# General > Birdwatching >  Why?

## porshiepoo

Does anyone have any idea why people would shoot the nests of crows this time of year?
Obviously they are hoping to kill the young but surely the nests of an established rookery would be at least a foot thick with the hide of cement?
And wouldn't shooting the young just bring about another clutch anyways?

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## the_count

I know that when i was younger the local farmer used to shoot the rooks nests to kill some of the young (they lay early and the eggs will have already hatched) It was his way of keeping down Rook numbers for the end of the year. That was thity five years ago so probably just following the same old tradition. Hope that answers your question :Grin:

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## Seabird

> Does anyone have any idea why people would shoot the nests of crows this time of year?
> Obviously they are hoping to kill the young but surely the nests of an established rookery would be at least a foot thick with the hide of cement?
> And wouldn't shooting the young just bring about another clutch anyways?


They hope to smash the eggs and kill the female who would be sat on them, it's done to keep the numbers down.
Rooks,crows and magpie numbers have been kept under control this way for many years.
(Ravens are protected)

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## teenybash

Such a pity this practice still goes on despite the suffering it causes to the birds.
Some time past I found a young rook by the road side with the main joint of her wing blown out. She was obviously terrified and in a lot of pain. I tucked her inside my shirt and took her home and despite her fear and discomfort accepted the food I gave her. She has brought such joy, humour and love into my life that I will always be thankful I found her.
Glad to say after nine years she is still here and seems happy and content despite the fact she will never fly.
Maybe the shooting of rooks from their nest should be stopped.....but I suppose there are those who do not view it as cruel....which of course it is.

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## nirofo

It's apity this practice is still carried on in some quarters, even though it's fairly well known that Rooks are probably more beneficial to a farmer than a pest.  They eat all sorts of creepy crawlies that do damage to farm produce.  OK, so they eat some of the seed that the farmer plants and they do make a bit of a mess, so what, so do we and we are far more destructive than the Rooks!

Here's a photo of a few Rooks coming home at sunset.

nirofo.

*Rookery Sunset.*

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## WeeBurd

The numbers in our area certainly seem to be growing, we've far more visiting this year. I think they're quite comical loking birds when they're waddling around in the garden, and have come to enjoy their visits (well, certainly since they've stopped knocking my seed feeder down every morning, and ruining my poor old decrepit rowan tree, lol!).

It is sad to hear of culling taking place, however I also vividly remember the noise, mess and stench they make when they are nesting in large numbers (anyone remember "Smelly Alley" in Thurso, just off Ormlie Road, leading to the garages of Heathfield Road? Pooh, yuck!), so could perhaps understand if people were looking to control numbers on their own property.  :: 

Super pic, Nirofo!

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## Kismet

Cruel cruel cruel  :Frown: 

(((anyone remember "Smelly Alley" in Thurso, just off Ormlie Road, leading to the garages of Heathfield Road? Pooh, yuck!)))

yeah stank to high heavens lol

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## dragonfly

> Cruel cruel cruel 
> 
> (((anyone remember "Smelly Alley" in Thurso, just off Ormlie Road, leading to the garages of Heathfield Road? Pooh, yuck!)))
> 
> yeah stank to high heavens lol


yep, used to run the gauntlet each morning/afternoon on the way to/from school - its slightly better now as the owners of the big house have chopped down a lot of the trees so not so many tree tops left for the crows to nest in, but they are still there nonetheless

also, what a lovely story Teenybash, delighted your crow is still with you

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## scorpion

ok so shooting thier nests might not be good practice or nice to see but seeing two rooks going for a young lamb which was on its feet just behind its mother ,blood running down its back leg and bleating in pain as it had just had its hip ripped to the bone to such an extent that the farmer couldnt save it ,would have gone for the gun myself then !

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## nirofo

> ok so shooting thier nests might not be good practice or nice to see but seeing two rooks going for a young lamb which was on its feet just behind its mother ,blood running down its back leg and bleating in pain as it had just had its hip ripped to the bone to such an extent that the farmer couldnt save it ,would have gone for the gun myself then !


 
Are you sure they were Rooks and not Crows?  Rooks are not well known for doing this, Crows however are very well known for it!

nirofo

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## Riffman

I'm afraid rooks are just as bad as crows at attacking livestock.  Despite what people think, they will eat almost anything, and do attack lambs.  

Shooting nests is quite ineffective really, targeting the young, 'branchers' is the most common method really.

They may look nice in a town, but spend a day on a field and you will be amazed at the damage they do, not as bad as wood pigeon, but bad enough to be a problem.  If you want to eat your weetabix you will need wheat.  And that means pest control.

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## Riffman

In reply to whether its cruel.  Killing a rook outright is not cruel.  If you start giving animals the same rights as humans you bring the humans down to the level of animals.

Cruelty would be deliberately shooting a rook to wound it and leave it.  Shooting to kill it is not cruelty.

Perhaps you need to spend some time observing how nature really works, its not all fluffy and cute, its a bloody battle where no concessions are given.

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## the_count

passed by the rookery behind wick church and noticed that some youngsters are out the nest already so they must hav read this post lol ::

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## scorpion

I am not a fan of rooks ,crows ,seagulls etc but could not actually go out and shoot them however when you see any animal suffering due to attacks by these birds it does make the blood boil ,on the other side i was out at Seater tip with a load for the landfill and one of the most cruel things i have seen is the number of Gulls that fly in looking for scraps and then get caught in the nets trying to get out and are just left hanging to die

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## nirofo

> I am not a fan of rooks ,crows ,seagulls etc but could not actually go out and shoot them however when you see any animal suffering due to attacks by these birds it does make the blood boil ,on the other side i was out at Seater tip with a load for the landfill and one of the most cruel things i have seen is the number of Gulls that fly in looking for scraps and then get caught in the nets trying to get out and are just left hanging to die


 
*If this is the case you should report the Council to the RSPB and the SSPCA. It is an offence under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 to cause unnecessary suffering to any wild animal or bird, regardles of whether they are a protected species or not. Leaving a bird to die a lingering death in the nets is wanton cruelty, the culprits should be prosecuted and provision made to ensure that the birds cannot become entangled in the future!*

*nirofo.*

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## northener

> *If this is the case you should report the Council to the RSPB and the SSPCA. It is an offence under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 to cause unnecessary suffering to any wild animal or bird, regardles of whether they are a protected species or not. Leaving a bird to die a lingering death in the nets is wanton cruelty, the culprits should be prosecuted and provision made to ensure that the birds cannot become entangled in the future!*
> 
> *nirofo.*


With respect, Nirofo.

How would you tackle the problem at Seater then?

N.

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## Kevin Milkins

Some members of the crow family
Jay/Magpie/Jackdaw/Rook/Carion Crow/Hooded Crow/Raven.
All have there good and bad points ,but who are we to say which one should live or die.
Parts of Birmingham is overcrowded and messy with people, but some might get offended if I sugested a culling programe.
Rooks are good food so if anybody has a problem with them kill them and eat them. That is natures way.

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## Alasdair

I am 56 years old and have been involved in sheep farming all my life. My lambing season is just drawing to a close and it has been quite similar to so many others I have had over the years regarding the hazards being faced from predators, particularly crows.

As farmers, we live and work amongst all types of animals and birds, in their natural habitat, and appreciate their lifestyles. It is one of the pleasures a farmer gets as it is part and parcel of his/her workplace. Of all the creatures I have studied during my life, there is NOTHING as intelligent as the crow and, in particular, the Hoodie Crow.

A sheep farmer with a lifetime's experience is able to stand at a fence and look out over a flock of 200 ewes and detect the most subtle mannerisms of an individual ewe which indicate that she is about to lamb, is showing some signs of impending illness or is vulnerable in some way or other. There is only one other living creature more able than the sheep farmer in this department, and that is the crow.

Let me list just a few events, involving the crow's attacks on my flock during the last two weeks alone:-

1) A ewe is giving birth to a lamb and is having difficulty getting the head and legs of the lamb out through the birth canal. Only the nose of the lamb is visible. The ewe had been seen two hours previously, at 6am, and she was not showing signs of giving birth. The crow analysed his options and his chances of a meal and crept in to the ewe as she tried to press her youngster into the world. As she did so, the crow repeatedly pecked and ate the tongue of the young lamb, although only its nose was accessible. When I arrived and lambed the ewe, the lamb was still alive but minus a tongue. It had no hope of ever suckling its mother or, in the future, eating grass without a tongue. Fortunately for it, death followed shortly afterwards.

2) A ewe is on her back as she gives birth to a big strong single lamb. She is unable to get up as her fleece compresses so the lamb is exposed and vulnerable for the few minutes that I am elsewhere. The crow recognises the ewe's condition and descends on the lamb. It taps and taps on its skull until it makes a hole the size of a 5p coin. It then proceeds to eat part of the lamb's brain. The lamb is rescued some minutes later and lives for about a week  after receiving intensive attention.

3) A ewe gives birth to triplets. As she is preoccupied with one of the youngsters, the crow moves in on the other two and proceeds to open the same 5p hole, as described above, and eats all of their brains. A painful death, if ever there was one.

4) Yesterday, I toured around my flock to check on ewes that had lambs that were two weeks old. One ewe had been unable to stand up after a night's sleep because her fleece was compressed. The crow was intelligent enough to know that she was not sleeping, although to the ordinary passer-by she may have looked like she was and, as her lamb snuggled into her body for comfort, the crow proceeded to eat the eye out of the living ewe.

I could spend all day recounting examples of the intelligence, visciousness and imbalance of the crow population. My lambing period gives much interest to non-farming folk who are, rightly, enthralled by the whole process of birth and the satisfaction of saving lives through being attentive and caring for ones animals.Consequently, I have a variety of such volunteers who accompany me as I look after the flock. It is fascinating to note how the attitudes of these people change towards the crow once they've witnessed its handiwork. They become much more aggressive towards the crow than I ever have been as I, living and working amongst the whole mix of wildlife, can recognise the right of every species to exist. However, the crow and other predators exist now in disproportionate numbers due to the fact that the food supply and habitat afforded to them by farmers create such a growth in numbers.

Nowadays, it is only about 2% of the human population that have a working knowledge of agriculture. Consequently, the other 98% are very vulnerable to misinformation fed to them by full-time organisations whose very survival depends on creating an 'enemy' that they need to defend wildlife against. A catchy quote that easily rolls off the tongue is that the decline in songbirds, etc is due to ' the changes in farming practice'. Another favourite is  'the use of herbicides and pesticides'.  My farm, and those of my neighbours, are livestock rearing farms that have been such for hundreds of years. They do NOT use these chemicals but all these farmers see what I see. That is, the enormous growth of predator birds, the decline in gamekeepering control due to economic constraints and the intimidation from a well-meaning, but misinformed, 98% population.

Sorry for being so long winded but the decline in bird numbers, and the reasons for it, are of greater annoyance to us farmers than most as we have to witness the results at first hand. To finish let me tell you one more short story----- A few years ago  I was rolling a field and, very carefully, made a mental note of three scurlies(oyster catchers) nests and two peewits nests that I needed to avoid. As I finished for the evening a group of crows and seagulls landed on the field. When I returned in the morning to restart the work, ALL of the nests had been cleaned out of their eggs. Just one field but a large number of  scurlies and peewits that would not be heard calling next Spring. The biggest threat to lambs and young birds is already wreaking havoc in the glens around this area with the arrival of the protected raven in large numbers. If you think what I have recounted above is worrying, you ain't seen nothing yet !!!

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## Kevin Milkins

Thank you for that insight into the problems of a sheep farmer and crows Alsidair.
I have spent most of my working life on farms and have learned a bit from your very informative thread.
Wellcome to the Org and keep posting.

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## binbob

> Thank you for that insight into the problems of a sheep farmer and crows Alsidair.
> I have spent most of my working life on farms and have learned a bit from your very informative thread.
> Wellcome to the Org and keep posting.


as far as i am concerned ...they and we are all gods creatures.what gives anyone the right to kill??

hope u enjoy the trip south ,kevin..!!!

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## nirofo

> With respect, Nirofo.
> 
> How would you tackle the problem at Seater then?
> 
> N.


 
As I stated earlier, it is a wildlife offence to knowingly allow cruelty and suffering to any wild animal or bird, it is therefore the responsibility of the Council to ensure that it's workforce are aware of this and to make sure that any birds that do become entangled in the nets are released as soon as possible.  If this means they need to have someone available to do this, then that is what should happen.  For *anyone* to leave a bird hanging and struggling in the nets, regardless of whether or not it is a Seagull, a Crow or whatever is an act of cruelty and should be dealt with accordingly.  If the Council are aware of this going on then they should take immediate steps to put a stop to it and make sure it does'nt continue!

nirofo.

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## Anji

Welcome to the Org. Alasdair.
That was an interesting and informative first contribution.  I hope we can expect more of the same in future.

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