# General > Politics >  SNP tantrums

## orkneycadian

To any readers from south of the border, over the Welsh one or over the water in Northern Ireland.

We up here in Scotland are really embarrassed by the childish behaviour of some of our MP's in Westminster today.  As a Scot, albeit a fairly Vikingish one, all I can say is sorry on behalf of some of my fellow country people for their completely gormless behaviour.  Only 36.9% of the votes cast, and 24.4% of eligible electorate wanted this useless bunch in the 2017 general election, so its far from representational of us up here.  Please don't think we are all as childish as this gang.

I thought that when "Fat Angus" lost his seat, that we could portray a better image in the House of Commons.  Alas, we now have "Fat Ian" who as well as trying to follow in Angus's footsteps in terms of shirt collar size, is also trying to keep up the image that all us Scots have no manners or ability to follow protocols.

Please don't think we are all like that.  Its quite nice up hear.  Really

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## Mr P Cannop

you will see when scotland gets nothing due to what westminster is doing !!!!

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## orkneycadian

Scotland has already shown its not able to run the country better than Westminster.  Of all the powers that Holyrood have been given, they have largely failed to make use of them to make a difference.  As an experiment, devolution was interesting, but not worth it.  Look at Northern Ireland, unable to even form a devolved government for 18 months. 

For Scotland, just another tier of bureaucracy.  If we can get rid of that tier, and the one above Westminster in Brussels, we'll do an awful lot better.

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## dozy

The Westminster Jack boot brigade are alive and well . What's next saltire flag burning and a cattle cart train ride for a shower and a new beginning .

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## sids

> The Westminster Jack boot brigade are alive and well . What's next saltire flag burning and a cattle cart train ride for a shower and a new beginning .


I’m declaring Godwin’s!

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## Goodfellers

Radio 4 are running a programme about what would happen to the UK if civil war broke out. ……… Let's all be friends.....it's safer and easier.  Doesn't the SNP support a re-uniting of Ireland, yet want to split the UK up? Or is that just pub gossip? 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/arti...dio4_sm_mid_c3

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## Maggie747

To any readers from south of the border, over the Welsh one or over the water in Northern Ireland.

We up here in Scotland were really proud of some of our MP's in Westminster yesterday. As a Scot, all I can say is thank goodness someone is sticking up for us.  Although only 36.9% of the votes cast, and 24.4% of the eligible electorate wanted this fantastic set of MP's in the 2017 general election, we hope that they increase their share of the votes next time, when everyone realised what a great job they are doing.

They could not portray a better image in the House of Commons.  We also recognise that they keep up the image that all us Scots have perfect manners and the ability to follow protocols, even when confronted with extreme prejudice. 

Its really nice up here in Caithness, it's really nice all over Scotland and the Scottish Government want to keep it that way.

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## orkneycadian

> Although only 36.9% of the votes cast, and 24.4% of the eligible electorate wanted this fantastic set of MP's in the 2017 general election, we hope that they increase their share of the votes next time, when everyone realised what a great job they are doing.


Given that between the general elections in 2015 and 2017,  the share of the votes cast for the SNP fell from 50% to 36.9%, and the percentage of the eligible electorate who voted for them fell from 35.8% to 24.4%, this seems quite a bold aspiration.

Having your votes fall by roughly 25% and 33% respectively, is not something you would normally associate with "doing a great job".  In fact, it could be seen as quite the opposite.

I guess this is one of the reasons for the latest push for the unwanted next chapter in the Neverendum.  Hopes must be high that the surge in the general election of 2015 can be repeated again, a year after the previous Neverendum.  I guess this is important to them, as at the present rate of decline, the SNP will become very much an also ran in the next elections.

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## Maggie747

Given that between the general elections in 2015 and 2017, the share of the votes cast for the SNP fell from 50% to 36.9%, and the percentage of the eligible electorate who voted for them fell from 35.8% to 24.4%, this seems quite a bold aspiration. An aspiration worth having, non-the-less and certainly not unachievable. 

Having your votes fall by roughly 25% and 33% respectively, is not something you would normally associate with "doing a great job". In fact, it could be seen as quite the opposite. Of course if the press and opposition politicians who rubbish your achievements; put you down at every turn and generally attempt to discredit; you were more honest and trustworthy then we might see a fairer reflection of the true worth of our Scottish Government. 

I guess this is one of the reasons for the latest, much needed, push for the desperately wanted Referendum.  Hopes are very high that after the general election results of 2015 and this never ending Brexit travesty that the Scottish Government, led by the SNP, will make the people of Scotland the winners.

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## Goodfellers

Who is the referendum 'desperately' wanted by? No one I know that's for sure. Maybe by the less well off in the central belt who have been promised Nirvana by the SNP or the people on benefits who have been promised more than the country can afford. Tell me, who is going to pay for all these promises, I'll tell you, the hard working middle classes who will eventually leave Scotland (or never come here in the first place).

The SNP claim they want mass immigration (apart from the English, obviously) but who will want to come to a country of higher taxation compared to the rest of the UK?

Scotland lags behind the rest of the UK in terms of output, why? Can't blame that on Westminster as the three other countries of the UK are doing far better?

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## orkneycadian

> Given that between the general elections in 2015 and 2017, the share of the votes cast for the SNP fell from 50% to 36.9%, and the percentage of the eligible electorate who voted for them fell from 35.8% to 24.4%, this seems quite a bold aspiration. An aspiration worth having, non-the-less and certainly not unachievable. 
> 
> Having your votes fall by roughly 25% and 33% respectively, is not something you would normally associate with "doing a great job". In fact, it could be seen as quite the opposite. Of course if the press and opposition politicians who rubbish your achievements; put you down at every turn and generally attempt to discredit; you were more honest and trustworthy then we might see a fairer reflection of the true worth of our Scottish Government. 
> 
> I guess this is one of the reasons for the latest, much needed, push for the desperately wanted Referendum.  Hopes are very high that after the general election results of 2015 and this never ending Brexit travesty that the Scottish Government, led by the SNP, will make the people of Scotland the winners.


I really must get this phone line fixed.  It has a terrible echo.....

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## orkneycadian

> Who is the referendum 'desperately' wanted by? No one I know that's for sure. Maybe by the less well off in the central belt who have been promised Nirvana by the SNP or the people on benefits who have been promised more than the country can afford. Tell me, who is going to pay for all these promises, I'll tell you, the hard working middle classes who will eventually leave Scotland (or never come here in the first place).


_A March 2018 poll by Ipsos Mori found that 42% of Scots supported holding a second referendum within the next three years, compared to 47% who opposed one; 8% said that they neither supported or opposed a referendum being held within this timescale. Support for a referendum was highest among sixteen to thirty-four year-olds, the unemployed, charity workers, council house dwellers and people living in the 20% of most deprived areas in Scotland. Opposition was greatest from people aged over fifty-five, retirees, homeowners and people with no formal qualifications.[104]_

Source = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propos...pinion_polling

I guess then that since only 42% want a referendum, they must be feeling pretty desperate, as thats even less than the percentage of folk that voted Yes last time

And I see from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...h_independence that the lead for No richochets anywhere between 4% and 14% since the general election last year.  Now, I am no statistician, and there are probably more precise ways to do it, but the average (add up the numbers and divide by the number of numbers) lead for no, using that source, over that period is 9.45%.  Just over 1% less than the 10.6% lead that No had in the last official Neverendum.  As I think they use a 3% margin of error in those polls, then as far as I can see, things have not changed since the 2014 Neverendum.

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## Maggie747

Who is the referendum 'desperately' wanted by? Every one I know that's for sure. Including the less well off in the central belt who have been promised fairness by the Scottish Government or the people on benefits who have been promised a fair deal. Tell me, who is going to pay for all these promises, I'll tell you, all of the people of Scotland. Sounds fair.

The Scottish government claim they want a reasonable amount of immigration (including the English, obviously). Many of whom have already come to a country which offers better standards in Health Care, Social Care and with a more caring attitude. And they are welcome here. Higher taxation compared to the rest of the UK is needed to pay for it, well why not?

Scotland lags behind the rest of the UK in terms of output, why?  Blame that on Westminster as they refuse to invest in anywhere other than the South East, and I don't mean the Lothians and the Borders.

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## Maggie747

_A March 2018 poll by Ipsos Mori found that 42% of Scots supported holding a second referendum within the next three years, compared to 47% who opposed one; 8% said that they neither supported or opposed a referendum being held within this timescale._ _I guess then that since only 42% want a referendum, they must be feeling pretty desperate, as thats even less than the percentage of folk that voted Yes last time


No, I think what you quote says that 42% are for a referendum if it was held in the next 3 years. Not that only 42% want a referendum on Independence.

And I see from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...h_independence that the lead for No richochets anywhere between 4% and 14% since the general election last year. Now, I am no statistician, and there are probably more precise ways to do it, but the average (add up the numbers and divide by the number of numbers) lead for no, using that source, over that period is 9.45%. Just over 1% less than the 10.6% lead that No had in the last official Referendum. As I think they use a 3% margin of error in those polls, then as far as I can see, things have not changed since the 2014 Referendum.

I won't argue the margin of statistical error, I agree that probably nothing has changed since the last 2014 Referendum as far as that opinion poll goes.

__Support for a referendum was highest among sixteen to thirty-four year-olds, the unemployed, charity workers, council house dwellers and people living in the 20% of most deprived areas in Scotland. Opposition was greatest from people aged over fifty-five, retirees, homeowners and people with no formal qualifications.[104]

If we consider the statement above it would typify me as aged 16-34, perhaps unemployed, living in social housing and in the central belt.
It would typify you as being aged over 55, perhaps retired, own your own home and have no formal qualifications. 

I'm very happy to say that I do not conform to either of these stereotypical, polarised categories produced by that opinion poll. 

_

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## mi16

We are already taxed heavier than the rest of the UK and for what?
Potholes roads, broken policing etc

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## Goodfellers

> Who is the referendum 'desperately' wanted by? Every one I know that's for sure. Including the less well off in the central belt who have been promised fairness by the Scottish Government or the people on benefits who have been promised a fair deal. Tell me, who is going to pay for all these promises, I'll tell you, all of the people of Scotland. Sounds fair.
> 
> The Scottish government claim they want a reasonable amount of immigration (including the English, obviously). Many of whom have already come to a country which offers better standards in Health Care, Social Care and with a more caring attitude. And they are welcome here. Higher taxation compared to the rest of the UK is needed to pay for it, well why not?
> 
> Scotland lags behind the rest of the UK in terms of output, why?  Blame that on Westminster as they refuse to invest in anywhere other than the South East, and I don't mean the Lothians and the Borders.


I think you have summed up all the fears of the working population of Scotland. I know the SNP want us all to be 'equal', by that they mean 'take from the better off to give to the less well off'.....how about trying to make the poorer better off by improving basic education and skill levels?

If the SNP want us all to be 'equal', how about making the unemployed get up at 5am (like a lot of us) and forcing them to carry out community work projects for a minimum of 8 solid hours a day? in exchange for any of my hard earned tax money.

I was waiting for the usual SNP mantra 'blame Westminster', it's not our fault we have made a complete ..(insert whatever words you want)...of the economy, education, the roads, the health service, and anything else they touch, it's always someone else's fault.

More of the population might support independence if it wasn't administered by the SNP, the other three parties (excluding the Greens) should get together to form a completely new party so at the next election there was a choice between the SNP and new Party X, that would be the end of the SNP and the Neverendum. Just my opinion, as a hard working long suffering tax payer!

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## Alrock

> If the SNP want us all to be 'equal', how about making the unemployed get up at 5am (like a lot of us) and forcing them to carry out community work projects for a minimum of 8 solid hours a day?


That's called a job, which is what most unemployed people want, as long as it pays a realistic wage for the job done. Would you be happy working for 40 hours per week for £57.90?

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## Goodfellers

> That's called a job, which is what most unemployed people want, as long as it pays a realistic wage for the job done. Would you be happy working for 40 hours per week for £57.90?



How about being made to up-skill then to increase chance of finding work. we all know people who are quite ok with living on benefits (my brother included). I don't believe anyone should get cash for doing nothing.  Self worth alone should make you want to improve your life so you should have the choice of community 'work' or return to education/training. Within a few years you could be a trained plumber/electrician/brickie. This would be a great asset to the area and help to reduce prices of these trades, maybe then encouraging more people to move to the area. I know someone from 'down south' who bought a piece of land up here with outline pp only to find it was too expensive to get a home built, far cheaper to by a house already built.

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## Alrock

> ....we all know people who are quite ok with living on benefits (my brother included).


Go back a few hundred years or so and do a survey of black slaves picking cotton & I'm sure quite a few would say that they are happy (they become "institutionalised" to their position). Didn't make it right though.

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## Fulmar

I doubt any slaves said that they were 'happy'. Why would they given the terrible situation that they were in, the aftermath of which continues to this day in the form of racism.
The whole business of benefits and who gets what and what constitutes work is a pretty complex one and I think needs to be tackled on a lot of different fronts. It would be great if instead of it always being an exercise of forcing people into categories in order to tick boxes, each could be looked at on an individual basis and something (voluntary/community, if needs be) found to suit that person, within reason at least. 
Back on topic, I don't know of anyone clamouring for a second referendum either.

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## orkneycadian

> _Just over 1% less than the 10.6% lead that No had in the last official Referendum. As I think they use a 3% margin of error in those polls, then as far as I can see, things have not changed since the 2014 Referendum._


Something seems to have gone wrong with your computer or "Reply with Quote" link.  It seems to have magically turned "Neverendum" into "Referendum" - Twice.

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## orkneycadian

> If the SNP want us all to be 'equal', how about making the unemployed get up at 5am (like a lot of us) and forcing them to carry out community work projects for a minimum of 8 solid hours a day? in exchange for any of my hard earned tax money.


Good grief, the snowflakes could never cope with that.  Why on earth would they want to get up before midday, and have their afternoon on the couch watching the recording of that morning's Jeremy Kyle Show interrupted by having to go out and do something useful, when they can just sit back and wait for the benefit money to come in.

Social engineering has created the welfare monster that exists today.  National Minimum Wage, or that other farce, National Living Wage, has created an environment where there is no desire to carry out what some folk would term "menial" work.  National Living Wage now means that the lowest paid of jobs has to be a good job.  Where prior to having wages hoiked up, employers may have had in the past, some lower paid jobs.  Now those jobs don't exist.

In years gone by, folk had to take up whatever job they could get to keep a roof over their head.  Now they don't need to bother.  Just report to your local council and a roof will be provided for you.

Over this side o e watter, the place is starting to look abandoned.  The council say they cannot afford to cut the grass in public spaces more than once this year.  Dochans are already between knee and waist high all around Kirkwall.  Meanwhile, we can afford to keep loads of folk in leisure.  The latter could be dealing with the former, but why would they want to when they don't have to?

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## Goodfellers

> That's called a job, which is what most unemployed people want, as long as it pays a realistic wage for the job done. Would you be happy working for 40 hours per week for £57.90?


I am happy to work for nothing. I have done a fair bit of voluntary work. 

The mistake is looking at it as 'work'. Consider it putting something back into the community. The less someone does, the less they want to do. I would not expect any paying jobs to be lost. There are plenty of charities that could do with the pool of labour that would be created. Even getting the claimants to litter pick beaches would make a massive difference to the area and that has to be better than sitting in watching soul destroying daytime tv. 

I can't believe there are any 'true' unemployed in Caithness. The amount of care work that I see posted on this site should take care of all the unemployment, along with the 100+ home working jobs being advertised.

But, alas, there are a few dishonest 'jobseekers' who have no intention of ever getting a job, these people are the ones we remember and then all jobseekers get tarred with that same brush. 

Wick job centre contacted me a few years ago about giving some long term unemployed four weeks work experience. Over the course of six weeks eight young men turned up. On average, they lasted a day. They had never done manual work since leaving school. 'I've got blisters' 'I've got a headache' 'My kids are sick' 'My grans had a fall' 'I've got a bad back'. The list of excuses was endless. Speaking to the contact at the job centre was enlightening. He/she felt if it wasn't for welfare Wick's economy would collapse. Most claimants 'aspire' to getting DLA (now PIP) they 'develop' problems, usually unable to cope with stress which makes it hard for them to leave the house.....lo and behold, another £145 per WEEK on top of the £58 Alrock states, and don't forget all the help with council tax and rent.

So I stick by my claim that there is a hard core of 'unemployed' who have no intention of ever getting a job all the time the govt make it too easy to have a comfortable life on benefits. As for the SNP claiming when the get control of PIP they will make it even easier to claim (no visit from an assessor, just fill in a form). I will be expecting the economy of Wick to boom.

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## dozy

It's great that after 3 hundred years Scotland is still a country of occupation ,gets more like that old picture " None shall escape".  Time has come for a change and for those who want no choice there's other countries more suited to their way of thinking and let those  who want freedom to choose do so Unhindered .

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## mi16

I believe that we did choose in 2014 dozy?
Thats only 4 years ago that we had the choice and made our decision.

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## dozy

Your Wrong  Westminster did the choosing, then told you the result just like Brexit . Only a fool would beleive that the whole thing was not done by the rich for the rich.

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## Goodfellers

Dozy. You have already admitted your family were incomers once upon a time. If you don't like Scotland as she is now, why don't you up sticks and return to your 'homeland'. Scotland voted and the answer was 'no'. England had no part to play in the vote. You see conspiracy everywhere. 

Do you still believe that only pure bred Scots should vote in any future referendums (you failed to answer that question last time I asked, just trying to find out how racist you really are).

 If the Brexit vote had used your 'born & bred' principle then the result to leave the EU would have been even higher as I doubt many of the foreign nationals living in the UK voted to leave.

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## Goodfellers

> It's great that after 3 hundred years Scotland is still a country of occupation ,gets more like that old picture " None shall escape".  Time has come for a change and for those who want no choice there's other countries more suited to their way of thinking and let those  who want freedom to choose do so Unhindered .


That sounds remarkably like you are advocating ethnic cleansing

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## sids

> That sounds remarkably like you are advocating ethnic cleansing


Throw out everybody who voted the wrong way.

It’s democracy in action.

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## dozy

If it works for the Tories .

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## mi16

> Your Wrong  Westminster did the choosing, then told you the result just like Brexit . Only a fool would beleive that the whole thing was not done by the rich for the rich.


Im not so sure you are correct on these points of view fella, but each to their own.

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## orkneycadian

> Your Wrong  Westminster did the choosing, then told you the result just like Brexit .


If I recall rightly, in the run up to the EU referendum, the Westminster government spent millions sending out a booklet entitled 

"Why the Government believes that voting to remain in the European Union is the best decision for the UK."

https://assets.publishing.service.go...for-the-uk.pdf

So not only did we have official Remain campaign telling us to vote to stay, we had the government doing the same.  But just 1 leave campaign.  So aside from having plenty of information from very authoritive sources, Westminster didn't "do the choosing, and then just tell us".  I think they were quite shocked that despite 2 Remain campaigns, we still voted to leave.

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## orkneycadian

> So I stick by my claim that there is a hard core of 'unemployed' who have no intention of ever getting a job all the time the govt make it too easy to have a comfortable life on benefits. As for the SNP claiming when the get control of PIP they will make it even easier to claim (no visit from an assessor, just fill in a form). I will be expecting the economy of Wick to boom.


Yup, your post nails it in one.  Exactly the same over here.

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## orkneycadian

Another cringeworthy week in Scottish politics comes to an end.  Again, our SNP minority government is an embarrassment to us, as they again try to stamp their feet, throw a tantrum and get their (blinkered) way.

Its little wonder that there is increasing sentiments here in Orkney to investigate splitting from Scotland.  There was a public meeting to that effect here the other week - Didn't get to it, but heard about it in the grapevine.  Not sure if the vision is to split from Scotland AND the UK and go back to Denmark, or simply split from Scotland and rejoin the rest of the UK.  But the way these muppets are trying to drag us all down, I can see the benefits of getting out of it.

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## mi16

Shetland fancy a breakaway also, more so under an independent Scotland scenario

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## mi16

Wonder if Caithness could also make the break under an independent Scotland?
After all, we are the Saudi Arabia of renewables, we could then commission a new nuclear power station and become an energy powerhouse with plentiful work for all.
MI16 for president, whos with me?

If they asked nicely and I mean very nicely we could maybe take Sutherland along with us, for the Northern section of NC500 revenue.
#makecaithnessandsutherlandgreatagain

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## Fulmar

I daresay it could as doubt any would notice or care that it was gone, given that it is pretty much ignored just now!

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## Goodfellers

> Wonder if Caithness could also make the break under an independent Scotland?
> After all, we are the Saudi Arabia of renewables, we could then commission a new nuclear power station and become an energy powerhouse with plentiful work for all.
> MI16 for president, who’s with me?
> 
> If they asked nicely and I mean very nicely we could maybe take Sutherland along with us, for the Northern section of NC500 revenue.
> #makecaithnessandsutherlandgreatagain


If you become president, could I ask that you make me Minister for Social Security and Minister for Agriculture too. I think my views on both subjects are well documented on here!

My first job would be to ask (nicely) all the unemployed to report to a field nearby and start pulling rashes, then we could start getting quality grass growing to feed all the cattle we are going to rear (Texas of the North), thus reducing the price of meat so we can all eat a healthy wholesome diet!

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## orkneycadian

I think your first job would need to be something other than asking them nicely to report to a field.  Methinks you will find an empty field.

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## mi16

I think we have the beginnings of a parliament.
Who fancies the minister for education and minister of defence roles?
We will need to build a robust defence in order to keep out the sticky fingered invernesians who will be jealous of our riches

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## mi16

If they want their brew money they will be at that blasted field at 07:30 sharp

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## B0wer

> I think we have the beginnings of a parliament.
> Who fancies the minister for education and minister of defence roles?
> We will need to build a robust defence in order to keep out the sticky fingered invernesians who will be jealous of our riches


Ooo Ooo Bagsy Minister of Defence

I have a few ideas for slurry firing guns at key road crossings.
 Arm all those ex-fishermen to protect our harbours. (Wouldn't want any dastardly pirates nicking our cruise ships now.) 
The way planes low fly over our farms someone could easily hit "foreign aircraft" with a well aimed hunting rifle. Isn't there a gunsmith outside Mey? Plenty of hunters these parts too, we could offer free citizenship (and therefore hunting rights in season) to any visitor willing to do a tour of anti-aircraft duty.

If worst comes to worst and we could always use the quarry trucks to block the mountain pass, hijack and set fire to all those landfill trucks on route to Seater.

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## B0wer

> If they want their brew money they will be at that blasted field at 07:30 sharp


Too right. Why not pay them like for like? You want food coupons work in a field, you want clothes coupons go pick litter, petrol/bus money fill in potholes ....

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