# General > Music >  Rehearsal Space Revisited

## clash67

I have become more and more aware that there is a lot of bands in Thurso that have found themselves without a rehearsal space since the sad demise of the Viewfirth, moves are afoot to try and secure the land at the Viewfirth to build an arts complex or similiar where there would be rehearsal space available..however that seems to be a long term plan all be it a very good one and is not yet confirmed. meanwhile there is a great need for a solution to the problem facing bands in the here and now. I have racked my brains and called numerous organisations such as local schools ,college, hotels etc. but it was not possible to secure any suitable premises, so I got to thinking that perhaps some big firm would donate a suitably sized porta cabin by way of sponsorship ,they would get advertising which would go along with any news articles about their generous gift to the arts community of Caithness, also local bands could do a once a year fundraising concert towards the upkeep of the cabin perhaps, and all promotoinal material and radio broadcasts for the concert would be credited to the company as the sponsor.
The council could be asked to donate a suitable plot for the cabin although they don't seem to be very interested in the plight of young rock groups but this would give them a chance to score some much needed brownie points.
Does anyone have any views on this, does this sound like it might work or does it sound too unlikely to ever happen?

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## K dragon

man not even thurso high would let you use the hall after school hours.

what about the red wood after hours on weekdays when no gigs are on at night, it shuts at four or summat during the week.

isla seems like a reasonable landlady/ pub owner.

the whole cabin thing might work but placement would be trouble. the council dont give a dman about much these days so i shouldnt think they would care about bands. i sense a "oh but the cabin would look unsuitable to any enviroment we place it locally" probably wouldnt even let you throw it in a field in the middle of nowhere.

but practises are hard now a days.

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## clash67

> man not even thurso high would let you use the hall after school hours.
> 
> what about the red wood after hours on weekdays when no gigs are on at night, it shuts at four or summat during the week.
> 
> isla seems like a reasonable landlady/ pub owner.
> 
> the whole cabin thing might work but placement would be trouble. the council dont give a dman about much these days so i shouldnt think they would care about bands. i sense a "oh but the cabin would look unsuitable to any enviroment we place it locally" probably wouldnt even let you throw it in a field in the middle of nowhere.
> 
> but practises are hard now a days.


Rehearsals imho should never feel like a major chore, the thought of loading a PA into a van unloading it at the rehearsal room, setting the PA up sound check,rehearse for ..say 3 hours , dismantle the PA load it into a van, unload it at the other end twice a week and then do it all over again at the weekend for gigs sounds too much work really, the only solution is to have a place that is set up and ready to go so that the musician can remain fresh and focused soley on the rehearsal and not destracted by the labourious tasks involved, it would need to be a place that the eqiupment can be safe and restricted from public use so to speak.

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## K dragon

i meant simple practises, like simple amps guitars a mic and a drumkit.

not al bands especially young ones own a pa

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## clash67

> i meant simple practises, like simple amps guitars a mic and a drumkit.
> 
> not al bands especially young ones own a pa


good point Kdragon, I would be willing to donate the use of some gear and lottery funding could be sought, all proceeds from the Howlin'Gaels album is to be put to such a community project so depending on album sales we could hopefuly be able to donate a good quality PA.

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## K dragon

i will be buying it then. to contribute

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## clash67

> i will be buying it then. to contribute


Good Man. :Wink:

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## K dragon

just doin what i can

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## Jeid

Have you tried the youth club?

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## K dragon

very strict on letting older folks come in. new laws and what not.

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## Jeid

Really? Since when? I asked not so long ago and was told it'd be fine.

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## K dragon

your kiddin?

last time a few guys suggested it they were on about proof of criminal records and what not.

i will admit they have an early intrest in music but it seems to falter after a while. and you'd be practising with a bunch of kids runnin about. 

but if its the only place then i guess you gotta put up with that.

but if they say it was fine then i guess it is. i just thought from what i heard that they were coming down on that stuff.
 my apologies.

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## The Pepsi Challenge

In the late 80s and early 90s, all that was available to me and my pals - in terms of finding a room to play music in, nevermind a working, well-equipped studio rehearsal space - were the (quite possibly illegal) rooms in the late, great Scapa House Hotel, and the local community education centre, within Miller Academy. Scapa's rooms were like playing inside a swimming pool within the Overlook Hotel, and getting a booking - plus working equipment - at the community education centre was about as easy as getting backstage at a Britney Spears concert. It was all we could get, and both soon became unavailable for a whole host of ridiculous reasons. Anyway, we had to take it upon ourselves to find a suitable rehearsal room. So, first stop: the local council. In the early 90s, there was about two dozen bands in Thurso. That meant an average of 100 people looking out for a room to play in... these people were all in a similar boat - the lucky ones were people who had outhouses in the country or expensive, private garages - and would have paid good money to secure somewhere. Surely, then, the council could hire out a garage, or, one of the many unused, often abandoned buildings they owned. Heaven knows they needed any additional revenue. No! Non! Nein! Neit! Nothing, they said was available; and, in the words of one council official (in charge of leisure no less, or some other ridiculously made-up title), "being let out to young bands who'd only destroy the place." Ah well... as it turned out no-one else who owned a garage, building, shack etc., in town, wanted to hire out their property to rebellious youth, either. Got a guitar? Want to play music? Not here, pal. 

I'd continue the story, but I don't need to. The point has already been made by Clash67. There's a lot of young bands in Thurso - and Caithness - just now. They're trying to be creative, musical, and doing something constructive. They need a permanent rehearsal venue where they can explore their talents. Far as I can see, 12 years on since I lived in Thurso, things haven't progressed much... And more's the pity.

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## Jeid

> your kiddin?
> 
> last time a few guys suggested it they were on about proof of criminal records and what not.
> 
> i will admit they have an early intrest in music but it seems to falter after a while. and you'd be practising with a bunch of kids runnin about. 
> 
> but if its the only place then i guess you gotta put up with that.
> 
> but if they say it was fine then i guess it is. i just thought from what i heard that they were coming down on that stuff.
>  my apologies.


I meant when the place wasn't open with kids running around.

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## clash67

seems the only time the council has ever contacted me with relivence to music is when they want my band to play for free! but pretty soon there won't be a band left in Caithness unless they start making some facilities available, things are tough enough being a musician in Caithness without us all having to run around like headless chickens trying to find rehearsal rooms! I will take it apon myself to see if I can shake the council up a bit and see if they will help in some way..don't hold your breath though.

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## K dragon

sorry for the ignorance on my part jeid. should think before i type lol


and thanks for making the effort clash 67 will help in anyway i can, me being a young musician i appreciate your enthusiasim and drive.

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## Deemac

Clash 67,
Just a few issues I'm sure will need ironed out. (Sorry my pesimistic head just can't help thinking about such detail - sad I know . . . . .)

For the portacabin concept:

Electricity - how/who pays for it (a meter possibly?) Generator??

Insurance - essential - how/who pays for it?

Who will manage/own/run this facility? Who will stop conflicts for practice times bookings etc?

Safety - fire extinguishers, first aid, exits all that bla

Toilets/drainage - muso's are known for a can or two at a practice . . .

The Council will be on all these details (and more) very quickly.

I used to rent an old cottage out in the sticks (most of Caithness), no neighbours to complain about noise etc. It did get broken into once though and some mics were stolen, so security wouild be a BIG concern, especially if you intend to leave a house PA/equipment inside.

I hope your idea succeeds, but it will take a lot of organising and effort to work/manage. Didn't Dennis Manson once have a small facility down at the harbour? He might be worth speaking to.

Just my pennies worth.

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## clash67

Yes all good points of course Deemac, but I would prefer to find out if a company would be prepared to make a donation of a cabin before I spend the next six months of my life preparing a detailed plan fit to bring to the council which will be hastily filed under NOT IMPORTANT ::  lol

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## Cedric Farthsbottom III

> I have become more and more aware that there is a lot of bands in Thurso that have found themselves without a rehearsal space since the sad demise of the Viewfirth, moves are afoot to try and secure the land at the Viewfirth to build an arts complex or similiar where there would be rehearsal space available..however that seems to be a long term plan all be it a very good one and is not yet confirmed. meanwhile there is a great need for a solution to the problem facing bands in the here and now. I have racked my brains and called numerous organisations such as local schools ,college, hotels etc. but it was not possible to secure any suitable premises, so I got to thinking that perhaps some big firm would donate a suitably sized porta cabin by way of sponsorship ,they would get advertising which would go along with any news articles about their generous gift to the arts community of Caithness, also local bands could do a once a year fundraising concert towards the upkeep of the cabin perhaps, and all promotoinal material and radio broadcasts for the concert would be credited to the company as the sponsor.
> The council could be asked to donate a suitable plot for the cabin although they don't seem to be very interested in the plight of young rock groups but this would give them a chance to score some much needed brownie points.
> Does anyone have any views on this, does this sound like it might work or does it sound too unlikely to ever happen?


A rehearsal space....wits that.A guy Larry Mullen once put a wee note on a school noticeboard,if anyone can play an instrument come to ma hoose.Folk came,the outcome was U2.The best band .....Ever.Look through the years
Beatles ......50%  dead.....Rolling Stones.....no good tunes in the last 20 out of 40.So for all ye guys oot there who enjoy their music go for it.Cos ye might be the next Big Thing.

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## K dragon

thats the whole point of this thread dude.......we need a place to go "oot an do eet"

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## Jeid

Clash... what you worried about... you've got a place to practise.

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## clash67

> Clash... what you worried about... you've got a place to practise.


yes your right of course Jeid but i am more concerned with the fact that nothing is being done to help the music community and although I am sorted for a rehearsal space what about everyone else?
 The Gaels are doing our best to try and ensure that once we have layed up our instruments for the last time there will still be a music scene in Caithness. who knows what talent is still to emerge from Caithness but with the sheer lack of interest from the council and the lack of facilities and funding we may see less and less musicians willing to take on the heavy burden that comes with playing in a serious touring band. 
some years ago I went proffesional and decided to take advantage of a subsidy that was being offered by HIDB (now known as CASE)to self employed people, I was told that this was not offered to musicians as if there was some difference between being self employed as say a plummer and being self employed as a musician! The reason was that the local powers that be did not consider music as being something that could be considered as a bonified career even though the music industry in Scotland alone contibutes a huge amount of money to the economy and creates thousands of jobs.This is recognised by everywhere else in Britian except Caithness! we have to somehow change this way of thinking by local councils and fund holders.
I have spent a great deal of my life sat in offices trying to convince some old fart that music is a very important part of our community only for my words to fall on deaf ears. 
When I first started the band back in "85" we had no PA no decent amplifiers no money and no transport but against all odds and through a LOT of hard work we eventualy got enough gear together to start touring on a shoe string budget, funding was not available or as usual there was funding available but was impossible to get, I aproached the council and went to CASE and tried all sorts of people to try and raise funds to update our gear which was virtualy hanging together but even though we were getting a lot of media coverage on a national level,even though we were raising lots of money for local charities and also attracting big crowds to local venues and there was a huge interest from major festivals the funding was somehow always wasted on some half baked idea like spending thousands of pounds on bringing some classical trios from god knows what country to play to the local snobs and yet the council could only afford to pay us £50 to play at there Gala Week! 
To say I was dishearted would be an understatement but we carried on regardless however some would have given up in frustraition and that is what I fear will happen to musicians in the future, there will be those who will be put of by the amount of hard work involved and the lack of help available and will eventualy give up and opt for a more "serious" career.
I love music I think I have proven that by my track record spanning over two decades and but I would hate to think that up and coming musicians will have to face the same hardships that I have had to face.

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## the_big_mac

Clash,

those who give up because the council/local snobs etc, wont recognise them as serious musicians dont deserve to keep the talent they were blessed with.

Your not the only band that has started out with cheap old gear..... i'd be surprised if anyone's very first band practice didn't consist of vocals through the mic jack in their stereo!

As time goes on and the band members grow up money becomes more and more available, and if they wish they can invest in newer and better gear. I would estimate that the 3 piece I am currently playing with has gear that, at RRP, is well worth over 10 grand.

I dont play to be recognised by anyone, I dont play to make the council listen to our pleas, and I dont play to inspire the generation before me, I play because I love it. Simple as.

I agree that a common place to practise would be a good idea, however its not like its not been tried in the past. The community centre in miller academy was always available when we wanted it in the 90's. The majority of my playing youth was spent in the youth club, putting on the occasional gig for the "kids" as a thank you. And more recently my boss has been kind enough to let us use his premises (prob the best ever venue to practise in too  ::  !)

I would challenge you that anyone who loves to play will never find a problem finding a place to practice. Why should it be up to other people to nurture their talent? And as for equipment to play on, they can earn that themselves.

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## The Pepsi Challenge

Quarterpounder - I think what Clash67 is trying to say is that there is a demand and a requirement for a rehearsal suite in Caithness. How it comes to being is another matter entirely. Granted, the best (and worst) of us started out playing their guitars through boom boxes, however young, aspiring musicians deserve to develop their talent with, at least, proper operative equipment. Not all of us have rich parents or live in houses that aren't attached to the next door neighbours'. Having a regular place to practice in takes a lot of pressure off of bands; and they'll most often find they get a lot more done without this worry hanging over their heads. 

Clash67 - get in touch with Mark at Shore Sounds Music. He is one of few to have opened a rehearsal room in the centre of Edinburgh and survive. Am sure he'd be willing to give you some hints and tips on how to persue your quest. I'll PM you his number.

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## zebedy

think all the bands around thurso should really get onto this music cabin thing..

i think it wud be good for local bands to have ....

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## The Pepsi Challenge

Post a thread, put up a poster, enter an ad into the paper - get yourselves into a quiet pub (St Clair?) and start talking about it. Don't let Thurso's musicians resemble an architects model.

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## K dragon

those who give up because the council/local snobs etc, wont recognise them as serious musicians dont deserve to keep the talent they were blessed with.


dude, your totally talking out your rear end.

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## the_big_mac

> those who give up because the council/local snobs etc, wont recognise them as serious musicians dont deserve to keep the talent they were blessed with.
> 
> 
> dude, your totally talking out your rear end.


So you saying that you would give up because the hierarchy of Caithness wont recognise your stuff?

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## the_big_mac

> Quarterpounder - I think what Clash67 is trying to say is that there is a demand and a requirement for a rehearsal suite in Caithness. How it comes to being is another matter entirely. Granted, the best (and worst) of us started out playing their guitars through boom boxes, however young, aspiring musicians deserve to develop their talent with, at least, proper operative equipment. Not all of us have rich parents or live in houses that aren't attached to the next door neighbours'. Having a regular place to practice in takes a lot of pressure off of bands; and they'll most often find they get a lot more done without this worry hanging over their heads. 
> 
> Clash67 - get in touch with Mark at Shore Sounds Music. He is one of few to have opened a rehearsal room in the centre of Edinburgh and survive. Am sure he'd be willing to give you some hints and tips on how to persue your quest. I'll PM you his number.


Look, i agree that its a good idea, but im also with deemac on this one to a point.  In this day and age it almost seems impossible to set such a thing up without a pile of red tape and money.

A good, maybe even great, idea is what this will stay due a number of reasons.  One major one is the abuse of such a service.  I once let my wee brothers band use my kit when his band were starting out.  That resulted in £££ of damage to my kit an cymbals.  Not purley down to my brother, but the abuse trust that i had lent that group.  They were young unsupervised teenagers.  Is it any different to the majority these days?

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## Cazaa

Wasn't there a concert at Thurso High School a few weeks ago? How many bands played there from the are despite "the fact that nothing is being done to help the music community"?

Did the organisers pay the school for the hire of instruments, Mixing Desk, Lights, Lighting desk, hall, rehearsal time, overtime? 

the_big_mac once let his/her wee brothers band use kit - can you imagine, then, the state the school's equipment must be in?

Did all of these other bands already mentioned have to rely on help from outside their band. Get it together and get practicing.

Incidently, I hear that there was an excellent concert by the THS pupils AGAIN last night. Did anybody from this 'group' go to it? I hear it had a larger audience than Thurso Live Music Association gigs.

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## K dragon

"So you saying that you would give up because the hierarchy of Caithness wont recognise your stuff?"


dude, thurso nor caithness havent recognised me in 6 years,

i have released two albums the third coming out next year, an nobody knows who i am or that i even do music in my little old music room.


to be honest i have had more enthusiasim from people in london thank i have up here.

i do music and films and im releasing THREE film projects next year for charity, probably soundtracked by myself, and i offered for people up here to 

A: get involved in some form with the projects
B: actors who are willing to have a laugh i couldnt care if they have no experience
C: asked local muscians young and old if they were interested

not one person has bothered.

and i still havent stopped.

 the "hierarchy" can lick the nether regions of bodily salt for all i care.

(that comment was barring killarifts, doc rock, and astronot)

but still isnt quite the enthusiaism i was looking for.

not slowing down and nor stopping

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## clash67

> Quarterpounder - I think what Clash67 is trying to say is that there is a demand and a requirement for a rehearsal suite in Caithness. How it comes to being is another matter entirely. Granted, the best (and worst) of us started out playing their guitars through boom boxes, however young, aspiring musicians deserve to develop their talent with, at least, proper operative equipment. Not all of us have rich parents or live in houses that aren't attached to the next door neighbours'. Having a regular place to practice in takes a lot of pressure off of bands; and they'll most often find they get a lot more done without this worry hanging over their heads. 
> 
> Clash67 - get in touch with Mark at Shore Sounds Music. He is one of few to have opened a rehearsal room in the centre of Edinburgh and survive. Am sure he'd be willing to give you some hints and tips on how to persue your quest. I'll PM you his number.


Thank You for the number Pepsi Challenge and yes that is exactly what I'm saying, I am not suggesting  Big Mac, that we are the only musicians to start of with shoddy gear, like pepsi challenge said there is enough pressures on musicians in Caithness especialy without worrying about rehearsal space, such facilities should be provided by the council because communities like ours rely heavily on tourism and where there is tourists you will find that there is a demand for live entertainment which helps them spend their money and in turn helps our local economy..basics really, and I totally agree with what pepsi said too, we don't all have rich parents or spacious detached houses, as for playing for the love of music ,well we all do it for that really but the more you love playing music then the better you want to be and getting good at music means not having to worry about things like rehearsal space or as I said earlier transporting gear setting up gear then having to take all the gear down and transport it again is too much work too keep it as a comfortable expierience but I have covered all that already. How can a group ever progress if the whole afair is a long tedious and tiring effort evey time you want to rehearse, fine if you are a pub band that only gets together now and again but if an act is to progress to go onto the bigger stage and a more proffesional circuit then decent facilities need to be in place not just for music but all the arts.
Just take a look at Orkney, The Picaqou Centre (spelling ?) a huge facility that caters to all the arts and having such a place means that big shows can also be put on attracting Caithness people over to the Islands, what do we get a not even a shed to rehearse in! caithness councillors can't see that Orkney is miles ahead of us and they nurture their home grown talent.

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## clash67

> Wasn't there a concert at Thurso High School a few weeks ago? How many bands played there from the are despite "the fact that nothing is being done to help the music community"?
> 
> Did the organisers pay the school for the hire of instruments, Mixing Desk, Lights, Lighting desk, hall, rehearsal time, overtime? 
> 
> the_big_mac once let his/her wee brothers band use kit - can you imagine, then, the state the school's equipment must be in?
> 
> Did all of these other bands already mentioned have to rely on help from outside their band. Get it together and get practicing.
> 
> Incidently, I hear that there was an excellent concert by the THS pupils AGAIN last night. Did anybody from this 'group' go to it? I hear it had a larger audience than Thurso Live Music Association gigs.


You just don't get it do you!..am I talking to someone who  has ever played a gig outside Caithness "get practising"! I will have you know that we practise twice a week and I consider us as playing to a high standered and focusing on touring Europe, we done our share of High school gigs and we also done it without the help of anyone, but what happens when one of these young bands want to take it to the next level?..they wouldn't get away with simply pleasing a small venue full of friends and family, when competing with  proffesional acts they will need outside help and as much as they can get believe me, having a rehearsal space would be the first and most basic reqiurement, maybe that is why we are stuck in the 1930's..honestly with the attatude of some people it is a wonder any musicians bother at all. if you think that a high school gig is a good illustration of how easy it should be for the rest of us then think again.

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## Jeid

I see both sides of the line. However, it's a learning curve that we all have to go through. I wouldn't appreciate what I have now if I was handed everything on a plate in the past.

It's as simple as this, if you wanna play in a band, you'll find a place to jam. I've had jams in my bedroom with four people. Ok, it wasn't ideal, but it was the first steps.

I don't think the problem actually lies with the youngsters finding space to practise... I actually think that people from their early 20's up are having the problems finding space.

That said... lots of excellent musical leaves the county every year... our young musicians. Off to the city for uni.

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## Jeid

> we also done it without the help of anyone


So if you did it with no help... what's stopping anyone else doing it?

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## clash67

> So if you did it with no help... what's stopping anyone else doing it?


I would rather the next generation of musicians didn't have to go through what i've been through, I don't want it handed to them on a plate either, i would like to think however that if we had a talented young musician,say the next David Gilmour or John Lennon in caithness that packed it all in because of the endless problems and obstacles in their way, do we say "oh well thats his tough luck if he really loved music he would have stuck with it" or do we stop to realise that it was our loss?
Plenty of seriously good musicians have only really began to make their mark after their departure from Caithness all I would like is for caithness to have the facilities to nurture these talented young musicians in there home county and yes, to be shown that we  appreciate there talent, or we could simply let them get fed up and give in then complain about the amount of youngsters that are hanging around the street corners?

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## Jeid

Perhaps there's already someone looking into sorting something out for the youth already. In fact, I'm pretty certain something is already in the pipeline.

It's true though, if you really love music, you'll do anything to continue playing it. Why question someone's passion?

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## clash67

> Perhaps there's already someone looking into sorting something out for the youth already. In fact, I'm pretty certain something is already in the pipeline.
> 
> It's true though, if you really love music, you'll do anything to continue playing it. Why question someone's passion?


If you really love music then yes you will continue to play, but if it is that much hassle why should a musician go to any bother to play in public? you can still play music only reserving it as a party piece but that is still not my point! what is it? do you not want to see Caithness keep up with the rest of the country?
Something is in the pipeline, there is a meeting in the Royal Hotel tomorrow night at seven o'clock, I have been invited to go along by Linda Hutton, the arts co-ordenator to discuss the possibility of getting the Viewfirth land to build an arts centre type building, I was all set to go and try and secure a better future for young up and coming musicians,to try and improve things so we could be sure that music from Caithness continues to adapt and improve ,however given the negitive feedback I have recieved through this thread I think that I will probably not bother and join the "I'm alright jack" crew.
I can't say that I'm totally suprised, i will just let you all get back to doing what ever it is that makes you all think that your musicians.
Caithness was once known for it's talent, I wonder what it will be known for in the future?

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## Jeid

Ahem, if you read a couple of posts up, I said "I see both sides of the line".

In reality, are you seriously willing to spend all your time making sure that this place runs smoothly, are you gonna be there to make sure the equipment is well looked after etc etc

Yeah, it's a great idea, but in reality, it's a difficult thing to setup.

Music should never feel like it's a hassle. I never think it's a hassle. I go out and set my gear up every week. It's part of being in a band. When you go to play a gig, everything isn't always laid on for you with a red carpet at the door.

I don't think Caithness is falling behind. In fact, I think that there are a lot of good bands in the area just now. Sure, we don't have the facilities that are available in the cities, but if they're failing to keep going down south, what makes you think it'll be any different up here?

Here's a question, since you've accused us all of just taking the easy option of "I'm alright Jack"... do you not think that learning the hard way has made you more determined and a better musician?

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## K dragon

clash not that my opinion matter but i just gotta say one thing....



go for it.

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## clash67

> Ahem, if you read a couple of posts up, I said "I see both sides of the line".
> 
> In reality, are you seriously willing to spend all your time making sure that this place runs smoothly, are you gonna be there to make sure the equipment is well looked after etc etc
> 
> Yeah, it's a great idea, but in reality, it's a difficult thing to setup.
> 
> Music should never feel like it's a hassle. I never think it's a hassle. I go out and set my gear up every week. It's part of being in a band. When you go to play a gig, everything isn't always laid on for you with a red carpet at the door.
> 
> I don't think Caithness is falling behind. In fact, I think that there are a lot of good bands in the area just now. Sure, we don't have the facilities that are available in the cities, but if they're failing to keep going down south, what makes you think it'll be any different up here?
> ...


Firstly I didn't say that Caithness is falling behind because there are no good bands in the area, I am saying that Caithness is falling behind because of the lack of encouragement there is for the good bands there are in the area, and secondly I was a determined musician from day one, which was somewhere back in the early 1980's but I see what you are trying to say.
if we are to get into the the whole learning the hard way making me a better musician then I can tell you that the only thing that made me a better musician was the fact that i was touring constantly from for 20 years or so and you either I got good or I stayed in Caithness and played the pubs for the rest of my life but once you get ataste of how good it could be then you don't want to go back to playing wee pubs that attracts punters soley for drink and the music is either an added bonus or a distraction from getting drunk and having a good scrap with the wimpiest guy in the room in the sad attempt to look hard, instead of performing at concerts all over the country and having a great audience turning up to hear good music and enjoy the atmosphere of a good live performance, the fact that things were made difficult by the lack of interest from the local fund holders and?or council did not deter me or my determination but it has held me back as a musician, I already said in an earlier post that funding was all too often made available for upperclass acts such as classical acts brought in from abroad at great cost I would imagine , yet the most basic of needs of local musicians were being neglected..is it a class thing ..who knows but that has always bugged me.
At the hight of the Howlin'Gaels fame we were apearing in national news papers and radio stations, we were invited to America to perform(which I did with session musicians due to the band having recording obligations back in Britain) so we were well on the way..not to being famous but to having opertunities to travel the world and still on a shoestring budget, yet when I aproached CASE (which was called HIDB at the time) with abusiness a plan which took me six months to compile for the funding required to update our gear their response..didn't even want to see the business plan as they didn't fund anything to do with music! Now what incentive does that give anyone who wanted to make a career out of music in Caithness..when they don't even get the same consideration as someone in any other career, I am afraid that attatude has never really changed and until it does we... ( and by we I mean musicians, not part time players that wants to pack it in cause they got a job that is more financialy secure or their girlfriend wants them to go to Skinandis every weekend instead of gigging) will be held back from competing with other musicians that are better catered for by people who understand the potential of the arts.

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## theboss

While I agree a dedicated rehearsal space would be a great addition to Caithness, the actual mechanics of running such an environment is incredibly challenging.

You're talking about obtaining funding for one rehearsal room, with a dedicated P.A and drum kit and possibly additional guitar, bass, keyboard amplifiers. 

While I lived in Glasgow I used many of their reheasal rooms (Berkeley, Urban Studios, Soundhaus... etc etc) These were all professionally set up and run, rehearsal/recording studios with ALOT of money invested in them. They were also fully staffed 12 hours a day and provided a high standard of equipment. Now you would think that these kind of places would be respected, a place to get away from the missus for a while to make a racket with your friends, unfortunately not everyone saw it that way. Every single week we went in we were faced with the same problems. The speaker cabinets had been abused to the point that they had just given in, pieces of the drum kit were missing (things like cymbal felts, clutches, bass drum pedals), the P.A was turned up to the max and was screaming etc etc... Now agreed that these were rooms that were being let out 12 hours a day 7 days a week, but even with a full staff on hand to keep an eye on it, the equipment was being abused and was costing alot of money to repair/replace.

My point is that while in theory, bands will go in to a dedicated rehearsal space, bring their own drum breakables, guitars, leads, fx etc, get a sound they're happy with from the P.A and spend a couple of hours a week becoming the next Howlin' Gaels, this is not how it works. Not everyone knows how to work a P.A! Do you have it fully staffed all the time? Who pays the wages? How do you stop damage to equipment? Who pays for damage to the equipment? Is there to be someone there to check the room everytime a band leave? I'm not calling everyone vandals, and i'm also not going to pinpoint one age-group/type of person that would do this, but all it takes is for one person to spoil it for everyone and no matter how hard you try, you can't watch the place all the time.

I know this all sounds very negative, but I do agree with what you're saying to a certain extent. The younger generation do require a facility, but i'm pretty certain the High School allow there music rooms to be used at lunchtimes for rehearsal. The bigger problem is when you leave the High School but surely by then, if you're REALLY into your music and keen to push yourself, you should have made contacts in Caithness who have rehearsal space. You should know, or be able to find out where the more established local bands rehearse and be bold enough to approach whoever it is with the facility, whether it be a garage, a shed or a dedicated studio. I know of at least two places you have used for rehearsal Clash and another one where you considered. Maybe you should approach these folk for an opinion on using their facilities to see what they think, or WHY they don't let EVERY Keith Moon or Donnie Williamson wannabe use their space.

I await the response...

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## Jeid

Clash...

From the first line of your post you say that Caithness ain't falling behind because there are good bands in the area, so would that not suggest that people have places to practise and are using them to good effect? I personally don't see what you're trying to say. We're either falling behind or we ain't. If there are good bands in the area... who seemingly all have a place to practise, then what's the problem? Secondly... I'm a determined musician... I've met some half assed musicians, but I'm pretty sure all the people I know who are playing in bands are very committed to what they are doing. Other people can be committed to the cause you know. From what you're saying, it seems that you're the only man within 100 miles of here that can put effort into something.

You seem to be blowing your own trumpet a lot on this thread. Music isn't a competition. I couldn't care less if you'd toured the world. Not everyone plays music with the goal of getting signed/touring Europe. I play music with people who are great fun to be around, we have a fantastic time, the crowd have a good time, we get to do something we enjoy and if someone wanted to sign us/book us for a tour... bonus. But really, I'm not playing music with the notion that for the next 25 years of my life... I'm gonna be a musician full time. 

If the council don't wanna support it, then that's up to them. I'm sure the money could be better spent on education and hospitals. If you wanna make it somewhere, find your own way of doing it.

And finally, music isn't the only thing in life. If I can make practise on a Tuesday night but my drummer can't because he has something else on... does that make him any less committed than me? I think not. You should have some respect for what other people want before slagging them off. If someone has a girlfriend(and you should understand since you're married) then that's obviously gonna have an impact on things.

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## clash67

> While I agree a dedicated rehearsal space would be a great addition to Caithness, the actual mechanics of running such an environment is incredibly challenging.
> 
> You're talking about obtaining funding for one rehearsal room, with a dedicated P.A and drum kit and possibly additional guitar, bass, keyboard amplifiers. 
> 
> While I lived in Glasgow I used many of their reheasal rooms (Berkeley, Urban Studios, Soundhaus... etc etc) These were all professionally set up and run, rehearsal/recording studios with ALOT of money invested in them. They were also fully staffed 12 hours a day and provided a high standard of equipment. Now you would think that these kind of places would be respected, a place to get away from the missus for a while to make a racket with your friends, unfortunately not everyone saw it that way. Every single week we went in we were faced with the same problems. The speaker cabinets had been abused to the point that they had just given in, pieces of the drum kit were missing (things like cymbal felts, clutches, bass drum pedals), the P.A was turned up to the max and was screaming etc etc... Now agreed that these were rooms that were being let out 12 hours a day 7 days a week, but even with a full staff on hand to keep an eye on it, the equipment was being abused and was costing alot of money to repair/replace.
> 
> My point is that while in theory, bands will go in to a dedicated rehearsal space, bring their own drum breakables, guitars, leads, fx etc, get a sound they're happy with from the P.A and spend a couple of hours a week becoming the next Howlin' Gaels, this is not how it works. Not everyone knows how to work a P.A! Do you have it fully staffed all the time? Who pays the wages? How do you stop damage to equipment? Who pays for damage to the equipment? Is there to be someone there to check the room everytime a band leave? I'm not calling everyone vandals, and i'm also not going to pinpoint one age-group/type of person that would do this, but all it takes is for one person to spoil it for everyone and no matter how hard you try, you can't watch the place all the time.
> 
> I know this all sounds very negative, but I do agree with what you're saying to a certain extent. The younger generation do require a facility, but i'm pretty certain the High School allow there music rooms to be used at lunchtimes for rehearsal. The bigger problem is when you leave the High School but surely by then, if you're REALLY into your music and keen to push yourself, you should have made contacts in Caithness who have rehearsal space. You should know, or be able to find out where the more established local bands rehearse and be bold enough to approach whoever it is with the facility, whether it be a garage, a shed or a dedicated studio. I know of at least two places you have used for rehearsal Clash and another one where you considered. Maybe you should approach these folk for an opinion on using their facilities to see what they think, or WHY they don't let EVERY Keith Moon or Donnie Williamson wannabe use their space.
> ...


All very valid points and of course your right in as much as gear being abused, I was the lecturer in charge of overseeing rehearsals in the north Highland College and it was qiute a task to try and keep the equipment from being abused or even going missing, one idea would be to have a responsible adult (parent / gardian) concerned with each group under 16 to sign a form at the start of each session accepting responsability for any loss or damage, another way around the problem is if each group used the facility for more than one night at a time and so they could use their own equipment and leave it set up for a number of rehearsals perhaps each band could have 3 nights at a time?
Whatever, I have been running around ragged chasing up possible candidates who have premises that are laying vacant,phoning around all over the place,sending letters etc and to be truthful I am beginning to lose interest in the whole thing, especially with some of the responses to this thread, I don't mind constructive critisism and indeed there has been a lot of valid points made on some of your posts but if the council couldn't care less, CASE certainly couldn't care less, most of the public won't care until they are out at the weekend and start complaining about the town being dead and the lack of decent live bands so why am I the only one really trying to help young musicians...very sorry but I am about to give up my 25year battle to try and get popular music in Caithness taken seriously by funders I am just going to shake my head and walk away. It is a pity but let me tell you about a phone call I made to a potential funder one day the call went as follows;
Me; "Hello I read your article in **** magizine and you were offering funding to musicians for various projects and was wondering if I could apply?"
Lady"certainly what is your project?"
Me " I have a blues/Rock group that are planning our tour for next year.."
Lady"Oh I'm sorry but we will only fund proper music, classical quartets etc.."
_CLICK (me hanging up in disgust!)
_Says it all really. Oh well I suppose I must have been playing nonsense music for the past 25 years.

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## moncur

Getting a place to practice after leaving school has sometimes been an absolute nightmare. The main reason why duress hasn't gigged in ages was because we couldn't get anywhere to practice regularly and relatively cheaply. We're now in a situation where we have a place available at weekends so we only have to set-up/dismantle equipment once every weekend. We practiced in the viewfirth for a couple of years and they were always good to us.

Schoolkids are pretty much sorted as they can practice in their lunchbreak at the school or use the youth club most nights of the week.

If you really are stuck ask around, you never know what may crop up, and im sure at least one person in each band has a garage (as was the case with me for many years). and usually if worst came to worst, any band of mine would have to setup in my garage to rattle out a few tunes. We still do jam in the garage on occassions nowadays

I say go for it. One more practice venue would help out a lot of people who don't have the handy contacts and resources needed for an easy practice.

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## theboysintheband

Theres no harm in askin' or tryin' to find some kind of fundin. Stick in there Clash. 

As for the whole not wantin' it handed on a plate rubbish?! why not? I'd have liked it that way. Sayin' not havin anywhere to practise drove people to becomin' better musicians mite be true??but u could just use the rehearsal space layed on by the council (fingers crossed) and become better that way?! Far less hassle i'd have thought?

If the problems to do with gear abuse and staff can be sorted...brilliant! Im all for it!

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## Cazaa

> You just don't get it do you!..am I talking to someone who  has ever played a gig outside Caithness "get practising"! I will have you know that we practise twice a week and I consider us as playing to a high standered and focusing on touring Europe, we done our share of High school gigs and we also done it without the help of anyone, but what happens when one of these young bands want to take it to the next level?..they wouldn't get away with simply pleasing a small venue full of friends and family, when competing with  proffesional acts they will need outside help and as much as they can get believe me, having a rehearsal space would be the first and most basic reqiurement, maybe that is why we are stuck in the 1930's..honestly with the attatude of some people it is a wonder any musicians bother at all. if you think that a high school gig is a good illustration of how easy it should be for the rest of us then think again.


I do "Get it". Being born and 'bried' in Thurso, studied music in Glasgow, then Amsterdam and now in Paris at IRCAM . . . I think I do know of the struggles of performing live music. I've performed 'gigs' in Prague, Berlin, Amsterdam, Paris and Canada. I also consider my music to be of a high standered (sic) . . ."we also done [sic] it without the help of anyone" Are you trying to kid me that Mr. Watson gave you no help in setting up the concerts in the first place? Why did he ever bother? (did you ever thank him?)
The reason I brought the other concerts to your attention was not for you to criticise but was to let you (the forum) in on the fact that there is a larger wealth of talent in Thurso than was implied at the beginning of this thread.

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## K dragon

i agree with clash. 

yes its a hard thing to accomplish but why is everyone pointing out the negatives and never the positives.


he needs support and backing. not "oh that wouldnt work" and "oh back in my day speeches"

the high school does not let you practice if you are a pupil anymore moncur (i thin it was you who siad it)

you can only practice during break and if its for a school basedband project. before talent shows you get short practices. since grant took over it seems like a bloody prison in there.

but back to my point, im a young musician and finding places to practise has ALWAYS been a problem for me..............now its just finding band members LMAO!

i think he needs more support, he isnt just talking about setting up a small practice, he is also talking about making the local council and people aware that there are a large amount of young people up here with amazing untapped creativity. music is slowly dying up here, if its not country and not covers of some sort, getting people to listen to your music is impossible.

to clarify:

getting people to turn up to your shows, especially young kids...thats easy,

getting those people to listen intently to your music without getting drunk and yappping at bar (adults...some kids too lol) or running around like a headless chicken and jumping into each other like fools (kids, im all for mosh pits but the redwood isnt appropriate)

but in short:

GIVE THE GUY A BREAK HE IS TRYING TO BETTER THE MUSIC COMMUNITY SO QUIT DOGGING THE GUY

yeesh, youd think form this thread that you all want to be the only bands in town.

and that thing with the getting the parents to sign a waver for damages that would work as a civil agreement you dont need legal documentation just as long as they sign a contract you write up that they agree to, stating that they will pay if their child becomes and idiot with the bass lol

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## clash67

> I do "Get it". Being born and 'bried' in Thurso, studied music in Glasgow, then Amsterdam and now in Paris at IRCAM . . . I think I do know of the struggles of performing live music. I've performed 'gigs' in Prague, Berlin, Amsterdam, Paris and Canada. I also consider my music to be of a high standered (sic) . . ."we also done [sic] it without the help of anyone" Are you trying to kid me that Mr. Watson gave you no help in setting up the concerts in the first place? Why did he ever bother? (did you ever thank him?)
> The reason I brought the other concerts to your attention was not for you to criticise but was to let you (the forum) in on the fact that there is a larger wealth of talent in Thurso than was implied at the beginning of this thread.


THANK MR.WATSON!! when I was in school I asked to get guitar lessons till I was blue in the face but I'm still waiting, i then asked for drumming lessons but yet again nothing! Anything I learned, I learned on the road. No I admit I was just a youngster when I played the High School gigs but I had left school by then and we organised ourselves it had nothing to do with Mr.Watson, and I don't know what post you are referring to but I at no time implied that there wasn't a large wealth of talent in Thurso, in fact just the opposite.
All I am trying to do is improve things for future generations of local musicians, I am not saying that it is impossible to make it as a musician without help I am saying that it would be better if it was easier for the next generation of players if they had better facilities, but what do you care you have apparently made your way into the music industry so have I, only difference is I am trying to improve things for our music community,what are you doing?
I can't see where all the negitiveness is coming from, you would think this thread was about banning music rather than trying to improve things.
One hour to go before I go to the meeting to try and secure the land at the Viewfirth for the arts but what will I say 2no need to build any arts centre 'cause I have been informed that Cazaa has managed to become a musician without any help" mmm.
Do you therefor suggest that we should leave things as they are and never bother trying to help young local musicians? I find your comments suprising, and you a musician to.tut tut

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## zebedy

> Getting a place to practice after leaving school has sometimes been an absolute nightmare. The main reason why duress hasn't gigged in ages was because we couldn't get anywhere to practice regularly and relatively cheaply. We're now in a situation where we have a place available at weekends so we only have to set-up/dismantle equipment once every weekend. We practiced in the viewfirth for a couple of years and they were always good to us.
> 
> Schoolkids are pretty much sorted as they can practice in their lunchbreak at the school or use the youth club most nights of the week.
> 
> If you really are stuck ask around, you never know what may crop up, and im sure at least one person in each band has a garage (as was the case with me for many years). and usually if worst came to worst, any band of mine would have to setup in my garage to rattle out a few tunes. We still do jam in the garage on occassions nowadays
> 
> I say go for it. One more practice venue would help out a lot of people who don't have the handy contacts and resources needed for an easy practice.



most of you dont know how hard it is to get the rooms at lunch

we do after school, being my jazz band sum nights in the week

only because everyone in the band are senoir pupils and also get on with our teachers, but the thing is with most ways our school runs these day( which may i really sucks but that isnt the music. its the uniform!!!!  )
but u have to have an adult with u?

so it aint easy having practice places

and even when you do get the chance u get about an hour maby 2 max

my band Code6 have a practice place were our equipment stays and were in a place were there are no houses for a good distance.

and we practice from 1pm til about 6pm maby 7pm if mummy's havnt phoned for u to be back for dinner haha

i really think we should push for a cabin. not every persons band practices with a PA.. yes it is preferred by most!

but they make do

whats the need to have staff and the equipment.

a cabin with plugs? a carpet. electricty?

isnt that all most need these days?

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## zebedy

> you can only practice during break and if its for a school basedband project. before talent shows you get short practices. since grant took over it seems like a bloody prison in there.


that K dragon is putting it a nice way!

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## K dragon

takes a bow



thank you thank you.

lol

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## Reev

Ah, the fight for somewhere to jam, well, Busy basically said where we stood on the matter (took ages but after a few run arounds, and getting the "manager" at the helm we got somewhere)

Still, i remember when i was in high school, it came down to who had the biggest garagem thatw as me, so all the gear was set up there, granted, it comes down to

1.) If someone has a relatively big garage

2.) If you arent the owner of the garage, you are allowed to use it

3.) The neighbours dont complain to much, or you simply play until 9pm at the latest

Yeah, at the age of 20+ a garage isnt ideal, but hey, it worked for me then

still, the lack of practiced venues is pretty dire, still, if ou look you shall find, took AGES to finally find the place we jam in now (hence the supreme lack of gigging)

Still, if people look hard enough and ask aroud they are bound to find sutin, its stil js the annoyance of luuging around so much gear that needs to be packed away and set up for every jam, but hey, beggars cant be choosers right

a room or building to be set up for people to jam in, yup, looked at doing this myself (ok when i say doing it, i mean i looked into costs and availability, and if practical) my initial cost values seemed to be (for a decent sized place) at least into the 5 figures, which straight away made me go, oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook, think ill pass on that idea

The whole fundraising to buold somewhere, yeah i see that, still, it wont be a quick fix, these things take time, and heck, you wouldnt see anything for a year - two, heck maybe more, still, no harm in looking into it, i did, js looked a bit to expensive for my tastes

 ::

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## Cazaa

> the high school does not let you practice if you are a pupil anymore moncur (i thin it was you who siad it)
> 
> you can only practice during break and if its for a school basedband project. before talent shows you get short practices. since grant took over it seems like a bloody prison in there.


Seems to me that you have quite a strong afiliation with the school there , K dragon (although speaking about your boss like that might not go down too well). I'm assuming you must work there, then, and therefore you might be able to have an influence on supervising during rehearsals in the hall or music department (are they still in the huts?). 

Presumably there must be some booking procedure in place that you have tried. I mean, if the football and basketball clubs that run (at least they used to "in my day . . lol") can do it then why can't you?

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## K dragon

i dont work there numb nuts, i never implied i did.

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## K dragon

this is from my guitarist in eton, he just couldnt not have a say in this discussion.



"Hello people of the Caithness music world. While you only know of me through my friend's L2D Society, I have been watching this forum for sometime and seen how much damage the closure of the View Firth and Music shop has done to our local community, and I do agree that something must be done about venues, rehearsal spaces, equipment etc. Indeed, as you all know, it is something that K Dragon (mostly) and I have found most difficult to acquire, bar the fact that in such a prided music community there is a sufficient lack of musicians to even make a band for starters. Now, when I say things like that, IN NO WAY am I slagging off the caithness community, because in all honesty it is far better than some of the music scenes in England, but I am merely stating the obvious. The need to obtain a permanent, formal and maintained facility to be available to the community is indeed one of the more pressing issues at this time, but with the looks of things it seems that with the local council it is like drawing blood from stone. If anything, the most plausible way to obtain said facility is either a fund raising contribution by all and any who can in order to even at the least acquire equipment, otherwise the only other option is to seek external benefactors, which I don't have to tell is one of the hardest things to do if you need anything. The amount of paperwork, taxation and legislation that comes with this is alot, never mind the funds to even get equipment, alot more funds to get the facility, and the permissions for building/buying land, permissions to use the place in such a way (i.e. noise pollution), maintenance and bills and the ability to maintain profit to account for all these, then there is advertising and agreements for the use of equipment (i.e. if anything gets broken, then the facility is not held responsible to pay for it) and more... But, of course, this is if you go with an external (out of county) commercial benefactor. Before you start questioning my knowledge and why I am giving this message: A= I study economics so I know what I'm talking about and what you will partially have to face, and B= if you want this facility, then use the your music profits/reputation that you all possess (which you do, because performances are always of a high quality when I go to them) to gain the funds yourself and show that music is not just some throw away aspect of Caithness culture, or else find an outside benefactor interested in the music scene. Of course, you have to make sure you have a guaranteed clientel for this facility, or else all your efforts would have been in vain and you'll be back to square one and a damaged reputation.

I leave my message thus: go and do it, don't just argue about it on the internet and think it a nice idea. This sort of thing needs a collective support base, not just a one man crusade, so if you want it so much, then you wouldn't be argueing about the issue and its problems, but the issue and how to go about solving the problems so as when you present your case to the council, they will see that it is not some "spur of the moment" want, but a fully thought and organised plan. If they refuse, you try again, and again, and again if required. Admittedly as K Dragon pointed out, many people do give up because their talent is suppressed and they just don't bother, or get tired of fighting. But if you want it so much, and for the next generations to enoy the benefits of such a facility, then you don't give up. You  make a statement and you stand by it.

Now you can rip this apart and take comfort that I can't reply to this so your opinions and slagging will go unchallenged (well, not for long, I know people ¬.¬ lol!), but take into account what I have said, and maybe you may one day get this facility and show that the music scene is more than just entertainment: it is a defined part of the Caithness culture and one that can say you are proud to be of becasue of your achievements. Thanks for reading."

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## moncur

> Still, if people look hard enough and ask aroud they are bound to find sutin, its stil js the annoyance of luuging around so much gear that needs to be packed away and set up for every jam, but hey, beggars cant be choosers right


The annoyance of lugging round equipment???!!!!! WHAT!!!!! REEEV! When do u ever lug the equipment around? Was I ill that day you decided to pack all the gear away BEFORE sitting down to wipe the sweat off ur heid and have a ciggy???!!!! Im enraged! As will the drummer!

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## K dragon

i aint small tail an my lower region is definately up to scratch.

i apologise if i offended you, i wasnt aware you were female....allow me to make up for it...


i dont work there numb ovaries

the mouth has a voice eh?

if your gonna insult me do it in english.

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## K dragon

upon reading your post you seem................rather up yourself, and i get the hint that your a teacher of sorts

BURN WITCH!


listen lady, im just kiddin and thank you for grading my posts but i dont need it i get by just fine.


i was kidding its called humour, i have loose morals therefore i have a loose tounge and a very loose...........TAIL.

if you took numb nuts personally then sorry but you wound yourself up.

no harm or foul intended.

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## Cazaa

> i aint small tail an my lower region is definately up to scratch.
> 
> i dont work there numb ovaries
> 
> the mouth has a voice eh?
> 
> if your gonna insult me do it in english.


Hilarious, must've taken you a while to Google all of that. "The mouth has a voice" is just one interpretation.

Yeah, I kinda got the idea that you don't work there. You must be a pupil then? (maybe first year?)

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## K dragon

no i didnt google and where as i just had a laugh and you took it too seriuosly your now beginning to insult my intelligence, which is just rude and dishonourable.

im david j hobbs i left school 4 years ago to matters beyond my control, and im nineteen.

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## Cazaa

Numb ovaries - priceless!

I'm sorry if I insulted your intelligence - I can see you are a very, very clever boy indeed (men=nuts, womem=ovaries - splendid)

I'll stop making a fool of you, then. 

You're doing too good a job of it yourself.

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## K dragon

whatever honey bunny.

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## Jeid

Kiddies, stop bickering and keep it on topic. If you wanna argue, use PM's. This is a decent thread and you pair are both acting like bairns.

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## clash67

ok, thats me back from the meeting, and for anyone interested ..and cazaa I was sensational! lol 
I can tell you that plans are going ahead to secure the Viewfirth site(3 Acres...oh arr) for the building of a huge Arts centre, I have ensured that the powers that be, understood and recognised the needs of local musicians, I will compile a detailed plan to put forward at the next meeting, I will be adding such reqiurements as soundproof rehearsal rooms ( I still need to work out how many rooms are reqiured and how many would be financialy feasable) supervision of said rooms, eqiupment reqiurements and the capacity of a concert hall for live performances with parking to accomodate punters.
If anyone has anything they would like me to add to the proposal then now is the time to let rip (let me know).
I have also got plans to use my contacts to put on some explosive acts in what I am hoping will be a 1500+ capicity hall, so let the good times roll.
I wonder what all the na sayers will have to bleet about now?

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## Jeid

When a building is standing and the rooms are useable... then you can "bleet" about it. It's a bit early to be blowing your own trumpet yet.

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## K dragon

its a good start, glad it went well.

bairn eh?

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## Deemac

I just pray they get an architect who knows something about performance, acoustics, arts communication, atmosphere, vibe, easy load/unload access, lighting design, good bar location, green rooms!! . . . . . . etc, etc . . . 

Please use the model of Strathy hall as one of MANY fine examples - AND DO THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE!! Cheap, tacky and sounds like a swimming pool!! (A certain local, previous, motel could also be easily dragged into my main point here).

How many promising, built from scratch facilities have I had the disspleasure of performing in?? (Killed by the ignorant designer and a equally ill-qualified client).

The best facility in Caithness is in Lybster just now. Not that I'm saying its perfect by any means. (let me digress just a tad here - one rather subtle reason is because there's no local nightclub nearby that has a rather conveinent pre 12 o'clock entry curfew nearby, as Thurso currently posesses!! - the death of many a promising Thurso based function . . . if you get my logic?).

I detect I'm starting to ramble here. 

Anyway, Clash67, good on you for flying the muso's flag. Speak to the architect if you can and get something GREAT designed if you can. Thurso badly need's it.

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## clash67

> When a building is standing and the rooms are useable... then you can "bleet" about it. It's a bit early to be blowing your own trumpet yet.


Even if it never comes to fruishion at least I got of my backside and did SOMETHING, after all I ain't doiung this for me because by time the thing is approved and built I might not even be playing anymore I might be in a wheelchair by then for all I know, but if and when it does get built I hope you all enjoy using the place if even some of you know that you were absolutely no help whatsoever..and by the way I have went to considerable trouble to get this far and any *decent musician* would be able to see that at the end of the day musicians should always try to help and encourage progress of this sort, seeing beyond the needs of theirselves and trying to work together as a team, jied you should be pleased that there is at least an attempt by someone to try and improve the music community, but no you would rather be a pesimist I find that very disapointing.

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## Jeid

Hold your horses here. I've never said I wasn't for this. I'm being a bit cautious though. You just seem to thinking you're some sort of saviour here and we should be all very thankful to you. "Donnie save the local music scene"

Look mate, well done, have a pat on the back. But it's still VERY EARLY to be getting excited about something that might never take off. Any person with an ounce of sense, especially you who has had so many dealings with the council over the years, should be a bit pesimistic about this getting setup. It could easily crash and burn before it gets off the ground.

But, should the idea definately be approved and get funding etc etc, I agree with Deemac. Make sure the place has decent sized rooms for practise etc.

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## The Pepsi Challenge

> Even if it never comes to fruishion at least I got of my backside and did SOMETHING, after all I ain't doiung this for me because by time the thing is approved and built I might not even be playing anymore I might be in a wheelchair by then for all I know, but if and when it does get built I hope you all enjoy using the place if even some of you know that you were absolutely no help whatsoever..and by the way I have went to considerable trouble to get this far and any *decent musician* would be able to see that at the end of the day musicians should always try to help and encourage progress of this sort, seeing beyond the needs of theirselves and trying to work together as a team, jied you should be pleased that there is at least an attempt by someone to try and improve the music community, but no you would rather be a pesimist I find that very disapointing.


Listen, dinnae worry - I'll see to it that we have a statue of you erected outside this spankingly brand new pillar of the Arts. You know, Rocky style. Fight the power, as Chuck D might say.

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## clash67

So you think I'm doing this to be some sort of saviour, I don't think so, it's not like I won any battles, the council has nothing to do with the project, if it wasn't for Dounreay this land would end up being flats or something equaly ridicoulis, I have been at loggerheads with the council for years it's true but they still are doing nothing so at the end of the day they win.
I would just like more of a positive input rather than all the what if 's, and I know that there is no way that this is in the bag, your right a lot could happen, I agree, but after all the hassle a glimpse of hope like this I was hoping that everyone would be more enthusiastic_(spelling questionable, think I got it right.)
_I was kinda hoping that the news would help people come up with ideas for the new building, I'm trying not to think about the possibiliy that it doesn't
happen, I just feel deflated now.lol

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## K dragon

(sticks tire pump up clash's nose)

"PUMP PUMP PUMP PUMP PUMP PUMP"


inflate damn you, inflate!

lol

well done man, seriously. at least someone brought it up.

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## Jeid

> So you think I'm doing this to be some sort of saviour, I don't think so, it's not like I won any battles, the council has nothing to do with the project, if it wasn't for Dounreay this land would end up being flats or something equaly ridicoulis, I have been at loggerheads with the council for years it's true but they still are doing nothing so at the end of the day they win.
> I would just like more of a positive input rather than all the what if 's, and I know that there is no way that this is in the bag, your right a lot could happen, I agree, but after all the hassle a glimpse of hope like this I was hoping that everyone would be more enthusiastic_(spelling questionable, think I got it right.)
> _I was kinda hoping that the news would help people come up with ideas for the new building, I'm trying not to think about the possibiliy that it doesn't
> happen, I just feel deflated now.lol


In reality, it might not happen... it might... but I'd rather wait until it was in motion before cracking open a bottle of the finest bubbly... for now anyway.

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## Reev

> The annoyance of lugging round equipment???!!!!! WHAT!!!!! REEEV! When do u ever lug the equipment around? Was I ill that day you decided to pack all the gear away BEFORE sitting down to wipe the sweat off ur heid and have a ciggy???!!!! Im enraged! As will the drummer!


Um........haha, i was talking in the past sense, but hey, no need now, js for EVERYONE'S knowledge, any gear that me and the guys went to buy, Busy here went and bought it to (yknow, not to be outdone) so ALONE Busy has the annoyance of packing all the gear away............happy Busy, HAHAHA

oooooooook its an annoyance to have to watch people do hard work cause that makes me break out into a sweat, therefore i need a towel, and having to dry myself of with the towel is the annoyance, hew, got that one out

More onto the thread again, ooooooooook people are managing to take the disagreements to heart AGAIN, this never ceases to amaze me

Lets keep this simple, it migt happn it might not, all in all, does it affect us at this exact given point in time, well, ive got myself a place, so im happy, yes, a very selfish attitude to take, but for the amount of times i gig about (well, now its not much, BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO) im happy with what ive got, i looked into it before, but like i said FAR TO MUCH MONEY, for one person that is, still, if you guys wanna go for it, GO FOR IT

YOu can sit here and debate about if it will or if it wont, thats fine, and for al the people who take all this stuff to heart (as im sure evryone knows this) sticks and stones kids, some people come here for good info, some people come for rants of nonsense (that would be me) and soe people come here to start a fight

All in all MOST entertaining, but its only words, STICK TO THE PLAN KIDDOS AND GET ME A KETTLE...............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ::

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## Spirit

I'm sorry i've got to say something.  I'm not a musician but I can see what Clash67 is trying to say and do and think an arts centre would be a benefit to  a larger group of the community than just musicians.  Most of you just want to sit back and watch to see if anything happens.  If it does you would be delighted to use any facility available however something like this needs input from others before the building starts to go up.  Clash67 is trying to do something to improve things for serious musicians who want to be able to spend time rehearsing in an appropriate environment and therefore giving a professional performance when they go to gigs.
I think Clash67 was trying to get some backing and ideas from musicians/artists/performers etc who might/would use a facility like the one he is trying to gain for the community.

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## Jeid

Seems like he's on a one man crusade to me.

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## moncur

Is there anyway someone can setup an online petition (like the asda one that went round)?

Might be a good way of pushing this forward to the powers that be.

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## moncur

> Um........haha, i was talking in the past sense, but hey, no need now, js for EVERYONE'S knowledge, any gear that me and the guys went to buy, Busy here went and bought it to (yknow, not to be outdone) so ALONE Busy has the annoyance of packing all the gear away............happy Busy, HAHAHA
> 
> oooooooook its an annoyance to have to watch people do hard work cause that makes me break out into a sweat, therefore i need a towel, and having to dry myself of with the towel is the annoyance, hew, got that one out


Reev,

b4 i joined the band there was no lugging around of equipment as it lived in riddels woodyard. I take my bass amp to practice as u left urs at pablos years ago and have yet to pick it up. We have to use the Empty Fortune PA as you are incapable of wiring the plug on your one! Plus, Im the poor soul who has to unload the car & trailer when i take the gear home.

Rant over (for now until Ben comes up with another feeble excuse)

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## Cazaa

Sorry to stick the old oar back in here, but hasn't the High School already been approached for input here? I only know of this through my contacts in the Scottish Arts Council.

I'm sure if you ACTUALLY spoke to the departments involved (Art, Music, Drama and Sports - yup this goes deeper than just music) you might get some feedback.

Don't be fobbed off now. Make sure that if they do use the School for an Arts Centre it is exactly what you want it to be. It would be a pity to have great rehearsal space without a suitable hall in which to perform.

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## clash67

> Seems like he's on a one man crusade to me.


I'm just getting a wee bit tired of your cheek Jied be carefull! if you think you can do better then go ahead if not stick to what you do best whatever that is or you can try being helpful rather than just sitting there bitchin'!
Now can I please get some ideas coming in so Jied can rip them to pieces aswell .
I need some idea as to how many bands are currently without a rehearsal space so we have an idea of how many rooms are going to be needed.
Deemac you are right the main concert hall would have to be built for good acoustics, but is there anything else we need to think about..a recording studio perhaps that can be rented out to an engineer.

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## clash67

your right cazaa the high school has plans to convert a gymnasiam or something to a community centre, it would be on a much smaller scale than the one planned for the Viewfirth area but their plans may affect the application put forward the Viewfirth, and a poll is a good idea, perhaps we could start apoll on how many musicians would use the place if we managed to get it? Could someone start a poll for me please while I start on some paper work for the next meeting, I think it is in just over a week.

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## Jeid

> I'm just getting a wee bit tired of your cheek Jied be carefull! if you think you can do better then go ahead if not stick to what you do best whatever that is or you can try being helpful rather than just sitting there bitchin'!
> Now can I please get some ideas coming in so Jied can rip them to pieces aswell .
> I need some idea as to how many bands are currently without a rehearsal space so we have an idea of how many rooms are going to be needed.
> Deemac you are right the main concert hall would have to be built for good acoustics, but is there anything else we need to think about..a recording studio perhaps that can be rented out to an engineer.


I'm not being cheeky. Be careful? Is that some sort of threat? I never said I could do better, I've never claimed I could and never claimed that I wanted to... that has to be the worst comeback I've ever seen. I've also not ripped any ideas to shreds, I have however said that I am a tad pessimistic about the whole idea and will remain to be so until the whole thing gets a go ahead. I'm not the one trying to be the saviour of the Caithness music scene, you are.

Who is this Jied you speak of anyway?

However, since you've finally asked for ideas. I think two or three rooms would be enough. Some bands don't practise every week and there's also no guarantee that the facilities will get used every day of the week. Maybe having three would be ideal but obviously doing market research on this would be important.

As for the hall, you should maybe ask around local music societies to see if they would be interested in using a large hall for music/plays/shows etc. and gather what sort of size you would need. 1500 could be excessive, but obviously researching would have to be done. Good acoustic proofing would be a good idea as Deemac has already pointed out, it lets a lot of places down.

There some input... stick that in your pipe  ::

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## clash67

> I'm not being cheeky. Be careful? Is that some sort of threat? I never said I could do better, I've never claimed I could and never claimed that I wanted to... that has to be the worst comeback I've ever seen. I've also not ripped any ideas to shreds, I have however said that I am a tad pessimistic about the whole idea and will remain to be so until the whole thing gets a go ahead. I'm not the one trying to be the saviour of the Caithness music scene, you are.
> 
> Who is this Jied you speak of anyway?
> 
> However, since you've finally asked for ideas. I think two or three rooms would be enough. Some bands don't practise every week and there's also no guarantee that the facilities will get used every day of the week. Maybe having three would be ideal but obviously doing market research on this would be important.
> 
> As for the hall, you should maybe ask around local music societies to see if they would be interested in using a large hall for music/plays/shows etc. and gather what sort of size you would need. 1500 could be excessive, but obviously researching would have to be done. Good acoustic proofing would be a good idea as Deemac has already pointed out, it lets a lot of places down.
> 
> There some input... stick that in your pipe


Ok "JEID" _(sorry I have a habit of getting my I's and E's the wrong way round)_
So 3 rooms sounds fine, of course if we could get away with asking for slightly more then I am sure they will get used but when all these community groups like the drama group etc. move out of their present set up then there will be a load of buildings that would be empty so  that would provide more facilities for potential rehearsal spaces.

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## K dragon

Kiddies, stop bickering and keep it on topic. If you wanna argue, use PM's. This is a decent thread and you pair are both acting like bairns.

contradiction is a swine is it not lol

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## Bobinovich

OK here's my input...

I am all for a good arts centre for Thurso and am glad that someone is willing to put the effort in to ensure that, should it go ahead, the local performers get a say in what's required.

The idea of a decent sized hall (1500 capacity would be superb - maybe with some sort of partitioning for smaller shows?) with multiple rehersal rooms (letting out in blocks of 2-3 nights would work well - allowing bands to get a good couple of practices before having to move gear) along with many of the other facilities listed in the more constructive posts, would make for a fine amenity for the town.

There are already numerous events currently held in Thurso High which could easily transfer to such a venue - the Player's pantomime being one which immediately springs to mind.  The main hall would have to have plenty of accessible storage so it can be converted from a standing venue to a comfortable seated venue fairly easily.

The hall & rooms would almost certainly have to be multi-use.  Many of the numerous coffee mornings, meetings, dances, etc. which were lost when the town hall closed could then be held in this venue.  While this idea may not go down well with some of the musicians on this site, a replacement for these lost facilites is required in Thurso and the Viewfirth site is perfect for them.  Making it multi-use, but with an Art's preference when it comes to booking, would help with the running costs.

I don't feel that an actual studio would be required unless it was run as a full-time professional business venture at going rates, but with discounts for local bands.  It's a lot of expense for all the latest equipment and would require it's own dedicated and knowledgable staff.  Locally we do have a few small studios and it wouldn't be fair to compete against them - but should work in conjunction with them.  If it was run professionally and advertised as a great retreat for bands to visit the north to record (along with some accommodation deals with a decent hotel) then we could attract some big names and maybe get a 'cheap' gig out of them once they're here!

Another thought...even with a 1500 capacity hall, would it be worthwhile also having the facilities to play open air gigs on the Viewfirth Green so that a good yearly gig can be hosted (The Big Gig / Edge of the World style events as are being discussed on another thread).  The hall would then serve as the backup venue in the event of bad weather - something which could have been so useful this summer past.  Also all the power requirements, stage signal feeds, etc. could be laid into the ground so that an open air gig would be halfway there - with all the access through manholes, etc.

Of course the venue would have to be staffed from at least 10am - 9pm and maybe later during events, albeit some may only be required part-time.  At least one knowledgable engineer would have to be on hand whenever there are bands in, as well as bar, cleaning & maintenance staff available during/after events.  The idea of young bands having a nominated adult who has to be present is a great one.

A good way to manage the booking of the hall & rooms would be via a website with online booking facility.  That way a band wishing to book can register (having to agree to the terms of use of the venue in doing so), can see what's booked, and can reserve a slot easily.  If it ever got to the situation where there were more bands than rehersal slots, or if bands were hogging the premium slots, then it would need to be rotated so that other bands could get access to the better time slots.  If other non-arts groups wished to book a room or the hall then, when they registered, part of the agreement would be that they would have to give way to art's-groups in the event of a conflict.  This could be open to abuse but the art's group would have to justify why they needed a particular slot before a non-arts event was cancelled in favour of their event.

Anyway, there are some great ideas being bought up so far and without good ideas, and plenty of people contributing & behind the ideas, it'll never get off the ground.  We all know how difficult it is going to be to persuade the powers that be to agree, and to get funding in place, but it's got to be worth a go so less of the pessimism and more of the enthusiasm please.

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## Jeid

> Kiddies, stop bickering and keep it on topic. If you wanna argue, use PM's. This is a decent thread and you pair are both acting like bairns.
> 
> contradiction is a swine is it not lol


I wasn't bickering like a school child on the playground. I was making points and there was no name calling.

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## K dragon

well dude thats what i was doin,

you may be a moderator and all but still you were fighting with him i wasnt bickering eiother mind you as of late any forum descussion is a bicker.....

NEWMARKET RUUUUULEEESSS!!!!!!

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## Deemac

K Dragon,
What you on just now?

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## Jeid

> well dude thats what i was doin,
> 
> you may be a moderator and all but still you were fighting with him i wasnt bickering eiother mind you as of late any forum descussion is a bicker.....


So, because I was being pessimistic, I was fighting? Erm, grab a hold of reality. If we were to hold this conversation in person, then you would hear what I was saying(to clash) and if I was really "fighting"... or arguing as we should be saying, then I'm sure there would have been a big fall out. Instead, Clash actually asked for ideas, which, I gladly provided and he's responded. I've never said over the course of the thread that I'm against his ideas, just that perhaps we shouldn't get too excited just yet.

If I was arguing, I'd be stating that this is the most stupid idea in the world and I'm dead against it etc etc etc.

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## Jeid

> K Dragon,
> What you on just now?


You should be in bed... you're going to Edinburger tomorrow. I feel sorry for Dom... Chobbers will be keeping the poor man awake for the next two days  ::

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## K dragon

im on jack daniels deemac




woah jeid, you got a  bug up your butt recentley, your as uptight as cazaa, im just kidding.

maybe i should retire from the old caithness.org, its getting to uptight for my tastes, maybe a young muso cant cut it in this forum anymore.

oh well im off for an absinthe.

peace out muso's

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## clash67

Thank You Bobinovich, you made a lot of good points and that was what I was hoping for. yes I think the recording studio was maybe not such a good idea, we have a number of perfectly good studios around us and they have all the technical know how already.
I was aiming for a 1500 capacity because I was hoping we could intercept some of the big name bands that pass through Thurso on their way to Orkney, and having the hall sectioned of for smaller events is also a good idea, these will be some of the ideas that I will bring to the table at the next meeting.
and to everyone else please don't this thread continue to be more of an argument than an ideas factory. 
Thank You. :Wink:

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## Reev

> Reev,
> 
> b4 i joined the band there was no lugging around of equipment as it lived in riddels woodyard. I take my bass amp to practice as u left urs at pablos years ago and have yet to pick it up. We have to use the Empty Fortune PA as you are incapable of wiring the plug on your one! Plus, Im the poor soul who has to unload the car & trailer when i take the gear home.
> 
> Rant over (for now until Ben comes up with another feeble excuse)


ill make this simple, you do what your told when your told, if you want to be the mug who doe sit all, then by all means do so, my bass amp now has a home at pablo's, it would be ashame to move it, incapable, oh no no, js dont want to KILL myself using it with the one ive got, and you unloads the gear, yes, cause hey, ITS YOURS  ::

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## Reev

:: , so now your all ranting and fighting over the fact that someone said you were ranting and figting but you said you werent ranting and fighting, so now instead you are ALL RANTING AND FIGHTING

 ::

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## Deemac

> You should be in bed... you're going to Edinburger tomorrow. I feel sorry for Dom... Chobbers will be keeping the poor man awake for the next two days


 
Jeid,
Your spot on - Poor Dom looks a hollow man now after the Edinburger stint. Him and Chobbers went off to a piano bar looking for more booze after the gig. I believe it was past 5am before they crashed. And then 6 hours in a car going back up north. I learned after Strathpeffer NOT to share a room with Chobbers - He's a party animal!!!! (Or is he?) . . . . .  ::

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