar?


What makes you think it's the same one!
Maybe just having a "bad hair day"? ::

----------


## kas

I didnt think it was the same one, I just think the bird looks a bit worse for wear as did this one.

----------


## dafi

Auldtimer have a look in the Collins bird guide and compare pg 357 common crossbill to pg359 common rosefinch and pg 349 for linnet and common redpoll and see what you think of those for a comparison.

I would still go for the crossbill.

----------


## Aaldtimer

Sorry dafi, I don't have that book. I'm going by this site:-  http://www.rspb.org.uk/wildlife/bird...bill/index.asp 

and a Readers Digest birdbook.  :Smile:

----------


## dafi

Oh well here you go then , lets see if this works. the left is the crossbill and the right is the rosefinch. You can see how the grey is more defined in these ilustrations on the crossbill. And the light belly of the rosefinch. Ithink its easyer to start to pull them apart with these pictures for clues.....see what you think.

----------


## nirofo

The beak on the Rosefinch is much finer than a Crossbill as is easily seen on the photograph in question! Also the crossed mandible is quite discernable if you increase the size and enhance the photo.

_nirofo_.

----------


## Aaldtimer

So nirofo, you are of the opinion it's a Rosefinch yes?
I'm not sure by your post.
Personally, I don't have the expertise to enhance the pic, and I don't think any positive ident can come from those pics.
It's a pity they weren't taken against a different background, such as grass, where we might have got a better idea of the overall bird, the notch of the tail for instance. It just looks too "round" for me. 
Maybe it's just these old eyes of mine! :: 
The Jury is still out for me! ::

----------


## nirofo

No, what I'm saying is the beak of the Rosefinch is finer than that of the Crossbill, the bird in the photo has a much heavier bill than the Rosefinch, which can quite easily be seen if you blow up the picture and enhance it.  You can also see that the bill is crossed over!

_nirofo._

----------


## Humerous Vegetable

> It's a pity they weren't taken against a different background, such as grass, where we might have got a better idea of the overall bird, the notch of the tail for instance. It just looks too "round" for me.


Silly me! I should've just shot it and stuck it in a wee chair on the lawn, with a cocktail umbrella and sunglasses.
I would like to thank the *real* experts on here for their help and information on this bird - I think I have learned quite a lot, which was the point of asking the question in the 1st place.

----------


## Aaldtimer

> I didnt think it was the same one, I just think the bird looks a bit worse for wear as did this one.


Ah, sorry Kas, I thought you were going in another direction. Didn't realise you were talking about the original bird. ::

----------


## Aaldtimer

> No, what I'm saying is the beak of the Rosefinch is finer than that of the Crossbill, the bird in the photo has a much heavier bill than the Rosefinch, which can quite easily be seen if you blow up the picture and enhance it. You can also see that the bill is crossed over!
> 
> _nirofo._


OK, thanks nirofo for that, just a wee bit confused.
Could you perhaps do the enhancing and re-post the pic as I don't have that expertise.
I'm having a wee bit of a problem with my eyes at the moment, cataract prob in one eye, and it's a struggle ! ::

----------


## Aaldtimer

> Silly me! I should've just shot it and stuck it in a wee chair on the lawn, with a cocktail umbrella and sunglasses.
> I would like to thank the *real* experts on here for their help and information on this bird - I think I have learned quite a lot, which was the point of asking the question in the 1st place.


Oh well, hush my mouth for trying to help at all!

Sorry, I never claimed to be a *real* expert, just an enthusiast of 50+ years standing!

Don't think I'll bother with any of your queries in future! :: 

Not very humorous at all! ::

----------

