# General > Birdwatching >  Whatever happened to...

## Aaldtimer

...the Common Crow?
Following up from the Piggin Shooters thread I was amazed to find that it's not even featured on the RSPB website. 
Then I had a look in my 20+ year old Readers Digest bird book and it ain't there either!
Is it completely gone from the UK now? ::

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## Kenn

Try looking under Carrion Crow which is it's proper name.

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## Aaldtimer

No Lizz, that's not the same bird . 
The bird I remember from my youth was quite a bit smaller than the others, with a yellow/orangey bill.
I'm talking 40-50 years ago, but haven't seen one for at least 30 years. :: 
Guess it was down to that pesticide that was banned eventually that affected the thickness of the eggshells of some birds...it was a series of letters that escapes me at the moment.
This Auldtimer's Disease is hard sometimes! ::

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## Anji

> .
> Guess it was down to that pesticide that was banned eventually that affected the thickness of the eggshells of some birds...it was a series of letters that escapes me at the moment.


DDT?

Anyway, I've just checked my bird books and was surprised to find the crow listed in neither.  Like Aaldtimer, I remember crows as being smaller than what we call crows today, with orange beaks.

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## Kevin Milkins

The only crow I remember that has not got a black beak is the Chough.

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## Stefan

You guys thinking of this bird ?

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## Kevin Milkins

> You guys thinking of this bird ?


It's close (it is black, and a bird, Blackbird) however it's not a crow.lol

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## pat

Isle of Lewis

Have crows here but mainly large hoodies.  
Hate it when they start attacking the lambs, pecking out their eyes, tongue or through their skulls - had one lamb a month old in the next field and doing well until the hoodies started attacking it, dead in a very short time dispite mother doing her best.  Had thought that at a month and it was a strong lamb it was past being attacked but no - vicious birds.

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## Stefan

Ah, should have translated the word before I looked it up. Of course it's not a crow, far too small.
It's the only black bird with an orange beak I remember though...

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## Aaldtimer

No Stefan, the bird I'm talking about was maybe about twice the size of a blackbird, maybe even a bit more.
Just seems a bit strange that it seems to have been airbrushed out of history!
1984.... ::

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## Kevin Milkins

Is this the crow you remember Aaldtimer? Chough

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## tonkatojo

> The only crow I remember that has not got a black beak is the Chough.


Thought they had a red one tho

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## Stefan

Oh, now I remember. They were slightly smaller than the crow and had a light yellowish beak, however, I would only see them when I went on holiday. There wasn't any where I lived.
I think you call them rooks.

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## Ricco

I think that the rook is our second biggest crow next to the raven... but I could be wrong.

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## Aaldtimer

No Kevin, not the Chough. I don't think they ever made it to the Dundee area where I was raised.
No Stefan, not the Rook either!
....Nor the Carrion Crow, Jackdaw, Hooded Crow, or Raven... ::

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## Stefan

http://www.natur-lexikon.com/Texte/H...lpendohle.html

Never seen one but it fits the description.... it's none of the listed above, is black with a yellow beak and smaller than the crow but larger than the blackbird. Belongs to the family of crows as well.

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## Aaldtimer

Good affort Stefan, but that is an Alpine Chough.  :Frown:

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## Stefan

No idea then. Can't help.... :Frown:

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## tonkatojo

> No Lizz, that's not the same bird . 
> The bird I remember from my youth was quite a bit smaller than the others, with a yellow/orangey bill.
> I'm talking 40-50 years ago, but haven't seen one for at least 30 years.
> Guess it was down to that pesticide that was banned eventually that affected the thickness of the eggshells of some birds...it was a series of letters that escapes me at the moment.
> This Auldtimer's Disease is hard sometimes!


Maybe it was the old chooks you can mind, black rocks or the likes. funny the mind at times. LOL

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## nirofo

None of the European Crow family have or ever have had yellow beaks except the Alpine Chough which has already been mentioned, the chances of seeing one of these locally or anywhere in the UK would be extremely, extremely rare and would have the twitchers flocking here in droves!  Where exactly did you see this bird(s), if you saw it in the south -west of Scotland then it could be a Common Chough where they do occur, these normally have blood red beaks, but occasionally can be orangey.  Once again these are rare birds in the UK and are very local in their habitat, to my knowledge they have never been recorded in Caithness, but I'll stand correcting on that one!

_nirofo_.

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## Aaldtimer

Hi nirofo, thanks for that.
Back in the 1950s when I was growing up these birds were around in the Angus area, but were indigenous to UK.
I won a prize at school which was a bird book and they were among the crow family then and referred to as the Common Crow.
I remember having a conversation with a twitcher in 1976 and she said then that they were getting pretty scarce in England.
Haven't thought about it much since but the Piggin Shooters thread brought it to mind, subsequent research has turned up zilch!
Anyone got a 50 year old bird book? :Smile:

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