# General > General >  Isreali Blockade of Lebanon

## squidge

what on earth is going on in the Lebanon?  Israel have blockaded The whole country and bombed the airport?  Is this really necessary to get back their soldier?  Is this a completely uneccessary escalation and a hostile act of war by a country who appear to be intent on causing misery and war wherever they look?  or is it a justifiable act?  I am baffled  to be honest

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## golach

> what on earth is going on in the Lebanon? Israel have blockaded The whole country and bombed the airport? Is this really necessary to get back their soldier? Is this a completely uneccessary escalation and a hostile act of war by a country who appear to be intent on causing misery and war wherever they look? or is it a justifiable act? I am baffled to be honest


I think Israel has gone a bit OTT, but think of it Squidge, Israel is surrounded by hostile arab countries who's one aim is the destruction of the state of Israel. They must retaliate as they did in the Yom Kypur(sp)* war when the might of Egypt attacked, and were trounced soundly, and if it had not been for the UN and others Israel would have gone all the way in to Cairo.
I am not promoting what Israel has done in any way, but when your backs against the wall, needs must. A blockade to me is a none violent way of getting your point across.Israel has adpoted an old Scots saying "Wha Dawr Meddle Wi Me".

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## sjwahwah

how is bombing an airport non-violent? 

Israel has adopted nothing from the Scots. They "adopt" $5-6 billion dollars a year from the US taxpayers to subsidise their army. They would not have the capabilities to blockade anything without Americas "grants" would they? So, one wonders how much say Israels grantors have in how and when they use their money & arms?

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## canuck

> what on earth is going on in the Lebanon? Israel have blockaded The whole country and bombed the airport? Is this really necessary to get back their soldier? Is this a completely uneccessary escalation and a hostile act of war by a country who appear to be intent on causing misery and war wherever they look? or is it a justifiable act? I am baffled to be honest


Squidge, I was just getting around to reading today's news and read the report on the bombings.  I totally agree with you.  I know that we hear of these things almost daily, but this one has frightened me.   I don't think that any of us even begin to understand the politcal, religious and cultural issues at work in the Middle East.   Beyond that, I really don't know what to say.  I am not a big fan of wishing for peace, then walking away from taking any responsibility to help make it happen.   But in this case I don't know what any of us can do but hope.

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## j4bberw0ck

> how is bombing an airport non-violent?


On a point of information; they've bombed the runway, not the airport.  If you're blockading a country, it stops flights in or out.

It's also true to say that Hezbollah, recognized universally as a terrorist organisation whose stated aim is to sweep Israel into the sea, and which is committed to suicide bombings involving (amongst others) the use of children, has never ceased hostility against Israel.

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## pultneytooner

> what on earth is going on in the Lebanon?  Israel have blockaded The whole country and bombed the airport?  Is this really necessary to get back their soldier?  Is this a completely uneccessary escalation and a hostile act of war by a country who appear to be intent on causing misery and war wherever they look?  or is it a justifiable act?  I am baffled  to be honest


Two soldiers were captured, eight killed and two injured.

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## fred

> what on earth is going on in the Lebanon?  Israel have blockaded The whole country and bombed the airport?  Is this really necessary to get back their soldier?  Is this a completely uneccessary escalation and a hostile act of war by a country who appear to be intent on causing misery and war wherever they look?  or is it a justifiable act?  I am baffled  to be honest


Israel captures some Lebonese Arabs and puts them in prison their freinds grab a couple of Israeli soldiers and say "give us our friends back and we'll give you your soldiers back".

Israel goes way over the top in the hope of drawing Iran and Syria into the conflict in which case America has the excuse they've been looking for.

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## pultneytooner

Comeon fred, that is a bit contrived, israel draw syria and iran into a conflict to give america an opportunity to attack iran.
Guess you believe in all this zionist bull?

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## sjwahwah

a demonstration of military might on a countries civilians is violent. using weapons of any means for any use is violence or threatens violence.

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## golach

> a demonstration of military might on a countries civilians is violent. using weapons of any means for any use is violence or threatens violence.


Excuse me, but what are the Hezbollah doing firing rockets in to civilian Kibutz. Is that not violence? I do not understand you and Fred, Israel is defending itself against most of the Arab world for many years now, and doing a not too bad job of it, yet you pair are the first in here to jump on your anti  American soap boxes.Is it the devine right of the Arab nations to drive the state of Israel into the sea? I think not and if Israel occupies the Golan Heights and the Gazza strip again, then I for one will say good on you, your defending your State.

Edited because sjwahwah did not like my choice of words

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## sjwahwah

excuse me... I only said that demonstrating a threatening stance over civilians and using weapons is violent.. 

So now we're anti-semitic? watch what you say.. and who you slander.

btw... I agree with you Fred... that's exactly what America is wanting... making sure they get their bang for their buck.

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## golach

> excuse me... I only said that demonstrating a threatening stance over civilians and using weapons is violent.. 
> 
> So now we're anti-semitic? watch what you say.. and who you slander.
> 
> btw... I agree with you Fred... that's exactly what America is wanting... making sure they get their bang for their buck.


As you did not like my choice of words I have edited it out of my previous posting. But I did not edit it for fear of your threats, so do not crow too much sjwahwah

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## sjwahwah

GOLACH...aye.. you've edited out because in the heat of the moment without reading the posts properly you told me (& Fred for that matter) I was anti-semitic and when you've gone back to read what you wrote you maybe thought it isn't so nice to accuse people of being anti-semitic for no good reason? 

i say watch what you say as I would've thought slingin' slander in front of the mods could land you in Caithnessamo Bay.

and quit sending me private messages to tell me what I can and cannot say please!

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## sjwahwah

and hey! I'm not anti-American. I'm against the oppression of Americans by their government. There is a very large difference.

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## golach

> GOLACH
> and quit sending me private messages to tell me what I can and cannot say please!


 a small correction I sent ONE pm to you not plural
please see copy of it below

"Please do not threaten me to "watch it" again because I dissagree with your views
__________________
The original Grumpy Owld Man "

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## sjwahwah

do you read the posts or do you just not bother?!? i say watch what you say as I would've thought slingin' slander in front of the mods could land you in Caithnessamo Bay.

you obviously know your bang out of order if you've edited it.. so, quit trying to dodge the issue of YOU calling ME a racist for no apparent reason whatsoever!

just go back to the beginning of the thread... read.. interpret language and tell me which part was anti-semitic?!? have your views... but, you don't know me and I've not even breathed a hint of anti-semitism and you accuse me of being racist, so, I'll pull you up for it any and everytime whether you like it or not!

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## fred

> Comeon fred, that is a bit contrived, israel draw syria and iran into a conflict to give america an opportunity to attack iran.
> Guess you believe in all this zionist bull?


What Zionist bull would that be? I haven't said anything about the Zionist movement in this thread.

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## Kenn

I use that title as there is a book by that name which expounds the fact that Israelites are the children of god and I think i am correct in quoting "The lord my god is a vengeful god." Is not also a law in both Islam and Hebrew, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth?"
If I am wrong no doubt some one will correct me but maybe this goes some way to explain some of the ideological differences between ourselves and those middle eastern nations.When to negotiate is seen as weakness and power becomes the criteria of governments and nations then these extreme actions on all sides are the result.
I find it some thing of an anathema as being brought up in a different culture where we are taught all men are equal this type of tit for tat vengeance is alien to me.
I try to understand , it must be hard to see the life blood being sucked from the land that is home to you and generations of your ancestors by a nation created artificially by a world shamed by events that took place during WW2.
Equally the determination of The Isrealites never to suffer the same horrors again might go some way to explaining the hard line that their government invariably takes.
It's only my personal view but I feel that the bullet and the bomb are  never an answer and if we pride ourselves on our intelligence and humanity then surely we have the wisdom  and the patience to step back from the threshold and look for alternative ways.

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## Gleber2

At the time of the Exodus from Egypt, the returning Hebrew soldiers wiped out everyone they found occupying the lands that they had fled to avoid famine. When Joshua broke down the walls of Jericho and slaughtered the inhabitants he killed his own people who had stayed on. DNA testing has proved that the slaughtered people were in fact jews also.

This over the top, we are the chosen people and we can do what we want attitude is still evident in the events of today. Palestininian people have had worse treatment at the hands of the Jewish race than all the suicide bombers in the world could create. It is not surprising that their response is getting desperate. Lebanon is now engaged in war and it will not stop there. 

The racial arrogance of the Jewish race is liable to plunge the whole world into conflict and, if recent history is anything to go by, the USA will come in on the side of Israel and what will Tony do? Chriatian versus Muslim at the behest of the Jew!!!Truly, Armageddon cannot be to far in the future!!!

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## George Brims

Oh goody, it's "blame the Jews" day! Just as a point of information Israel is a "secular" state, having (unlike oh, say, Scotland) no established church. It's not a Jewish country, it's a country that contains a lot of Jews, and Moslem Arabs, and Christians. 

I see this latest mess as a temporary setback in the excruciatingly slow progress towards a peaceful Middle East. After all the Palestinians now have their own sort of "homeland". The next job is for Israel and that new country to learn how to be peaceful neighbours. Maybe in another 20 years they'll get there.

"An eye for an eye makes everybody blind" - Albert Einstein

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## scotsboy

Gleber 2 wrote: 


> I was a travelling musician for many years and I've been in more chip shops than Ye've hed hot deeners check. I wouldn't voluntarilly eat from any chip shop in this area. I lived in Lancashire for a while and they really respect the chip shop cuisine. Nothing in the world better than a skate supper in Aberdeen. Sometimes I wish I wasn't a vegetarian.


Aye, I was referring to now though. Never had a Skate supper, sounds good - had a smoked haddy supper in Shetland.

Are there any chippers that make allowances for veggies?

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## Gleber2

> Gleber 2 wrote: 
> 
> Aye, I was referring to now though. Never had a Skate supper, sounds good - had a smoked haddy supper in Shetland.
> 
> Are there any chippers that make allowances for veggies?


Veggie burgers is about the best you'll get and most of them contain egg albumen.

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## JAWS

> As a Lancashire lass i heartily agree with you Gleber2 - chips fish and mushy peas, or hollands meat pies and steak and kidney puddings 
> 
> Ahhhhhh Im homesick now


Stop it squidge, you've got my taste buds going. If I could do anything I wanted, a proper Lancashire Chippy is the only English thing I would insist on imposing on Caithness. 

I wouldn't want to change the Caithness Chippys, I'd just add one proper Lancashire Chippy to them, including the Hollands Steak & Kidney Puds and mushy peas. I really do miss them.

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## canuck

> Stop it squidge, you've got my taste buds going. If I could do anything I wanted, a proper Lancashire Chippy is the only English thing I would insist on imposing on Caithness. 
> 
> I wouldn't want to change the Caithness Chippys, I'd just add one proper Lancashire Chippy to them, including the Hollands Steak & Kidney Puds and mushy peas. I really do miss them.


It sounds a whole lot more appealing than veggie burgers.

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## Kaishowing

> Murder is murder is murder!


Not that I disagree, but when does it become a justifiable act?

Stopping cold a suicide bomber?....Or stopping the escape of an unarmed known terrorist to prevent any further attacks?....or maybe a Hitler figure?

When does it stop being murder and becomes Defence Of The Realm?? Is the only difference political backing?

I know that it's an old argument, but it's still interesting to see what people say! :Smile:  

And as for the original thread, I was reading this: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...281903,00.html
 and found the similarity in tactics and military situation with the Vietnam war striking. Seems the Israelies didn't read their history books!

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## MadPict

The 20 years that Israel spent in Lebanon have been described by the Israelis as "their Vietnam" and I don't think they wish to repeat that mistake....

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## Kaishowing

...perhaps that what 'they say'..........but the current situation proves them if not liars, then none too bright!

So who'll be the major force in the Middle East after this??? The USA or Iran? After all, thats what it all boils down to!

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## MadPict

> ...perhaps that what 'they say'..........but the current situation proves them if not liars, then none too bright!


So they ignore the Katyusha rockets, the destruction of their infrastructure, the killing and maiming of their citizens? Unlike the UK government who rolled over and gave in to the IRA and let murders walk free from prison at least the Israelis have the guts to stand up for themselves, unpleasant as the results may be. After the Six Day War when they well and truly kicked the Arabs they were 'left alone' for many years.

You might consider them "none too bright" but many countries have learnt a lot from the tactics developed by Israel over the years. 
Lessons from a fool?
I think not......

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## Kaishowing

And so in response to the _'killing and maiming of their citizens',_ they release their military in it's entire US's catspaw splendour, and do the same in return?
What Israel have been doing is nothing different than what the English did to the Scottish during the time of Longshanks or during the clearances....Do you defend that too??
The countries that have learned most from the Israeli tactics are their own neighbours...and now turnabout is fair play!! Those same tactics are employed against them, and they don't like it!
Israel itself was created through torrorism, but when it's used to create another state or country thats a step too far!!
Don't get me wrong, I do not defend terrorism in any shape or form, but for someone to claim that the current situation in the middle-east is a measured and reasonable response astounds me.
If you think Israel is free of sin, then why not google the QIBYA MASSACRE    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibya_Massacre ) ....or investigate Ariel Sharon's personal history as a terrorist.
I have friends living in both areas, just ordinary people who couldn't care less about anything other than living in peace.
So, defend away...but open your eyes to what you're defending.

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## MadPict

> And I am only too aware of the history of Israel and how the 'terrorist' Israelis bombed the King David Hotel in 1946, killing many British, Arab and Jewish people - possibly seen as the very first act of modern day terrorism....
> 
> Just as I am aware of the misery being inflicted on the people of Beirut by the military actions of Israel - action which did not start until Hezbollah started their attacks. So, Hezbollah are the instigators of this awful scenario now unfolding. Israel may well bow to pressure from the UN to cease fire, but what about Hezbollah?


Perhaps if you read back a couple of pages you would realise I am only too aware of the history of Israel....

I also am aware that Israel's hands are certainly not free from blood or blame in the past. But when terrorists acting on the behest of another nation/s creates yet more bloodshed on both sides of the border the country being attacked has the right to defend itself.

And what happened between England and Scotland in the distant past (including the betrayal of Scots by other Scots) is certainly nothing to be proud of but is far removed from the current situation in the Middle East - at least in those days it was bloody hand to hand combat and not indiscriminate bombing from miles away.
And no I do not defend the acts of greedy land owners to replace their tenants with sheep.......

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## fred

> So they ignore the Katyusha rockets, the destruction of their infrastructure, the killing and maiming of their citizens?


What destruction of their infrastructure? Israels infrastructure hasn't been damaged, it's Lebanons infrastructure that has been totally destroyed. Hezbollah doesn't have American laser and satelite guided bombs they only have Katyusha rockets.

Last figures I saw was 37 Israelis killed 17 of them civillian and 370 Lebonese, most of them civillian.

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## MadPict

> Hezbollah doesn't have American laser and satelite guided bombs they only have Katyusha rockets.


_...they only have Katyusha rockets._

Since the fighting began Hezbollah has deployed a range of extremely sophisticated weapons against Israel. The most notable has been the Iranian C-802 Noor (Tondar) variant of the Chinese Silkworm missile that was used against an Israeli gunship off the Lebanese coast. Four Israeli sailors were killed, and the gunship was put out of commission.

The Associated Press reports that "Iran is believed to have supplied Hezbollah with up to 120 Fajr-3 and Fajr-5 rockets, with ranges of 22 miles and 45 miles respectively," noting that it was a Fajr-3 that is thought to have been responsible for an attack on Haifa that killed 8 civilians. More recently, Israeli military officials have sought to destroy sites in Lebanon believed to house long-range Zelzal missiles of Iranian manufacture that they suspect are capable of hitting Tel Aviv. 

Then of course there are the 12-15,000 Katyusha rockets they have stockpiled....





> Last figures I saw was 37 Israelis killed 17 of them civillian and 370 Lebonese, most of them civillian.


407 too many......

But Hezbollah threw the first 'punch'.....

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## pultneytooner

> So they ignore the Katyusha rockets, the destruction of their infrastructure, the killing and maiming of their citizens? Unlike the UK government who rolled over and gave in to the IRA and let murders walk free from prison at least the Israelis have the guts to stand up for themselves, unpleasant as the results may be. After the Six Day War when they well and truly kicked the Arabs they were 'left alone' for many years.
> 
> You might consider them "none too bright" but many countries have learnt a lot from the tactics developed by Israel over the years. 
> Lessons from a fool?
> I think not......


The only ones to have won a war against an indiginous force have been the british army.
They well and truly kicked the arabs, well there is a sweeping statement if ever I heard one.
Listen mate, israel, yes, a great warrior nation but so what, they still murder innocent children and are nothing to be proud of.

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## MadPict

Israel took on Egypt, Syria and Jordan and after six days Israeli troops were less than 100 km from Cairo and less than 50 km from Damascus and Amman.
Bearing in mind that the Arab countries also had the support of the likes of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Sudan and Kuwait I think they left the Arab world with a bad taste in their collective mouths for many, many years. 
Sweeping statement? Maybe. But true......

And I am going to say this for the last time - INNOCENT MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN ARE DYING ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER. 
But many people in this forum seem to think that anything the Israelis get they deserve.
Guess you should ask an Israeli how they feel....

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## pultneytooner

> Guess you should ask an Israeli how they feel....


Fair comment if you also see how it is on the other side.

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## fred

> But Hezbollah threw the first 'punch'.....


Did they?

What do you call the first punch?

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## pultneytooner

> Israel took on Egypt, Syria and Jordan and after six days Israeli troops were less than 100 km from Cairo and less than 50 km from Damascus and Amman.
> Bearing in mind that the Arab countries also had the support of the likes of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Sudan and Kuwait I think they left the Arab world with a bad taste in their collective mouths for many, many years. 
> Sweeping statement? Maybe. But true......
> 
> And I am going to say this for the last time - INNOCENT MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN ARE DYING ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER. 
> But many people in this forum seem to think that anything the Israelis get they deserve.
> Guess you should ask an Israeli how they feel....


 You stated before that if hezbollah or hamas came out in the open then israel would wipe them out, I ask you then why would they, israel is by far and above a more powerful nation than most arab countries so maybe the only option is to fight the way they have been fighting.

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## MadPict

Had enough of this thread - bye......

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## JAWS

For background information of the causes of the problems in Lebanon the following site gives fairly brief but factual information about Lebanon. 

The people of Lebanon, a mixture of 30% Christians, mainly Arab Maronites,  and 70% Muslim, mainly Sunni and Shia, who have managed to co-exist in almost total peace for countless centuries and even managed to avoid getting entangled in the various Arab/Israeli conflicts. 

All that changed in 1970 after the Palestinians, having created a State within a State in Jordan made a violent attempt to overthrow the Jordanian Government in an attempt to take control of the Country and, having failed, were forcibly evicted from Jordan.. 
They then moved mainly into Southern Lebanon near the border with Israel. 

The aftermath of the Palestinians moving into Lebanon is explained  in the site below in the Sections after the Heading,  Lebanon, Israel, and the Palestinians which gives a very good account of the facts with no attempts to place blame. 
Its fairly brief and only takes a few moments to read. 

I should help give those who are unaware of the background to the current happenings some insight as to its causes. 
Please give the site at least a glance and after that what conclusions, if any, you come to I will leave to yourselves. 
For that reason I have made no comment on what information is contained there. 

http://columbia.thefreedictionary.com/Lebanon

Just fot your info, I found the site by Googling "Lebanon Maronite". It's only one version so feel free to check further should anybody wish.

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## canuck

> INNOCENT MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN ARE DYING ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER.


Madpict, I understand why you feel you must leave.  But your words need to be repeated and repeated and I shall do that here.

_Innocent men, women and children are dying on both sides of the borders_.

(Red was chosen not for emphasis, but rather to make the point that the blood that is spilled runs with the same colour no matter who sheds it.)

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## Kaishowing

> ....many people in this forum seem to think that anything the Israelis get they deserve.


I don't think any country or it's citizens deserve to be bombed, by plane or semtex webbing...but when a nation the size and technical superiority of Israel engage in a conflict like this, it's very hard not to see them as the aggressor, even when suicide bombers wreak their havoc.

Maybe Hezbollah _did_ escalate the current situation (actually there's no 'maybe' about it), but I don't think many would call the mobalization of such a huge percentage of the Israeli army a 'measured response'.
For generations they've enjoyed the backing of a super-power, and feel themselves to be morally right about their attitude in the region, and as they've always has the USA standing behind them flexing their muscles, nobody else has really said anything giving them unspoken carte-blanché when defending themselves.
Trouble is that up on the moral high-ground (where the Israeli government planted themselves decades ago), you have to be seen globally to be whiter than white (and unfortunately Israel is far from that), and so massing a huge armed force to destroy the relatively tiny Hezbollah armed wing looks bloodthirsty and punative.

I hope that the current situation just fizzles-out into nothing, but with missiles being lobbed indisciminately back and forth into civilian areas there's no chance of either backing down.

I just hope our friends are okay. We've lost touch with the one in Lebanon, but with the situation as it si there, we don't expect to hear word one way or the other until all this is over.

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## fred

> All that changed in 1970 after the Palestinians, having created a State within a State in Jordan made a violent attempt to overthrow the Jordanian Government in an attempt to take control of the Country and, having failed, were forcibly evicted from Jordan..


But what were a load of Palestinians doing in Jordan in the first place?

Around 700,000 were there because they were evicted from their homes and country to make way for the state of Israel in 1948 and another 300,000 were evicted from their home and country when Israel occupied the West Bank in 67.

Under international law a refugee has the right to return to his homeland when the fighting is over, a right which has been denied by the Israeli government.

This is what the fighting is all about, there are now around 4 million people living in the most squalid conditions denied all rights, denied the right to work, denied the right to own property, denied the right of free movement, denied the right of citizenship.

These people are there because they or their ancestors were moved out to make way for Israel, a country whos population enjoy a large per-capita income, larger than Italy or Spain, larger than some American states. They also enjoy the largest share of American foreign aid of any country in the world as a reward for 60 years of ignoring international laws.

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## JAWS

> But what were a load of Palestinians doing in Jordan in the first place?
> 
> Around 700,000 were there because they were evicted from their homes and country to make way for the state of Israel in 1948 and another 300,000 were evicted from their home and country when Israel occupied the West Bank in 67.
> 
> Under international law a refugee has the right to return to his homeland when the fighting is over, a right which has been denied by the Israeli government.
> 
> This is what the fighting is all about, there are now around 4 million people living in the most squalid conditions denied all rights, denied the right to work, denied the right to own property, denied the right of free movement, denied the right of citizenship.
> 
> These people are there because they or their ancestors were moved out to make way for Israel, a country whos population enjoy a large per-capita income, larger than Italy or Spain, larger than some American states. They also enjoy the largest share of American foreign aid of any country in the world as a reward for 60 years of ignoring international laws.


Does any of that explain why they decided to try to overthrow the Jordanian Government by an armed uprising? And why did Israel take control of the West Bank in 1967? There must be a reason why they suddenly did that after 20 years, Who was in control of the West Bank proir to 1967?

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## fred

> Does any of that explain why they decided to try to overthrow the Jordanian Government by an armed uprising? And why did Israel take control of the West Bank in 1967? There must be a reason why they suddenly did that after 20 years, Who was in control of the West Bank proir to 1967?


Well once upon a time there was no Hamas, no Hezbollah, no PLO and Arabs and Jews lived side by side peacefully in Palestine.

Then came the Zionists with their terrorist organisations like the Stern Gang and it all followed on from there.

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## scotsboy

I totaly agree Fred, Zionism is the problem.

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## JAWS

> Well once upon a time there was no Hamas, no Hezbollah, no PLO and Arabs and Jews lived side by side peacefully in Palestine.
> 
> Then came the Zionists with their terrorist organisations like the Stern Gang and it all followed on from there.


The Stern Gang, they were Freedom Fighters trying to expel the Imperialist British from the area. Wasn't that why they blew up the King David Hotel? 
I would have thought you would have been proud of such Anti-Imperialist heroes. 

The following is from the History Learning site. 

In May 1948, Israel became an independent state after Israel was recognised by the United Nations as a country in its own right within the Middle East. If relations in pre-war Palestine had been fraught with difficulties, these difficulties paled into insignificance after Israel became a state in its own right. Immediately on being granted its independence, Israel was attacked by a number of Arab nations. If Israel had faltered at this first hurdle, she would have ceased to exist as a state regardless of what the United Nations had decreed.

Israel was attacked on the same day it gained its independence  May 14th. The armies of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq attacked Israel. With such a combined force attacking Israel, few would have given the new country any chance of survival.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk...e_1948_war.htm

Check the site. The Israelis were no angels but to try to re-write History to invent the myth that they are to blame for everything just does not bear scrutiny

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## sjwahwah

And we are now aiding and abetting Israel in their slaughter of Lebanese civilians???? It seems Tony Blairco has no qualms over letting America fly in their shipment of 2 cargo planes filled with GBU 28 laser-guided bombs into Prestwick Airport over this past weekend. I am absolutely appalled but, not surprised. I suppose if we do nothing.. we support it. :Frown: 

photos from Lebanon...
http://stopdestroyinglebanon.com/War...log/?page_id=3

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## fred

> Israel was attacked on the same day it gained its independence  May 14th. The armies of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq attacked Israel. With such a combined force attacking Israel, few would have given the new country any chance of survival.
> 
> http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk...e_1948_war.htm
> 
> Check the site. The Israelis were no angels but to try to re-write History to invent the myth that they are to blame for everything just does not bear scrutiny


The site is a load of rubbish just like the history books that say Hezbollah attacked Israel this time will be a load of rubbish.




> "Before the end of the mandate and, therefore before any possible
> intervention by Arab states, the Jews, taking advantage of their
> superior military preparation and organization, had occupied...most of
> the Arab cities in Palestine before May 15, 1948. Tiberias was occupied
> on April 19, 1948, Haifa on April 22, Jaffa on April 28, the Arab
> quarters in the New City of Jerusalem on April 30, Beisan on May 8,
> Safad on May 10 and Acre on May 14, 1948...In contrast, the Palestine
> Arabs did not seize any of the territories reserved for the Jewish state
> under the partition resolution."
> ...





> "Menahem Begin, the Leader of the Irgun, tells how 'in Jerusalem, as
> elsewhere, we were the first to pass from the defensive to the
> offensive...Arabs began to flee in terror...Hagana was carrying out
> successful attacks on other fronts, while all the Jewish forces
> proceeded to advance through Haifa like a knife through butter'...The
> Israelis now allege that the Palestine war began with the entry of the
> Arab armies into Palestine after 15 May 1948. But that was the second
> phase of the war; they overlook the massacres, expulsions and
> dispossessions which took place prior to that date and which
> ...





> "For the entire day of April 9, 1948, Irgun and LEHI soldiers carried
> out the slaughter in a cold and premeditated fashion...The attackers
> 'lined men, women and children up against the walls and shot
> them,'...The ruthlessness of the attack on Deir Yassin shocked Jewish
> and world opinion alike, drove fear and panic into the Arab population,
> and led to the flight of unarmed civilians from their homes all over the
> country." 
> 
> Simha Flapan, "The Birth of Israel."


BTW I just did a search for "USS Liberty" on your History Learning Site and it come up "No pages found".

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## Yvonne

It is not entirely improbable that the wicked Zionists were behind the World Wars.There is a DVD available in America about the control the Zionists had over Hitler. I now refer to Israel by its proper name: PALESTINE. Israel is an illegal state!

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## Dreadnought

> The site is a load of rubbish just like the history books that say Hezbollah attacked Israel this time will be a load of rubbish.
> 
> BTW I just did a search for "USS Liberty" on your History Learning Site and it come up "No pages found".


 
http://www.ussliberty.org/

What I find incredible is one of the main reasons used as an excuse for the invasion of Iraq (*O*peration *I*raqi *L*iberation) was Iraq's repeated dismissal of UN Resolutions. Here is a list of UN Resolutions ignored by Israel:

Resolution 106: "... 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid" 
Resolution 111: "...'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people" 
Resolution 127: "...'recommends' Israel suspend its 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem" 
Resolution 162: "...'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions" 
Resolution 171: "...determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria" 
Resolution 228: "...'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control" 
Resolution 237: "...'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees" 
Resolution 242: "..."affirms" need for Israel to withdraw from illegally occupied territory 
Resolution 248: "... 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan" 
Resolution 250: "... 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem" 
Resolution 251: "... 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250" 
Resolution 252: "...'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital" 
Resolution 256: "... 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation"" 
Resolution 259: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation" 
Resolution 262: "...'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport" 
Resolution 265: "... 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan" 
Resolution 267: "...'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem" 
Resolution 270: "...'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon" 
Resolution 271: "...'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem" 
Resolution 279: "...'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon" 
Resolution 280: "....'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon" 
Resolution 285: "...'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon" 
Resolution 298: "...'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem" 
Resolution 313: "...'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon" 
Resolution 316: "...'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon" 
Resolution 317: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon" 
Resolution 332: "...'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon" 
Resolution 337: "...'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty" 
Resolution 347: "...'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon" 
Resolution 425: "...'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon" 
Resolution 427: "...'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon' 
Resolution 444: "...'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces" 
Resolution 446: "...'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention" 
Resolution 450: "...'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon" 
Resolution 452: "...'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories" 
Resolution 465: "...'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program" 
Resolution 467: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon" 
Resolution 468: "...'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return" 
Resolution 469: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians" 
Resolution 471: "... 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention" 
Resolution 476: "... 'reiterates' that Israel's claims to Jerusalem are 'null and void'" 
Resolution 478: "...'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'" 
Resolution 484: "...'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors" 
Resolution 487: "...'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility" 
Resolution 497: "...'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescind its decision forthwith" 
Resolution 498: "...'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon" 
Resolution 501: "...'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops" 
Resolution 509: "...'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon" 
Resolution 515: "...'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in" 
Resolution 517: "...'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon" 
Resolution 518: "...'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon" 
Resolution 520: "...'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut" 
Resolution 573: "...'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters 
Resolution 587: "...'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw" 
Resolution 592: "...'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops" 
Resolution 605: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians 
Resolution 607: "...'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention 
Resolution 608: "...'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians" 
Resolution 636: "...'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians 
Resolution 641: "...'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians 
Resolution 672: "...'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount 
Resolution 673: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations 
Resolution 681: "...'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians 
Resolution 694: "...'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return 
Resolution 726: "...'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians 
Resolution 799: "...'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.


Whether right or wrong is imaterial. It is the gross hypocrisy of the US and British governments which stinks, more accurately it is the gross hypocrisy of G W Bush and Tony Lewinsky, sorry I mean Monica Blair...

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## fred

> What I find incredible is one of the main reasons used as an excuse for the invasion of Iraq (*O*peration *I*raqi *L*iberation) was Iraq's repeated dismissal of UN Resolutions. Here is a list of UN Resolutions ignored by Israel:


So that's why they just wiped a UN observation posts off the map, they did the same thing in 96 as well.

Imagine the headlines if Hezbollah had done that.

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## sjwahwah

well... mad mahmoud in Iran & Syria, Tajikistan (I was surprised at that one) & China are gettin' fired up and when the fit hits the shan bushblairco will have had exactly what they wanted.... and we will all have the blood on our hands as far as I'm concerned! Quite frankly.. I think the people in this country should be up in arms about not Britain.. but, Scotland aiding and abetting Amerika and their trafficking of WMDS to Israel and ashamed of being armchair protestors & criticisers and citizens of a supposedly civilised nation where people are more interested in so called reality tv programs & football than children being slaughtered by weapons we are allowing our government to traffick through this country!

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## Dreadnought

> Quite frankly.. I think the people in this country should be up in arms about not Britain.. but, Scotland aiding and abetting Amerika ...


Funnything, but I thought Scotland was an integral part of Britain...  ::

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## sjwahwah

They were flying in weapons in through our backyard. Where was it on the Scottish news tonite?

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## Gleber2

> Funnything, but I thought Scotland was an integral part of Britain...


As the result of a CONSPIRACY, we were joined to England in 1703(or7).Never been an integral part.

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## Dreadnought

> As the result of a CONSPIRACY...


Should I get my tinfoil hat?  :Wink:

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## Gleber2

> Should I get my tinfoil hat?


Wait until Tony and George fall out and we will get American arms to re-enact Flodden Field and beat you this time. ::

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## Dreadnought

> Wait until Tony and George fall out and we will get American arms to re-enact Flodden Field and beat you this time.


Take a look at the surnames of the leaders of the three main British political parties. Who exactly do you plan on beating? Yourselves?  ::   ::

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## Gleber2

> Take a look at the surnames of the leaders of the three main British political parties. Who exactly do you plan on beating? Yourselves?


It's all part of the conspiracy. When the chips are down the three in question will change sides and move to Montenegro where they will live a  a life of gentle tranquility tending a herd of wooly mammoths developed from Maggie Thatchers DNA.. 
We've been fighting ourselves for a long time.

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## Cedric Farthsbottom III

> Take a look at the surnames of the leaders of the three main British political parties. Who exactly do you plan on beating? Yourselves?


BLAIR,CAMERON and MCKENZIE.Ye can take oor lives but ye'll never take oor Irn Bru.......sorry!!!!......FREEDOM!!!!

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## sjwahwah

ming campbell...

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## Cedric Farthsbottom III

> ming campbell...


So it was!!!Thought it had somethin' to do wi' Flash Gordon,Cheers sjwahwah!!! ::   ::

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## fred

> I totaly agree Fred, Zionism is the problem.


Was the problem, I think the present situation in Lebanon might have more to do with the Baku Ceyhan pipeline than Zionism.

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