# General > General >  New Thurso Hotel and Public Park Plan and the Present Local Plan Review

## Raymond Taylor

Please read the story and feel free to comment.  Click here

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## sids

Good luck. Hope it's not voted down by stuffed shirts 100 miles away this time.

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## Raymond Taylor

To support or object to the project the Highland Council link in the story needs utilised. Public support is the only way I can deliver what I refer to in the article.

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## DMFB

Would this have a detrimental afect on the wiegh inn hotel ? Is there room for two lots of lodges.

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## DMFB

I apologise I forgot to say it looks a very interesting positive project.

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## sids

> Would this have a detrimental afect on the wiegh inn hotel ? Is there room for two lots of lodges.


Competition is the life of trade.

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## springparker

i dont understand why thurso would need more hotel's we have pentland,royal,weigh inn,holborn,st clair,park  and more likely than not even more.the only reason would be for you to make money it has zero use to thurso in my view we need more shops to attract more people into the town then we might need a new hotel why in your opinion is the 6 plus hotels not enough for a town of a few thousand? i dont mean to disrespect your plan but this is my view on your project.

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## sids

> why in your opinion is the 6 plus hotels not enough for a town of a few thousand?


Do you think he wants to fill a hotel in Thurso with Thurso locals?

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## smithp

> Do you think he wants to fill a hotel in Thurso with Thurso locals?


Don't be daft..they'll be from Wick of course.

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## springparker

no what i am saying is surley we have enough space for the size of town and its needs with 6 plus hotels why would we need more of the same thing ?

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## sids

> no what i am saying is surley we have enough space for the size of town and its needs with 6 plus hotels why would we need more of the same thing ?


Ok, you reckon he'll get no clients. He's banking on that not being right.

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## Raymond Taylor

We did 35000 guest nights our last couple of years in the Royal.  We owned the Royal for 18 years and started with 6000 guest nights.  I project 30000 per year in the new project and always underestimate any projections I do for bankers.  

Royal v New Project?  No brainer really with no disrespect to the Royal which we put our heart and soul into

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## Digby

Everyone will have there own opinion about this, mine is that it will be a great boost, in the paper today Mr Taylor said he feels thurso is a stop gap for the orkney islands, I feel hes right, I work in a hotel out with Thurso and 90% of our peak month guests are just passing through, they set there satnav for the hotel postcode with no stop in the town nor adventure out once checked in etc.Having lived in Thurso all my days I feel the need for a in town hotel that is reliable, consistant and run well is whats missing, I couldnt off the top of my head say ive been somewhere twice lately that was good and good service.Mr Taylors end game is of course to make money why wouldnt it be, but think of his risk and input and hard work to set this up, the man would need a reward.  I would love to see this come to fruit, I hope his determination and experience pays off.

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## SunsetSong

I couldn't agree more with the post from Digby as above. The town needs high quality developments such as this to survive. The development will not only create jobs but encourage people to come here and stay for more than one night. Yes, there are hotels in the town already but to be fair a large number of them are in need of refurbishment to meet the needs for modern guests there is also a shortage of long term accommodation for people travelling to the area to work for prolonged periods. Thurso and Caithness have been in tourism terms very much a 'stepping stone' over to Orkney. Us locals know we have as much archaeology, scenery and attractions here in the county as Orkney has but have failed to capitalise on them - to do that we need visitors. A development like this will attract visitors and therefore we can have the ability to highlight what is here in the county. The proposed watersports centre in Thurso seems to have garnered support, a development such as Raymond Taylor's has a knock on effect to help that happen. Someone has commented that what Thurso needs is more shops, we also need visitors to the area to make those shops viable. By providing high profile and quality accommodation the knock on effect into the economy is huge and things like shops will follow from this.  I genuinely hope this comes to fruition and will be sending comments of support.

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## Loafer

I give my support Raymond, Thurso is rapidly going downhill so any good news stories will help. Thurso does need another hotel, I work in Dounreay and deal with contrcators who have to stay as far away as Tongue due to lack of beds available in Thurso..this is all year round.

All the best

The Loafer

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## nevergiveup

Although I agree  on his vision for Thurso...I think its totally in the wrong place...it would spoil the view for everyone except those using the hotel....There are other locations close to the town centre such as near the railway station where travel lodges would be ideal or the area near Bridgend that could be developed or near Thurso Castle...Obviously for the developer overlooking Thurso Bay  is a prime location and am sure it would be a success but am sure most people wouldnt trade the view for a developers profit.

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## Scunner

Why not use the 'tesco' site, its near the station, and at the moment it is a bloody eyesore for the town

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## SunsetSong

I think if you look at the plans and proposals very carefully then as far as I can see any development is being done to minimise disruption to the view. In fact the public park part of the development in my opinion will enhance the view. At the moment it is nothing more than a sheep field. There is a desperate need in Thurso for quality hotel provision.

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## Raymond Taylor

The Sequential test that was carried out for the ASDA/Retail site identified the site to the west of Pennyland House as the 2nd best site for a retail project several years ago.  That site and the Mart site were the only ones available.  This is still the case.  The site I propose is the only site that would be beneficial to the project and the town centre.  Any further from the town centre is too far.  I know this from experience.Yes the Mart site if you had £3.7m to pay Tesco what they bought it for would secure you a Travelodge or Premier Inn site.  Not what you would call a quality site for attracting the type of long term quality tourist, weddings, conferences etc that I have identified.  I also own the site I propose to build on which makes the project much more viable and deliverable.

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## sids

> Why not use the 'tesco' site, its near the station, and at the moment it is a bloody eyesore for the town


Because it's a free country, because it's not Mr Taylor's responsibility that it's a bloody eysore,  because it has a view of the scrapyard, because Tesco has land-banked it and because Mr Taylor already owns the ground beside the camp site.

There may be other reasons, too. Those are just the blindingly obvious ones.

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## sids

Is anyone legally entitled to a view of the sea?

Without a hotel in it!

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## weeker2014

> The Sequential test that was carried out for the ASDA/Retail site identified the site to the west of Pennyland House as the 2nd best site for a retail project several years ago.  That site and the Mart site were the only ones available.  This is still the case.  The site I propose is the only site that would be beneficial to the project and the town centre.  Any further from the town centre is too far.  I know this from experience.Yes the Mart site if you had £3.7m to pay Tesco what they bought it for would secure you a Travelodge or Premier Inn site.  Not what you would call a quality site for attracting the type of long term quality tourist, weddings, conferences etc that I have identified.  I also own the site I propose to build on which makes the project much more viable and deliverable.


I wish you the best of luck.  It is a great idea for Thurso and desperately needed.  Well done to you for wanting to do something so worthwhile and for putting yourself on here to answer the nay sayers (of which there will no doubt be many).

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## Banshee

I agree with a point made earlier, there has been nothing done in this county for far too many years to encourage the tourist trade.  There is nothing for tourists to do, even niche markets such as bird-watchers and ramblers are not catered for although there would be plenty of opportunity for these groups.  Caithness does indeed have huge archaeological potential but has not even had a county archaeologist for a number of years due to cutbacks.  This county has been left with the 'security' of Dounreay and now the closure is rapidly approaching there is nothing in place to keep or bring people here.

In honesty I think the hotel and park would be a lovely idea if there was the tourism infrastructure around to support it.  Until there is a significant investment to improve this and a significant attitude change in order to accommodate such a change in direction in the community there are enough stop-over places for those who pass through on their way to other places.

I also don't have an answer to the conundrum.  Without investment the tourist gaze will forever be elsewhere, looking at Caithness as nothing more than a stop-over point to other places, the hotel industry won't want to invest hugely in their premises without the tourists to stay for more than a night or two and the local community won't cater to the wants and needs of tourists when they know that these people will only be moving on thus causing tourists to have their gaze on other places as there is nothing to keep them in the local area.  It's a vicious circle but I honestly don't think the building of this facility would be enough to change it.

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## Raymond Taylor

Banshee, Could I ask you what you allude to when you mentioned tourism infrastructure?

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## weeker2014

> I agree with a point made earlier, there has been nothing done in this county for far too many years to encourage the tourist trade.  There is nothing for tourists to do, even niche markets such as bird-watchers and ramblers are not catered for although there would be plenty of opportunity for these groups.  Caithness does indeed have huge archaeological potential but has not even had a county archaeologist for a number of years due to cutbacks.  This county has been left with the 'security' of Dounreay and now the closure is rapidly approaching there is nothing in place to keep or bring people here.
> 
> In honesty I think the hotel and park would be a lovely idea if there was the tourism infrastructure around to support it.  Until there is a significant investment to improve this and a significant attitude change in order to accommodate such a change in direction in the community there are enough stop-over places for those who pass through on their way to other places.
> 
> I also don't have an answer to the conundrum.  Without investment the tourist gaze will forever be elsewhere, looking at Caithness as nothing more than a stop-over point to other places, the hotel industry won't want to invest hugely in their premises without the tourists to stay for more than a night or two and the local community won't cater to the wants and needs of tourists when they know that these people will only be moving on thus causing tourists to have their gaze on other places as there is nothing to keep them in the local area.  It's a vicious circle but I honestly don't think the building of this facility would be enough to change it.


Having worked in the the hotel trade for many years, with some of those in Caithness and Thurso, I fully agree that more accommodation is needed.  The bigger hotels are filled with coach parties visiting the County and Orkney, which leaves a famine of accommodation.  In addition a lot of the big hotel with function facilities like the Weigh Inn are extremely busy with large wedding parties which book them out.

Thurso is desperately in need of a large hotel to fill that gap.  I am also sure a lot of year round contracts could be tied up to provide accommodation to businesses.  In order to get tourists to visit there must be somewhere for them to stay.  Even if they do not stay in the area and are just passing through they are still spending money in the area, through basics at shops, food, fuel, hotel accommodation and business to Scrabster for their trip to Orkney.

Raymond seems confident that he can secure the business the hotel would need, which I fully agree is there, as well as creating much needed jobs and regeneration in the area.

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## wickblast

surly any new development is better than none good luck with your new venture

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## sam09

Do you have any artists impressions of what the development would look like?  If plans are passed do you have any plans for archaeology assessment to be carried out on the site?

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## theone

I think this would be a great development for the town, and would support it in principle.

Although I realise this is only for a change to the local plan, I'd like to think any detailed planning permission ensured the hotel itself was closer to the road than the cliffs. I personally wouldn't want the hotel building to back right onto the Victoria walk as is shown in the article.

I would also like to see more detailed plans for the "public park". Although I realise this is a "sweetener" for the hotel development, I wonder what form it would take? Being realistic, the landscaping would have to be carefully done, any trees aren't going to last very long there! The grassy playing field to the other side of the caravan park is already very under used. Would the people of the town really benefit from a large open field area? Or would a more specific/structured area be better - racketball/basketball court or such?

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## Banshee

I went to the Visit Scotland site for Thurso to have a look at what they say there is for tourists to do.

_The most northerly town in mainland Scotland, Thurso is a great base for exploring the surrounding countryside.

__Theres plenty to see and do in and around the delightful town of Thurso.   The town is a hive of lovely traditional shops, cafes, bars and restaurants.  Other great must-sees are the circular wellhouse of Meadow Well, a fine public library and the impressive Janet Street overlooking the River Thurso close to Thurso Bridge.  Check out the Swanson Gallery which hosts year round exhibitions of fine artwork, or discover the magical world of Glass Creations by artist Ian Pearson.  Caithness Horizons is also well worth a visit with fascinating museum exhibits and a changing annual gallery programme.

__Thurso is also a major surfing area and a premier heavy cold surf destination which hosts surfing championships, including two World Championships for Kayak surfing. The plentiful reefs, points, river mouths and beaches, on top of the consistent year-round surfing opportunities, make the location a paradise for watersports lovers.  

__West of Thurso is the Dounreay nuclear power station and its story is explained in an exhibition within the Caithness Horizons visitor centre. The dramatic north coast stretches away to the west, while inland is the vast area of blanket bog known as the Flow Country._ http://www.visitscotland.com/info/towns-villages/thurso-p243991

That's the information given.  To mention the Meadow Well is a farce, it's a stone building with dim lighting and a hard to read sign in the middle of it.  The surfers aren't even catered to very well since the permission to have a building erected with showers etc down at Thurso East has been turned down.  This would have been a great selling point for the internationally renowned surfing Thurso has.  No-one can deny that we do have excellent beaches but there is only a limited period in which all but the hardy local would venture down there for leisure time! 

Caithness Horizons has had some excellent programmes on, the Ancient Ancestors festival was brilliant but there needs to be more of these things and run by other people to encourage diversity and depth of things to do for all ages.  There is nothing for children to do in the area so families are not catered to very well.  We have an excellent music scene, including the folk music on every Wednesday night at the Commercial Bar, but there is very little to showcase it especially with the B-fest having been cancelled.  Also where's the mention of Northern Nashville which has attracted people from across the world?

There are limited leisure facilities, the small local pools with attached gym along with two local riding schools - neither of which having an indoor school for poor weather riding.  Someone has been trying to bring about a soft-play area for children but is struggling.  

With more things for tourists, especially families to do in the local area the tourism infrastructure would be robust enough to have a good selection of hotels that will cater to more than just the travel-through traffic.  I honestly really hope you get to build it and it works for you Raymond but I think more needs to be done in the wider community to help support you.  I am hoping to come along to your open day tomorrow and would love to talk to you more about it then if I could, the forum is great but it doesn't beat a good conversation!

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## Raymond Taylor

In reply to the last two comments and the points raised.  At this stage in the planning process an Archaeology report does not need to be done, it will have to be carried out if we come to a detailed application.

I am only looking for the site to be included in the local plan for tourism and leisure purposes at present.  The detail stage will also include the final siting of the building structures, the physical size of these and many other details.  Also community benefit and park, what would be included there etc etc.  It is a hugely detailed process and public opinion and wishes on all aspects are taken into consideration by not only me but the Highland Council planning officials and councillors. 

As for artist impressions, the drawings I have had done were expensive enough at this stage.  No one before has mentioned the building should be further back on the site, so not sure how to answer that one except in the negative.  What I can say on the siting, taking comments on board here and on Facebook these past days, swapping the lodges and the hotel round putting the hotel slightly further west will be considered.  My only fear on this point is the need to be as close to the town as possible.

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## Raymond Taylor

See you tomorrow Banshee and many others I hope.  3pm-8pm at Caithness Horizons

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## Banshee

Thank you so much for all the information tonight.  You certainly set my mind at ease.  I'll be keeping my fingers crossed now!

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## Raymond Taylor

Thanks Banshee it was got to chat to folk yesterday. Just a quick follow up from the open day and the feeling I am getting.  Seems to me on social media and yesterday there is around 85% support for my tourism and leisure projects on the site I would like to develop.  TS18 as described in the Highland Council Main Issues Report (MIR). The main concern raised yesterday was surprisingly the delivery time.  

Folk were amazed when I told them the best I could do even with a fair wind was open the doors in around 5 years.  The process is now this... If supportive we need the Highland Council planners to add TS18 to the MIR for tourism and leisure purposes.  Then "IF" they decide to add it the final plan this will be published in 18 months. The final MIR then needs to go to the Scottish Office Reporter who will take a year to decide "IF" he/she agrees with the planning officials. Same type of thing happened with the Mart v Pennyland ASDA decision.  The reporter can torpedo the whole thing.

The project which can only be planned in detail once I know I have a green light will take  8 months to design and up to 18 months to complete.The process is that laborious and complex. 

Bought the Royal in 1979, identified the need for a new hotel around 1984, bought Pennyland Farm for the hotel site in 1987, won approval locally for project in 1992, decision turned over in Inverness a few months later.It is now 2015.  Sort of depressing really when I know what it would have meant to the town over the past 20 years.  Glad I'm still sane, just!

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## mickeyebbels

I have to say that I was pretty impressed with the presentation I was a bit skeptical before seeing and hearing about the plans. It was nice to see someone actually wanting something of high quality in Thurso. I suspect the biggest hurdle will be Inverness!

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## Bogbrush

Best of luck, this could be very good for the town. I feel a little embarrassed when I have to accommodate guests in Thurso's increasingly shabby existing hotel stock.

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## travelling man

Best of luck Raymond  this is what Thurso needs only hope all our councillors support you and we dont end up with the Asda situation where the majority of the town wanted it but it was thrown out by a single vote.

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## mini one

Not sure what Mr Taylor thinks his hotel is going to offer to stop people wanting to go to Orkney.Is he going to be doing something more for the tourist than just accommodation for his own profit?As if he puts them in accommodation with that beautiful view I am sure they will ask wat the island is and will want to visit it.Would it not have been better to have bought the Pentland with no view of where you don't want people to go.I am sure Mr Taylor also is aware on the Asda etc housing requirements there are other sites available around town not just his or Tescos

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## weeker2014

> Not sure what Mr Taylor thinks his hotel is going to offer to stop people wanting to go to Orkney.Is he going to be doing something more for the tourist than just accommodation for his own profit?As if he puts them in accommodation with that beautiful view I am sure they will ask wat the island is and will want to visit it.Would it not have been better to have bought the Pentland with no view of where you don't want people to go.I am sure Mr Taylor also is aware on the Asda etc housing requirements there are other sites available around town not just his or Tescos


I for one would welcome any money to the town, even if it is as a stop off to Orkney.  When people stay in a nice hotel, with a beautiful view it showcases a lot more of the county than staying in one of the current hotels which is badly in need of refurb and upgrade.  Seems like some sour grapes there Mini One!

Who in their right mind would want to have a hotel that doesn't make money?  Would be a little pointless.  Do you think the current hotel owners (many of which are multi site companies and not private) in the town don't spend money to upgrade their hotels for the public good?  No, it's to suit their bank balance.

This is something Thurso should be extremely proud of, and any extra overnight visitors to the town will undoubtedly benefit the many.

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## *Martin*

> Not sure what Mr Taylor thinks his hotel is going to offer to stop people wanting to go to Orkney.Is he going to be doing something more for the tourist than just accommodation for his own profit?As if he puts them in accommodation with that beautiful view I am sure they will ask wat the island is and will want to visit it.Would it not have been better to have bought the Pentland with no view of where you don't want people to go.I am sure Mr Taylor also is aware on the Asda etc housing requirements there are other sites available around town not just his or Tescos


Had you lost your password for the past few years? I only ask as your previous post was "18-Sep-11"

It seems strange to come out of retirement just to take a dump on someone's attempt to bring a bit of life to the county...

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## Wanted

Good luck to him and anything that improves a town is welcome with me

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## Raymond Taylor

> Not sure what Mr Taylor thinks his hotel is going to offer to stop people wanting to go to Orkney.Is he going to be doing something more for the tourist than just accommodation for his own profit?As if he puts them in accommodation with that beautiful view I am sure they will ask wat the island is and will want to visit it.Would it not have been better to have bought the Pentland with no view of where you don't want people to go.I am sure Mr Taylor also is aware on the Asda etc housing requirements there are other sites available around town not just his or Tescos


Maybe I should buy the Royal back even given the fact I sold it 15 odd years because we considered it not fit for purpose and it had no future.  Do you realise how many thousands of visitors are not coming to the town because we don't have the large number of quality bed spaces required?  Thurso actually needs a lot more bed spaces than I want to build.  And yes many want to go to Orkney during a stay but it will be on a day trip using Thurso as a hub to tour the north like we did in the Royal.

As for the ASDA and housing comment.  Sequential testing and the local plan has shown Pennyland is the place to expand Thurso for the health of the town since 2002.  

And yes I do have self interest in mind, of course I am a business man with a 30 year dream.  Saying that, I would not do anything detrimental to the health of the town.  The hotel, public park and chalet development discussed on this thread would be one of the best things that ever happened to the town.

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## weeker2014

> Maybe I should buy the Royal back even given the fact I sold it 15 odd years because we considered it not fit for purpose and it had no future.  Do you realise how many thousands of visitors are not coming to the town because we don't have the large number of quality bed spaces required?  Thurso actually needs a lot more bed spaces than I want to build.  And yes many want to go to Orkney during a stay but it will be on a day trip using Thurso as a hub to tour the north like we did in the Royal.As for the ASDA and housing comment.  Sequential testing and the local plan has shown Pennyland is the place to expand Thurso for the health of the town since 2002.  And yes I do have self interest in mind, of course I am a business man with a 30 year dream.  Saying that, I would not do anything detrimental to the health of the town.  The hotel, public park and chalet development discussed on this thread would be one of the best things that ever happened to the town.


Absolutely Right!

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## scotsboy

What is the latest on this proposed development?

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## dozy

If folk are up for a new hotel in Thurso ,why don't you contact J Barrie and OBriens and redevelop the Bridgend site .Clear all the ground between the two bridges which will give you all the ground you need . Get the council and the Scottish government to chip in and remove the Ellan Footbridge and replace it with a new road bridge . Put in around abouts at both ends off the bridge ,this would help relieve the traffic from the town square and give you two entry/ exit points. If you are truly wanting to do whats right for the community and make some money to boot, take up this idea and drop me a PM .

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## scotsboy

Was specifically interested in the development that has had plans submitted.

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## Scunner

Is there any progress on the 'improvements' at Pennyland Farm?

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## Raymond Taylor

> If folk are up for a new hotel in Thurso ,why don't you contact J Barrie and OBriens and redevelop the Bridgend site .Clear all the ground between the two bridges which will give you all the ground you need . Get the council and the Scottish government to chip in and remove the Ellan Footbridge and replace it with a new road bridge . Put in around abouts at both ends off the bridge ,this would help relieve the traffic from the town square and give you two entry/ exit points. If you are truly wanting to do whats right for the community and make some money to boot, take up this idea and drop me a PM .


If the private message asked you to fund what you wish would I get anywhere?  I actually own the site I want to develop, I have no access problems and the views/amenity where I want to develop my new hotel secures it's future.

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## Raymond Taylor

> Is there any progress on the 'improvements' at Pennyland Farm?


Sorry could you be more specific?

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## Raymond Taylor

> Was specifically interested in the development that has had plans submitted.


No plans have been submitted for planning permission.  I await the outcome of the Highland Council local plan review before deciding what to apply for.

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## Raymond Taylor

Thought I would post the Highland Council planning officials CASplan recommendations.  These have now been approved by the Caithness and Sutherland Committee.http://www.highland.gov.uk/download/...velopment_plan

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## Raymond Taylor

Caithness Councillors have gone against Highland Council Planning Officials recommendations to include the redesigned hotel and 20 acre public park I started this thread with.  After several years and 3 rounds of public consultation I could not believe my ears what went on at the meeting to "debate" this.

Seemingly BBC Alba have picked up on the story and with 12 hours notice I was asked to give some comment.  It's on the news tonight at 8pm I've been told.  I will watch with interest and comment more later as I meet with planning officials in Inverness this week to discuss my options.

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## abz02

> i dont understand why thurso would need more hotel's we have pentland,royal,weigh inn,holborn,st clair,park  and more likely than not even more.the only reason would be for you to make money it has zero use to thurso in my view we need more shops to attract more people into the town then we might need a new hotel why in your opinion is the 6 plus hotels not enough for a town of a few thousand? i dont mean to disrespect your plan but this is my view on your project.


If you maybe go and stay in one of the hotels in thurso you will maybe understand the need for something new, I agree in what you say shops should be an attraction so closing one to make way for something new and open more shops

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## Raymond Taylor

I've said exhaustively over the years Thurso can become a hub for tourism and this was 20 years before the NC500 was "invented".  
The whole of the Highlands are 5 years behind where we should be as far as tourism is concerned and the opportunities that are presenting themselves.  The main theme in the new local plan was support for tourism projects.
Shame the councillors ignored this and their position is detrimental to the towns future tourism prospects.

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## gaza

Keep at them Raymond,
It's a must, and in the perfect place.
What a view they'll have.

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## Raymond Taylor

I almost fell of my seat last night when the best planning arguement Mr Saxon came up with was the fact that the site had been through 4 public enquiries.  Its Ironic is it not that he met the BBC in LIDLS carpark for the interview, where at the moment is the only place to sit and enjoy the view. No proper carpark, picnic tables or 20 acres to walk or take the dog.

I'll be back later to explain why I nearly fell of my seat, need to get the Breakfast on for our full house.

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## Goodfellers

I have only recently started reading this thread, forgive me if this has been mentioned earlier. Does the refusal of this planning application mean that everybody is now entitled to a view?
I know that is quite simplistic, but having not read the planning documents, just picking up on what has been said here and in the media, this seems to be the biggest issue.
I didnt think anyone was entitled to a view, only a certain amount of light/shading etc. 
If the refusal is mainly due to the loss of view, can we all now use that as a reason to object to any proposal which interferes with our view? I can see that causing a headache for HCC planning department if that is the case.

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## Raymond Taylor

No a view is not a relevant planning objection.  However common sense does need to come into play.  Below is some highlights of the brief Councillors had in the recommendations set before them in CaSPlan. The CaSPlan document is 235 pages and is on the Highland Council website.  The points below are specific to impact on view which seems to be the biggest worry folk have.

CaSPlan.......
The general response to the hotel market is outlined within Issue 10 Thurso. This refers to the expected growth of the tourism sector, continued demand from business visitors and the need to continue to improve the tourism product and accommodation on offer in Caithness.

Although the site is outwith the Town Centre Boundary the proposal for a high quality hotel, spa and restaurant on TS14 are considered as being mainly location dependant. It is expected that a specific selling point of a hotel, spa and restaurant would be its cliff top location, looking over Thurso Bay. Together with the Developer Requirements for high quality, low level siting and design the proposal would likely appeal more to the higher end of the market which is not being properly provided for at present. 

The views out over Thurso Bay to Scrabster, Dunnet Head and Orkney are recognised as being important features and valuable assets of Thurso. To ensure a higher quality hotel development which minimises the impact on the landscape, the developer will be required to produce a masterplan for the site which will address issues, including the siting and design of the hotel, provision of a public park area, landscaping, access from the A9, enhanced active travel connections and coastal walk improvements. 

High quality, low level design is essential and the inclusion of features such as stone dykes can also help to integrate the development within its surroundings. The visual impact is minimised by the hotel allocation being located on the eastern side of TS14, adjoining the existing caravan park. The hotel allocation is also restricted to 3ha which includes an area identified for Expansion of the Green Network along the coastal edge. This will allow for the protection of 6.5ha of land at TS12 for the provision of a public park which will preserve open views to Dunnet Head and Scrabster Harbour. 

The public park and hotel development could help to provide a more attractive entrance into the town centre and remove the focus of the buildings on the seaward side of the A9 being mainly centred on the existing caravan park. Overall the Council believes that the allocation and the Developer Requirements are sufficient to ensure that any hotel proposal will have an acceptable impact on the landscape.

Visit Scotland’s Tourism Strategy identifies a need for more quality hotels in Caithness and to help meet this land is allocated at Pennyland. Given its prominent and sensitive location it is essential that a hotel in this location is delivered to the highest of standards. A low level building with features such as a green roof would help reduce the visual impact.

----------


## Goodfellers

I only moved to Thurso this year, after having been a tourist to this part of the world for the last 20+ years. Thurso was a town we tended to stop for fish and chips, and then drove on. Every town needs a posh hotel; International tourists (and some local) expect it. Looking onTripadvisor the top rated hotel actually *in* Thurso has a recent review which says a tired soulless place. I personally think Thurso needs some quality accommodation.

 Good luck with your application.

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## Max

Thurso is so behind the times, the North Coast 500 information rarely mentions Thurso.  A high quality hotel would attract these tourists and they may actually stay here rather than pass through as quick as possible, I am afaraid to add that unless some forward thinking Councillors come on board there isn't a chance.  The future of the town is in the hands of those who really don't  look to the future and dare I seem to  live in the past.

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## hilary

Well said Max. Thurso badly needs another hotel. Yes we need new councilors with open minds and a little sense.
No one is entitled to a view ,thats what you are told if you live in the country ,when objecting to wind turbines .
I think the hotel should get the green light.

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## slinky

away and bolt keep our view

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## Recycle it

What a lot for dung is spoken on this site ,No we don't need another hotel built on green belt land .No we don't need to be bribed by offer of public walks to have one. Funny how the people behind the new development did have one of those old rundown hotels that already exist in the town . It's down to money ,if you build new NO VAT . Renovation of an old one NO TAX relief . This is NOT a case of doing what's right for the community but doing what's right for themselves and the only way to get THEIR way is to con folk into believing it's them that will benefit . Warm words from a WEASEL mouth, is no words at all. There is a few sites in town that would benefit from investment. The proposed new hotel is a red herring to push up the land value and that's in the interest of only one party. If they are interested in a new hotel surely the old foundry site would be good as its right next to the new swimming pool and fitness centre. It's a far better view and smells a lot better to with a lovely walk . For those who say Yes to the Rockwell site, I say this ' stop looking at the what your feed without asking the question .WHY ? '

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## Raymond Taylor

Pretty feeble when your "planning" argument is about money and VAT then all you have is resorting to calling me a liar which I take from being called a WEASEL mouth.  A bit of a low point on this thread.  Argue as much as you can but don't call me a Weasel mouth.

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## Raymond Taylor

As for your points raised. I quote myself from earlier on this thread.

"Maybe I should buy the Royal back even given the fact I sold it 15 odd years ago because we considered it not fit for purpose and it had no future".

You can't make a silk purse out a sows ear sort of sums it up. The last 10 years in the Royal we spent £500k just to tread water.  In my opinion, when we sold in 1997 the only option was to knock it down and start again, we did consider but that was totally unfeasable as so many attached businesses etc.  Also no matter what class of building we had there, the boy racers would never go away.

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## gaza

> What a lot for dung is spoken on this site ,No we don't need another hotel built on green belt land .No we don't need to be bribed by offer of public walks to have one. Funny how the people behind the new development did have one of those old rundown hotels that already exist in the town . It's down to money ,if you build new NO VAT . Renovation of an old one NO TAX relief . This is NOT a case of doing what's right for the community but doing what's right for themselves and the only way to get THEIR way is to con folk into believing it's them that will benefit . Warm words from a WEASEL mouth, is no words at all. There is a few sites in town that would benefit from investment. The proposed new hotel is a red herring to push up the land value and that's in the interest of only one party. If they are interested in a new hotel surely the old foundry site would be good as its right next to the new swimming pool and fitness centre. It's a far better view and smells a lot better to with a lovely walk . For those who say Yes to the Rockwell site, I say this ' stop looking at the what your feed without asking the question .WHY ? '


Calling someone a WEASEL ! !
You've put yourself in the category of, lower than a snakes belly in a wagon track.

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## Max

I cannot believe peoples attitude to something that would be beneficial to the County.  People should go and look at other places and see how progress can be beneficial to all parties (and hey, it is never in anybodies wildest dreams going to block the view).  I would not expect anyone in  business trying to make a living to do something only for the benefit of others.  This would be beneficial to all, business owners, investors and Caithness as a whole.  Lets not be jealous of what others do, but support them and reap the benefits as well.

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## crayola

The obvious clean solution to this impasse is to demolish all the buildings at Pennyland and build a low profile hotel in situ. Most of the buildings are falling down anyway, and demolishing the B&B would be a noble sacrifice to the community the owner tells us he wants to help. Just do it biyee!

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## Max

Have you been on Tripadvisor Crayola?  Think to demolish such a good business not to mention someones home is really senseless and quite a  horrible thing to say.  I know it has already been explained to you about the buildings and why they can't be demolished.  I read it and took it in - just read it again -  Biyeeee!

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## mi16

> The obvious clean solution to this impasse is to demolish all the buildings at Pennyland and build a low profile hotel in situ. Most of the buildings are falling down anyway, and demolishing the B&B would be a noble sacrifice to the community the owner tells us he wants to help. Just do it biyee!


I am sure the householders of the pennyland estate would be delighted to have their homes demolished for a hotel Crayola

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## Raymond Taylor

> Have you been on Tripadvisor Crayola?  Think to demolish such a good business not to mention someones home is really senseless and quite a  horrible thing to say.  I know it has already been explained to you about the buildings and why they can't be demolished.  I read it and took it in - just read it again -  Biyeeee!


I think Crayolas been on something and it's certainly not Tripadvisor :Wink:

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## mi16

Acid trip advisor

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## crayola

> I am sure the householders of the pennyland estate would be delighted to have their homes demolished for a hotel Crayola


Ha ha obviously I meant all the buildings at Pennyland Farm including the B&B. It would make a good brown field site.  :Smile:

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## Max

Oh that makes so much sense now! (see what you mean Raymond and mi16)  :Smile:

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## crayola

Demolishing all the buildings at Pennyland House and building a green roofed low rise hotel in situ would solve virtually all of the problems we know about. The fabulous vista across Victoria Walk would be preserved and hotel guests wouldn't have far to walk into town for shopping and dining. What more could our would-be saviour and entrepreneur want? He wouldn't even have to dig deeper into his pockets to fob us off with a public park and woodland that no-one really wants. I have found a simple solution to a problem that's eluded Thurso tourism's finest minds for more than 20 years!

Where there's a witch there's a way.  :Wink:

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## crayola

This is one of those days when I remember why I left Thurso as a teenager. I have solved one of the town's most longstanding problems, a problem of more than 20 years' standing, yet none of the town's worthies have offered their support. Wake up you people! See what has been placed in front of you and grab it with both hands because this opportunity will not reappear for another 20 years with you lot in residence. 

What you need to do is start up a movement with a groundswell of support to demolish the buildings at Pennyland and build the luxury hotel that so many of you deem necessary to augment and even replace Thurso's current population of ancient inadequate hotels. These are your opinions not mine so shout them from your rooftops. Tell your councillors you want to raise Pennyland to the ground and in its place you want to build a luxury hotel wth a fantabulous view across the fields  to Orkney. It's a super solution that you wish you had come up with yourselves. It makes everyone happy so shout as loud as you possibly can and create a crescendo that can not be ignored by your political representatives.

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## mi16

Head sore today crayola, looks like you enjoyed a few sherbets last night

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## Raymond Taylor

The planning argument against my project in now getting a bit thin and desperate since what I am proposing will have minimal if any affect on the view.

Recent argument has been VAT, TAX relief and now I should knock down one of Thurso's most famous "listed" buildings.  Someone even suggests Thurso could do without a 20 acre public park and over 100 acres of community woodland with a few km of walks.  I suppose we also don't need the 70 jobs, 20000 extra tourists and the £1.5m per annum spent in the town the new project would provide.

The only sensible thing said was about the project needing to be close to the towns centre for the benefit of the project and the businesses in the town.

I sometimes despair!

----------


## crayola

It is a lie that the proposal previous to mine would have no effect on the view. Think about a 7 metres tall hotel that the proposer doesn't even know the height of with respect to the Weigh Inn. Then there is the big car park it needs and the roads to reach it and new fences and large rubbish bins. Think also of all the cars, vans and buses that would be parked next to it and the traffic the hotel would generate. Delivery vans, lorries, scaffies and all that. Then there is the proposed park with its walls, hedges, fences or whatever. The terrible effect on the vista and the amenity would be far, far worse than the proposer claims. Think about it and wince.  

Building in in situ at Pennyland is the obvious solution. Raymond as expected is displaying the nimbyism he usually blames on others. Come on Raymond this is your opportunity to do something for your community. You have sat behind your lippy mouth for 20 years. Now you have been given the opportunity, for goodness' sake do something about it man!

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## Raymond Taylor

So now I'm lying about the height of the proposed hotel which is covered in the 235 pages of CaSPlan and you want to knock down a listed building. Then your back talking about the Weigh Inn again.  I'm sure people want to hear some new argument.  

I have a statement coming out soon about the present situation with CaSPlan etc that will I am positive be of interest.  It should be on the org and in the press over the next week or so.

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## jockyplunck

i dont pretend to know much about this. but maybe the old foundry site may be a better place for a new hotel.

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## crayola

Well well well Raymond, I didn't expect you to write that you are lying! Last we spoke you didn't know whether your fantasy hotel would be taller than the Weigh Inn. Are you now saying you've been lying about its height or lying about not knowing it would be higher than the Weigh Inn? Which is it?

Do you say you've been lying in your press statement? If so I would be shocked at your behaviour. 

So do tell us about your large planned car park and what it would look like when full of visitors' vehicles like Land Rovers and large Mercedes four wheel drives. And how are you planning to hide coaches and large delivery vans and lorries and big rubbish bins and regular visits by scaffie carts? And what about the walls or hedges or fences around your hotel and around your hotel car park? Will you only allow guests with grass green cars and delivery vehicles? And will you insist on green asphalt for the roads to and from your hotel and car park?

You can't pull the wool over my eyes. I see the truth of what a big eyesore your fantasy development would be. 

I don't want to spoil Thurso's surroundings with yet another forest. There are enough of those ugly things in Caithness already. And I don't want your idea of a faux manicured park next to Victoria Walk. Go and live next to Donald Trump in Central Park if that's what you want. Don't spoil our unspoilt Thurso countryside.

Would your hotel be called Taylor Tower?  :Grin:

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## crayola

> So now I'm lying about the height of the proposed hotel which is covered in the 235 pages of CaSPlan and you want to knock down a listed building. Then your back talking about the Weigh Inn again.  I'm sure people want to hear some new argument.  
> 
> I have a statement coming out soon about the present situation with CaSPlan etc that will I am positive be of interest.  It should be on the org and in the press over the next week or so.


I'm quoting your post to prove you wrote 'So now I'm lying about the height of the proposed hotel'.

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## crayola

Oh and one more thing:

Is your proposed hotel higher than the Weigh Inn? If so by how much?

I keep asking this question because you have never answered it! You didn't know the answer last time I asked! Do you know it now? If not why not?

How can anyone trust you if you don't answer? Or if you don't even know the answer?

And how can you make statements about how much your hotel would spoil the view if you can't compare its height to that of the Weigh Inn?

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## Max

Lets just demolish Thurso and all live in Crayolas alternate world  :Wink:

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## Alrock

> Lets just demolish Thurso and all live in Crayolas alternate world



Would certainly be an interesting place to live....

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## crayola

My world is a splendid world Alrock. You are welcome to join it. 

In my world I solve problems in five minutes that Thurso's self appointed saviour has failed to solve for the last twenty years. And I have fun doing it. 

Which reminds me. The ghost of my virginity lies close to Victoria Walk. Has anyone seen it recently?

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## Raymond Taylor

So Crayola I have now to put up with you taking more cheap shots at me for some reason elsewhere on the org.  You seem to be dominating many threads and have an opinion on almost everything.

My Dad told me once and through my life I have found it to be very true - "It's always the emptiest barrel that makes the most noise".  So you carry on and fill your boots!

I'll be back later with my statement etc.

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## crayola

Come on Raymond!

You are avoiding the question. Again!

This looks so so bad for you. 


Would Taylor Tower be taller than the Weigh Inn?

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## MrA

> Come on Raymond!
> 
> You are avoiding the question. Again!
> 
> This looks so so bad for you. 
> 
> 
> Would Taylor Tower be taller than the Weigh Inn?



I think you'll find this looks so bad for you.... give those keys a rest. If your worried about the view get up from your keyboard and go for a walk along the beach front and take it in.

Don't knock the guy for trying to create Job's and improve Thurso tourism. This is exactly what Thurso's going to rely on in the future so you should be positive and embrace it. Maybe use your energy in better ways and promote change rather than being abusive.

Best of luck to Mr Taylor and I look forward to having a nice beer and meal in the Hotel Restaurant overlooking Thurso bay.

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## Scunner

It seems strange that visitors are allowed a view, hence the planning committee refuse a great idea.   And yet the private owner of a house is not entitled to a view and buildings spring up around them also extensions on homes that can block views.

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## Raymond Taylor

> Come on Raymond!
> 
> You are avoiding the question. Again!
> 
> This looks so so bad for you. 
> 
> 
> Would Taylor Tower be taller than the Weigh Inn?



Taylor Tower - another cheap shot however - Just for my sanities sake and peace I'll try to answer as long as you promise to drop the point as this is the best I can do as there is a planning mechanism to go through if the land gets allocated.

I've told you before I don't know how high the Weigh Inn is, so I'll take a guess and I repeat it's a guess.
around 10-12m I reckon.

My project if you read CaSPlan etc it is described as a "low level design, built into the 6-7m slope with a flat grass roof.  

If the land is allocated for development we then go through a pre planning stage which is a negotiation with council planners before an architect puts pen to paper.  We all sit round a table to "discuss" what design etc would be best for the site.  If during this consultation it is deemed a one, two or even one and a half level build is best for the site that is what it will be.

When the drawings after the pre planning consultation stage are done then we go to the detailed stage where local councillors control final approval approval of all detail in the design.  So I don't get away with blocking out the sun as I told you a few months back.  I will build what is deemed best for the site by highland council experts who recommended the project for approval.

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## crayola

Wahey! At last! See it wasn't that difficult was it?

Why didn't you say this before?

Now tell us how you're going to hide all the cars and buses and vans and all the other things that go along with a hotel. But it's not just a hotel is it? It's a whole development. And we haven't even mentioned all the lodges you want to build next to the hotel.

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## crayola

Here's Raymond's plan. 



It's a huge development running from the main road to the edge of the cliffs. The hotel is only a small part of it. Look at all those roads. And all those lodges. It's almost a village by itself!

And what is the other largish building just above and to the left of where it says Developed Land?

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## MrA

G = Restaurant/pub and Holiday Chalets reception.

H = Resturant outdoor seating area.

I = Multi Use park and Showground.

K = Visitor Parking.

E = Leisure Club (Great)

J = Bandstand! (Outdoor music?, fantastic! Great for the county show or perhaps festivals? Exactly what this town is missing.

Looks great.

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## Raymond Taylor

Yes a busy tourist village I would hope with all the associated benefits to the town centre and within easy walking distance. Lodges no higher than the mausoleum already on site,  2.5m on a 6-7m slope.  And I would be surprised if there were no buses and cars in the carpark.  20000 tourists can't be beamed up like Star Trek in my world, maybe yours!

Thanks for putting the plan up again I was about to do the same thing.

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## Alrock

> ...Thanks for putting the plan up again I was about to do the same thing.


Could you put it up in higher resolution?

Also... Any 3D moddeling, artist impressions?

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## Raymond Taylor

If councillors allocate the land for leisure and tourism use I will have an artist impressions done for my presentation to them. My opening thread on this, if you click to view the story then click on the hotel plan, it the best resolution I have at the moment.  I will probably have another open day before councillors decide on the zoning with all plans there.

Anyone can contact me anytime and come round to Pennyland House to view.

What I do also plan for the councillors is to have some marquess put up at the height of the lodges and hotel when it comes to the detail stage.  Remember though, if the councillors don't zone this area for tourism and leisure the whole plan is history.

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## gaza

Crayola has some strange opinions, and like all of us who are passionate in what we say and feel gets a bit carried away, but fortunately it doesn't make it so.
I for one think it's a good and considerate design, in the perfect location, and something this town is long overdue.
Keep at em Raymond.

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## mi16

> Crayola has some strange opinions, and like all of us who are passionate in what we say and feel gets a bit carried away, but fortunately it doesn't make it so.
> I for one think it's a good and considerate design, in the perfect location, and something this town is long overdue.
> Keep at em Raymond.



if memory serves me correct, Crayola does not even live in the county and is therefore merely poorly attempting to troll Mr Taylor, the odd thing is that the mods seem to be allowing this.
Others have been banned for much less persistent badgering of a person.

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## Raymond Taylor

Everyone is entitled to an opinion in a democratic country and I love the chance to answer the sometimes awkward questions. It allows me to lay out my case for the project for all to see, as hopefully I have done throughout this thread. 

It is a truly magnificent and sensitive site for a hotel and any development needs to be sympathetic to that fact. It is an amenity, in my view that is under utilised at present and the overall project can enhance and embrace this which can be done with clever design.  Just yesterday I spoke to an architect that thinks the park area could even extend onto the grass roof of the hotel.

I convinced the Highland Council Planning officials to recommend supporting the project, all Caithness Councillors had to do was say Aye! On August 31st just passed they said Nay!  I'm still at a loss to why?

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## Mik.M.

I convinced the Highland Council Planning officials to recommend supporting the project, all Caithness Councillors had to do was say Aye! On August 31st just passed they said Nay! I'm still at a loss to why?
Perhaps you need to try plain brown envelopes stuffed with cash for them,lol. Plus I think mi16 has a point in their last post.

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## mi16

Indeed, I suspect the correct palms were not suitably greased prior to decision day

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## Raymond Taylor

> Indeed, I suspect the correct palms were not suitably greased prior to decision day


I was told there was something in the planning officials recommendations the councillors were not happy with.  I am making some modifications and they will have the final vote on the subject early next year.

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## gaza

> I was told there was something in the planning officials recommendations the councillors were not happy with.  I am making some modifications and they will have the final vote on the subject early next year.


.
Next YEAR !
No wonder Caithness is rundown and in the state it's in, tell the highland council to get their finger OUT.
BRING BACK CAITHNESS COUNTY COUNCIL.
I'm gonna write a letter !

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## crayola

Raymond's vision looks like a horror version of a 1970s holiday camp to me. Why would I want to bring an old fashioned Butlin's lookalike to Thurso and thereby destroy one of the greatest natural vistas in the world? Once destroyed there's no going back to virgin fields and a sheepies' paradise. 

The obvious solution that will keep developers and conservationists happy is to build a fancy hotel, restaurant and chalets in situ at Pennyland, west of Castlegreen Road. This will involve demolishing some delapidated buildings and one or two others but this is surely a minor price to pay by the people of Thurso to secure their families' future with minimum destruction of the natural environment. 

The county's councillors have a clear rational vision and we should all join together and support them because they have the town's best interest in mind and they know what's best for the town's future.

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## mi16

Why would you want to see buildings of historical interest demolished cratrolla

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## gaza

> Raymond's vision looks like a horror version of a 1970s holiday camp to me. Why would I want to bring an old fashioned Butlin's lookalike to Thurso and thereby destroy one of the greatest natural vistas in the world? Once destroyed there's no going back to virgin fields and a sheepies' paradise. 
> 
> The obvious solution that will keep developers and conservationists happy is to build a fancy hotel, restaurant and chalets in situ at Pennyland, west of Castlegreen Road. This will involve demolishing some delapidated buildings and one or two others but this is surely a minor price to pay by the people of Thurso to secure their families' future with minimum destruction of the natural environment. 
> 
> The county's councillors have a clear rational vision and we should all join together and support them because they have the town's best interest in mind and they know what's best for the town's future.


This one's havin a Larf, on so many levels.

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## Raymond Taylor

"Raymond's vision looks like a horror"

I'll tell you my vision, which is not fanciful like yours having just heard this morning about more redundancies at Dounreay.

Thurso, Caithness and the Highlands from Inverness north are 5 years behind where we should be as far as grasping the opportunities that are there for all to see in tourism.  Tourism could be huge in this area.  Just this past month we had travel writers staying with us telling me the surface has only been scratched regarding the NC500 which is only part of the tourism scene up here.

The real horror story is the NC500 is at capacity, it is basically full unless the seasons extend.  Just off the top of my head knowing what we could do here at the B&B and the new hotel etc, I reckon 3000 bed spaces are needed in quick order around the route.  Road infrastructure has also to be improved without compromising the quaintness of the road.

I am sure Visit Scotland who identified the need for more quality "hotels" in Caithness in a report before the NC500 was "discovered" are of a similar view.

Will we look back in a few years that as an area a huge opportunity has been lost?  Only time will know the answer to that one.

I meet Roy Kirk (HIE) next week to discuss.  In the 80's grants were given to individuals to open up properties for B&B rooms through the Highlands.  This needs to be resurrected in some way to help a little in the short term. Even if I get the nod next January from councillors it will take 3 years to get the doors open. 

The chance is there for us to grasp but we need to move swiftly remembering  "Opportunity never knocks twice"

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## Goodfellers

I for one would consider letting one or possibly two rooms out on a B & B basis if there was some sort of financial help, some practical advice would be good too.  I would use local butchers for bacon, sausages, etc. so money would circulate locally.
Let me know if your discussions are fruitful. 
All I would need to do is take some charm lessons!

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## cptdodger

> Raymond's vision looks like a horror version of a 1970s holiday camp to me. Why would I want to bring an old fashioned Butlin's lookalike to Thurso and thereby destroy one of the greatest natural vistas in the world? Once destroyed there's no going back to virgin fields and a sheepies' paradise.


I have kept out of this because in fairness, I am not from here I just live here, however crayola regardless what you think of Butlins (Bourne Leisure) and how old fashioned it is / was, that company keeps resorts like Skegness, Minehead and Bognor going. I can't comment on Bognor and Minehead but Butlins in Skegness is one of the towns major employers.

While Bourne Leisure has nothing at all to do with this argument, I know for a fact when my partners contract at Vulcan is finished we are out of here and I would imagine it will be the same for a fair amount of Dounreay and Vulcan workers because nothing has replaced it.

Your argument crayola seems to be you think Raymond's hotel is going to destroy the view. From what I can understand from the plans, he is not building along the whole of the far north coast, he is building on a tiny percentage of it. There is very little else here apart from views. 

From what I can see, all Raymond is trying to do is to attract more visitors to Thurso, however in my opinion it's going to take more than a hotel and whatever else he is building. A lot of tourists I spoke to (when I worked at a local hotel) saw Thurso as a stopping off point for the Orkneys and that was it. People here need to start looking at the bigger picture, the businesses (shops, cafe's and so on) have to start catering for tourists. Just one example, a coach trip turns up and they have a free day on Sunday and want to go to the Castle Of Mey or John 'O Groats, they can't get there unless they pay a small fortune for a taxi as there is no bus service runs on a Sunday, there are very few shops open on Sunday, and maybe one cafe and that is in the height of the summer. A cruise ship docks at 7am and the passengers want to go into Thurso, they can't even get a cup of coffee. Quaint will only get you so far I'm afraid. I worked at The Castle Of Mey when I moved here in 2009 and asked why they closed from September to April, I was told, because nobody comes here !

While you may not agree with Raymond and his plans crayola, for whatever given reason, at least he is trying to do something which is more than can be said for anybody else.

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## Mik.M.

Well said cptdodger,spot on.

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## mi16

> Well said cptdodger,spot on.


try getting a meal after 9pm in the evening or 2pm in the afternoon for lunch, you get looked at like you have defecated on the floor

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## Alrock

> I have kept out of this because in fairness, I am not from here I just live here....


Not from here but living here makes you far more qualified to comment than being from here but not living here in my opinion...




> Your argument crayola seems to be you think Raymond's hotel is going to  destroy the view....


Certainly not her view since she doesn't even live here anymore...

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## Max

Anyone can see that this can only be beneficial to the town.  We need to look to the future and if there is going to be a future for those who live here, our children, our grandchildren.  Crayola has some sort of personal vendetta against Raymond, that is obvious from this and some of her other posts, she wants to see Raymond's house pulled down and listed buildings which in my understanding are not very easy to get permission to pull down anyway.  I think Crayolas comments should be ignored and everyone should look at what is actually on offer here.  Fantastic opportunities to bring in a proper tourist trade to benefit the town. Good luck Raymond you have the support of many of us and hopefully the powers that be will remember they are representing the people of this community and do what is best for us!

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## crayola

Raymond's holiday camp would vandalise the vista, and it would severely sour the ambiance and the amenity on and around Victoria Walk for future generations. Throwing the baby out with the bath water is not a good plan. 

The obvious solution is to build a top class hotel on the current Pennyland House site. This will have fabulous views over the land and the sea at little cost and disadvantage to the thousands of people of the town. Come on Raymond you know it makes sense! What reason can you give for not doing it? And don't avoid the question!

Or build your holiday camp at Thurso East where it won't vandalise the vista for so many.

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## Raymond Taylor

Your ridiculous argument is stuck Crayola, like a bad record.  If you knew about the history of the house or anything about Historic buildings and planning policy you would understand how silly your sounding.  The Outbuildings will be developed to enhance the history of the house and the connection to the Boys Brigade while also complementing my plans to make the west of Thurso a hive of business and activity.

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## cptdodger

> The obvious solution is to build a top class hotel on the current Pennyland House site. This will have fabulous views over the land and the sea at little cost and disadvantage to the thousands of people of the town. Come on Raymond you know it makes sense! _What reason can you give for not doing it?_ And don't avoid the question!


Why on earth would anybody in their right mind destroy a building with such historical value ? I come from a place that has done just that over the years, absolutely destroyed countless beautiful buildings and literally ripped the heart out of the place. Now they are practically having to start from scratch rebuilding the place. If I want to look at my towns history, I have to look at old photos or go to a museum. Is that what you want for Thurso ? Once these buildings are gone, they are gone for good.

I hope Raymond, Pennyland House is listed because it is a lovely looking house. 

To be honest crayola, by the sounds of it Raymond's plans for his new hotel are not the problem, you have just basically got it in for him.

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## crayola

The capitalist developer resorts to personal attacks and refuses to discuss the issues professionally when he has his back to the wall.

My knowledge of historic buildings is first class. I once worked for them!

To get back to the point. I want to save the area from wanton destruction. I have no personal interest in the purveyor of wanton destruction as I am a woman of high moral principle. My goal is to help prevent the people of Thurso from walking into an environmental and perhaps also an economic disaster for the town.

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## rogermellie

Surely you mean 'loose' morals ? 
You used to tell us all about the hoi polloi you (literally) used to nob about with and how you were a page three stunner.
now you tell us you worked in historic buildings (presumably horizontally) and you're on a mission to save the simple folk of thurso from the nasty capitalist mannie ?

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## cptdodger

> The capitalist developer resorts to personal attacks and refuses to discuss the issues professionally when he has his back to the wall.
> 
> My knowledge of historic buildings is first class. I once worked for them!
> 
> To get back to the point. I want to save the area from wanton destruction. I have no personal interest in the purveyor of wanton destruction as I am a woman of high moral principle. My goal is to help prevent the people of Thurso from walking into an environmental and perhaps also an economic disaster for the town.


Unfortunately crayola you just come across as vindictive. It sounds like you think people in Thurso are too stupid to make their own minds up about Raymonds proposed development, and you have to save them from themselves. If you care about Thurso so much, you move here, you come up with a viable plan to create jobs. Because in the very near future the only economic disaster that is going to befall Thurso and the surrounding area is when Dounreay and Vulcan finally close for good, not when somebody builds a hotel.

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## crayola

I support the present and future people of Thurso in our battle to remove the wool that has been pulled across our eyes by the most wanton pullers of wool. I have no personal interest whatsoever in the person or persons who pull the wool.

My only goal is to promote what is best for Thurso. And that does not include wool. Unless that wool is on Thurso's sheepies.  :Smile:

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## crayola

> try getting a meal after 9pm in the evening or 2pm in the afternoon for lunch, you get looked at like you have defalcated on the floor


Defalcated?  ::  

This isn't the WADF thread.  ::

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## mi16

> Defalcated?  
> 
> This isn't the WADF thread.


opps auto correct on the bleeding phone innit
you know what I meant

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## onespace

I can only assume that the user with the username "Raymond Taylor" isn't actually the real Raymond Taylor as I can't see him wasting his time having a pointless argument in a tiny corner of the Interweb with an alter ego of a local crank.

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## cptdodger

> I support the present and future people of Thurso in our battle to remove the wool that has been pulled across our eyes by the most wanton pullers of wool. I have no personal interest whatsoever in the person or persons who pull the wool.
> 
> My only goal is to promote what is best for Thurso. And that does not include wool. Unless that wool is on Thurso's sheepies.



Why is it your battle ?

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## gaza

> I support the present and future people of Thurso in our battle to remove the wool that has been pulled across our eyes by the most wanton pullers of wool. I have no personal interest whatsoever in the person or persons who pull the wool.
> 
> My only goal is to promote what is best for Thurso. And that does not include wool. Unless that wool is on Thurso's sheepies.


That's your opinion of which you are entitled too.
I've lived in Thurso all my life so I'm one of those people you mention, 
But not my opinion, I'm sick of progress happening everywhere else but Caithness of which I am very passionate about, and in the past stood up and fought against unappropriate constructions.
But Caithness council are as much good as an ashtray on a bike, we need to take a leaf out Orkney Councils book.
But no they sit their pondering and let Inverness  (highland council ) take all the money for themselves, well enough is enough let's turn this beautiful town and county into something everyone wants to come to.
Or should we just leave the town and fields to the big retailers to build there nice fronted buildings but the sides and backs are like prison walls and unhealthy discarded waste and let the town continue to rot ?
Bring back caithness county council.

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## crayola

Since my thread on B&B recommendations has nothing to do with the perfidious posts of the man from that other place I thought I would respond to his mendacious and malicious mutterings here on his patch. 

I am saddened that he has become so obsessed with me that he evidently believes I created that thread just because of him. This is clearly not the case. I have no personal or professional interest whatsoever in the man. 

All I want to do is to save Thurso and its people from an enormous cliff that he is mistakenly driving us towards. 

If you want first hand evidence of what would be completely destroyed by his holiday camp you should look at the Tripadvisor page for his B&B. Look at all the photos of so many fabulous views taken from there. Now think how those unique views would be completely ruined if those virgin meadows and innocent sheepies were replaced by the enormous ugliness of a holiday camp with cabins and coaches and delivery vans and car parks and walls and fences and a hotel and a restaurant and hedges and hordes of parked cars and hundreds of people and the associated rubbish they all leave behind. 

We all need to trust in our elected councillors' ability to do their jobs and execute their responsibility towards the town and its people without prejudice.

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## cptdodger

[QUOTE=crayola;1155984]Come on Raymond!

You are avoiding the question. Again!

This looks so so bad for you. /QUOTE]

And so are you, I will ask you again, why is this your "battle" ?

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## crayola

As I have iterated several times it is not my battle it is our battle. Therefore it is also your battle. Lay down your prejudices, seek out the facts and come to the right decision. The decision that the future citizens of Thurso will thank us all for getting correct.

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## cptdodger

> As I have iterated several times it is not my battle it is our battle. Therefore it is also your battle. Lay down your prejudices, seek out the facts and come to the right decision. The decision that the future citizens of Thurso will thank us all for getting correct.


Our battle ? So you actually live here do you ?

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## Shaggy

Oh Crayola....come on...to be honest if this hotel doesn't get the  go-ahead then what next? Thurso the highland ghost town? the (not so) numerous cars  and buses will get caught up in all the tumbleweed blowing through  Thurso.....will you hound the next businessperson who has a plan to open  whatever in the town? What makes you or anyone else think they have a  right to a view let alone a right to anything in this world except  oxygen? ( although a fair few could do with that priviledge being  rescinded too if you ask me!) Nobody has any right whatsoever to a view  or vista or even an outlook and if you buy a house in Thurso, the title  deeds come with the exclusive entitlement to own and enjoy a wee bit of  land and a pile of rubble usually shaped into something resembling a  house but nowhere on those deeds will it say you have any entitlement to  anything else, especially a view. I just despair (and laugh) at all the  selfish whingers who continuously object against anything whatsoever  being built anywhere on the grounds that it "might violate" their rights  to whatever reason they can think of at the time. Oh, and when are you intending moving back to Thurso again? hmm...oh you're not?....oh well...next objector step up please!

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## gaza

Crayola.
You seem to think you are our saviour and that the people of the town WE live in, need you to show us the light, it's not light we need lady, it's progress, go to any tourist destination. you won't find an overgrown field which was used as a war and worker's camp along the see front.
I think you'll find with the design and the hight of the proposed hotel will be a far more attractive and pleasing sight to the eye, than the ugly square static caravans situated to the right of the proposed development  (probably the only accommodation you'll be offerd for your visit)
So the point I make is that we are not your flock of sheep, you are not our shepherd.
Crayola please find something/someone to vent your obsession on in the place you live.

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## Raymond Taylor

> As I have iterated several times it is not my battle it is our battle. Therefore it is also your battle. Lay down your prejudices, seek out the facts and come to the right decision. The decision that the future citizens of Thurso will thank us all for getting correct.


Crayola - your getting a bit of a hard time today, I know how it feels.  It's tough battling for something you are passionate about. To be honest I don't really have that much sympathy for you as I've been at this for 22 years, Ever since my original planning application for this project got approved locally and then rejected in Inverness a couple of months later.

So my first ever direct question to you.  If the slope in these fields is 6-8m and the local councillors have the final say on any design when the detailed application is presented to them where exactly does your devestation of view come from? A 6m build would be nothing built into that slope with a flat roof.

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## Raymond Taylor

I'm am at present working on my modifications for CaSPlan which need to be in on the 11th Nov. So I have all information on my desk and it is easy to access over the next two weeks here at Pennyland House.
If anyone out there wants more info I would be more than delighted to discuss, show plans walk the site etc.  Email me on mond323@btinternet.com to organise.
I'm away to celebrate our 35th wedding anniversary W/end beginning the 5th Nov so not a huge window of opportunity but the offer is there.

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## Raymond Taylor

Need to bump this as my dearest friend seems to have gone into hiding :Frown: 

As per above, only 7 days to go except not leaving till the 11th Nov.

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## The Horseman

Crayola,
Wherefor Art Thou?
I am sure you read my other post......

What would be wrong with brightening up Thurso.....with a new Hotel?

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## Raymond Taylor

There is now 2 weeks till deadline day on this project.  Plenty information and debate here to get your teeth into so I thought I'd bump it.

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## The Horseman

I posted on a newly opened page and now it is deleted.. I guess they didn't like what I said....so I shall repeat..

I have stayed in Hotels in Thurso over the years and most of them are Olde!  The rooms are normally above the Bar or nearby, and there is a lot of noise.  When the patrons get out, one is awakened by the shouting and swearing due to the Olde contstruction and the 'thin' windows, and of course all the hotrodders driving around all nite.
I feel a nice new Hotel with a view would be quite an advantage to the Town of Thurso.  Many of the visitors to the North are 'on holiday', and would be willing and capable of paying for First Class Service a New Hotel would bring.
If one has lived in a Community all one's life, people become satisfied with the 'status quo'.  They don't want change just because.....That is their reasoning.
To build something at the 'Mart' or near the Train Station would be a disaster....As one person said, the approach to the Train Station was like a 'Midden'.
Just imagine a New Hotel with a view and a nice outside area.....Of course Weather Permitting.
I cannot understand why this was not done 20 years ago......maybe it is time to get some 'outsiders' on the Council....not the 'Olde Boys Club'.

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## pat

Totally agree with The Horseman.  
Anyone likes decent accommodation when they are not at home. 
How many Thurso folk have been in the bedrooms of the local hotels, I imagine very few know the standard of some of the accommodation and facilities in Caithness.

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## nevergiveup

..I dont agree with the location...
The remaining hotels in town will suffer and possibly close and staff made redundant....
 The marvellous views will change forever...
   Why does the hotel developer not build the hotel on opposite side of road...?It would be less subject to cliff erosion ....
Personally I wouldnt trade this view for a developers profit as that is what its all about..making money...
 The ideal spot would be Thurso Castle..
  Maybe the developer can talk to the Sinclairs....

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## mi16

> The remaining hotels in town will suffer and possibly close and staff made redundant....
> .


Why so??
The town is missing out on trade currently because of the lack of quality accommodation.

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## Goodfellers

Every town needs a mix of accomodation to suit different travellers needs. A good mix of budget hotels up to luxury standard hotels caters for all visiters to Thurso. At the moment quality beds are missing and as such this high value trade goes elsewhere. Why are some locals so resistant to change?

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## The Horseman

Then they can go and work for this new Hotel.....some of them should be closed.....how many times have you stayed in Thurso Hotel?    Some are OK......some are a disaster.  I have been there.
How many people sit on the Benches and take in the view....I don't think many do.
Cliff erosion?
Yes the developer will profit, as will the whole Town.  The last time I was in Thurso was 2 years ago, and likely every 2 years dating back quite a while, and as far as I can remember there is lots of room for 'the view'............
The increase of Tourism is quite evident...some people want a view and pay a princely price for it.
Perhaps you are a 'local'.   There is a new World here, and people are going to Caithness.  Why doesn't it all have to be the same as 50 years ago.
I appreciate your thoughts but......





> ..I dont agree with the location...
> The remaining hotels in town will suffer and possibly close and staff made redundant....
>  The marvellous views will change forever...
>    Why does the hotel developer not build the hotel on opposite side of road...?It would be less subject to cliff erosion ....
> Personally I wouldnt trade this view for a developers profit as that is what its all about..making money...
>  The ideal spot would be Thurso Castle..
>   Maybe the developer can talk to the Sinclairs....


j

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## nevergiveup

The Horseman.....further to your reply.....Yes I have stayed in several of  the local hotels and all were comfortable....not up market but value for money...and lovely staff.
  Im not against a new hotel...just the location.....
  I think you will find that its the Thurso Bay and harbour areas that draw people to Thurso and every day Ive seen people walking sitting  and enjoying  taking in the views..
 Yes you can see the Bay  from various areas however I think I would rather this area stays open rather than built up...
Burnside  is well known to have cliff erosion problems....
Plenty other sites in Thurso for the developer......

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## The Horseman

Hi,
Thanks for your Reply.  We all have our thoughts.   
I would really like to see Caithness 'lighten/liven up'.  The weather is not the best most of the time and many of the places are depressing to say the least.......I fancy a nice outside patio bar or whatever to sit on....and take in the view...and of course to the Hotel rooms....and someone is willing to Speculate.....
Crayola mentioned it would look a Horror Version of a 1970's Butlins Camp.....I doubt that very much.
I was looking at the area the last time I was over......Great view for the 'holiday maker'.    
Yes you get what you pay for....some of the places are pretty run down.  And this NC 500 is increasing the traffic....oh well...we shall see.

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## Raymond Taylor

> The Horseman.....further to your reply.....Yes I have stayed in several of  the local hotels and all were comfortable....not up market but value for money...and lovely staff.
>   Im not against a new hotel...just the location.....
>   I think you will find that its the Thurso Bay and harbour areas that draw people to Thurso and every day Ive seen people walking sitting  and enjoying  taking in the views..
>  Yes you can see the Bay  from various areas however I think I would rather this area stays open rather than built up...
> Burnside  is well known to have cliff erosion problems....
> Plenty other sites in Thurso for the developer......


The design of the site as now recommended for adoption by Highland Council planning officials will allow the view to remain almost intact.  You say "The Thurso Bay and harbour areas draw people to the town everyday" which sort of sums up why we want to allocate the hotel and park where we do, rather than the "plenty other sites" you mention.

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## nevergiveup

Visitors want to see the open vista AND the sheep in the fields.... Yes they would probably want quality affordable accommodation and good places to eat...however in my opinion I would NEVER trade this view for another hotel......
 The area would never be the same again......cars parking ..deliveries etc etc.....no no no.....

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## Goodfellers

> Visitors want to see the open vista AND the sheep in the fields.... Yes they would probably want quality affordable accommodation and good places to eat...however in my opinion I would NEVER trade this view for another hotel......
>  The area would never be the same again......cars parking ..deliveries etc etc.....no no no.....


As a regular visitor to Caithness for well over 20 years, visitors (with the money) want top quality accommodation. The rooms that command the top price always have a fantastic sea view. If sheep are what they want to see, then there are some good farm based b & b's. 

This hotel could have the potential to really help local suppliers in this part of Caithness. The bar could help promote Rock Rose Gin, Old Pulteney Whisky and I understand someone in Thursoi makes whisky? 

Local seafood from Scrabster on the menu along with the superb local meats we have.

Lets do the whole area a favour and support something this area really needs.

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## crayola

> ..I dont agree with the location...
> The remaining hotels in town will suffer axcrescencnd possibly close and staff made redundant....
>  The marvellous views will change forever...
>    Why does the hotel developer not build the hotel on opposite side of road...?It would be less subject to cliff erosion ....
> Personally I wouldnt trade this view for a developers profit as that is what its all about..making money...
>  The ideal spot would be Thurso Castle..
>   Maybe the developer can talk to the Sinclairs....


Everything you say is correct. We the people of Thurso must nevergiveup our opposition to Raymondo's fantasy of a monstrous carbuncle.

I am led to believe no upmarket hotel chain would invest in this excrescence and the best anyone could hope for is a downmarket Travelodge or worse. That is not a price worth paying to turn an exquisite sight into a downmarket tourist trap.

Build a hotel on the site of Pennyland Farm and you may succeed. Destroy the view over Victoria Walk and you destroy Thurso.

Do you really want to spend the remainder of your Earthly existence thus? I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.

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## Raymond Taylor

> Everything you say is correct. We the people of Thurso must nevergiveup our opposition to Raymondo's fantasy of a monstrous carbuncle.
> 
> I am led to believe no upmarket hotel chain would invest in this excrescence and the best anyone could hope for is a downmarket Travelodge or worse. That is not a price worth paying to turn an exquisite sight into a downmarket tourist trap.
> 
> Build a hotel on the site of Pennyland Farm and you may succeed. Destroy the view over Victoria Walk and you destroy Thurso.
> 
> Do you really want to spend the remainder of your Earthly existence thus? I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.


i refer to my reply on the Planners give go ahead to our project thread.

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