# General > General >  no thank you

## ruth

Hallo everybody. I'd appreciate it very much if you would share my campaign as widely as possible, thanks. Here's the link.......https://www.youcaring.com/meltemsrights-842295.

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## sids

Money?

For an "apology?"

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## ruth

It costs money for a vulnerable, disabled child to have representation in court. The council are appealing against the courts decision rather than writing an apology. The written apology is part of the judgement handed down by the additional support needs tribunal. The council uses public funds to finance their appeal. Please let me know if you would like further information, thanks.

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## theone

You want £25,000 to get an apology? Or are you fighting for something else?

Genuinely confused.

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## sids

> You want £25,000 to get an apology? Or are you fighting for something else?
> 
> Genuinely confused.


It reads as though someone is fighting to get some money.

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## ruth

hallo, I'm sorry you are confused, I will try to explain. My daughter is disabled. As a result of her disability she has received almost no education since December 2013, I have been fighting for her right to receive an education since then. The case has been to the Additional Support Needs Tribunal twice, and each time, it was judged in her favour. That is, that Edinburgh Council were at fault for failing her. The most recent judgement was passed on 7/4/17. Edinburgh Council have not fulfilled their obligations by adhering to the judgement and are appealing against the decision. This means that the case will now be heard at the Court of Session. In order for my daughter's voice to be heard at the Court of Session she needs a barrister, a lay person may not do it. It will cost at least £25 000 for my daughter to be represented in court by a barrister. 

It was judged that Edinburgh Council broke the law, by discriminating against my daughter because of her disability. The council are using public funds to bring an appeal. This is fundamentally unfair.

Disabled children have the same right to an education as anyone else. Please feel free to ask me any other questions.

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## ruth

I am happy to give you more information, please just ask. It is not £25 000 for an apology. Had the council issued an apology, as they were directed to (amongst other things) by the additional needs tribunal, then there would be no argument. However, the council have decided that they would rather waste thousands of pounds of public funds pursuing an appeal. My daughter has received almost no education from age 10 to age 14, as a result of her disability. This is discrimination. A court of law (the additional support needs tribunal) judged that the council broke the law. Rather than admit that they have indeed broken the law, the council are appealing. The case will now be heard at the Court of Session. You need to be represented by a barrister at the Court of Session. Barristers are expensive. My daughter's solicitor is hopeful that the European Commission on Human Rights will provide funding, but that is not yet certain. Meanwhile, a vulnerable child is suffering, through no fault of their own.

Please feel free to ask me anymore questions.

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## sids

Is she being educated now?

Can she only be educated in Edinburgh?

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## ruth

We moved to Gills Bay on 24th February. Until that date she was on school roll in Edinburgh, but not receiving any education (oh, she did get 3 maths lessons - not a lot but better than nowt). She is currently being home-educated whilst I find out if she would get the support she needs to attend school up here. I have managed to find her a maths and physics tutor but am still looking for tutors for English, biology, chemistry and art. Let me know if you know any tutors!

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## Goodfellers

If you were unable to raise funds, would the Govt win by default? I understand this is the case in English County Courts if the defendant fails to show up.

We now have a new MP, maybe try and contact him.

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## ruth

I don't think the council would win by default, but I will check that. I have contacted the MSP, Gail Ross, as education is devolved in Scotland. Not had any response yet. I also contacted John Swinney as he is on the education and skills committee and got acknowledgement but no response yet. And thank you for your interest.

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## Scunner

Much as I sympathise with your plight, I am confused as to why you left Edinburgh, where your daughter was receiving an education, to a remote location like Gills.

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## ruth

My daughter was not receiving an education in Edinburgh. That is the whole point! I've ben fighting since December 2013 for her to receive an education. That is more than 3 years that I've been battling with Edinburgh Council. I think that's long enough! They have done everything on their power NOT to provide her with the help she needs. This has had long lasting detrimental effects on her health. And we came to Gills because it is remote and beautiful. I haven't heard a single siren since I've been here. There are no drunk students walking past your house every night. You don't open your door in the morning to 1500 children walking to school in 1 direction and 1000 students walking to university in the other. It is beautiful, peaceful with glorious weather and it's food for the soul.

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## rogermellie

why didn't you just pay for a home tutor in Edinburgh ?

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## ruth

I'm not rich. The going rate in Edinburgh for 1 hour of tutoring is £50-£70. So, to cover the core subjects would have cost  £250-£350 per week. Over a school year that's £9500-£13300. I don't even earn that much a year. The council saved a lot of money by not educating my girl.

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## laguna2

Sorry, I am still confused.  If you receive this written apology will your daughter then get an education in Edinburgh?

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## janeyj

Hi Ruth and welcome to you and Meltem to Caithness.  Yes Gills Bay is a lovely spot.  After 3 years you will have an intimate knowledge of your case and it's implications for Meltem and other students with learning difficulties, specifically in your former council area, but also potentially nationwide.  Understandably, it takes time for the rest of us to get 'up to speed'.  In my experience any manager, company, organisation, council etc will do all they can to avoid giving an apology, when they 'mess up', for one of 2 reasons........either they think an apology will be taken as an admission of guilt which would then open themselves up to further litigation or they are running a vexatious defence of your claims.  By vexatious defence I mean one that is put together to put you to the greatest expense possible in terms of your time, your money and stress for daring to take them to court in the first place and in their eyes potentially encouraging others to do so also.  Either way the council officers involved should be ashamed of themselves.  We live in a strange world now Ruth where nobody apologises anymore and yet to move forward, and have respect, surely we need to acknowledge the past?  I sincerely wish you all the very best in your endeavours for Meltem and other children suffering the same discrimination.  I hope you can find help from the local paper and our new MP.

Bless you and good luck. 

Janey

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## ruth

no, it isn't just about an apology. It is the principle. And no, she won't get an education in Edinburgh, ever. But it may help her to get an education here.

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## ruth

janeyj, thanks for your message. The last few years have been a very steep learning curve! I didn't know a thing about autism prior to 2014, now I know quite a lot!

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## The Horseman

Janey....
What a sad sad way of looking at life, and our support systems.
Vexatious and of course the 'buzzzz word' Discrimination. Wow...!
The Council Officers are members of the Public, like ourselves...perhaps not you, who make decisions with the monies they are allotted, or are simply following instructions as per the Government Policy.

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## cptdodger

I am not sure what you what you are trying to achieve here. If, and it is a big (mainly because of the cost of representation) if the ruling goes your way, what can Edinburgh Council do for you now you live in Gills Bay ? If you are not spending £25,000 on an apology, then why are you pursuing this? Because you have moved completely out the area, I don't know what else can the Council can do for you. You have not said why they refused to educate your daughter. Personally speaking, I would have checked there were schools that were abe to educate your child before moving here, because you seem to have found yourself in the same boat, having to employ tutors.

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## Scunner

Forgive me for being thick between the ears, but I fail to understand why your daughter has not received any education in Caithness, as there are many handicapped children in the county and I have never heard of any of them not being educated, some even in mainstreams schools.   Just as a matter of interest, have you got a barrister willing to represent you?

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## ruth

cptdodger - what am I trying to achieve? A court has already ruled that Edinburgh Council discriminated against my daughter because of her disability. I want to achieve that ruling being upheld. Why? To give my girl validation. So she no longer thinks that it is all her fault that she couldn't just jog along to school with her peers. She feels she doesn't deserve to live. She feels she has no worth. She hates her brain. She hates her disability. She thinks she doesn't deserve to live. After all, she isn't even worth an apology, is she? That is the way she feels.
What can the council do for me? They can admit that they failed my daughter, instead of appealing. They can put in place all the other things ordered by the court on 7/4/17 so that maybe this doesn't happen to another family.
As for schools, I am only aware of 1 school in Scotland that might be suitable. It is in Perthshire and I investigated moving there but I couldn't afford it. Perthshire is pretty pricey. There is another highly recommended school in Rotherham, but I just don't want to move down there.
Pathological Demand Avoidance Syndrome is a very complex form of autism. If you want to know more about it, here is a good website www.pdasociety.org.uk

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## ruth

Scunner - I have not yet approached the education authority in Caithness. I am not aware of any special school in Caithness that has knowledge and experience with children with PDA. Meltem has a very complex disability and needs a great deal of support. So, whilst I am finding out what support is available locally I am happy to home educate. 

And thanks to everyone that's commented. It is very helpful to me reading all your thoughts. Cheers!

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## Kodiak

Personally I think that £25,000 to hire a Barrister, for perhaps 4 or 5 Hours at at hearing, is rather on the High side.

City barristers rates, (This is for London Rates and Edinburgh is less), run as high as £1,000 per hour. Rates for barristers who operate from regional chambers will  normally cost a lot less. Additionally, most good barristers offer  fixed fees for every specific task or will discuss with you the issues  if this is not possible.

I have just checked up on the "Court of Sessions" web page :-

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/the-co...urt-of-session

There it advises who can present a case.

Cases can be presented by

An advocate - a member of the Faculty of Advocates whose status and function correspond to that of a barrister in EnglandA  solicitor-advocate - a. member of the Law Society of Scotland.  Experienced solicitors who obtain an extension of their rights of  audience by undergoing additional training in evidence and in the  procedure of the Court of Session.A practitioner from another  member state of the European Union where the circumstances are  prescribed by the European Communities (Services of Lawyers) Order 1978.*An  individual who is a party to a case* , but a firm or a company must  always be represented by counsel or by a solicitor-advocate.

So it seems that a Barrister or Advocate is not required as an Individual who is party to the case can present it.  This means you will not require to hire an Advocate for £25,000.

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## Fulmar

Hi,
So there was not a suitable school in Edinburgh but only in Perthshire?
Could some other kind of professional help (such as counselling) help your daughter to come to terms with things? It is sad that she feels so badly about it all.

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## cptdodger

How old is your daughter ?

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## The Horseman

On the money request she is described at 14 year.
What I am confused with, if this Appeal is against Edinburgh Council, will it hold up with Caithness Council?
Or is that another Jurisdiction?

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## dc1

ruth I hope everything goes well for you and your daughter

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## The Horseman

> ruth I hope everything goes well for you and your daughter


I think that anyone who has children feel they need to do their best for their child........I am unable to find this case in Edinburgh Court, but looking at the decisions made in that area, it would only apply to that child in that specific venue, so it would be of no benefit to the girl in question to win the Appeal because she is in Caithness.
And to spend that type of Money on an Appeal with no benefits is money wasted......my opinion!

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## ruth

Kodiak - thank you for looking up that information for me. It is Meltem's solicitor at Govan Law (http://www.edlaw.org.uk/) that told me the cost of the case would be around £25 000 because a barrister is required. She also told me that she has contacted the ECHR (European commission on human rights) as this case is 'legally significant' and hopes that they take on the case, in which case I won't need to pay for it (there is a facility for returning any donations received).

Horseman - this has nothing to do with Highland Council. This is all about Edinburgh Council breaking the law, namely disability discrimination, and trying to get away with it. The benefits of the original judgement being upheld are that my girl will feel validated and all the other things I said above. The case has no bearing on any support she may receive in the future from Highland Council.

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## cptdodger

This will sound harsh and for that I will apologise. Your daughter should already feel validated by the judgement of the court. they ruled she had been discriminated against, whatever Edinburgh Council did or did not do after that ruling should have no bearing on your childs self worth. If you raise the money or the ECHR actually take your case on, you may win your appeal, but all your daughter will get is a letter of apology from a Council that was forced to write it. How will it affect your daughter if you lose your appeal ?

You said yourself there is only one school in Scotland that is equipped to educate your daughter, and that school presumably has teachers that have had years of training in order to educate children with your daughters condition, I don't understand what Edinburgh Council was supposed to do if they did not have qualified teachers to actually provide your child with the special needs education she required.

I have no idea whether you have bought or rented your house in Gills Bay, if it is rented, then if I was you I would put my name on a Council House waiting list for Perthshire, because if that is the only school in Scotland that can educate your daughter, you should at least try to get there.

If you moved to Gills Bay for a fresh start, then for your daughter's sake, put this behind you. As I said, the Court of Law that ruled against Edinburgh Council gave your daughter all the validation she needed. Get on with your lives, as for your daughters education, I have no idea what you are going to do unless you relocate to Perthshire, but concentrate on that, not this. The damage caused by you losing this appeal could be monumental for your daughter, really, is it worth it?

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## mi16

If you read the posts, it is the council that are appealing not the OP, if she rolls over then the council win and there is no validation for her daughter.
i must admit in her shoes I would fight for my daughter also, however Caithness was probably not the best choice in relocation.

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## Goodfellers

Ruth, you are asking 'normal' people to consider helping you financially, as someone has already said, none of us are able to truly appreciate your situation so feel the need to ask questions and even play devils advocate, so please don't be too offended by my post below.

 If we forget the on going case for the moment, will you be expecting Highland Council to now provide an education? If they are unable to accommodate your daughter do you then have to start a whole new case against them?

 You say you are fighting for your daughter, does she want you to, or understand what you are doing? Does she understand the implications of an apology? Will there be cash compensation from Edinburgh council to enable you to fund tutors as I doubt your daughters educational needs can be met this far north if they could not be accommodated in Edinburgh.Reading the information on the link you provided, it seems that most children with this diagnosis do go to school, there is a link for teachers on the site. 

 You say there is a specialist school in Rotherham but say " I just don't want to move down there" I would have thought that with the effort you are putting in to this fight, your daughters needs would come first, not yours. There are also plenty of two bedroom properties in Perth for £60-70k which I imagine was less then Gills Bay.

 I understand living up here is most peoples dream. couldn't that dream have waited a couple of more years until your daughter had finished schooling? Employment is very limited in Caithness even for youngsters who have no disability, what do you envisage life for your daughter will be like as an adult up here? I assume you are fighting for her education to serve a purpose, i.e. being able to get a decent job and live as normal a life as possible.

 Good luck with your cause, from experience I can tell you that fighting for principles is a luxury usually reserved for the rich, sometimes it's better for your own health to put things behind you and move on.

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## ruth

howdy folks. Thanks for all the comments. They are useful to help sort out my jumbled thoughts.

Further info re: appeal - appeal will be heard in the inner house of the court of session and only solicitor advocates or advocates have the 'right of audience'.

If Edinburgh Council lose the appeal it does not result in any financial gain for my daughter.

Meltem found this place for us to live. We looked at some places in Perthshire but this place is much better and has scope for us to become as self-sustaining as possible so that none of my children will need support from the state.

It is unlikely, but possible, that Meltem will be able to live independently.

The children and families department of Edinburgh Council have failed many families. Here is a link to a case that has been ongoing since 2010 http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...cher-1-4071804. The boy in question is now doing well, but the parents are still continuing the fight as what happened to them was fundamentally wrong and such things continue to happen on a daily basis to autistic children.

I have no intention of asking Highland Council for support for any of my children. I think we will do just fine, in time, in this beautiful place.

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## cptdodger

I apologise, I read it the wrong way round, I think it was the amount of  money that was throwing me mi16. I still stand by what I said though, her  daughter received validation from the Court, had she not, nobody would  be appealing the judgement. As I said at the end of the day, the lady has moved her family out of Edinburgh, the only outcome of her fighting Edinburgh Council's appeal would be a letter of apology, which would further validate her daughter, and that's great but at a cost of £25,000 + ? It is not going to provide her daughter with an education in Caithness, because as she pointed out herself, there is only one school in Perthshire and one school in Rotherham.

Goodfellers put it better than I could.

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## cptdodger

> I have no intention of asking Highland Council for support for any of my children. I think we will do just fine, in time, in this beautiful place.


I don't think any of us were talking about financial support for your children from the Highland Council, we were questioning whether the Highland Council would be able to provide an education for your daughter.

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## The Horseman

> Kodiak - thank you for looking up that information for me. It is Meltem's solicitor at Govan Law (http://www.edlaw.org.uk/) that told me the cost of the case would be around £25 000 because a barrister is required. She also told me that she has contacted the ECHR (European commission on human rights) as this case is 'legally significant' and hopes that they take on the case, in which case I won't need to pay for it (there is a facility for returning any donations received).
> 
> Horseman - this has nothing to do with Highland Council. This is all about Edinburgh Council breaking the law, namely disability discrimination, and trying to get away with it. The benefits of the original judgement being upheld are that my girl will feel validated and all the other things I said above. The case has no bearing on any support she may receive in the future from Highland Council.


....I do not see where Edinburgh Council broke the Law.  They have every right to launch an Appeal as you do!  This seems to be an expensive 'validation'.   I have nothing personal in this, but it does not make sense to move away from the very area, that if you win, would be able to provide the assistance you need.   A case some years ago cost Edinburgh Council £153,000......They cannot afford it.  Autism and it's treatment is an issue that is talked about and complained about across the Globe.  Many families are trying to get assistance for their children.  There is a general shortage of money for specialized treatment such as this.

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## ruth

Edinburgh Council broke the law by discriminating against my daughter on the grounds of her disability. The Additional Support Needs Tribunal gave that judgement on 7/4/17. Here is a link to The Equality Act 2010 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents?

Whether Edinburgh Council win or lose the appeal, they have shown over the past 4 years that they have no intention of giving my daughter the support she needs.

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## The Horseman

You have your mind made up about discrimination......

Let the record show.....In 2010/2011 Edinburgh Council were tasked by the Court to fund an Autistic child in a special school in Aberdeen...cost was close to £150,000 per year, compared with approx £13,000 in Edinburgh.  A long story short.   The local councils cannot afford this type of care for every Autistic child.  Thus they are Appealing....because they cannot afford it.   The Court stated that they could deal with only one child at a time, and this would not apply to all 'disabled children'.
Basically the problem is money.....and the Councils do not have it.
I take no sides...the truth is the truth........perhaps you as the Mother ascertain the type of treatment these speciality schools use, and adapt to their ways.
In my area the same things is occurring........one must appreciate reality.

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## Phill

This is a curious one.
Where did the diagnosis come from if Edinburgh weren't playing ball?
Not sure my skim reading the thread has missed this, but did you approach Highland Council re SEN before relocating?

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## chaz

As a parent of an Autistic child can I ask where was your daughter educated up until 4 years ago ? I tend to agree with some that Perthshire would have maybe been a better option or finding out exactly what Highland council could offer before the move x

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## ruth

chaz, from p1-p5 she was educated in mainstream primary. In p6 she got a free place (as she is very intelligent) at a posh private school in Edinburgh, but this is when our daily challenges (I had no knowledge of autism at this time) became severe, so she swapped back to original primary, but by then had totally lost the ability to cope with daily life. She tried to kill herself in January of that year by headbutting concrete walls and steps at the Commonwealth pool. It took 4 adults to hold her back (she was only a skinny wee 10 year old) and she still managed to hurt her head. She was diagnosed later that year (it took more than 5 years and 3 referrals to CAMHS to find out what the problem was), offical diagnosis is 'ASD with extreme anxiety and avoidant behaviour'. She was 1st referred to CAMHS in 2009 age 6 when she stopped eating (hospitalised and put on drip), weighed only 18 kilos and wanted to die.

And, I have no intention of asking Highland Council for support in any shape or form, not with education, not with social care, nothing.

Horseman - I'm aware of the case you have talked about. However, this is a different kettle of fish. Firstly, it was the ASN Tribunal that judged Edinburgh Council had discriminated, not me. It is a court of law that has come to that decision, not me. 
When a child is absent from school due to ill health they are entitled to 3 to 7 hours of home tuition a week. That is all I've ever asked Edinburgh Council for. I have never asked them to fund a placement at a specialist school. I have only ever asked for what she is statutorily entitled to. 
And it wasn't just an apology that the ASN Tribunal ordered, however the other things that were ordered are not relevant to us as we have moved area. These things are relevant to all the other families in Edinburgh that are seeking support.

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## mi16

> chaz, from p1-p5 she was educated in mainstream primary. In p6 she got a free place (as she is very intelligent) at a posh private school in Edinburgh, but this is when our daily challenges (I had no knowledge of autism at this time) became severe, so she swapped back to original primary, but by then had totally lost the ability to cope with daily life. She tried to kill herself in January of that year by headbutting concrete walls and steps at the Commonwealth pool. It took 4 adults to hold her back (she was only a skinny wee 10 year old) and she still managed to hurt her head. She was diagnosed later that year (it took more than 5 years and 3 referrals to CAMHS to find out what the problem was), offical diagnosis is 'ASD with extreme anxiety and avoidant behaviour'. She was 1st referred to CAMHS in 2009 age 6 when she stopped eating (hospitalised and put on drip), weighed only 18 kilos and wanted to die.And, I have no intention of asking Highland Council for support in any shape or form, not with education, not with social care, nothing.Horseman - I'm aware of the case you have talked about. However, this is a different kettle of fish. Firstly, it was the ASN Tribunal that judged Edinburgh Council had discriminated, not me. It is a court of law that has come to that decision, not me. When a child is absent from school due to ill health they are entitled to 3 to 7 hours of home tuition a week. That is all I've ever asked Edinburgh Council for. I have never asked them to fund a placement at a specialist school. I have only ever asked for what she is statutorily entitled to. And it wasn't just an apology that the ASN Tribunal ordered, however the other things that were ordered are not relevant to us as we have moved area. These things are relevant to all the other families in Edinburgh that are seeking support.


I applaud you for taking on the system, and I hope you can raise the necessary to defend the appeal.If you dont defend your daughters corner then who will?Have you tried approaching legal counsel to see if you could perhaps appeal to their softer side and obtain cheaper representation?

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## chaz

[QUOTE=ruth;1167211]chaz, from p1
 I am rather confused as on the first page you state you are waiting to hear what support you will get. There are many children in the area with complex needs , I wish you well with your plight for justice x

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## ruth

hallo chaz, I haven't found where I said I'm waiting to hear what support we'll get. I think I said I'm happy to home educate whilst I'm finding out what support is available locally. By 'support available locally' I mean things that will specifically help my daughter. For example, Puffin Croft Farm at John O'Groats has already been a big help to my daughter. And I will find more things like that, I'm quite sure. And I've been in touch with North Highland College and evening classes there are a possibility. But after my experiences in Edinburgh I do not want to get sucked back into the system. Community support is better for us.

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## chaz

I must have misunderstood your post I have copied below , that you were intending an education within a local school. x
We moved to Gills Bay on 24th February. Until that date she was on school roll in Edinburgh, but not receiving any education (oh, she did get 3 maths lessons - not a lot but better than nowt). She is currently being home-educated whilst I find out if she would get the support she needs to attend school up here. I have managed to find her a maths and physics tutor but am still looking for tutors for English, biology, chemistry and art. Let me know if you know any tutors!

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## The Horseman

Today in North America I read of an innovative...I Believe...new process which is being used on similar children and that is 'Self Hypnosis', which has been surprisingly successful.... teaches them to monitor themselves....fyi..

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## ruth

horseman - I'll check out that self-hypnosis, thanks.
chaz - ah yes, now I see the comment I made. Yes, I don't think school is an option, been getting info from other asd/pda families in Highland, but you never know, maybe in a year or so she'd manage, but at the moment thinking the evening class once a week is probably the most she could manage.

And thanks everyone for the chat and feel free to share my campaign, thanks, https://www.youcaring.com/meltemsrights-842295

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## Tavendale

> Today in North America I read of an innovative...I Believe...new process which is being used on similar children and that is 'Self Hypnosis', which has been surprisingly successful.... teaches them to monitor themselves....fyi..


Perhaps I could also interest you in some snake oil?  The number of insane, poorly evidenced and non-peer-reviewed 'treatments' offered up to the parents of autistic children is, by this point, beyond reckoning.

Not a go at you personally, by the way, just at yet another of these 'treatments'.

I don't really understand what the OP hopes to accomplish besides making some lawyers yet wealthier, but I've also not been through the whole process, as they have.  We do have different perspectives. 

The described head banging is not uncommon among autistic children.  It's distressing, to be sure, but tend to be related to sensory issues or anxiety rather than a conscious effort to kill one's self.  It's a form of self-regulation.  Again, though, severity can vary and it can be very distressing.

To be honest, being relatively familiar with education and ASN, I'm not totally sure how things were able to get to this stage.  Must have been quite intense.

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## The Horseman

Am a little surprised re your comments...
Quote.....General Practitioners...Doctors know very little about Autism.  Perhaps this is why people are looking for new Avenues.
1 in 88 people are now being diagnosed with some type of Autism.
My interest in suggesting this to Ruth, was it came from Johns Hopkins University in the United States....perhaps you have never heard of it, or it's just another Anti Trump day over 'ome!

As there are so many variants of said Condition, and no money to treat 1 in 88 people, there are still people...The Medical Profession.....who are attempting to come to grips with it.   What works for one perhaps will not work for another.......And I think it is better to have some hope and trial and error, than to throw one's hands up and say impossible.

In addition there is no cost to read, and there is no danger in concocting drugs which could harm said children.  If it works it is a success.    s

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## Tavendale

> perhaps you have never heard of it, or it's just another Anti Trump day over 'ome!


Ok?  I'm not really good at responding to non-sequiturs but, ok?  I guess?

Variance is true of any condition, you're right.  But the variance cuts both ways in that the segment of the autistic population who could make use of this is rather narrow, given the different ways in which the condition can manifest.  The combination with PDA, which I've had some dealings with in the past, would suggest to me this particular approach would be a non-starter, but individuals are... well, _individual_.

Fair point on the lack of investment needed also.

I suppose I've just seen a lot of parents taken along for a ride on similar sounding treatments and leap into something of a knee-jerk skepticism.

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## The Horseman

Ruth....I searched Autism asd/pda self hypnosis and there are some 'you tube' videos.
I don't know if they will assist you/daughter but it is just another Avenue to follow.
I understand what 'T' is talking about, but nothing ventured nothing gained.
There have been amazing discoveries and results in many Medical Fields ...perhaps look at it like Trial/Error and Elimination.....but there may be something to discover.....any hope, is better than No Hope.

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## Bogbrush

> and there is no danger in concocting drugs which could harm said children.  If it works it is a success.    s


Que? Perhaps you would like to oversee the child selection programme for your eugenics experiment?

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## The Horseman

> Que? Perhaps you would like to oversee the child selection programme for your eugenics experiment?


What are you getting at.......strange one!

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## The Horseman

All should read the comments on the You caring/Go fund site.... it is on the very first post!
Seems someone is alleging a false name for the person requesting the Funds.

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## cptdodger

> All should read the comments on the You caring/Go fund site.... it is on the very first post!
> Seems someone is alleging a false name for the person requesting the Funds.



Can you put the comment on here, because I can't find it on the Go Fund thing.

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## aidipi

Sorry, I don't understand why you won't allow your child to be given the opportunity to attend school in Caithness where there is specialist support.

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## The Horseman

> Can you put the comment on here, because I can't find it on the Go Fund thing.


If you open the very first Post....at the end you will see some blue script. That tells a story with comments from a number of people...... Two comments by a man who said he knew this woman, I think he used the words 'fake' and she was misspelling her real name, have now been deleted....new comments there.
Dunno, seems there is something strange with this whole thing.
My thoughts were that if the Appeal was successful, which the £20,000 was for, then Edinburgh Council would have to foot the bill for treatment, but why then move to Caithness which is a long way from Edinburgh....perhaps this is real.....it just doesn't now give a clear view of the journey.

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## cptdodger

> If you open the very first Post....at the end you will see some blue script. That tells a story with comments from a number of people...... Two comments by a man who said he knew this woman, I think he used the words 'fake' and she was misspelling her real name, have now been deleted....new comments there.
> Dunno, seems there is something strange with this whole thing.
> My thoughts were that if the Appeal was successful, which the £20,000 was for, then Edinburgh Council would have to foot the bill for treatment, but why then move to Caithness which is a long way from Edinburgh....perhaps this is real.....it just doesn't now give a clear view of the journey.



I must admit I am struggling with this as well. She has repeated time and time again, the money she is trying to raise for the appeal is not just for an apology, well I am afraid it has to be because that is all Edinburgh Council can give her, they can't educate her child now because she moved. She fought four years to get education for her daughter, she moves here and is not even going to attempt to contact the council here to arrange or try to arrange schooling for her child. She says she is doing this for other children who are disabled in Edinburgh, which is great but the outcome of this or any other case has no bearing on any other child, they are treated as individuals on a case to case basis, not as a group. Seemingly there are two schools in Britain, one in Perthshire and one in Rotherham (I think) that can educate her child, so she moves to the remotest part of the British Mainland. Now, she is either not explaining herself clearly and this all makes perfect sense, or it's something else, but it just does not add up.

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## Bogbrush

> I must admit I am struggling with this as well. .


Ditto. 

If this is a quest to raise £25k for a council's apology, then get lost. If it were a request for funds for a child's specialist education, then I'd probably chip in happily. But I don't buy this one. A fundraising effort shouldn't have to produce three pages of Q & A on a minor board in order to get support. 

I'm out.

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