# General > Politics >  Where have all the loud mouthed Tories gone

## dozy

Boris has been the gag that loud mouthed Tories didn't want in Scotland . Boris even put the Ruth Davidsons genie back in the bottle along with all the lies she spouted to fishermen and those who were blinded by false promises of a country paved with gold . "Strong and Secure " was the rally ,but that was a con and never meant to be for the masses . It was just a carpet baggers rant to get votes to keep the rich Tories in power at  others expense and YES the one that couldn't swallow the Tories rant , they ran to the Tories second party and partners in crime the Lib Dems. Will we never learn. 
What an adsolute mess they're making of the whole thing and the blame is all Westminsters . How can anyone who voted Tory, Labour or Lib Dem support any of them ever again . Its with a heavy heart but the time has come to look forward and shape the future that makes a diffidence to the many and not the few. 
Time for Change .

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## Goodfellers

Just need the opposition to 'allow' an election. What are they scared of, if they win they can do what they like re Brexit. If they lose then they know Boris will change any law made regarding Brexit and he will take us out without a deal. There are a huge number of disgruntled 'leave' voters who back Boris...me included.

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## dozy

Good on you ,freedom comes to those who will stand up and speak up . Funny thing is that there seems to be a hell of a lot of folk that voted remain ,that now back leave . It's like telling those England supporters ( oh whatever sport) to put on a Germany jersey or France top. I don't see many happy to change just because the others won , do you ? . 
Strange thing is that the back room secret  deals done between the Tories and the Lib Dems to capture votes from both sides of the split Labour Party . Tories in the Blue (Brexit ) corner, Labour in the Red ( don't know) corner and the Lib Dems playing referee ( taken a bung from the Tories) with the bell , just to be safe.  Now that's dirty tactics .

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## Atherston

> Just need the opposition to 'allow' an election. What are they scared of, if they win they can do what they like re Brexit. If they lose then they know Boris will change any law made regarding Brexit and he will take us out without a deal. There are a huge number of disgruntled 'leave' voters who back Boris...me included.


I think Boris  should ask the eu for a 1 day extension he will be abiding with the law then  ::

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## Goodfellers

I think, like Baldrick , Boris has a cunning plan!  Interesting to see what it might be......maybe go off sick just before flight to Brussels, note from Dr excusing him for two weeks.... :Smile:

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## Gronnuck

Five years ago I was an ardent unionist; since then I've seen the light.  It's time to dissolve this toxic union and become a normal country, an independent country.  Once we've accomplished that we can elect a government of whatever shade we want.

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## Goodfellers

I've said it before, I still am a unionist, if the SNP dropped the idea of rejoining the EU and wanted Scotland to be TRULY independant, then I may change my view. Luckily I do still have access to an address in England for all my savings and bank accounts should the worst happen. No way do I want anything to do with the Euro.

My brother lives in Portugal working for a large US company and is paid in Euros, he opened an account in Germany so only gets paid in German Euros, apparently each member country has its own euro and if Europe collapsed your Euros would be converted into currency dictated by the serial number (cash). He doesn't want Portugesse currency he wants the Mark. That tells me a lot about Europe. BTW he's an accountant

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## Gronnuck

If Scotland were to stay in the EU there is no compulsion to take up the use of the Euro.  Scotland can use whatever currency it chooses to trade with.  Many countries trade using dollars.  Scotland could continue to use the pound; when the Republic of Ireland was created its currency was tied closely to the pound for over fifty years before it chose to adopt the Euro.  Currently 9 member states do not use the Euro.

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## Goodfellers

Looking into this a bit more, only the UK and Denmark do not have to adopt the Euro every other country is supposed to be working towards joining as it is a requirement of EU membership (although Sweden has been 'working' towards it since 1995)

Extract from Factcheck _https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-independent-scotland-would-have-to-adopt-euro-after-joining-eu_

_the Commission reiterated Mr Juncker’s earlier comment that “All but two of our Member States are required and entitled to join the euro once they fulfil all conditions.”


I am making the assumption that the UK is leaving the EU and an independant Scotland applies for membership as a new member.
_

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## Headwark

On several occasions Spain has said it will Veto  Scotland,s application to join the EU.

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## dozy

> On several occasions Spain has said it will Veto  Scotland,s application to join the EU.


The man who said that is no longer in the Spanish government . Spain would not veto Scotland's membership if England is out ,the statement was a way to keep the Gibraltar question alive. More going on than most people think or see when it comes to Spain.

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## Gronnuck

Given the state of the current tory grubbiement I cannot believe anyone thinks it’s a good idea to support Boris Johnston, he’s a narcissist and has been shown to be liar and a racist.  His supporters in Westminster are complicit in the ongoing chaos.  The conservative and unionist party is surely finished.

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## theone

> The man who said that is no longer in the Spanish government . Spain would not veto Scotland's membership if England is out ,the statement was a way to keep the Gibraltar question alive. More going on than most people think or see when it comes to Spain.


The statement was nothing to do with Gibralter, and everything to do with Catalonia. Spain do not want 'breakaway regions' to become popular.

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## Goodfellers

I will admit I am a lifetime Conservative and unionist party supporter. I can't say I'm a fan of Boris but, as things stand, his party will be the only option (in the upcoming GE) to vote 'out'.  He will do a deal with NF so no competing for the 'out' vote. Nigel will stand in a safe seat and get a place around the table at number 10 (assuming they win). The Remain vote will be split between Labour and Lib Dem (south of the border). 

12.9 million registered voters did not bother voting in the EU referendum
14.6 million registered voters did not bother voting in the 2017 GE

Dominic Cummings knows who these people are, and will target them mercilessly. Same tactics he used to enable the Leave campagin to win. There are a lot of angry people out there who feel politicians are walking all over the public because they know better than you. These angry disenfranchised 'nobody's' will be the ones politicians will be after. Boris is the only politician who has stood up and said he will respect the vote to leave no matter what.

If you havn't seen it, watch Brexit, The Uncivil War, you will then understand why 'the little people' feel ignored and don't care about the economic argument, the just want out. Westminster has shown nothing but contempt to the 17+ million voters. They are soon going to pay the price for that.

Jeremy Corbyn know all of this. This is the real reason he doesn't want an election yet, nothing to do with 'getting no deal off the table'. He knows if BJ and NF win the election with a majority, they will overturn any legislation stopping a no deal exit.

If Labour were confident of winning, they would have agreed to an early election, won, and cancelled Article 50 and held another referendum. 

I also predict a big gain for the SNP, sadly.

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## dozy

> I will admit I am a lifetime Conservative and unionist party supporter. I can't say I'm a fan of Boris but, as things stand, his party will be the only option (in the upcoming GE) to vote 'out'.  He will do a deal with NF so no competing for the 'out' vote. Nigel will stand in a safe seat and get a place around the table at number 10 (assuming they win). The Remain vote will be split between Labour and Lib Dem (south of the border). 
> 
> 12.9 million registered voters did not bother voting in the EU referendum
> 14.6 million registered voters did not bother voting in the 2017 GE
> 
> Dominic Cummings knows who these people are, and will target them mercilessly. Same tactics he used to enable the Leave campagin to win. There are a lot of angry people out there who feel politicians are walking all over the public because they know better than you. These angry disenfranchised 'nobody's' will be the ones politicians will be after. Boris is the only politician who has stood up and said he will respect the vote to leave no matter what.
> 
> If you havn't seen it, watch Brexit, The Uncivil War, you will then understand why 'the little people' feel ignored and don't care about the economic argument, the just want out. Westminster has shown nothing but contempt to the 17+ million voters. They are soon going to pay the price for that.
> 
> ...


I find the reference to the " big gain for the SNP"  sad . It's about time that we put this Three hundred year plus English / Scots ( so called) agreement to bed . It's far better to have a good neighbour than an angry one ,we are well past Scotland making its own decisions . Scotland will never become the enemy of England ( or anyone else) . Let's just do what's right and give Scotland and Scots it's right to choose ( win or lose) .  If your living in Scotland and meet the criteria to vote and it's all done fairly , NO lies ,No threats ,No bulling and No abuse . Let the Scots choose ,No more cheating or Fear . Let's have some truth . 

I think Scotland going independent will only help , and the U.K. can still be the UK just under a different agreement. 
Brexit comes over as a angry unionist and Tory party sycophant rant ,in a " do as I tell you and not as I do " . If it's time for change by the unionist / Tory supporters  that choice must also be available to others. 

I said at the time " Scotland should have been given a honest choice between the leave or stay campaign ,through the Scottish party system " that would mean NO interference from Westminster . With a set campaign budget for all the parties . It should have been Scotlands choice , funny how we have the complete opposite in the Brexit / leave side . YES we know the leave vote won but they should have had the same rules used in the Scottish referendum . 

Brexit is like a cancer , some get it ,some don't .

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## Goodfellers

The entire voting system needs reform, something more akin to proportional representation. For example, UKIP get nearly 600,000 votes but no seat, SNP get 977,000 votes and get 35 seats.

 Doesn't make sense, you get say, 35,000 votes and your opponent gets 35,001 votes multiplied by 650 seats and you could control the destiny of the UK based on getting *650* more votes than someone else.

As for referendums, there should be a set margin to 'win' It needs to be something like 60% of the vote. We can all see the problems caused by a 52% to 48% win

Had a bit of time on my hands so I've worked out what would have happened in the 2017 GE using PR (Scotland only) 

Scotland has 59 seats

SNP   36.9%   35 seats    (PR 21.70 seats)
CON  28.6%   13 seats    (PR 16.87 seats)
LAB   27.1%   7  seats     (PR 15.99 seats)
LD      6.8%    4 seats     (PR 4        seats)
others 0.3       0              (PR 0       seats)  

So, it appears the current system the SNP did well and Labour lost out.

When you start to look at it, the current system really doesn't represent the votes fairly, just looked at Wales, 
The Conservatives took 33.6 % of votes cast but only got 8 seats out of 40  (only 20% of seats on offer)
Plaid Cymru          took 10.4%  of votes cast and got 4 seats                      ( 10% of votes and 10% of seats)
Labour took 48.9%                                                28 seats                     ( 50% of vote should equal 50% of seats ie 20)


It now seems to me, this first past the post system is flawed.

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## dozy

What now for the Tories loudest mouthed conman and what now for all those how follow the pied piper of lies. Not a word from the unionist drum beaters, god they must feel stupid after being scammed. Maybe scammed is the wrong word likeminded may be better .  It's a bit like that Jimmy Saville moment , when you realise that what you've been told was all smoke and mirrors and the reality is you were conned . Just how many are happy to stick with the unionist flag wavers will only signal to the rest of us their real colours. Fly with the crows .

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## dozy

> The entire voting system needs reform, something more akin to proportional representation. For example, UKIP get nearly 600,000 votes but no seat, SNP get 977,000 votes and get 35 seats.
> 
>  Doesn't make sense, you get say, 35,000 votes and your opponent gets 35,001 votes multiplied by 650 seats and you could control the destiny of the UK based on getting *650* more votes than someone else.
> 
> As for referendums, there should be a set margin to 'win' It needs to be something like 60% of the vote. We can all see the problems caused by a 52% to 48% win
> 
> Had a bit of time on my hands so I've worked out what would have happened in the 2017 GE using PR (Scotland only) 
> 
> Scotland has 59 seats
> ...



The scottish system was set up by Westminster ,the blame is theirs .  Don't blame the SNP for wanting freedom over servitude . If Scotland was a country who's people were of colour, independance would have long been given .

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## orkneycadian

Why, after shouting so much about needing to be in parliament, "scrutinising the government", are MPs either,

*Still on their seaside jollies
*Posturing on national radio (Jeremy Vine) and not in the chamber
*Bawling at each other like bairns.

Wheres the so called scrutiny?

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## Alrock

> Wheres the so called scrutiny?


Watching it right now on BBC Parliament.

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## orkneycadian

And they rapidly disappeared like snow off a dyke as the evening progressed. Shameful. They shout that they want to be in Parliament to scrutinise the government, then they clear off home (or to the pub) early in case someone asks them to support an early election. Bunch of big Jessies.

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## dozy

The Tories are a lot of angry misogynist men backed up by subservient women that feel they need to be just as rotten to get noticed. For those unionist that don't see that as dangerous ,it says more about their morels . 

The sooner we get the hell out of the broken U.K. the better and safer we'll all be .

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## orkneycadian

Misogynist.  Hmmm, what does that mean again?  Wheres that thesaurus.....

Ah yes, is that what Alex Salmond is alleged to have "committed" or was that just alleged sexual offences?

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## dozy

Yet again the Tory flag wavers cover the selves with THAT label without even knowing how other will see or make of it . 

Alex Salmond ain't the Prime Minister or the loud mouthed Westminster Jester.  Rotten Boris is covering himself with the badges of stupidly ,with his foulmouth rantations and statement are signs of a tinpot dictator and the sociopath he really is . Salmond ain't been found guilty "YET " and for that we'll have to wait and see.  How needs a North Korean dictator when we have ( Boris) one for our own , Trumps new " mini me " more clowns than clones.  These type of people put us all in danger for years to come . 
The Tories may be neck deep in Russian money and more than willing to do their bidding to breakup the EU ,just look at how things are turning out . Who in their right mind would do what they are doing. Strange thing is that their doing it in your name .    They point the finger and say " they voted for IT so it's not my fault" . Crazy or what . So don't blame folk when they point at you if it goes wrong .  No one voted for this.

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## orkneycadian

> Alex Salmond ain't been found guilty "YET " and for that we'll have to wait and see.


Oh, for a decent Scottish justice system. We used to have one till the seperatists got their hands on it.  When one of their own wants to make use of it, the Court of Session seems to be ready and available at short notice. Meanwhile, an alleged multiple rapist remains on the loose.

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## orkneycadian

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...iness-49842583

No wonder we live in the highest taxed part of the UK. £140 million wasted on failed central belt investments.

The sooner we get out of broken Scotland the better.

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## Gronnuck

Let's use the SNP to get Independence and then we'll have  general election and we can have any shade of government we want, free of the mess that is Westminster.

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## orkneycadian

Hmmm, why would Scotland want independance? Aside from actually voting against it, the seperatists keep telling us that remaining with your union parters is by far and away the best option.  They keep telling us that attempts to leave a union are a "fiasco".

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## B0wer

Sturgon recons SNP are ready for an election and would welcome one but Westminster SNP voted against an early election? Ditto labour. Now they want to have a coup and install a caretaker labour goverment. 

Smells to me like they don't believe they could win an election to scared that lib dems will waltz in. At least the lib dems are honest about their motives.

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## orkneycadian

SNP are completely baffling about their motives.

One the one hand "We want to be in a union with our biggest trading partner.  We want to be goverened from afar and told how its going to be.  We want to have laws synchronised across the union"

then, in the same breath, on the other hand. "We don't want to be in a union with our biggest trading parnter.  We want to govern ourselves and make our own decisions.  We want our own laws"

Baffled?

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## dozy

It's not rocket science , Scotland can choose to trade with England or the EU  on a level footing as an Independent country and not as a subservient partner over the CONTROL of the large member of that dated Union . If you where under the total control  of your partner , they controlled everything except what went on at home .  All the money and decisions were theirs and theirs alone ,who you could speak to and visit ,the when and where . Would you stay , I don't think so and you shouldn't . Choice and freedom are a right ,not an option given to you by others . Let Scotland choose on an equal footing and not from her knees with cap in hand .

the Lib Dems have always been the Tories rent boys ,history teaches us that lesson .

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## Goodfellers

A few weeks ago we had Ian Blackford and Nicola Sturgeon  bleating on about an 'unelected' PM running the UK. We now have the same two trying to install Jeremy Corbyn as an unelected PM.....You couldn't make it up. The SNP will say/do anything to try and win the central belt voters over. Pathetic.

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## dozy

Unionist want the world never to change from their false eutopia of the Plantation Owner .  Believing that if we the rich are happy , everyone must also be rich and happy or if not its their own fault . God forbid if you don't follow the mantra of the supreme ( Westminster ) masters .  All hail the master ,we must all follow blindly ,never question or we'll be cast out of the gates and left for the hounds to eat . If our side is wrong, we must point the finger and blame others if they can see through our cloak of lies and hate .  Rant ,rant , rant . What you miss is that the ones you hate are not the enemy ,just they see things differently . They ain't in power and if they were they couldn't do worse than the Tories and what the Tories are up to now is like 1936-45 history repeating itself . Same words different mouth . Is there any truth in the rumour that England is to become the Unionist little Britain homeland. Removal trucks heading south daily at a discount.

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## orkneycadian

> A few weeks ago we had Ian Blackford and Nicola Sturgeon  bleating on about an 'unelected' PM running the UK. We now have the same two trying to install Jeremy Corbyn as an unelected PM.....You couldn't make it up. The SNP will say/do anything to try and win the central belt voters over. Pathetic.


What has the current general election campaign got to do with the first minister of Scotland?

https://www.ft.com/content/3f7d72dc-...c-f3fa4e77dd47

Yet again, the Scottish Parliament is shown to be a waste of time, as its illustrious leader seems to think she can take time off from a parliament that isn't having an election, to campaign in one that is.  Its no wonder that the streets of Govan are in the state they are, when she doesn't dedicate her time as their MSP to them, and now she is abandoning her duties as the Scottish first minister, to go campaigning in an election she isn't even standing in. 

Nicola, your only responsibility in this election is to turn up and vote on the 12th, just like everyone else.  If you want to go and play down in London, then you would need to stand down as an MSP in Scotland first.

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## Bystander1

Be careful now OrkneymacAdian. You are not permitted to question the Dear Leader. Gulag for you if there is any more of this, I see a Nasty Party hitman person thing on another thread. 
Strange as it may seem the last time we had a General Erection some Nasty Party mouthpiece popped up, spread lots o dung about and then disappeared like snow off a dyke along with the sitting MP. Bet a pound to a pinch of thingy another of these is lurking about.

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## orkneycadian

Yes, I do miss Piratelassie's misplaced words of wisdom.

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