# General > Motoring >  What's with all the boy racers with backfiring cars?

## Pedro Hopper

I've noticed a huge surge in these anti-social plebs in Wick who have had their cars modified to backfire on gear change. It happens at all hours of the night. Do they think it sounds good and do they not realise/care that it's obnoxious and useless other than to draw attention to their otherwise mediocre cars?

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## dx100uk

what about keeping people and babies awake at night.

round and around like scalextrix cars all night same few cars too.

was talking to a couple of the bnb owners in the town the other night 

the guests are really complaining about them.

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## Pedro Hopper

> what about keeping people and babies awake at night.
> 
> round and around like scalextrix cars all night same few cars too.
> 
> was talking to a couple of the bnb owners in the town the other night 
> 
> the guests are really complaining about them.


Absolutely, and I don't doubt it. It must be bad for business and with them doing in excess of 40MPH routinely, it's only a matter of time before there are fatalities. 

The problem is that no one will do anything about it - parenting is a big part of it too (or lack thereof), also social responsibility is an unknown to many of the teen/tweenagers. It's really irritating. 

No wonder Wick is a shrivelling husk of what it used to be.

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## mi16

> Absolutely, and I don't doubt it. It must be bad for business and with them doing in excess of 40MPH routinely, it's only a matter of time before there are fatalities. 
> 
> The problem is that no one will do anything about it - parenting is a big part of it too (or lack thereof), also social responsibility is an unknown to many of the teen/tweenagers. It's really irritating. 
> 
> No wonder Wick is a shrivelling husk of what it used to be.


When was the last fatal RTA in Wick?

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## Pedro Hopper

> When was the last fatal RTA in Wick?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=matter+of+time

Plus, I didn't explicitly say _RTA_ fatality - If one of these B&B owners/parents/otherwise disgruntled citizens gets a hold of them...

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## mi16

Its only a matter of time until the next ice age also

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## Xenophon

There appear to be a number of options here, over and above bewailing  the iniquity of how other folk behave on an Interweb forum.

Firstly,  contact the Community Policing Team at Wick police station. It is part  of their job to deal with stuff like this. This works on the basis that  as the fuzz aren't actually omnipotent then 'information received'  might be of use to them.

More importantly, it will also generate an incident number.

I  mention this, as the Police have something called the 'Multi Ward  Member Team' who have produced a report for the last two years which  outline some of the concerns you raise. Unfortunately, the reports for  the last two years that are available (2013 and 2014) appear to be  almost identical in their content; this means that there is either no  progress on this issue or they feel able to just publish the same old  nonsense and hope nobody notices.

As such, if you really want to  have any influence on these issues, you first of all need to actively  engage the police about your concerns; if there is still no apparent  progress, then contacting with your local councillor to address the issue  may be the way to go.

Lastly, as irritating (ie, blood-pressure  raising to the point of self-detonation) as it might be, please try to  remember we were (mostly) all young and daft at some point; I could  quite easily see myself at their age doing something so annoying and  only age and experience has left me slightly less stupid that I once  was. There are better ways than immediately going all mediaeval  armageddon on the poor deluded chavs.

Peace, love and understading, how hard can it be?

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## Pedro Hopper

> Its only a matter of time until the next ice age also


Short, pointless, irrelevant and immature.

Thanks for that.

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## mi16

> Short, pointless, irrelevant and immature.
> 
> Thanks for that.


As was your earlier post chief, dont serve what you cannot eat.

Back on track, if the cars are illegal in modification or being driven illegaly then its a matter for the police.
If they are not then the lads are free to drive them where and when they please.
If the B&B guests are displeased then I am sure they can get suitable digs elsewhere.

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## bothyman

Hopefully if the Car is modified in any way (exhaust etc) they have told their Insurance company of the modification?? otherwise the Insurance company may not payout, if they have an accident.
The question is are they legally insured to drive the vehicle??..

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## mi16

All mods must be declared to the insurance.
Towbars, audio the lot
I cannot see why they would not inform the insurance

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## abz02

> All mods must be declared to the insurance.
> Towbars, audio the lot
> I cannot see why they would not inform the insurance


 It's a matter of respect which none of them have, especially in the early hours, modifications declared or not there is still a noise limit on exhausts. and like you say is a matter for the police.

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## mi16

> It's a matter of respect which none of them have, especially in the early hours, modifications declared or not there is still a noise limit on exhausts. and like you say is a matter for the police.


 An exhaust cannot be sold I the uk for road use unless it meets noise regulations.If the car is legal, it can be driven wherever, whenever

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## Pedro Hopper

> An exhaust cannot be sold I the uk for road use unless it meets noise regulations.If the car is legal, it can be driven wherever, whenever


Obviously, if the exhaust is modified, the manufacturer clearly has no responsibility for this and can not design this out. It also obviously depends on the configuration of the rest of the car, for example longer duration cams will cause the exhaust valve(s) to be held open longer, allowing still-burning cylinder charge out.

I think it's safe to assume by your user name and fierce defence of this heinous, antisocial behaviour, that your are the owner of such a car?

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## mi16

You can assume whatever you like.I am not defending anything apart from perhaps a persons right to drive a road legal car where and when they want.So how do you modify an exhaust to make the car backfire?

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## Pedro Hopper

You do like to misrepresent people, don't you?  :Wink:  I didn't say modify the exhaust _to make the car backfire_, I said only "if the exhaust is modified". Scroll up and re-read. My point is, even if an exhaust is legal at the time of sale, if one were to remove the cat or silencers from the exhaust system, there would be a significant noise increase.

But surely you acknowledge that an overly-noisy car is antisocial to some people? How would you feel if you were to, say, have an elderly relative or infant who was constantly woken up by such noise? Or a business which was being negatively affected, like the poster who mentioned the B&B?

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## mi16

The vehicle with the modified exhaust will of course be subject to an annaul MOT (assuming it is a minimum of 3 years old) test, where a diligant tester will pick up on the fact that the CAT has been removed (a CAT however is an emissions reduction device and not necessarily a silencer) or if it is making excessive noise.
Antisocial is a matter of opinion, noise emissions are quantifiable and measurable.

The point on relatives or infants depends on if the vehicle was excessively noisy by definition of the law or not.

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## Pedro Hopper

> The vehicle with the modified exhaust will of course  be subject to an annaul MOT (assuming it is a minimum of 3 years old)  test, where a diligant tester will pick up on the fact that the CAT has  been removed (a CAT however is an emissions reduction device and not  necessarily a silencer) or if it is making excessive noise.
> Antisocial is a matter of opinion, noise emissions are quantifiable and measurable.
> 
> The point on relatives or infants depends on if the vehicle was excessively noisy by definition of the law or not.


Thanks for the edit, it was a little mindless before. Removal of a cat will cause an increase in noise in almost all applications. Also, looking at it from a legal standpoint:

https://www.gov.uk/noise-pollution-r...e-noise-limits

_"The police can also take action if your vehicle’s silencer doesn’t work  in the way it was designed or if you’re driving in a way that creates  too much noise."

_That final part is definitely the point of the post_,_ so from that point of view, an offence *is* being committed, and by "definition of the law" as you put it. Like all things of this nature however, they are complaint-driven, so I would advise all persons who are affected by this to drop an email to:LandwardCaithnessCPT@Scotland.pnn.police.ukThe more people who complain, the more likely it will be that something will be done about it.

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## mi16

> Thanks for the edit, it was a little mindless before. Removal of a cat will cause an increase in noise in almost all applications. Also, looking at it from a legal standpoint:
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/noise-pollution-r...e-noise-limits
> 
> _"The police can also take action if your vehicle’s silencer doesn’t work  in the way it was designed or if you’re driving in a way that creates  too much noise."
> 
> _That final part is definitely the point of the post_,_ so from that point of view, an offence *is* being committed, and by "definition of the law" as you put it. Like all things of this nature however, they are complaint-driven, so I would advise all persons who are affected by this to drop an email to:LandwardCaithnessCPT@Scotland.pnn.police.ukThe more people who complain, the more likely it will be that something will be done about it.


Not necessarily no, for example a turbocharger does the majority of silencing in vehicles equipped with one.
Indeed, the point I am making is the "too much noise" is quantifiable and measureable i.e the police can measure a vehicles noise emissions with a suitably calibrated decibel meter then it is black and white if it is too noisy or not.
As plagiarised from the DFT website
"The current noise test for passenger cars, as set out in EU Directive 92/97 
as amended, consists of driving the vehicle into the test area at a speed of 50 
km/hr and then accelerating at full throttle through it past a microphone. The 
microphone is placed at a set distance from the line of travel and it measures 
the maximum level of noise reached which is then compared to the limit value to 
determine whether the vehicle passes or fails.
The test area is surrounded by an open area to avoid sound reflections and 
the road surface is carefully constructed to a set standard to ensure 
consistency of results."


However there is another angle which may be excessive revving of the engine or noise pollution from car audio, however that is not the subject matter of the thread.

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## Pedro Hopper

> However there is another angle which may be excessive revving of the engine or noise pollution from car audio, however that is not the subject matter of the thread.


Contrarily, the revving is a implicit in them making the car backfire; over-revving on gearchange, so it is very much on topic. 

Car audio is another thing.... and they're sort of punishing themselves.

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## mi16

> Contrarily, the revving is a implicit in them making the car backfire; over-revving on gearchange, so it is very much on topic..


I dont think so, rev limiters are there to prevent over revving of cars, of course an idiot sitting on the rev limiter could be mistaken for backfiring but it is not.
Modern high performance turbocharged cars will pop on gearshift occassionally, more often with a sports exhaust system.
Non turbocharged cars will tend to backfire if they are poorly set up or done deliberately via overrun and control of ignition key, but that only works on carbs which are few and far between these days.

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## Pedro Hopper

> I dont think so, rev limiters are there to prevent over revving of cars, of course an idiot sitting on the rev limiter could be mistaken for backfiring but it is not.
> Modern high performance turbocharged cars will pop on gearshift occassionally, more often with a sports exhaust system.
> Non turbocharged cars will tend to backfire if they are poorly set up or done deliberately via overrun and control of ignition key, but that only works on carbs which are few and far between these days.


Not sure if straw-manning me intentionally...

I'm not talking about bouncing off the rev limiter, just excessively revving the engine in order to make this effect happen. Hitting the rev limiter sounds *nothing* like the noise I am talking about at gear change. And it's not occasionally, it can be apparently made to happen at will.

The cars I am talking about are most likely remapped injection cars for the most part and it also seems as though they may be fitted with longer duration cams and sports exhausts, as previously stated.

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## mi16

> The cars I am talking about are most likely remapped injection cars for the most part and it also seems as though they may be fitted with longer duration cams and sports exhausts, as previously stated.


Nope I am not buying that.

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## Pedro Hopper

> Nope I am not buying that.


That's your prerogative. I'd like to hear other peoples' opinions on the matter too.

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## mi16

> That's your prerogative. I'd like to hear other peoples' opinions on the matter too.


Sports exhausts, yes absolutely
Chipped or remapped possibly, more likely to be on a turbo car then a run of the mill fuel injected car.
Lumpy cams, Id be interested to hear your evidence for believing that they are changing out their exhaust cam?

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## Pedro Hopper

> Sports exhausts, yes absolutely
> Chipped or remapped possibly, more likely to be on a turbo car then a run of the mill fuel injected car.
> Lumpy cams, Id be interested to hear your evidence for believing that they are changing out their exhaust cam?


25 years' experience with cars?

But the point of the thread is the *noise* and social impact of the behaviour, not the nature of the modifications which their cars do or don't have.

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## mi16

> 25 years' experience with cars?
> 
> But the point of the thread is the *noise* and social impact of the behaviour, not the nature of the modifications which their cars do or don't have.


As I thgought, zero evidence whatsoever
My point is that assuming they are MOT'd and not being prosecuted by the police, then they are road legal, therefore there is no issue here.

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## Pedro Hopper

> As I thgought, zero evidence whatsoever
> My point is that assuming they are MOT'd and not being prosecuted by the police, then they are road legal, therefore there is no issue here.


Why are you so hung up on the technical details? I have listed several possible reasons of how the cars may be making this noise - it is not the point of the thread to perform any kind of diagnosis on *how* it happens, I've only speculated on reasons that I know of which *could* be causal factors. Do you not understand this? The point of this thread was to gather opinions on the noise and antisocial behaviour underlying, stay on topic. You have given your opinion of a "box-checked", technically legal stand point which I respect, but do not agree with.

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## mi16

OK my apologies.
Let me rephrase
If the law of the land says it is ok, then why do you think otherwise?

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## Pedro Hopper

> OK my apologies.
> Let me rephrase
> If the law of the land says it is ok, then why do you think otherwise?


Just because t_o the exact letter of the law*_ people can get away with it, it does not necessarily follow that it is socially acceptable. 

*In fact, referencing again the link to the police Scotland site I made earlier, the definition of noise nuisance from cars does cover this type of complaint, it's weak because it is implied, not explicitly stated, and therefore not a defined modality of offence. The problem is that there is currently no element in the MOT test which caters to the detection for in-motion/transient noise, nor police equipment to tests for this.

More abstractly. the whole crux of the thread is that drivers of these cars are either not thinking about how their behaviour and driving style affects their community, or just simply don't care. I suspect the latter.

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## dx100uk

I wonder where section 59 sits in all this.

looking at the many police tv shows
they use this all the time on anti-social behaviour
by the boy racers.

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## upolian

Backfiring is unburnt fuel in the exhaust,on over run/gear change it ignites excessive fuel, its down to the standard map on the ecu not being re-calibrated to suit the modifications,

Removing a catalytic convertor will increase power/emissions,they are restrictive.

Look at the standard Map on a Focus ST and you will see they slightly overfuel on over run,so pop and bang from the factory in standard form,a worn cat on these cars can cause more predomenant backfiring

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## camor

Leave them alone, they're just young lads and lassies enjoying themselves. All this technical jargon about misfires doesn't matter. It's the old story, just cos you don't like something everybody else has to dislike it too. These kids are hardly criminal masterminds carrying out all sorts of badness, give them a break cos we were all young once.

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## dx100uk

works both ways

give the towns' residences and businesses a break from the noise of the same few cars going around and around the same routes disturbing them all night

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## Pedro Hopper

> Leave them alone, they're just young lads and lassies enjoying themselves. All this technical jargon about misfires doesn't matter. It's the old story, just cos you don't like something everybody else has to dislike it too. These kids are hardly criminal masterminds carrying out all sorts of badness, give them a break cos we were all young once.


That's not in question, but why should the disrespectful behaviour of a few people be tolerated when it offends and adversely affects a great many people? This is the definition of anti-communal.

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## abz02

> An exhaust cannot be sold I the uk for road use unless it meets noise regulations.If the car is legal, it can be driven wherever, whenever


What a load of crap ! might have legal exhaust but what about the catalytic converters they rip out? hence backfiring, as for regulations you can buy whatever you want it's up to you where you decide to use it.

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## davth

> What a load of crap ! might have legal exhaust but what about the catalytic converters they rip out? hence backfiring, as for regulations you can buy whatever you want it's up to you where you decide to use it.


As with anything in life, it is up to the individual if they wish to abide by the law.

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## dx100uk

Fit's in 'e Groat 'e day?		 John O Groat Journal headlines for May 15, 2015


 A  MAJOR coach tour operator has threatened to scrap visits to John O  Groats if the turning circle and parking facilities at the end of the  road are not retained under new development plans for the tourist  hotspot.  Shearings Holidays claims it will have no choice but to remove  the Caithness landmark from its schedules if it receives no reassurance  about access for coaches as part of regeneration plans being proposed  by leisure firm, Natural Retreats.

*TOURISTS   from Moray have accused boy racers of ruining Wick as a holiday  destination, claiming antisocial driving resulted in them cutting short  their vacation.  Shirley Brand said her caravan holiday with her husband  across the north coast of Sutherlan and Caithness was spoiled by the  noise of loud exhausts and screeching tyres in the town. 
*
 TWO  police officers were forced to wade into Wick River to help a young  woman who had ignored pleas from onlookers to get out of the water.  The  drama happened on Tuesday afternoon near the town's Service Bridge at  the mouth of the river which flows out to the sea through Wick Harbour.

 THE  devastation caused by the earthquake in Nepal was "like something you  only see in a disaster movie".  That was how Caithness nurse Steph  Sinclair, who survived the quake and helped treat the injured, described  the scenes she encountered in Kathmandu.

 THE  grandson of a well-known Caithness farm family has been bestowed one of  a Borders' town's biggest honours in the same week as the second   anniversary of his brother's death.  Gregor Hepburn, grandson of the  late Dan and Betty Coghill, of Skinnet, Halkirk, has been named as the  Hawick Cornet of this year's Common Riding season.

 A  CHARITY is buzzing after being awarded almost £120,000 to help  safeguard one of the last great  bumblebee strongholds in the UK - in  Caithness. The Bumblee Conservation Trust has received £116,880 from the  Heritage Lottery Fund to launch its project Thurso Gateway to the Great  Yellow in Caithness. 

 THURSO can  claim to be the home of one of the best steak pies in Scotland after  Reid's of Caithness won national  recognition at the Scottish Baker of  the Year Awards.  The firm picked up a national bronze award for its  steak pie as well as clinching the top award for its fruit scone and a  silver accolade for its multi-seed bread in the north region category.

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## Gronnuck

> *TOURISTS   from Moray have accused boy racers of ruining Wick as a holiday  destination, claiming antisocial driving resulted in them cutting short  their vacation.  Shirley Brand said her caravan holiday with her husband  across the north coast of Sutherlan and Caithness was spoiled by the  noise of loud exhausts and screeching tyres in the town.
> *


Wick, a holiday destination?  They must be having a laugh! 
Caravans are for touring so they would not be spending many nights in Wick.  If they could hear the noise of loud exhausts and screeching tyres across the river and upstream from the Norseman Car Park so what?  They would know that at least they didn't have to live with it.
Part of the joy of touring with a caravan is knowing that whatever you experience it will only be for as long as you want to experience it then you move on.

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## dx100uk

well at least they can move on

we cant ..

night after night after night..same ole..noise

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## Samshaks

I guess it's a matter of time.

airport limo sydney | sydney airport limo | limo services

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## gaza

> Leave them alone, they're just young lads and lassies enjoying themselves. All this technical jargon about misfires doesn't matter. It's the old story, just cos you don't like something everybody else has to dislike it too. These kids are hardly criminal masterminds carrying out all sorts of badness, give them a break cos we were all young once.


Time to pick on the older men and woman who cana go round a corner properly and forget to put there lights on and can't see 10 yards in front of them selves, also the oldies who think you can still put a clear bulb in an indicator lens, drive with low tyre pressure, and think they can park in the middle of the road and go get a paper, and never, never see a biker coming. I could easily go on and on about them.
Time they had to resit a test after they reach 60, or at least a compulsory EYE test ! ! !

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## dozy

> Time to pick on the older men and woman who cana go round a corner properly and forget to put there lights on and can't see 10 yards in front of them selves, also the oldies who think you can still put a clear bulb in an indicator lens, drive with low tyre pressure, and think they can park in the middle of the road and go get a paper, and never, never see a biker coming. I could easily go on and on about them.
> Time they had to resit a test after they reach 60, or at least a compulsory EYE test ! ! !


a government survey into brain development proved that you need to be over 25 years of age before you should be allowed the drive . Would you agree or has your brain not reached this threshold.

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## gaza

> a government survey into brain development proved that you need to be over 25 years of age before you should be allowed the drive . Would you agree or has your brain not reached this threshold.


That should read,
Allowed TO drive
Eh ?
56 and a holder of many categories of licence, and happy to be reassessed as I already have to, to hold my plant operators ticket's. 
And you ?
When you reach a certain age do you think you should be reassessed?

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## Lingland

Careful what you wish for with any luck you will be 60 one day too. : )

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## davth

> Time to pick on the older men and woman who cana go round a corner properly and forget to put there lights on and can't see 10 yards in front of them selves, also the oldies who think you can still put a clear bulb in an indicator lens, drive with low tyre pressure, and think they can park in the middle of the road and go get a paper, and never, never see a biker coming. I could easily go on and on about them.
> Time they had to resit a test after they reach 60, or at least a compulsory EYE test ! ! !


Why would you put a bulb in your cars lights? bulbs go in the ground, lamps go in lights. Do you plan on using a daffodil to inform others of your intended direction change?
A surgeon can still perform brain surgery at 60, they don't need to re do their training why would a 60 year old motorist?
A better option would be for new drivers to complete a resit annually for 5 years after passing their test to ensure that they do not forget the rules of the road and drive with consideration for other road users.

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## gaza

> Why would you put a bulb in your cars lights? bulbs go in the ground, lamps go in lights. Do you plan on using a daffodil to inform others of your intended direction change?
> A surgeon can still perform brain surgery at 60, they don't need to re do their training why would a 60 year old motorist?
> A better option would be for new drivers to complete a resit annually for 5 years after passing their test to ensure that they do not forget the rules of the road and drive with consideration for other road users.


New cars have clear indicator lenses requiring a yellow BUIB.
Many certificates and licences require refresher training so as to continue in their profession.
First aiders, machine operators, lorry drivers, etc.
Your 60 year old surgeon (took a bit longer than a 40 min test) operating on your brain better be able to see, and I can assure you, through out his career he will be assessed continuously, unlike drivers who can pass a 40 minute test, not drive for years, send off a bit of paper, get it renewed, jump in car.
We should ALL be assessed at intervals so as to be SAFE and not take someones life away.

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## weeker2014

> Why would you put a bulb in your cars lights? bulbs go in the ground, lamps go in lights. Do you plan on using a daffodil to inform others of your intended direction change?
> A surgeon can still perform brain surgery at 60, they don't need to re do their training why would a 60 year old motorist?
> A better option would be for new drivers to complete a resit annually for 5 years after passing their test to ensure that they do not forget the rules of the road and drive with consideration for other road users.


To be fair they are bulbs:

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/s...&storeId=10001

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## davth

> To be fair they are bulbs:
> 
> http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/s...&storeId=10001



no they are not
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamp_(...cal_component)
http://www.osram.com/osram_com/tools...9303860D92B2D0

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## abz02

> You can assume whatever you like.I am not defending anything apart from perhaps a persons right to drive a road legal car where and when they want.So how do you modify an exhaust to make the car backfire?


 By removing both catalytic converters on a turbo charged car, which also makes it illegal and wont meet noise regulations.

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## dx100uk

http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...=thurso+racers

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## dx100uk

YOUNG motorists are being offered the opportunity to improve their driving skills, free of charge, in an attempt to tackle anti-social driving in towns and villages in Caithness.  The Roadwise Project is giving people, aged between 17 and 25, the chance to take part in the Pass Plus Course, without it costing them a penny.

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## davth

Well that will get them off the streets

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## dx100uk

http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/...t-04062013.htm

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## sids

> no they are not
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamp_(...cal_component)
> http://www.osram.com/osram_com/tools...9303860D92B2D0



Do I even need to tell you what every known English dictionary says?

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## dx100uk

http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/...s-08102016.htm


POLICE have reported a significant drop in the number of antisocial driving complaints in Thurso as part of a campaign to tackle the issue.

The recent effort saw local officers working with the divisional roads policing unit to engage with drivers to promote a positive attitude towards driving and enforce the relevant rules of the road.

They issued five fixed-penalty notices for exhaust offences, 
six antisocial behaviour orders against drivers 
and detected a number of other offences.

The town has in recent years had a particular problem with anti-social driving 
with local councillors having reported seeing motorists speeding down residential streets, 
with another issue being high-powered cars and noisy exhaust systems. 

They suggested people could make a log of the problems to reveal a pattern of behaviour which could be tackled by police.

The police were keen to target speeding, careless and inconsiderate driving, racing, *noisy exhausts*, drivers causing excessive or unnecessary noise and vehicle defects.

As part of the campaign officers also ran two drop-in advice sessions and conducted numerous speed checks at various locations in and around Thurso.

The campaign has now finished but officers are keen to remind motorists that Police Scotland will continue with high-visibility patrols and will take action regarding antisocial driving and other road traffic offences in Thurso.

.......................

shouldn't be to difficult with a bit o help.......to identify the less than 10 cars that pop away here night after night....

coming to wick soon...silence of a evening ...at last...

dx

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## gaza

> http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/...s-08102016.htm
> 
> 
> POLICE have reported a significant drop in the number of antisocial driving complaints in Thurso as part of a campaign to tackle the issue.
> 
> The recent effort saw local officers working with the divisional roads policing unit to engage with drivers to promote a positive attitude towards driving and enforce the relevant rules of the road.
> 
> They issued five fixed-penalty notices for exhaust offences, 
> six antisocial behaviour orders against drivers 
> ...


Here we go again.
It's all very well having a dig at the youngsters of today modifying there motors and adding upgrades and making there presence felt, after all that's how mankind and technology evolves, we all did it one-way or another, yes they'll get gurned at, find and prosecuted, driving points and the like, that's what life and progress is about, THAT'S the thrill.
Wish I had my youth back,  o well 10 o'clock time for bed.

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## Teal

> Here we go again.
> It's all very well having a dig at the youngsters of today modifying there motors and adding upgrades and making there presence felt, after all that's how mankind and technology evolves, we all did it one-way or another, yes they'll get gurned at, find and prosecuted, driving points and the like, that's what life and progress is about.


Except, these kids aren't evolving anything. They are making no progress. Wasting money on fuel and pointless noise mods isn't technology advancing it is stupidity.

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## mi16

> Except, these kids aren't evolving anything. They are making no progress. Wasting money on fuel and pointless noise mods isn't technology advancing it is stupidity.


The vehicle modification and accessories industry is massive in the UK, I cant remember the figures but it runs into the billions I think.
If no one carried out the mods be it for performance, economy, appearance, sound, safety or whatever then we would all still be driving about in the maxi or metro, as cars would be sen as just an item to get one from A to B. In reality it is much more than that, used as an extension to a persons soul in some cases, some folk spend a lot more time behind the wheel than they do in their own home.

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## sids

> The vehicle modification and accessories industry is massive in the UK, I cant remember the figures but it runs into the billions I think.
> If no one carried out the mods be it for performance, economy, appearance, sound, safety or whatever then we would all still be driving about in the maxi or metro, as cars would be sen as just an item to get one from A to B. In reality it is much more than that, used as an extension to a persons soul in some cases, some folk spend a lot more time behind the wheel than they do in their own home.


Then they grow up.

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## mi16

> Then they grow up.


Perhaps
You see many sales reps that spend 6 hours a day in the car though.
HGV drivers, Bus driver, taxi drivers all spend extended periods driving
There is barely a car I have owned that I havent altered in some way, these days its not looks or go faster parts though.
But I normally bolt on a towbar, add in a split charger, set of all terrain tyres etc etc

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## sids

> Perhaps
> You see many sales reps that spend 6 hours a day in the car though.
> HGV drivers, Bus driver, taxi drivers all spend extended periods driving



They're the grown-ups, who are using motor vehicles to travel and transport, from A to B.




> There is barely a car I have owned that I havent altered in some way, these days its not looks or go faster parts though.
> But I normally bolt on a towbar, add in a split charger, set of all terrain tyres etc etc


Yes, quite.

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## mi16

> They're the grown-ups, who are using motor vehicles to travel and transport, from A to B.


Every journey is from A to B, some do it for pleasure and some for purpose.
As long as the vehicles are road legal and driven within the law then there really is no issue.

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## gaza

> Perhaps
> You see many sales reps that spend 6 hours a day in the car though.
> HGV drivers, Bus driver, taxi drivers all spend extended periods driving
> There is barely a car I have owned that I havent altered in some way, these days its not looks or go faster parts though.
> But I normally bolt on a towbar, add in a split charger, set of all terrain tyres etc etc


Towbar ! !
Bet a remap has crossed your mind ?

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## mi16

> Towbar ! !
> Bet a remap has crossed your mind ?


On more than one occasion,never went for it though.

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## gaza

> On more than one occasion,never went for it though.


I did,
Big improvement on torque and fuel consumption.

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## mi16

> I did,
> Big improvement on torque and fuel consumption.


I was not keen on letting some random with a laptop muck about with my ECU,I have however had positive reviews on a chap from Orkney who will travel to you to do the job,I may well take him up on it.

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