# General > Politics >  Indy Converstaion

## rob murray

In the Summer, the SNP, according to Sturgeon are going to have some sort of "conversation" about Independence. Not a second referendum. Not even a precursor to a second referendum. A conversation !!!!!!! Who with ??  apparently strategists advise engaing the no voters. how elese can they move the yes% forwards...but to do this against a £15billion deficit this year and a larger one next year, when 55% voted no when oil was $110 a barrel and a  mjor economic contributor.....nah an impossibility.

This was a pre election conference and there is an immediate prize for the SNP and that is retaining office while giving the Labour Party another kicking on the way. Not a small prize. Indeed, if you are now a Minister, or an MSP, or  a paid constituency worker, or a wannabee or any one of these, a very important prize indeed. 

But at some point somebody is going to ask, and theyre now grumbling....... "Whatever happened to Independence?" Just as,  last Summer the Labour Party, in the context of the three terms of Blair landslides nonetheless asked "Whatever happened to socialism?"

The problem is, t*hat* what is popular with Party activists  of any Party, is seldom what is popular with the general public. 

At some point even the currently unimpeachable  Sturgeon will have to face her activists honestly, tell them that Independence is off the agenda because there is no way Scotland would be daft enough to vote for it. By her own figures she wont progress until she knows she has 60% of population in favour and not a single poll since 2014 has come any where near that...... ever. That is the "particularly" *that*   referred to above. From start to finish, 2011-14 there was  only one poll that put them ahead and then they lost decisively by 10%. Since then, any examination of the detaisl indicates that even the prospectus that got them to 45% was a hopelessly optimistic one. Then, if she survives that different diffuclt "conversation", she'll have to tell the rest of us why she should remain in office,nonetheless, ie the non indy / indy party. At that juncture politics then returns to normal. left  centre right, as the nationalist indy agenda will be marginalised  for ever.

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## rob murray

JUst threw some words togther to get thread back on top : time will out we shall see I aaut the big coverstaion with baited breath !!!

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## rob murray

Nicola Sturgeon and John Swinney have staged a concerted attempt to repair the damage to public “confidence” in their independence case inflicted by official figures showing Scotland has a £15 billion deficit. The First Minister conducted a high-profile interview with the BBC’s Andrew Neil in which she repeatedly claimed that the 2014-15 deficit, twice the size of the UK’s, would have been manageable after separation.  She said it could be dealt with “in the same way” as the UK brought down its deficit after the financial crash, *only to then disown the austerity policies used by George Osborne to achieve that. HOW ELSE WILL THEY MANAGE THE DEFICIT ?????*
 She also rejected as “ridiculous” warnings that a separate Scotland would be forced to accept an EU-imposed austerity package, like Greece, as the price of joining the EU and ignored Mr Neil’s invitation to thank the taxpayers of the rest of the UK for propping up Holyrood’s budget. 

 Mr Swinney used his speech to the SNP conference to argue that increasing confidence was the key to winning independence and accused political opponents of “celebrating” the collapse in the value of oil to undermine that. *NO SWINNEY, NO ONE IS CELEBRATING THE COLLAPSE OF OIL AS THAT IMPACTS UPON THE REAL WORLD WHERE REAL PEOPLE LIVE AND ( USED ) TO WORK : NO.... VOTERS CELEBRATE THE FACT THAT THE  DISTORTION PEDDLED BY YOU SALMON AND STURGEON HAVE BEEN EXPOSED FOR WHAT THEY WERE : AND IF NO = 55% AT A TIME WHEN OIL WAS $110 A BARREL, HE AND HIS LEADER KNOW THAT IF A VOTE WAS CALLED ANYTIME SOON THE % WOULD BE A LOT GREATER AND THEY ARE FINISHED*.   
 “Our task is to continue to do what I believe in my heart we have done since 2007 – to work to create a more confident country,” he said. “Because a more confident country, is a country more likely to vote for independence.” Ok 2007-2011 SNP got things done, scine 2011 theyve done sod all except cause annoyance  
 However, like Ms Sturgeon, *he did not specify how a separate Scotland would have reduced the deficit.  YOU KNOW WHY, AS HE CAN ONLY MAKE CUTS AND RAISE TAXES THATS WHY !!*

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## rob murray

> JUst threw some words together to get thread back on top : time will out we shall see I await the big conversation with baited breath !!!


Dye waant indy pal ?.....................no.......................nex  t please

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## orkneycadian

Seems the monotonous Wee Krankie wants to start beating the drum again.....

https://news.sky.com/story/nicola-st...ebate-11379583

Though now its moved from "conversation" to "debate".

What bit about "No" is it she has so much trouble understanding?

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## dozy

Good to see that HATE brigade is alive and well , just a new slogan " We hate you all ,that's means both sides of the North Sea ".  This type of hateful, vindictive and spiteful language should be stopped ,if the speaker of the chair in Westminster can possibility lose his job for saying " stupid women " the person who posted should be reprinted to the police .

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## Goodfellers

I personally think independence is a bad idea. 

Because the UK is a great place to live, I am allowed to express my views (this is why so many immigrants try to get here legally or otherwise).

If another referendum does happen we need to remember that Theresa May and the conservatives are not 'The English'. All the English tourists doing the NC500 or just visiting are decent normal people, not the power grabbing monsters portrayed by the politicians. Oil money is never going to what it was, so keeping the union is in Scotland's interest. Quite a few English would love Scotland to 'break free' to save the English tax payer a fair bit of money.

Scotland had to go cap in hand to London a few hundred years ago when it bankrupted itself, lets not make the same mistake again. 

The EU will not be interested in Scotland joining as it would not be a net contributor and would cost Germany and France even more to subsidise Scotland. If by some miracle, Scotland's economy exceeded my expectation, then we would end up handing over billions to the EU rather than spending it here on education and hopefully the roads.

Just my personal views.

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## mi16

Lest say wee Jimmy does get herself another referendum an once again the nation votes to remain part of the union, will the matter be put to bed for eternity??
Will it buffalo, the separatists will regroup and launch campaign after campaign, but heaven forbid that they get a vote to separate then we will be told that the public have spoken and we will March clean off the fiscal cliff (mush like we are currently doing with Brexit)
David Cameron was entirely correct when he described it as a neverendum.
Best we can do is vote out wee Jimmy and her pals at the next available opportunity.

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## dozy

Unionist terrorism is a strange thing but with one common denominator ' they hate everyone that ain't the same '  . Hitler thinking wrapped in a Union Jack flag . Some see Unionism as the new master race through control of its people , funny how history has a way of repeating itself.  Unionists are again fighting hope, choice and change with FEAR , and we wonder why women live in fear of abuse throughout their lives . A Vote for unionism and keep the abuse and fear alive.

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## Goodfellers

You live in a very odd world Dozy where women live in fear of abuse all their life!

Are you suggesting that if Scotland were to become independent women would be safe for ever?  Have you ever heard of alcohol? My guess, alcohol is the main reason women live in fear, be it domestic or out on the street. I respect the SNP for taxing alcohol the way they have but unless they ban it completely then I'm afraid women will still be at risk.  Unless you know something about an independent Scotland that I don't.

You also claim unionist 'hate everyone that ain't the same' I suspect everyone in Wick and everyone in Thurso must be a unionist as there is a long standing dislike of each other. What about Helmsdale and Brora, another lot that dislike each other. Dislike/distrust of anyone outside of your locality is normal and nothing to do with politics.

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## mi16

> Unionist terrorism is a strange thing but with one common denominator ' they hate everyone that ain't the same '  . Hitler thinking wrapped in a Union Jack flag . Some see Unionism as the new master race through control of its people , funny how history has a way of repeating itself.  Unionists are again fighting hope, choice and change with FEAR , and we wonder why women live in fear of abuse throughout their lives . A Vote for unionism and keep the abuse and fear alive.


Since when has Unionism become a race you walloper?

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## Goodfellers

> Seems the monotonous Wee Krankie wants to start beating the drum again.....
> 
> https://news.sky.com/story/nicola-st...ebate-11379583
> 
> Though now its moved from "conversation" to "debate".
> 
> What bit about "No" is it she has so much trouble understanding?



She is a selfish so and so. All she is interested in is going down in history as "the one" who gave Scotland back to the Scottish. She doesn't care if it's broken beyond repair by then, she will be living somewhere warm and sunny with a fat pension curtesy of the few tax payers left

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## mi16

> She is a selfish so and so. All she is interested in is going down in history as "the one" who gave Scotland back to the Scottish. She doesn't care if it's broken beyond repair by then, she will be living somewhere warm and sunny with a fat pension curtesy of the few tax payers left


The same as Fat Eck tried to do, hopefully Wee Jimmy gets the same result

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## dozy

> Since when has Unionism become a race you walloper?


Unionists think they are the master race and not to be questioned . Throwing personal insults abouts someone shows that's you don't have the capacity to change , I pity anyone that's around you that what's change or choice, the unionist goose steppers and anyone that holds David Cameron up as the fountain of knowledge is sadly mistake and dangerous .

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## mi16

> Unionists think they are the master race and not to be questioned . Throwing personal insults abouts someone shows that's you don't have the capacity to change , I pity anyone that's around you that what's change or choice, the unionist goose steppers and anyone that holds David Cameron up as the fountain of knowledge is sadly mistake and dangerous .


Have you just rattled out random words using your elbows in the hope that a sentence may be produced, or is that supposed to make some kind of sense?

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## Goodfellers

> Have you just rattled out random words using your elbows in the hope that a sentence may be produced, or is that supposed to make some kind of sense?


I imagine it's what happens when the SNP have been in charge of education for so long, thank God I was educated in the 60's and 70's

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## dozy

> I imagine it's what happens when the SNP have been in charge of education for so long, thank God I was educated in the 60's and 70's


Thanks god I wasn't born when the Westminster crew started a war, murdered thousand of innocent folk with dark or tanned skin or rodded the disabled of their dues or stopped the NHS giving cancer patients their medication  and hundreds of thousand of other stuff that the unionist goose steppers want to forget .

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## Goodfellers

> Thanks god I wasn't born when the Westminster crew started a war, murdered thousand of innocent folk with dark or tanned skin or rodded the disabled of their dues or stopped the NHS giving cancer patients their medication  and hundreds of thousand of other stuff that the unionist goose steppers want to forget .



I can cope with the UK going to war.....but I would draw the line at _rodding_ ​the disabled :-)  You might want to proof read before you post.....I know we all make mistakes but you seem to make far more than most.

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## mi16

> Thanks god I wasn't born when the Westminster crew started a war, murdered thousand of innocent folk with dark or tanned skin or rodded the disabled of their dues or stopped the NHS giving cancer patients their medication  and hundreds of thousand of other stuff that the unionist goose steppers want to forget .


I know, my uncle was only mowing the lawn bare chested when he was beaten to death for having a tan.
And I dont want to repeat what happened to my poor gran after she returned from a week in Ibiza
They do say the sun is bad for us though.

Not as bad as my wheelchair bound neighbor, he got a right old rodding, and to make it worse he had to sit down again afterwards

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## Goodfellers

::  Who knew that politics could be amusing!

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## Goodfellers

Dozy. Let's talk about women living in fear. What are your views on the marine fisheries officer (female) working at Scrabster allegedly abused by her collegues. This was the main story on BBC Scotland news. The SNP government refused to allow her to talk to the BBC. And you think the SNP and independence are the right way to go?

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## Westward

> You live in a very odd world Dozy where women live in fear of abuse all their life!
> 
> Are you suggesting that if Scotland were to become independent women would be safe for ever?  Have you ever heard of alcohol? My guess, alcohol is the main reason women live in fear, be it domestic or out on the street. I respect the SNP for taxing alcohol the way they have but unless they ban it completely then I'm afraid women will still be at risk.  Unless you know something about an independent Scotland that I don't.
> 
> You also claim unionist 'hate everyone that ain't the same' I suspect everyone in Wick and everyone in Thurso must be a unionist as there is a long standing dislike of each other. What about Helmsdale and Brora, another lot that dislike each other. Dislike/distrust of anyone outside of your locality is normal and nothing to do with politics.


Alcohol abuse and domestic abuse don't always go hand in hand, some women do live in fear, some for most of their lives do look over their shoulder, most thankfully, are able to leave the past in the past and move on, I believe that domestic violence has no place in a discussion about Scotland becoming independent, your comparisons Goodfellers is way off line, there will always be arguments for and against, however, there is absolutely no need for  derogation of another's point of view.

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## mi16

> Alcohol abuse and domestic abuse don't always go hand in hand, some women do live in fear, some for most of their lives do look over their shoulder, most thankfully, are able to leave the past in the past and move on, I believe that domestic violence has no place in a discussion about Scotland becoming independent, your comparisons Goodfellers is way off line, there will always be arguments for and against, however, there is absolutely no need for  derogation of another's point of view.



Not always hand in hand, but very often this is the case.
I do agree that domestic abuse and Scottish independence have no real place in the same discussion but it wasn't Goodfellers that made the analogy.

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## Goodfellers

> Not always hand in hand, but very often this is the case.
> I do agree that domestic abuse and Scottish independence have no real place in the same discussion but it wasn't Goodfellers that made the analogy.


Thank you mi16 for pointing that fact out to Westward who clearly did not read/follow the thread properly

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## Westward

> Thank you mi16 for pointing that fact out to Westward who clearly did not read/follow the thread properly


Sorry, consider my wrist slapped  :Smile:

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## Goodfellers

> Sorry, consider my wrist slapped


Thank you!

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## dozy

> Dozy. Let's talk about women living in fear. What are your views on the marine fisheries officer (female) working at Scrabster allegedly abused by her collegues. This was the main story on BBC Scotland news. The SNP government refused to allow her to talk to the BBC. And you think the SNP and independence are the right way to go?



Like anything you you can always find bad apples and in Westminster the barrel is rotten to the core . It's a bid low handy to use an item that at present is an allegation of bad behaviour and if proved the full weight of the law should prevail. Pity that we don't have the same rules exerted on Westminster when they commit acts of criminality, but we can't have our masters paying for their mistakes that's our job .  Just to let you know ,I  look at both sides and I'm as critical of the independent side . You have already picked the hat dockers side and will never see the Westminster gangster for what they are , slavery comes in many forms if we can set people FREE to choose because of their colour surely we can respect and allow Scots ( and I means scots ) choose without any side using FEAR and ABUSE to keep you chained.

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## mi16

Dozy
I think you will find that we have already made our choice on the independence situation, that’s absolutely fine.
It’s the yes gang's refusal to accept the decision that sticks in the throat.
Re the allegation of bad behaviour, they say a picture tells 1000 words, I doubt if she taped herself to the chair and also her ignored complaints, it all seems a little more than an allegation at this stage.

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## Goodfellers

We can all agree there all self serving politicians on all side, always have been and always will be, SNP included.

If the SNP want 'true' independence why split from the UK just to join the EU and have to abide by their rules? No ability to strike trade deals with other countries and all the benefits of proper independence. 

SNP have just put tax up for higher earners, yet in the paper released today they say they want to give tax breaks to higher earning immigrants to attract them to Scotland....why not lower tax to all higher earners to keep them in Scotland. Huge shortage of doctors, nurses and teachers, etc. yet SNP put up tax for these very people. If I had just qualified and was offered a job in Inverness or Birmingham I know where I would choose based on tax alone.

I still believe the SNP are only interested in _getting_ independence, not administering it. They will flee the moment (God forbid) independence happens and bask in the Wikipedia glory of giving Scotland back to the Scots.

Ps You say "we can respect and allow Scots ( and I means scots ) ". Are you saying that only inhabitants of Scotland who were born and bred here can vote?

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## crayola

> I imagine it's what happens when the SNP have been in charge of education for so long, thank God I was educated in the 60's and 70's


Ha ha, youre on a wind up or you dont know dozy.  :Smile:

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## Goodfellers

> Ha ha, you’re on a wind up or you don’t know dozy.


I think I have his measure.....I imagine a fully paid up flag waver :-)

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## orkneycadian

And there you have your flag thief?

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## Goodfellers

Dozy wouldn't want a boring flag like that. He claims his heritage goes back 700 years (about the time of the Saxon invasion) So I suspect his ancestors were in fact English! And as his family have never had to borrow money and owned their estate for the same 700 years, I expect 'Dozy' is a pseudonym and perhaps we should be addressing him as 'Sir'

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## Rheghead

Well Sturgeon can have all the conversations that she wants but I will be voting No to Scottish Independence.  My precious England does not need a competitor on these small islands, and especially one that has a tenth of the population of my own country; a large land and sea area which means Scottish people would enjoy a huge amount of natural resources that is disproportional per capita.  At the moment, all that oil money etc is being channelled to England, well at least 90% of it which suits me fine so why change?
Plus the fact, the UK parliament is superior in English MPs to keep out the political will of Scots from having any effect as was demonstrated in recent years.  So this present arrangement is a win-win for me and has served the UK fine for over 300 years.

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## mi16

Good man rheg glad you have seen sense

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## Rheghead

> Good man rheg glad you have seen sense


Indeed, if Scotland was independent then they would be bathing in a multitude of natural resources from oil to renewable energy, I want my precious England to get the lion's share of that wealth and keep the Scots on a pittance.

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## mi16

> Indeed, if Scotland was independent then they would be bathing in a multitude of natural resources from oil to renewable energy, I want my precious England to get the lion's share of that wealth and keep the Scots on a pittance.


Bathing in Brent Crude would be seriously harmful to your health

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## Alrock

> Bathing in Brent Crude would be seriously harmful to your health


Would it?
https://edition.cnn.com/travel/artic...jan/index.html

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