# General > General >  Taic dhan Gaidheal.

## Each

Tha cuid a gearran mun Gaidhlig agus deamocrasaidh…

Cha teid mi an sas ann an deasbaid gorrach mun soidhnichean rathaid, ann an aite na sin, tha facail no dha agam son a toirt taic dhan Ghàidheil a measg na gall – chan eil sinn nar aonar, tha caraidean gu leòr againn.

Thàinig a mach aithisg air an iomadh na luchd amharc a cumail leis a BhBC Alba. As dèidh bliadhna, a rèir “an Herald”, tha an àireamhan fhathast aig 220,000. (12%). Thuirt an aon paipear naidheachd, anns an pìos air a sgrìobhadh a mhìos sa chaidh, gu bheil an àireamhan a luchd amharc aig STV a nis aig 320,000 (no 18%). Aig an aon am, fhuair an prìomh clàr telebhisean ann an Alba, “Reporting Scotland” earrainn na luchd amharc aig 440,000. (24% aig ire abhaisteach)

Se tri puingean chudthromach a th’agam dhuibh…

Tha e soilleir gu bheil ùidh agus taic a measg a mhòr cuid na muinntir na dùthcha air thaobh na Gàidhlig. Se fianais air leth a th’ann air sgath s gu bheil e an roghainn aig an luchd amharc fhèin son a choimhead air BBC Alba nan saor thoileach. Na di chuimhnich gu bheil BBC Alba ri fhaotainn air saideal a mhàin an drasda agus chan eil cothrom aig iomadach Gaidheal ga fhaicinn fhathast.

Rinn an stèiseanan nàiseanta (BBC 1 & STV/ITV) a gnothach leis an taic bhon clàran a dol a mach dhan UK air fad, chan ann leis an clàran ionadail a mhàin mar a tha e aig BBC Alba.

Bhuannaich an stèiseanan nàiseanta (BBC 1 & STV/ITV) gu mor bhon buidseadan tòrr nas motha na tha aig BBC Alba.

Se mo bheachdsa co dhiù – gu bheil taic aig a mhor cuid na muinntir na dùthcha air a chanan agus mar sin, rinn an riaghaltas agus an chomhairle ceart a toirt taic dhan cànan. 
Bith cuid a gearran gu brath tuilleadh, ach s’e seo deamocrasaidh dhuibh.

_The numbers of viewer continuing to watch BBC Alba, privately in the own home and of their own free choice, provides compelling evidence that there is very significant interest and support for the Gaidhlig amongst the population of Scotland. In my view this justifies the cross party support it receives within the Scottish Government and Highland Council and the policies being implemented._

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## Abewsed

An cnocan, an cnocan, ars a chailleach gu leodach, far an do chaill mi mo Ghaidhlig, s nach dfhuair mi mo Bheurla.

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## Each

Se deagh chomhairle anns an seanfacal suid, gu teageamh.

Ach saoilidh mi nach eil thu ga thuigsinn ceart, gu araid as de na thuirt thu anns an snathaid eile mun soidhnichean rathaid.

Se fealla-dha a th'ann air an dhaoine nach fhaicinn an luach anns an cultar aca fhein agus mar sin, ga thilg air falbh gun rud sam bith fhaighinn air a shon. Dhaoine truadh gun teagamh !

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## shazzap

> Tha cuid a gearran mun Gaidhlig agus deamocrasaidh
> 
> Cha teid mi an sas ann an deasbaid gorrach mun soidhnichean rathaid, ann an aite na sin, tha facail no dha agam son a toirt taic dhan Ghàidheil a measg na gall  chan eil sinn nar aonar, tha caraidean gu leòr againn.
> 
> Thàinig a mach aithisg air an iomadh na luchd amharc a cumail leis a BhBC Alba. As dèidh bliadhna, a rèir an Herald, tha an àireamhan fhathast aig 220,000. (12%). Thuirt an aon paipear naidheachd, anns an pìos air a sgrìobhadh a mhìos sa chaidh, gu bheil an àireamhan a luchd amharc aig STV a nis aig 320,000 (no 18%). Aig an aon am, fhuair an prìomh clàr telebhisean ann an Alba, Reporting Scotland earrainn na luchd amharc aig 440,000. (24% aig ire abhaisteach)
> 
> Se tri puingean chudthromach a thagam dhuibh
> 
> Tha e soilleir gu bheil ùidh agus taic a measg a mhòr cuid na muinntir na dùthcha air thaobh na Gàidhlig. Se fianais air leth a thann air sgath s gu bheil e an roghainn aig an luchd amharc fhèin son a choimhead air BBC Alba nan saor thoileach. Na di chuimhnich gu bheil BBC Alba ri fhaotainn air saideal a mhàin an drasda agus chan eil cothrom aig iomadach Gaidheal ga fhaicinn fhathast.
> ...





> An cnocan, an cnocan, ars a chailleach gu leodach, far an do chaill mi mo Ghaidhlig, s nach dfhuair mi mo Bheurla.


 
What????????????? ::

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## Invisible

> What?????????????



 Chan eil aon chànan gu leòr

: One language is never enough

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## shazzap

> Chan eil aon chànan gu leòr


Ha ha very funny lol :Grin: 
I know it's Gaelic......... just can't read it.

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## weeboyagee

> Tha cuid a gearran mun Gaidhlig agus deamocrasaidh


Agus bith iad fhathast a gearran ged nach eil iad a' tuigsinn!




> Thàinig a mach aithisg air an iomadh na luchd amharc a cumail leis a BhBC Alba. As dèidh bliadhna, a rèir an Herald, tha an àireamhan fhathast aig 220,000. (12%). Thuirt an aon paipear naidheachd, anns an pìos air a sgrìobhadh a mhìos sa chaidh, gu bheil an àireamhan a luchd amharc aig STV a nis aig 320,000 (no 18%). Aig an aon am, fhuair an prìomh clàr telebhisean ann an Alba, Reporting Scotland earrainn na luchd amharc aig 440,000. (24% aig ire abhaisteach)


'Eil fios agad mu dheidhinn na h-àireamhan airson Gallaibh?




> Tha e soilleir gu bheil ùidh agus taic a measg a mhòr cuid na muinntir na dùthcha air thaobh na Gàidhlig.


Ach chan eil na daoine ann an Gallaibh a smaoineachadh gu bheil sin soilleir a thaobh Gallaibh!  Sin an rud a charaid!




> Se mo bheachdsa co dhiù  gu bheil taic aig a mhor cuid na muinntir na dùthcha air a chanan agus mar sin, rinn an riaghaltas agus an chomhairle ceart a toirt taic dhan cànan


Stoch' gu bheil iad ceart a toirt taic dhan ar cànan ach a' bheil iad ceart a toirt taic dhan na soidhnichean rathaid agus gu h-airidh ann an Gallaibh - sin an ceist aig na Gallaich!  Ach chan eil sin an ceist agamsa ma tha thu gam thuigsinn  :Wink: 

WBG  ::

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## weeboyagee

> Chan eil aon chànan gu leòr


Gu dearbh fhèin!

WBG  ::

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## Each

WBG

Tha mi tuigsinn de thuirt thu, agus nach thuirt mi fhein an aon rud ann an snathaidean eile, air an bord seo agus buird eile.

Nan robh e direach mun Soidhnichean Rathaid bith rudan carran diofrichte, ach a reir na dh'leugh mi fhein air a bhord seo, tha feadhainn gu turr an aghaidh an canan fhein.

Carson am bith dhaione nan stri airson nas lugha na cultar ann an aite na barrachd ?

Sin an rud nach eil mi a tuigsinn ?  ::

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## Abewsed

Maybe there should be a Gaelic corner on the web for Caithness!

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## northener

Some sort of virus has attacked my computer. ::

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## weeboyagee

> Maybe there should be a Gaelic corner on the web for Caithness!


Seo an t-àite far bheil a h-uile daoine ann an Gallaibh a gobaireachd - le sin tha mi a smaoineachadh gu bheil ceàrn Gàidhlig againn an seo air an eadar-lìon!

WBG  ::

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## shazzap

> Chan eil aon chànan gu leòr
> 
> : One language is never enough


I only speak one, thats if you don't want to count the odd word in French, Spanish, German, Danish and Thai. And i do mean the odd word lol.

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## BINBOB

> Maybe there should be a Gaelic corner on the web for Caithness!


Absolutely agree. :Wink:

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## shazzap

Is it easy to learn?

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## Kodiak

โดยส่วนตัวแล้วผมคิดว่านี่เป็นความสมบูรณ์ที่ทำการไป  รษณีย์เปล่าเปลืองเวลา  นี่เป็นเพราะคนส่วนใหญ่ไม่มีความคิดว่าคุณจะไปที่เกี  ่ยวกับและไม่สามารถตกลงกันหรือ disaggre กับคุณแล้ว  เมื่อมันเป็นกรณีที่แล้วก็มีการถกเถียงกันได้ไม  ่มี.  อย่างที่ผมพูดอย่างไร้จุดหมาย. 

This is just my personal opinion.

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## shazzap

> โดยส่วนตัวแล้วผมคิดว่านี่เป็นความสมบูรณ์ที่ทำการไป  รษณีย์เปล่าเปลืองเวลา นี่เป็นเพราะคนส่วนใหญ่ไม่มีความคิดว่าคุณจะไปที่เกี  ่ยวกับและไม่สามารถตกลงกันหรือ disaggre กับคุณแล้ว เมื่อมันเป็นกรณีที่แล้วก็มีการถกเถียงกันได้ไม  ่มี. อย่างที่ผมพูดอย่างไร้จุดหมาย. 
> 
> This is just my personal opinion.


Lol was that for me Kodiak?

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## Cedric Farthsbottom III

There's nothing wrong with a thread in gaelic on the org as long as:

a)The moderators can speak gaelic.To show that no swear words or biast is being shown.

b)see a ::  ::

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## Serenity

Languages besides "English" should not be allowed on the forum. How do we know if any rules are broken? Are the mods now meant to be multi-lingual?

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## Each

Cuir e iognadh orm an cealgairachd a tighinn bho cuid.

Air snathaid eile bhruidhinn mu cultar eile, bith iad a gearran mun gran-cinneadh air a bord seo nan robh an aon rud a thachairt,

Ach air ais dhan priomh amas son a snathaid seo, son a toirt misneach dhan gaidheal agus a cumail nar cuimhne gu bheal caraidhean againn ameasg na mor cuid na dhaoine, ge boill leis an fuaim laidir na tha an cuid a togail. 

_Its amazing what some will say to and about gaels, yet wouldn't dream of saying the same to or about others with different cultural backgrounds !_

__

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## Cedric Farthsbottom III

> Cuir e iognadh orm an cealgairachd a tighinn bho cuid.
> 
> Air snathaid eile bhruidhinn mu cultar eile, bith iad a gearran mun gran-cinneadh air a bord seo nan robh an aon rud a thachairt,
> 
> Ach air ais dhan priomh amas son a snathaid seo, son a toirt misneach dhan gaidheal agus a cumail nar cuimhne gu bheal caraidhean againn ameasg na mor cuid na dhaoine, ge boill leis an fuaim laidir na tha an cuid a togail. 
> 
> _Its amazing what some will say to and about gaels, yet wouldn't dream of saying the same to or about others with different cultural backgrounds !_
> 
> __


This isnae a gael site,there are probably some out there.This is an English speaking forum,ye want proof.Why are ye using English subtitles at the bottom of some of your posts :Grin:

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## gleeber

Its an interesting tactic the laddies are using. Fair play. I hope their enterprise has its desired effect, whatever that may be.

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## Cedric Farthsbottom III

> Its an interesting tactic the laddies are using. Fair play. I hope their enterprise has its desired effect, whatever that may be.


It is an interesting tactic,gleeber.I have seen a couple of good friends getting banned off here,for asking a question that made them seem like troublemakers.This thread,shows that there is double standards in this place.Kodiak has got it spot on.

So my contribution is Ich Deich,broon Keich,tiddidly dum fart ::

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## northener

> Its an interesting tactic the laddies are using. Fair play. I hope their enterprise has its desired effect, whatever that may be.


I believe the hope is that it will somehow prove that Gaelic is a language that has its' place on the Caithness Forum (which I wholly agree with) and, I would guess, that it will somehow prove that seeing as Gaelic is being spoken on this site - it somehow justifies the introduction of Gaelic roadsigns into Caithness (which I wholly disagree with).
 :: 

Anyway, as WBG as already said (in English, anyway, he may have said it in Gaelic too...but I wouldn't know), this is becoming a tedious subject. 

But.........

[Rant=]

The ScotchNaziParty is determined to steamroller any opposition to it's skewed Highland and Western Isles orientated view of what 'Scotland' should be as a brand. Note the use of the word 'brand'. :: 

Resistance is futile...you will be assimilated into a farcical representation of Scotland as one nation under a Gaelic banner whether you like it or not.

Don yer ginger wigs* and ersatz Victorian tartans, shout 'Hoots Mon', eat more neeps and shout "Freedom! and "Braveheart!" every time someone mentions Wallace/Bannockburn/Fitba'/Highland Clearances/The Bruce/River City or Rab C Nesbitt. 

For this will be the One True Path for Scotchland.

My arse.
[/rant]




*Those of you who are already ginger will still be required to wear ginger wigs as part of the SNPs' standardised Scotchperson Intiative.

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## Cedric Farthsbottom III

> I believe the hope is that it will somehow prove that Gaelic is a language that has its' place on the Caithness Forum (which I wholly agree with) and, I would guess, that it will somehow prove that seeing as Gaelic is being spoken on this site - it somehow justifies the introduction of Gaelic roadsigns into Caithness (which I wholly disagree with).
> 
> 
> Anyway, as WBG as already said (in English, anyway, he may have said it in Gaelic too...but I wouldn't know), this is becoming a tedious subject. 
> 
> But.........
> 
> [Rant=]
> 
> ...


No the true path is for The Scottish Education Department to bring Gaelic into primary school and secondary.For,unless yer mither and faither speak gaelic,ye won't learn it.Gaelic in Ayrshire is seen as a Highland language.If the Scottish Education Department makes it compulsory to take Gaelic.I can tell ye that a pomme is an apple in French,I couldnae tell ye what the Gaelic equivalent is.Weeboygee whits an apple in gaelic,cos ye will have taught me more than I learnt at school.By the way,off topic has any orgers benefitted from learning French at school? :Smile:

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## compo

why hasnt this thread been moved

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## Rheghead

keep the gaelic coming, having interest reading it.

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## northener

> No the true path is for The Scottish Education Department to bring Gaelic into primary school and secondary.For,unless yer mither and faither speak gaelic,ye won't learn it.Gaelic in Ayrshire is seen as a Highland language.If the Scottish Education Depatment makes it compulsory to take Gaelic.I can tell ye that a pomme is an apple in French,I couldnae tell ye what the Gaelic equivalent is.Weeboygee whits an apple in gaelic,cos ye will have taught me more than I learnt at school.By the way,off topic has any orgers benefitted from learning French at school?


Oui! Je suis une canard. Ouvre le porte Monsieur!

Seriously though, I believe that the Gaelic language should be introduced into schools - as long as there is a choice of a mainstream European language too. I studied German from the age of about 8 and French (boring) from the age of 11. I'd forgotten most of it by my late teens - but it's never taken me long to get back into the (very basic) swing of it when in France or Germany.

The Gaelic language  language will never help you communicate with those outside Scotland (apart from Oireland) whereas an European language will.

Do both.

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## northener

> why hasnt this thread been moved


 
where to? ::

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## Cedric Farthsbottom III

> Oui! Je suis une canard. Ouvre le porte Monsieur!
> 
> Seriously though, I believe that the Gaelic language should be introduced into schools - as long as there is a choice of a mainstream European language too. I studied German from the age of about 8 and French (boring) from the age of 11. I'd forgotten most of it by my late teens - but it's never taken me long to get back into the (very basic) swing of it when in France or Germany.
> 
> The Gaelic language language will never help you communicate with those outside Scotland (apart from Oireland) whereas an European language will.
> 
> Do both.


So yer a duck in French.Wits the gaelic equivalent?Don't know.Ma school taught me a foreign language that I have never used since.Yet they could have spent four years teaching me Gaelic. :Smile:

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## northener

> So yer a duck in French.Wits the gaelic equivalent?Don't know.Ma school taught me a foreign language that I have never used since.Yet they could have spent four years teaching me Gaelic.


Your answer destroys your stance, Sir. You know that I am a duck, so all that tuition has borne fruit...... :Wink:

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## unicorn

I see nothing in the rules that say you cannot post in gaelic, it is the usual noses bothering people so they make a fuss. 
If you don't understand it pass it by but don't go shouting for it to be removed.

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## Serenity

Can I please ask the OP what is the point of posting something on a forum that only a very small minority will be able to understand?

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## unicorn

There are often post the majority don't understand but it doesn't stop people taking part  ::

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## Serenity

> I see nothing in the rules that say you cannot post in gaelic, it is the usual noses bothering people so they make a fuss. 
> If you don't understand it pass it by but don't go shouting for it to be removed.


There is nothing in the rules against posting in gaelic but there are a lot of rules against other things. How do the mods know this doesn't go against any of them? This is my main point.

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## golach

> There is nothing in the rules against posting in gaelic but there are a lot of rules against other things. How do the mods know this doesn't go against any of them? This is my main point.


What make you think that the Moderators are not fluent gaelic speakers ?  :Smile: 
Well done WBG for creating a lot of curiosity and humour ::

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## Kirdon

> Oui! Je suis une canard. Ouvre le porte Monsieur!
> 
> Seriously though, I believe that the Gaelic language should be introduced into schools - as long as there is a choice of a mainstream European language too. I studied German from the age of about 8 and French (boring) from the age of 11. I'd forgotten most of it by my late teens - but it's never taken me long to get back into the (very basic) swing of it when in France or Germany.
> 
> The Gaelic language  language will never help you communicate with those outside Scotland (apart from Oireland) whereas an European language will.
> 
> Do both.


Should it be taught in just Scottish schools or all british schools?. And as for french WHY!! french in school. Spanish would be better as you could at least make yourself understood in a variety of countries then.  Anyway ask for a beer in any bar in any civilised country and you will be understood so who needs different language's.

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## Serenity

> What make you think that the Moderators are not fluent gaelic speakers ? 
> Well done WBG for creating a lot of curiosity and humour


I don't know either way. I have actually asked them regarding this thread but they have not got back to me yet. 

But it doesn't matter. If you set a precedent saying Gaelic can be used on the forum then why can't ANY language be used?

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## Kirdon

> So yer a duck in French.Wits the gaelic equivalent?Don't know.Ma school taught me a foreign language that I have never used since.Yet they could have spent four years teaching me Gaelic.


And as for you Cedric, when I speak to you I stuggle with that foreign language you speak and claim is scottish. And what's this rubbish about you going to school and getting an education, "I don't believe it".

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## Serenity

> Should it be taught in just Scottish schools or all british schools?. And as for french WHY!! french in school. Spanish would be better as you could at least make yourself understood in a variety of countries then.  Anyway ask for a beer in any bar in any civilised country and you will be understood so who needs different language's.


I hated French in school and the only other option was German  ::  Would have liked Chinese or Latin. Both way more useful.

If the Scottish government made it compulsory to learn Gaelic I would probably emigrate.

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## Tom Cornwall

> Maybe there should be a Gaelic corner on the web for Caithness!


and let's hope that's where it ends up....forgotten, like Latin ...something no-one uses anymore

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## Serenity

> and let's hope that's where it ends up....forgotten, like Latin ...something no-one uses anymore


I think you will find you use latin a lot more than anyone will ever use Gaelic. Maybe not directly.

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## shazzap

Well i think every body should just

*黙る   *

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## northener

Bearing in mind the worlds language speakers are rated thus:


*Mandarin Chinese* (836 million)*Hindi* (333 million)*Spanish* (332 million)*English* (322 million)*Bengali* (189 million)*Arabic* (186 million)*Russian* (170 million)*Portuguese* (170 million)*Japanese* (125 million)*German* (98 million)*French* (72 million)*Gaelic* (3 people in Bettyhill)We'd all be better off learning Chinese! ::

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## Phill

> We'd all be better off learning Chinese!



That's easy: 10, 94 & 242

 :Wink:

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## crayola

> Bearing in mind the worlds language speakers are rated thus:
> 
> 
> *Mandarin Chinese* (836 million)*Hindi* (333 million)*Spanish* (332 million)*English* (322 million)*Bengali* (189 million)*Arabic* (186 million)*Russian* (170 million)*Portuguese* (170 million)*Japanese* (125 million)*German* (98 million)*French* (72 million)*Gaelic* (3 people in Bettyhill)
> 
> We'd all be better off learning Chinese!


Yes but you have to get the right one. Wouldn't most ethnic Chinese in Britain be totally lost if you spoke to them in Mandarin?

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## northener

Don't know why my cut and paste bit went bonkers, but ah've fixed it now.

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## northener

> Yes but you have to get the right one. Wouldn't most ethnic Chinese in Britain be totally lost if you spoke to them in Mandarin?


This is true. 
I can actually swear in Chinese (thanks to some mates who served on the RN Hong Kong squadron), yet sometimes I get blank looks. So you have to get the right Chinese language....

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## Leanne

> We'd all be better off learning Chinese!


I tried - not as easy at all! It is a very tonal language and I am tone deaf (as anyone who has heard me on karaoke will confirm  :Wink:  ). I found it really really hard and as a result have not included it in my list  ::

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## crayola

I too have tried learning a bit of Chinese and got nowhere because I could neither discern nor distinguish the different tones. I was taught by a native Min speaker who also spoke Cantonese.

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## Rheghead

tha mi a fhoureach ann am Ghailibh agus prowd, best check that spelling lol ::

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## Moira

> There are often post the majority don't understand but it doesn't stop people taking part


True.

The other thing is, perhaps Bill Fernie has secured some of the "ring-fenced" money available to send all the Mods on Gaelic Language courses.

Een enkel gedachte. Een enkel gedachte. 

 :Grin:

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## Leanne

> tha mi a fhoureach ann am Ghailibh agus prowd, best check that spelling lol


Why does that make sense to me and I don't speak Gaelic?

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## weeboyagee

> Can I please ask the OP what is the point of posting something on a forum that only a very small minority will be able to understand?


Maybe it's only for the small minority to understand?  :Wink: 

WBG  ::

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## northener

> Maybe it's only for the small minority to understand? 
> 
> WBG


Aha! Proof indeed that there is nefarious goings-on in Gaeldom!  :: 

I bet they've got a secret handshake too. And antlers.....uh, sorry, caber feidh.

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## weeboyagee

> tha mi a fhoureach ann am Ghailibh agus prowd, best check that spelling lol


Tha mi a fuireach ann an Gallaibh!  Sin de bha thu a' ciallachadh!  Ach, 's math rinn thu co-dhiu!

WBG  ::

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## weeboyagee

> Aha! Proof indeed that there is nefarious goings-on in Gaeldom! 
> 
> I bet they've got a secret handshake too. And antlers.....uh, sorry, caber feidh.


I so tried to give you good rep TWICE tonight for having my sides in stitches! Pity it doesn't let you - ach 's math a rinn thusa cuideachd!  Dun Eidean a maireach - tha mi a falbh trath sa mhadainn!

Tiors - gus a maireach! (golach agus canuck!)

WBG  ::

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## Cedric Farthsbottom III

> And as for you Cedric, when I speak to you I stuggle with that foreign language you speak and claim is scottish. And what's this rubbish about you going to school and getting an education, "I don't believe it".


 :: Aye ma accent is rare.Now have decided that since the Scottish Education Department didnae want tae dae it,I'm gonnae try it for masel.Just spent the weekend on BBC ALBA "beag air bheag".Learning gaelic,little by little.Sat ma first unit test this morning 9/10.Ma education never stops,always willing to give anything a shot. :Smile:

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## Turquoise

Well, on my first trip to Tenerife, I was reliably informed that there was no need to speak Spanish to the Locals as they "all speak English".  How true I thought after my first couple of days of excitedly asking various Spanish phrases and being chuckled at by said Locals.

However, my friend and I were mugged and had our apartment key stolen.  My friend went to speak to the Night Porter, who said as we didn't have our key, we wouldn't be let back into our room until morning and we'd have to sleep in reception as he didn't speak English.

Cue friend, grabs me to speak to him in Spanish, as learned at school:

Following is English translation...

Me: I don't have my key because the men in the street (gestured grabbing motion) my bag

NP: Ah, yes, hold on I'll just let you into your room.

Me:  How do you say 'stolen' in Spanish?

NP: Robador...you say "Me han robado mi bolsa"

Me:  I thought you spoke no English?

NP: I just pretend because I can't be bothered with the ignorant British who don't bother to attempt to speak Spanish.

By the next morning I was spoken to in Spanish by all the staff...

Lesson learned.

----------


## Leanne

> NP: I just pretend because I can't be bothered with the ignorant British who don't bother to attempt to speak Spanish.
> 
> By the next morning I was spoken to in Spanish by all the staff...
> 
> Lesson learned.


I have an experience of the other side of that coin... I went into a restaurant and spoke to the waiter in Spanish to place my order. He acted extremely offended and stated "I _do_ speak English!". I apologised (in Spanish) that i didn't mean to offend him but I holiday in Spain as I like speaking Spanish. We struck up a conversation and it seems some workers get offended when we speak in that stupid accent that we do when speaking english to a Spaniard and equally so when they perceive that us speaking to them in Spanish means that we think they are uneducated and can't speak English.

The thing that narks me is when you speak to someone in their own language and they answer you in English - what is all that about?

----------


## tonkatojo

> I believe the hope is that it will somehow prove that Gaelic is a language that has its' place on the Caithness Forum (which I wholly agree with) and, I would guess, that it will somehow prove that seeing as Gaelic is being spoken on this site - it somehow justifies the introduction of Gaelic roadsigns into Caithness (which I wholly disagree with).
> 
> 
> Anyway, as WBG as already said (in English, anyway, he may have said it in Gaelic too...but I wouldn't know), this is becoming a tedious subject. 
> 
> But.........
> 
> [Rant=]
> 
> ...



You missed out Russ Abbot with his " see you Jimmy ".  :Wink:

----------


## weeboyagee

> I have an experience of the other side of that coin... I went into a restaurant and spoke to the waiter in Spanish to place my order. He acted extremely offended and stated "I _do_ speak English!". I apologised (in Spanish) that i didn't mean to offend him but I holiday in Spain as I like speaking Spanish. We struck up a conversation and it seems some workers get offended when we speak in that stupid accent that we do when speaking english to a Spaniard and equally so when they perceive that us speaking to them in Spanish means that we think they are uneducated and can't speak English.
> 
> The thing that narks me is when you speak to someone in their own language and they answer you in English - what is all that about?


Same in Gaelic - it took a while for me to be accepted speaking Gaelic in a native and fluent situation away from the Mod - only because they knew I was a learner.  What got them speaking to me faster was the fact that I wasn't a Gaelic Class learner (short course of 6 weeks back in 1989!!!!) but learned all mine with native fluent speakers - so don't have a learner accent - the more that I got to know folk, the more they accepted it - to the point that now it hardly seems to bother them at all - and most know I'm a learner (mistakes, warts and all!).

Germany - was different.  My first visit to Germany and the server at the airport restaurant wouldn't believe I was from Scotland.  The only reason she found out I was from Scotland was because she thought I was a local working in the airport and did I qualify for staff discount.  When I told the party who I was travelling with (all from UK and I was the only German speaker) what had happened they all laughed thinking it hilarious.  When I asked them why they found it funny they said that it served me right for being so smart - because standing with all of them in the queue, I was the only one that spoke German when it came to being served.  Who was the laugh on?  Them - they were the only ones to know I wasn't German.  How ignorant.

Previous trip to Germany - friend comes up to me in a different airport and after speaking English (as best he could to non-English speaking Germans!) he asked me how to ask for a coffee in German.  I told him (accent and all).  He practised it a bit before finally getting the courage up to do it.  He did, I watched him, the lady didn't bat an eye lid, served him the coffee, asked for the money (he didn't understand it but could see the price written on the board!!!) and gave him the change.  How much more was he accepted in their society we'll never know - it was so natural.  But how much less when we speak in English with no effort to at least try and meet the non-English speaker on their level.  Not because they don't speak English but because it is such a statement to say that we really show respect for their culture.  He came back to the table - and said how much he had his eyes opened to the fact that speaking the first language of other people definitely opens doors.

An fhìrinn a bh' aige!  _Ain't dat da truth!_

WBG  ::

----------


## Dog-eared

If anyone wants this thread moved or doesn't agree with its existence , there's a simple answer.
If you don't like a thread, go to another one that pleases you. There are plenty to choose from !!  ::

----------


## PantsMAN

> If anyone wants this thread moved or doesn't agree with its existence , there's a simple answer.
> If you don't like a thread, go to another one that pleases you. There are plenty to choose from !!


Well said, this is an excellent thread and should absolutely not be moved or deleted.

And as for those who moan about one of the indigenous Scots languages - tough!!

Glayva!

----------


## chef4celebrations

here here, and as a man from barra i also understand the why we want the language to carry on, but i also speak basic spanish and i read write and speak fluent german, and i must agree with WBG 100%

----------


## northener

I always try and make an effort to speak the 'local' language when abroad. Invariably I get it wrong, but nobody seems to mind, in fact the locals seem to find it very entertaining. ::

----------


## cuddlepop

I've found this lanuage just too difficult to learn then again I flunked French too so maybe lanuages are just not for me.

Still think it should be a choice and not compulsory to learn.
Its just goes to show you how times have changed as when my X's father went to school he was belted for speaking gaelic and was only allowed to speak English,which he had to quickly learn. :: 

What annoys the hell out of me though is when gaelic speakers who a minute ago were speaking English talk in gaelic like its a "secret" conversation and then revert back to English;that in my opinion is just plan rude. ::

----------


## weeboyagee

> What annoys the hell out of me though is when gaelic speakers who a minute ago were speaking English talk in gaelic like its a "secret" conversation and then revert back to English;that in my opinion is just plan rude.


Are you in the conversation when this happens or just somewhere in the vicinity?

I frequently speak in Gaelic whilst English speakers are in the room but not in my company or in my conversation.

The other day I was in the Royal Hotel and there were two people who were in the lounge, not in our company, but given our conversation, me and the other person didn't want them to know what we were saying.  We changed from English into Gaelic.  If the other folks noticed the difference, why should it bother them - it was none of their business.  Not rude, just none of their business.  

Gone are the days when we should *not* speak Gaelic because there are English speakers in the vicinity.  

In Lewis two old wifies will speak in Gaelic on the bus supposing there is no-one else speaking Gaelic - and being Lewis they will break into English and then back into Gaelic and then into English again - depending if they want folk to understand or not, or plain habit.  Their choice - why should I, even if I wasn't a Gaelic speaker, think that to be rude?  The truth is, it's because you've either got an inferiority complex, miffed that you can't speak more than one language or you're down right nosey  :Wink: 

And cuddlepop - all the more difficult to believe from you given your location as the ISLE OF SKYE!!!!  Do you realise why some of the Gaelic speaking people in Skye probably do what you are saying they do?  That's like having the same attitude on a bus in Germany with English speaking Germans that go into German when they don't want you, the English speaker, to understand what they are saying!  Rude?  Hmmmm,........ lack of appreciation on the part of the English speaker!

WBG  ::

----------


## rich

What's the use of foreign languages?

As one who has always endorsed Chinese road signs in the North of Scotland I thought I would take alook at the bigger picture in these cosmopolitan times.

Canada is an instructive case.

If you are emigrating to Canada, knowing French will give you a lot of points.
But so would knowing Ojibway or Cree. The Canadian first nations are dwindling in numbers, the French are reproducing mightily but the French are also drowning in French literature. 

So the choice is yours. If you want to become a Canadian you can either feign a terrific interest in birch bark  canoes which will surely delight the emigration officials. Or you can smile charmingly and speak lots of French - raising the suspicion that you are going to waste everyone's time by reading Proust and running up an immense overdrafts in overdue books at the library.

My cubicle-mate over the way has a different take on thngs. She says foreign languages are a turn on. Any foregn language will do, she says. Foreign-ness ensures an element of mystery in the  subsequent relationship.

 I agree. 

But we can't rule out the possibility that it could make things worse than they might have been.

 Personally speaking I can tell you my wife and I are perpetually baffled by each other and yet we both speak English. Were either one of us to have some sort of traffic accident where we lost the power of understanding English  - well I can tell you our  life  together might be a lot more placid.

Come on then Orgers - it is time to break out off the prison of unilingualism.  Let us communciate with the whole world.

Using sign language, of course.

----------


## northener

> .....
> 
> .... If you want to become a Canadian you can either feign a terrific interest in birch bark canoes which will surely delight the emigration officials. ..........


Actually, I'm very interested in Birch bark canoes. Any chance of letting me live in Halifax, N.S? ::

----------


## Leanne

> What annoys the hell out of me though is when gaelic speakers who a minute ago were speaking English talk in gaelic like its a "secret" conversation and then revert back to English;that in my opinion is just plan rude.


I love being able to speak Welsh for this very reason - I love the reactions when they go into the cliquey huddle and it doesn't work...

If it were done against a minority group it would be classed as racism  ::  The non-speaker is deliberately being excluded from society in the instance that it happens.

Fair enough if the people are speaking gaelic first but for them to switch to deliberately exclude someone goes past rude IMO...

----------


## weeboyagee

> I love being able to speak Welsh for this very reason - I love the reactions when they go into the cliquey huddle and it doesn't work...
> 
> If it were done against a minority group it would be classed as racism  The non-speaker is deliberately being excluded from society in the instance that it happens.
> 
> Fair enough if the people are speaking gaelic first but for them to switch to deliberately exclude someone goes past rude IMO...


I don't quite understand what you are getting at?  Are you saying you speak Welsh when you hear a group of folks switch to Gaelic?

The non-speaker of Gaelic is deliberately being excluded from society the instance it happens?

If non Gaelic speakers are in the vicinity but not part of the company - why would you think it is rude?  It's got sod all to do with them what language is spoken.  I don't think it rude when being served by a Polish person in English and when they refer or confer with a fellow Polish server or worker, they speak Polish.  The Welsh at the Eisteddfod would happily switch to Welsh to POSITIVELY exclude anyone and everyone that isn't a Welsh speaker - I know - I've been there - but I don't think it rude if I'm in the vicinity and not part of the conversation or company.

Diolch

WBG  ::

----------


## Leanne

> I don't quite understand what you are getting at?  Are you saying you speak Welsh when you hear a group of folks switch to Gaelic?


I don't speak the dialect of Gaelic spoken up here, but I do however speak Welsh and frequently holiday in Wales. (edit - however judging from what I can understand on this thread they aren't too dissimilar)




> If non Gaelic speakers are in the vicinity but not part of the company - why would you think it is rude?


It isn't when people speak Gaelic, it is when people are speaking to each other in English and then deliberately swap to gaelic to exclude a non-gaelic speaker - for example in a shop. It is a form of discrimination - it is more than just rude.

----------


## Kenn

Sorry, am I missing some thing here? 
If it is discrimination to speak in a foreign or minority language when non speakers are present, then it would follow that all visitors to these shores however good their language skills should not revert to their native language when talking amongst themselves or that when british people travel they should only speak the language of what ever country they happen to be in.
I find it neither rude or offensive when people speak a different language to myself and have been known to switch languages in the middle of a conversation when I know that those within my social group will understand.

----------


## ywindythesecond

> Are you in the conversation when this happens or just somewhere in the vicinity?
> 
> I frequently speak in Gaelic whilst English speakers are in the room but not in my company or in my conversation.
> 
> The other day I was in the Royal Hotel and there were two people who were in the lounge, not in our company, but given our conversation, me and the other person didn't want them to know what we were saying. We changed from English into Gaelic. If the other folks noticed the difference, why should it bother them - it was none of their business. Not rude, just none of their business. 
> 
> WBG


WBG Don't you realise that what you describe is the same as noticing the people around you and carrying on your conversation in a whisper behind your hand? 
It shows no respect for people around you. If you want to have a conversation that no-one can hear, then go somewhere where no-one can hear it.
Many years ago I walked into the Sligachan Hotel bar and after a brief pause the conversation restarted in Gaelic.
More recently, my wife joined a supermarket queue in Carmarthen in South Wales and the welsh conversation which was in progress converted to English so she was not excluded.

Tha Seamus ag iasgath! Tha mi fuar agus fluich!
ywy2

----------


## cuddlepop

> WBG Don't you realise that what you describe is the same as noticing the people around you and carrying on your conversation in a whisper behind your hand? 
> It shows no respect for people around you. If you want to have a conversation that no-one can hear, then go somewhere where no-one can hear it.
> Many years ago I walked into the Sligachan Hotel bar and after a brief pause the conversation restarted in Gaelic.
> More recently, my wife joined a supermarket queue in Carmarthen in South Wales and the welsh conversation which was in progress converted to English so she was not excluded.
> 
> Tha Seamus ag iasgath! Tha mi fuar agus fluich!
> 
> 
> ywy2


They still do that,especially in the pubs which regardless what WBG says is rude. ::

----------


## golach

> Many years ago I walked into the Sligachan Hotel bar and after a brief pause the conversation restarted in Gaelic.
> More recently, my wife joined a supermarket queue in Carmarthen in South Wales and the welsh conversation which was in progress converted to English so she was not excluded.
> 
> Tha Seamus ag iasgath! Tha mi fuar agus fluich!
> ywy2


I cannot see what the fuss is about, having travelled a fair bit abroad in my time, and walked into many differing establishments, be they bars, hotels or supermarkets, and you get the initial silence, then the natives start chatting to each other in their native tongue, does that offend you?
I see nothing wrong with that, more often than enough my limited knowledge of foreign tongues leads me to be able to order 2 beers please, and some other well know Matelot universal sayings for other basic needs in a foreign land. :: 
WBG can you teach me to ask for 2 beers please in Gaelic, I would be grateful.

----------


## tootler

Interesting thread.  I can see both sides of the argument.

What I definitely DO know, WBG, is that today I went, in an effort to try to be supportive of you and yours, to the Mod 2010 Facebook page, fully intending to join up and show folk that we Caithness based musicians are really looking forward to the Mod and all the cultural inspiration it brings.  I was genuinely disappointed to discover that such a tiny percentage of it was actually in English and such a huge percentage in Gaelic that I didn't know what it was about, so I felt a bit excluded and I didn't join... yet.

Tricky problem you've got there, mate.  :Wink:

----------


## Leanne

> I cannot see what the fuss is about, having travelled a fair bit abroad in my time, and walked into many differing establishments, be they bars, hotels or supermarkets, and you get the initial silence, then the natives start chatting to each other in their native tongue, does that offend you?


I think you missed my point - I have no problem with that. The problem is when people are initially speaking english but then switch on the arrival of an undesirable. As ywindythesecond said (and I don't know why i didn't think to put it like this). It is like speaking normally then whispering behind your hand to exclude someone. At very least it is childish and rude, on the other hand it could also be classed as racism.

----------


## peter macdonald

Golach Cant help with Gaelic but here is some help for you if you perchance wander into a bar in Sweden ..Twa stor stark tack      (twa pronounced tvo)
I really dont understand why people get annoyed about people speaking languages in their presence which they cant understand .I have been in company with WBG and his mates in the Smiddy Inn  when they are speaking Gaelic and all it does is make me wish I had the time to learn the language.  WBG has been around when my in laws and I have talked Swedish all night ,it doesnt bother him ,he was interested in the similarities between Scandinavian languages and the old Caithness dialect!!  

 I left French at the end of my 3rd year in school despite the best efforts of Mr Scott (whom I had a brilliant conversation with recently)I could not master the pronounciation but I now I am almost fluent in Swedish and recently passed a job interview in Norwegian . 
This has allowed me on my visits to Sweden to be able to be exposed to such things as going to church, reading history archives ,local TV etc etc in fact get a real immersion in the culture which I definately could not without knowledge of  the language. I wonder if this is the real problem with Gaelic ..an ignorance of the language leading to ignorance of the culture    
PM
ps I should have added that speaking Swedish in a pub in Thrumster was not due to bad manners nor my inlaws inability to understand English but due to the fact they did not feel confident in speaking English in a diverse company . However they also were very interested in WBGs Gaelic

----------


## weeboyagee

> Interesting thread.  I can see both sides of the argument.
> 
> What I definitely DO know, WBG, is that today I went, in an effort to try to be supportive of you and yours, to the Mod 2010 Facebook page, fully intending to join up and show folk that we Caithness based musicians are really looking forward to the Mod and all the cultural inspiration it brings.  I was genuinely disappointed to discover that such a tiny percentage of it was actually in English and such a huge percentage in Gaelic that I didn't know what it was about, so I felt a bit excluded and I didn't join... yet.
> 
> Tricky problem you've got there, mate.


Hello there Tootler! There are two social network pages so that we cater for both Gaels and non-Gaels (it's a tough life y'know!) the Facebook one is mainly (but not exclusively) in Gaelic and Bebo is almost all (but not exclusively!) in English. www.bebo.com/modghallaibh2010

There is also a lot more info on the bebo site than the Facebook site although we are trying to satisfy all language needs where we can.  Many apologies if you didn't know that and I hope that you still feel welcome to join both - whatever language!  There are moderators on both and you know one of them, who is the new Events Officer, very well - she is a fellow musician!  We are delighted to hear any feedback - including that you have made here - I'll take that on board - what about a bilingual translation then - would that suit (if you don't fancy joining bebo or if you aren't on bebo)?

Keep tootling - we have just had a recent convo where we can now catch up with you on our last chat! We NEARLY have all the info!

Hope you are well!  :Grin: 

WBG  ::

----------


## weeboyagee

> I think you missed my point - I have no problem with that. The problem is when people are initially speaking english but then switch on the arrival of an undesirable. As ywindythesecond said (and I don't know why i didn't think to put it like this). It is like speaking normally then whispering behind your hand to exclude someone. At very least it is childish and rude, on the other hand it could also be classed as racism.


Thanks for the explanation - I now see that what you are saying is not what I thought - and I agree with what you are saying.  Speaking in another language to *purposely* exclude someone is rude.  To speak or carry on speaking in an alternative language when it is what you would normally do is not.

In Ireland there were Gaels and Welsh in a bar for the Pan Celtic Festival.  The common denominator English - both spoke in their respective languages to the exclusion of each others group - but the exclusion was not on purpose.

WBG  ::

----------


## weeboyagee

http://www.facebook.com/#/group.php?gid=102778993025

There you go tootler - all sorted - confirmation that posts can be put in either Gaelic or English!  All because of your representation - we listen (every now and then!)

The post says "Please feel free to post in English or Gaelic - we welcome both! The Welsh will post in Welsh no doubt! Ma tha sibh ag iarraidh a' cur pòst anns a Ghàidhlig no anns a' Bheurla air an duileag seo - bith sin ceart gu leòr!"

We have a lot of Welsh members as well who are intending to visit next year.  Any Facebook Member is welcome to join - it's open to the public - hope to see a lot of org members joining soon!

WBG  ::

----------


## ywindythesecond

> Thanks for the explanation - I now see that what you are saying is not what I thought - and I agree with what you are saying. Speaking in another language to *purposely* exclude someone is rude. To speak or carry on speaking in an alternative language when it is what you would normally do is not.
> 
> In Ireland there were Gaels and Welsh in a bar for the Pan Celtic Festival. The common denominator English - both spoke in their respective languages to the exclusion of each others group - but the exclusion was not on purpose.
> 
> WBG


That's the point WBG, thanks for putting it plainly.
ywy2

----------


## Each

> ... now I am almost fluent in Swedish and recently passed a job interview in Norwegian .





> This has allowed me on my visits to Sweden to be able to be exposed to such things as going to church, reading history archives ,local TV etc etc in fact get a real immersion in the culture which I definately could not without knowledge of the language. I wonder if this is the real problem with Gaelic ..an ignorance of the language leading to ignorance of the culture


Think you hit the nail on the head there Peter, there is more to the Gaelic culture than just a different set of words, its a way of perceiving and understanding the world around you.

I was working down in Applecross a couple of years ago and got talking to one of the bodachs (old men) in gaelic about the area. He lamented that when he was young very few spoke English, today very few in area spoke Gaelic. He remebered the day that everybody change to English. 

It was during the war, a load of kids from Glasgow were evacuated to the Area and day they arrived everybody started to speak English so that the evacuated kids would feel comfortable and welcome.

I think this was an one act of kindness amongst many others that have contributed to the unintended decline in the language. 

There are many other examples where Gaelic speakers have deferred (out of politeness) to those speaking English.

I'm not saying they were wrong, but nevertheless it happened, and now we are where we are. Gaelic has moved from being a langauge of the street and public realm- to the language of the home, discrete, private.

So are gaelic speakers really the ones to blame for the langauages decline,as some have suggested ?


We are surrounded by English, in the community, on the TV and radio and the presence of Gaelic is so small, that you might be forgiven for thinking that it no longer existed. Where it does emerge timidly from the shadows into the light of public awareness, it must endure a barrage of scorn and disbelief that is unlikely to inspire confidence - particularly amongst a younger generation.

The other dificulty that is sometimes encountered - is a desire to over celebrate the language. Rather than a natural everyday experience, it has to become the focus of some event or exhibition. I have noticed, especially with kids, a real dis incentive to speak, if they feel that that are being made out to be an exhibit in a zoo which everyone has come along to stare and gawp at. 

Gaelic needs to be natural everyday experience, that is instinctive and not self conscious. There shouldn't be any barriers erected, real or implied, as to where Gaelic can and cannot be spoken.

We may be speaking another language, but were not talking about you, and were not keeping some deep dark secret to ourselves - Gaelic conversation is mostly about mundane, everyday events just like most English conversation.

----------


## northener

> Think you hit the nail on the head there Peter, there is more to the Gaelic culture than just a different set of words, its a way of perceiving and understanding the world around you.
> 
> I was working down in Applecross a couple of years ago and got talking to one of the bodachs (old men) in gaelic about the area. He lamented that when he was young very few spoke English, today very few in area spoke Gaelic. He remebered the day that everybody change to English. 
> 
> It was during the war, a load of kids from Glasgow were evacuated to the Area and day they arrived everybody started to speak English so that the evacuated kids would feel comfortable and welcome.
> 
> I think this was an one act of kindness amongst many others that have contributed to the unintended decline in the language. 
> 
> There are many other examples where Gaelic speakers have deferred (out of politeness) to those speaking English.
> ...


Each, that was an excellent post. I agree 100%

Regarding the domination by English culture, we could also argue that the English culture is now being overtaken by an American one, via the media and Americas' economic power. 
Time rolls on and no language or culture can remain static. If it does - it dies.

I believe that the Gaelic language and culture has a large part to play in the shaping of Scotlands' future. 
But NOT at the expense of those who do not see themselves as part of Gaeldom. Scotland is a big country, there should be room for regional diversification of language and culture applied equally across the whole of Scotland.

----------


## peter macdonald

"Regarding the domination by English culture, we could also argue that the English culture is now being overtaken by an American one, via the media and Americas' economic power.
Time rolls on and no language or culture can remain static. If it does - it dies.

I believe that the Gaelic language and culture has a large part to play in the shaping of Scotlands' future.
But NOT at the expense of those who do not see themselves as part of Gaeldom. Scotland is a big country, there should be room for regional diversification of language and culture applied equally across the whole of Scotland."

Northerner very true ....But surely given Caithness being what is basically a cultural /linguistic crossroads between Gaelic, Norn (gamle Norsk) and English  then maybe we should try to support Gaelic to stop it going extinct the same way Norn did After all it was the language of East Caithness and although little remains of the language I would suspect it would sound better than the Simpsons style American prevailant in the media :-)
PM

----------


## golach

> At very least it is childish and rude, *on the other hand it could also be classed as racism*.


Ehhhh??? how did you ever reach that conclusion, Racism?? I shake my owld head in despair  ::

----------


## northener

> Northerner very true ....But surely given Caithness being what is basically a cultural /linguistic crossroads between Gaelic, Norn (gamle Norsk) and English then maybe we should try to support Gaelic to stop it going extinct the same way Norn did After all it was the language of East Caithness and although little remains of the language I would suspect it would sound better than the Simpsons style American prevailant in the media :-)
> PM


Absolutely. But by education and negotiation. Not by imposition (as in road signs) - which I feel irritates many Caithnessians a damn sight more than the Gaelic language itself.

----------


## Leanne

> Ehhhh??? how did you ever reach that conclusion, Racism?? I shake my owld head in despair


To change language to exclude someone of a different language can be perceived as racism...If someone is speaking Gaelic and continues to speak Gaelic, fair enough. But to change from English to Gaelic as an exclusion hmmm

----------


## golach

> To change language to exclude someone of a different language can be perceived as racism...If someone is speaking Gaelic and continues to speak Gaelic, fair enough. But to change from English to Gaelic as an exclusion hmmm


Why if Gaelic is your mother tongue, I have experienced this in wee local bars in North Wales, walk in, a sudden silence, then all speak in Welsh, I do not see a problem with this, I am the stranger in their country.
On the other hand, if I walked into the Comm in Thurso, a silence fell then all started speaking in Gaelic, I would assume the Melvich Gaelic Choir were in town and WBG was on the bell.  :: 

No Racisim at all.

----------


## Leanne

> Why if Gaelic is your mother tongue,


But if Gaelic were the mother tongue the person would not be speaking in English in the first place...and then change  :: 

Anyway it's not my argument - I can speak welsh and from the Gaelic on here, it seems I can read Gaelic too...

----------


## Cedric Farthsbottom III

I am so naive.Caimera a tha thu?

Ye reply Tha mi gu mhat.

Ayrshire dialect:

How are ye?Are ye fine?

Ta ma guid mate.

Right I'm off to continue ma studies. :Smile:

----------


## Cedric Farthsbottom III

For Weeboyagee,theres an infamous phrase....Is mis Malloch Moore.

I am so naive.Is Mis ...My name is ....his surname Moore.Malloch,what is this gaelic name in English?Oot of curiousity. :Smile:  :Smile:

----------


## Serenity

I was in Wick today and went to the public conveniences. Can someone please explain WHY a sign stating "No smoking" in English, which is accompanied by a cigarette in a red circle with a line through it, also needs the "No smoking" and associated legal justification to be repeated in another language which very few people actually speak. If they can't understand the English, surely they can understand the very clear sign?
Waste of money.

----------


## gleeber

> I was working down in Applecross a couple of years ago and got talking to one of the bodachs (old men) in gaelic about the area. He lamented that when he was young very few spoke English, today very few in area spoke Gaelic. He remebered the day that everybody change to English. 
> 
> It was during the war, a load of kids from Glasgow were evacuated to the Area and day they arrived everybody started to speak English so that the evacuated kids would feel comfortable and welcome.
> 
> I think this was an one act of kindness amongst many others that have contributed to the unintended decline in the language


I suspect that story is more myth than fact. I worked in Applecross for almost 2 years 25 years ago and got to know the locals pretty well. They always spoke English in my company and if ever they spoke Gaelic I never considered they may have been talking about me. Anyway, all of them, without exception, spoke Gaelic.  I think what the old man may have meant was that since the 70s there was an influx of incomers to the peninsula and because Gaelic had no formal recognition they had no way of learning it. 
That does'nt mean I don't acknowledge the concerns you raise Each. I'm particularly aware of the school regimes in Skye during the 50s where children were strapped for talking Gaelic. I'm also aware of the deep scars incidents like that will leave on a cultures soul. 
I don't doubt this recent revival of Gaelic via the Gaelic Bill will help more people to learn the language therefore maintaining it's future but I have a deep concern with the effect an equalising of the Gaelic language with the English language will have on the mindset of an English speaking modern Scotland. 
I think the politicians got it wrong and now only the Gaels can change it.
Over to you!

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## Cedric Farthsbottom III

> I suspect that story is more myth than fact. I worked in Applecross for almost 2 years 25 years ago and got to know the locals pretty well. They always spoke English in my company and if ever they spoke Gaelic I never considered they may have been talking about me. Anyway, all of them, without exception, spoke Gaelic. I think what the old man may have meant was that since the 70s there was an influx of incomers to the peninsula and because Gaelic had no formal recognition they had no way of learning it. 
> That does'nt mean I don't acknowledge the concerns you raise Each. I'm particularly aware of the school regimes in Skye during the 50s where children were strapped for talking Gaelic. I'm also aware of the deep scars incidents like that will leave on a cultures soul. 
> I don't doubt this recent revival of Gaelic via the Gaelic Bill will help more people to learn the language therefore maintaining it's future but I have a deep concern with the effect an equalising of the Gaelic language with the English language will have on the mindset of an English speaking modern Scotland. 
> I think the politicians got it wrong and now only the Gaels can change it.
> Over to you!


Its got nothing to do with politicians.Gaelic has been forgotten.Its now an individual choice.Dae ye learn it or not?I think I'll learn the basics like I did with French and Martian,just so I can say a welcome rather than a full blown conversation. :Smile:

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## gleeber

Ye may be right cedric and it has little to do with politicians now but they were in it till the neck at the beginning.
I think, given the opportuntiy I would respond favourably to a Gaelic class some night during the week but that doesnt alter a deeper concern I have for Caithness and the identity I grew up with.

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## Cedric Farthsbottom III

Yer right gleeber.With the blethers I have had over the past years wi folk,Gaelic is the least of thier worries.

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## cuddlepop

I had an interesting conversation with a retired teacher from Sleat.
This lady is a well respected teacher in the community and like myself fears that gaelic is the trendy choice for parents and that no real interest is expressed in learning it to be part of the community.
Gaelic was never spoken in the playground the children reverted back to English and parents who had no gaelic had difficulty in helping their children with their homework.

Gaelic whether we like it or not will be "rammed" down or throats because thats where local councils can access money. :: 

Portree Primary school won the Highland Councils team of the year award for its excellent work at being an inclusive enviroment for both English and Gaelic speaking children,both in the community and school.

Guess what HC are going to break this school up.

Why,well guess where the money is. ::

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## weeboyagee

> I had an interesting conversation with a retired teacher from Sleat.  This lady is a well respected teacher in the community and like myself fears that gaelic is the trendy choice for parents and that no real interest is expressed in learning it to be part of the community.


What a sweeping statement.  What a shame for the genuine learners, that you have prejudicially judged the lot in such a manner.  How the heck you can be living in Skye and have such a view puzzles me.  I know loads of Skye folk and they most certainly do NOT share your generic classification.  What strikes me is that I bet you are ever so slightly jealous that you are a non-speaker on the island and that those who are learning the language are showing you up!




> Gaelic was never spoken in the playground the children reverted back to English and parents who had no gaelic had difficulty in helping their children with their homework.


So, they don't take to the language and the community see them as non-contributive to the survival of the language (regardless of playground or home) and if they DO take to the language they are seeking to be trendy.  Get a grip.  This is nothing to do with HC policy - this is to do with sheer and utter prejudice.  I have spoken to MANY kids from Skye outwith the playground, where they have been GM taught.  They are excellent and will chat away in Gaelic no bother.  English also, if you don't speak Gaelic - so that will keep you happy.




> Gaelic whether we like it or not will be "rammed" down or throats because thats where local councils can access money.


"Rammed"?  Another prejudicial term in it's use here.  If it was being "RAMMED" down your throat believe you me, you would be, BY LAW, having to learn it - that's RAMMED!  You don't even know the way that you're using your terminology.  You speak on a Caithness forum referring to your take on it in Skye.  There is a helluva difference between the Caithness folks reasons and the reasons of Skye folks.  You're coming on here spouting like that because you want to be seen as "accepted" by the Caithness folks with a similar stance as you see them having, yet you live in Skye, a lot of whom have a big issue with Caithness getting the Mod because of their stance on Gaelic (as seen to be portrayed by the Councillors).  You need to check which feet you have your shoes on.  If you were so brave and you had such a community forum in Skye and spouted the same way you'd be in for a rough ride - with the exception that if you turn it on the incomers that the Sgitheanaich so love, you'd go down a bomb - unless of course - you are incomer in Skye!  And if you are, with an attitude such as what you are spouting off on here - God help you!




> Portree Primary school won the Highland Councils team of the year award for its excellent work at being an inclusive enviroment for both English and Gaelic speaking children,both in the community and school.
> 
> Guess what HC are going to break this school up.  Why,well guess where the money is.


How about the fact that Portree has achieved something with the language to the point that it has flourished and now justifies a school in it's own right????  That ever cross your mind - something that Portree should take a big pat on the back for - not be subjected to your scournful pathetic point of view that seems to start this post with a token reference to a respectable Gaelic-speaking lady almost as a pseudo justification that everything you have uttered is widely thought of in SKYE (NOT Caithness) - and given the amount of folk I know over there, you'd face a hard time in respect of your views.  I wouldn't come on to caithness.org trying to add to a caithness argument with your Skye point of view that to me lacks in actual true representation - do the Caithness folk the justice of adding to their point of view and understanding their point of view from the Caithness side - you're some-kind-of education of Caithness folk by your "take" on Skye is grossly mis-representing the case and the Caithness folk should know that.

Will be in Skye soon enough - I'll make damn sure I get a more informed point of view from them next time - though to be quite honest if I were to raise the "Caithness" question with the Caithness folk (my family) that live in Broadford and Portree and my friends who live all over Skye - they will shut down within minutes of my starting!

WBG  ::

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## cuddlepop

WBG you calmed down yet........


I've lifed here since 85 and dont mix in the gaelic circles I'm just not posh eneogh. :Wink:

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## The Pepsi Challenge

Just wait; next year, there will be an episode of Dr. Who And The Gaelic Zealots on TV. I guarantee it.

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## Turquoise

I lived in Skye for a while and know many folk who learned Gaelic at school there.  I never spoke to anyone who didn't like learning it as it was taken as being the local language, which naturally would be taught at school.  In fact, it was seen by my friends as much more useful than French,  which in my opinion is a much greater waste of school resources.

If I had been given the option, I would have learned Gaelic, as Gaelic speakers are much closer neighbours than the French.  I've only ever used French once since learning it at school, but have been in far more social situations with Gaelic speakers, where I would have loved to have been able to have a wee blether.

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## cuddlepop

> I lived in Skye for a while and know many folk who learned Gaelic at school there. I never spoke to anyone who didn't like learning it as it was taken as being the local language, which naturally would be taught at school. In fact, it was seen by my friends as much more useful than French, which in my opinion is a much greater waste of school resources.
> 
> If I had been given the option, I would have learned Gaelic, as Gaelic speakers are much closer neighbours than the French. I've only ever used French once since learning it at school, but have been in far more social situations with Gaelic speakers, where I would have loved to have been able to have a wee blether.


Turquoise do you speak it now?
My eldest has her higher gaelic and never uses it,no tell a lie she used it to impress an Irish gaelic speaking boy in the Park Bar recently and didnt get very far. ::

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## Turquoise

> Turquoise do you speak it now?
> My eldest has her higher gaelic and never uses it,no tell a lie she used it to impress an Irish gaelic speaking boy in the Park Bar recently and didnt get very far.


Do I speak which now - Gaelic or French?

The point I was making was that when you refer to wasting money on the school curriculum, French has over the years been a much greater waste of money, in my opinion.  I have barely ever met anyone French but come into contact with Gaelic speakers on a fairly regular basis.  

Did she choose Gaelic as a Higher?  If it was that much of a waste of time and curriculum funds for Portree High, why did she choose to do it as a Higher subject?  ::

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## cuddlepop

> Do I speak which now - Gaelic or French?
> 
> The point I was making was that when you refer to wasting money on the school curriculum, French has over the years been a much greater waste of money, in my opinion. I have barely ever met anyone French but come into contact with Gaelic speakers on a fairly regular basis. 
> 
> Did she choose Gaelic as a Higher? If it was that much of a waste of time and curriculum funds for Portree High, why did she choose to do it as a Higher subject?


It as her choice to take gaelic not mine and I was asking if you use your gaelic ?

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## Turquoise

> It as her choice to take gaelic not mine and I was asking if you use your gaelic ?


I never said I spoke Gaelic, I said I would have liked the choice at school to do Gaelic.

So she wanted to do Gaelic and obviously enjoyed it enough to take it as a Higher, so surely that in itself shows that it is a good thing to have on the curriculum as a _choice._

I think it would be very sad for this language indigenous to the area to be lost.

Many Gaelic speakers I know have gone on to work eg for ITV, after studying it at uni.

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## cuddlepop

> I never said I spoke Gaelic, I said I would have liked the choice at school to do Gaelic.
> 
> So she wanted to do Gaelic and obviously enjoyed it enough to take it as a Higher, so surely that in itself shows that it is a good thing to have on the curriculum as a _choice._
> 
> I think it would be very sad for this language indigenous to the area to be lost.
> 
> Many Gaelic speakers I know have gone on to work eg for ITV, after studying it at uni.


My mistake I thought you'd said you did.

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## Stavro

Things are getting a little heated.  :: 

Time to calm down and enjoy some of the culture and heritage of this country -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtbOfIpJ4YU

It was English that was rammed down the Scots' throats, not the other way around.

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## Cedric Farthsbottom III

> Things are getting a little heated. 
> 
> Time to calm down and enjoy some of the culture and heritage of this country -
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtbOfIpJ4YU
> 
> It was English that was rammed down the Scots' throats, not the other way around.


I loved English,it was French that was rammed down ma throat.I wish looking back now ma school had taught me Gaelic.After all,the only two words ye need to know in French is "I surrender". ::  ::

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## gleeber

> Things are getting a little heated. 
> 
> Time to calm down and enjoy some of the culture and heritage of this country -
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtbOfIpJ4YU
> 
> It was English that was rammed down the Scots' throats, not the other way around.


Wev'e moved on from that argument Stavro. Do try and keep up.  :Wink:

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## Stavro

> I loved English,it was French that was rammed down ma throat.I wish looking back now ma school had taught me Gaelic.After all,the only two words ye need to know in French is "I surrender".


 ::   Same in Italian, isn't it?!

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## northener

> It was English that was rammed down the Scots' throats, not the other way around.


An incorrect observation, methinks.

The English language had been making large inroads into Scotland since around the 1500's. Once power was held by the Stuarts over England (starting with James VI), English became more common throughout the country as more ties were created with England. Many leading Scots were in favour of Anglicisation of the language.

A natural evolvement, much in the same way that-say - the use of French by the Norman aristocracy in Britain was slowly eroded away by the English language.

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## Stavro

> An incorrect observation, methinks.
> 
> The English language had been making large inroads into Scotland since around the 1500's. ...


Burning books, banning music and speech, banning tartan, and inflicting harsh punishment is not really what I would call making inroads.  :Grin: 

There was a marriage of convenience (to the English, that is), which I think is what you are referring to.

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## golach

> The English language had been making large inroads into Scotland since around the 1500's. Once power was held by the Stuarts over England (starting with James VI), English became more common throughout the country as more ties were created with England. Many leading Scots were in favour of Anglicisation of the language.


 
Northener, the final straw was the 1746 Act of Proscrition, banning the wearing of Tartan, ownership of a Gaelic bible and the carrying of arms, the Engelanders and the Lowland Scots wanted to teach the rebels a lesson they would never recover from,

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## Leanne

From what I learnt at school Gaelic wasn't historically, widely spoken this far north, or indeed and further north than Perth. The traditional language was Norse. There is a push in my Aunt's village to not have Gaelic signs as locals feel that Gaelic is not appropriate to the history of the area (Glenshee, Blairgowrie areas). The push for Gaelic for all of Scotland seems to come from a Scottish united front - very commendable but not historically accurate. (Unless they have been teaching British history wrong for the past 30 years  :Wink:  ).

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## Cedric Farthsbottom III

See,I'm not from up here.I am up here,lovin it,but sadly not born.See the reason I would learn Gaelic before Norse,is because the Norway guys shoot the Whales.The Vikings were a bunch of beardy Hagars.The Vikings made wee funny boats wi a dragon head on the front.Thier just lucky they attacked Scots at the time when they were attacking each other,rather than now.Wait a minute,there's a knock at the door.......................ach,it was just the National Norway Liberation Front.Now where were we. ::  ::

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## upolian

this thread is amusing,keep up the good work ::

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## northener

> Burning books, banning music and speech, banning tartan, and inflicting harsh punishment is not really what I would call making inroads. 
> 
> There was a marriage of convenience (to the English, that is), which I think is what you are referring to.


 



> Northener, the final straw was the 1746 Act of Proscrition, banning the wearing of Tartan, ownership of a Gaelic bible and the carrying of arms, the Engelanders and the Lowland Scots wanted to teach the rebels a lesson they would never recover from,


Gentlemen, I'm disappointed. Are you suggesting that the English language was not widely spoken in Scotland before Culloden? 
You're confusing the complete destruction and subsequent supression of a C18th 'enemy' (or culture) after a revolt with the already well established spread of the English language. Two pretty seperate issues, I'd say.


Lowlanders are Scots, too. Same as Highlanders. 
Wouldn't it be more correct to say that English was not the main language in _some areas of Scotland_ - as opposed to saying that the use of English language across Scotland was a direct result of the Jacobite revolts? 
The Scots (not Gaelic) language was widely spoken in the Lowland areas, this was blurred into a more English based language from the C16th onwards.

And that's well before Culloden. There was a distinct shift in Scottish attitude towards the Gaelic language 150 years _before_ Culloden. BTW, the idea that the English are mainly to blame for the demise of the Gaelic language is a bit simplistic to say the least.

There's a very interesting article on the demise of Gaelic here.

The openening paragraphs of the article:

_"Scots Gaelic has had a colourful history. It has declined from a position of strength in the the early tenth or eleventh century where the bulk of the population spoke Gaelic, to a situation now, where about 1.6% of the population speak it. It would be simplistic to say that it was part of a "grand plan" by an essentially hostile English government in an attempt to create a unified country and rid itself of a political burr in the north. Yet this attitude is the one which has gained credence in the past particularly amongst the 'Gaelic Nationalists' of various hues who ignore the history of the language._
_The fact is that while this view does indeed have some truth in it, it is at best a half truth, and at worst it is downright false. We have to look not to one reason for Gaelic's decline but to many, all of which have inter-linked and coalesced with each other in a lethal -if that is not to overstated a word- cocktail._
_The key to understanding the reasons for the decline of Gaelic is to look for the first signs of a divergent Scotland, a split between a fundamentally homogeneous country and a divided Highland-Lowland nation. By about 1400, the distinction between Lowlander and Highlander appears to have become firmly established."_

Read on, it's interesting stuff.

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## northener

> ......The Vikings made wee funny boats wi a dragon head on the front.Thier just lucky they attacked Scots at the time when they were attacking each other.....


It would be difficult to find a period in history when the Scottish _weren't_ attacking each other! :: 

The Vikings would still be floating around waiting to land.......

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## Cedric Farthsbottom III

> It would be difficult to find a period in history when the Scottish _weren't_ attacking each other!
> 
> The Vikings would still be floating around waiting to land.......


Ach yer talkin history northener.Today the only boats waiting to land are the oil tankers waiting to rip us off.Norway love the Vikings though.Probably the same as Scots love William Wallace.Me,Rab C Nesbitt is more a Scottish hero,at least he knew what it was aw aboot. ::  ::

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## golach

> Lowlanders are Scots, too. Same as Highlanders.


How dare you Northener, Heelanders are/were superior till Lowlanders, but as your not a native, I will forgive you  ::

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## Cedric Farthsbottom III

> How dare you Northener, Heelanders are/were superior till Lowlanders, but as your not a native, I will forgive you


Highlanders are far superior to Lowlanders?True. :Smile: Or are they? ::

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## gleeber

I read somewhere that Caithness was once described as the Lowlands beyond the Highlands.

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## northener

> How dare you Northener, Heelanders are/were superior till Lowlanders, but as your not a native, I will forgive you


Alas, Golach I am but an ignorant Engerlunder.


I'll not mention the fact that my lot were originally Mortons from the Lowlands. :Wink:  ::

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## S&LHEN

tha seo maith :Smile:

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## Stavro

> tha seo maith


Not quite sure what you mean, but my Shetland Grannie would say 'soo moother.'
For the benefit of a "soothmoother" this is Shetland dialect for a person born anywhere South of Sumburgh.
 ::

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## weeboyagee

http://news.scotsman.com/letters/Kai...ure.5837717.jp

Nancy Nicolson seems to have got the measure of the issue!

WBG  ::

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## northener

> http://news.scotsman.com/letters/Kai...ure.5837717.jp
> 
> Nancy Nicolson seems to have got the measure of the issue!
> 
> WBG


 
Ah rekkon' tha's reet, lad.

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## Stavro

> http://news.scotsman.com/letters/Kai...ure.5837717.jp
> 
> Nancy Nicolson seems to have got the measure of the issue!
> 
> WBG


Do agree music is a wonderful mediator.
Celebrating culture and identity through music is a great way to pull us together.

I found the following quote on the internet: "No other lexicon describes landscape and weather with the precision of lyricism and metaphor available in Gaelic."
Gaelic music, aural tradition and song is another medium of expression which opens the mind and spirit of the nation.

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## The Pepsi Challenge

> I read somewhere that Caithness was once described as the Lowlands beyond the Highlands.


The Flatlands beyond the Highlands.

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