# General > Politics >  Ditch the Flag

## piratelassie

It's surely time to ditch the butchers apron and only use our national flags. The history of the union flag is too shameful.

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## SkozkrHorgr

If not for that flag and what it stands for, you wouldn't be able to sit comfortably at your keyboard/tablet/phone and have the freedom to complain about anything and everything. So I respect that piece of clothe and what it enables me to do, so please carry on, that is your right.

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## golach

> It's surely time to ditch the butchers apron and only use our national flags. The history of the union flag is too shameful.


Certainly not, I am with Team GB, and our national flag every time 😀

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## piratelassie

That flag represents blood and empire whether we like it or not. Regards keyboard, tablet, phone etc. what have these items got to do with empire building?

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## golach

> That flag represents blood and empire whether we like it or not. Regards keyboard, tablet, phone etc. what have these items got to do with empire building?


I have served under three ensigns, the Red while serving in the Merchant Navy , Blue while serving on Royal Fleet Auxiliarys, and then 27 years serving the White in the Royal Naval Reserve and I am proud of it , and I am not a key board warrior, have been there and served my time, and would do it again.

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## sids

> That flag represents blood and empire whether we like it or not.


It's just a flag.

What country never went to war?

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## roshep

Sid, it is not JUST a flag but it is JUST Piratelassie  spouting dribble again.

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## piratelassie

Golach, you can be proud of your own history, but not Brittish history when it involves exploiting other nations, slavery, invasion for gain etc. and roshep, if you think my post is dribble (what ever that is) please explain why.

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## golach

> Golach, you can be proud of your own history, but not Brittish history when it involves exploiting other nations, slavery, invasion for gain etc. and roshep, if you think my post is dribble (what ever that is) please explain why.


Our National flag includes the cross of St Andrew, and if you check you history , you will find that most of the slave traders were Scots , who exploited thousands for profit, Scotland history is full of greed and misery as well. , as one of the failed 45%'s your just spouting sour grapes.

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## piratelassie

It was a Brittish Empire not an English, Welsh, Irish or Scottish Empire. If the UK had never been created there would not have been an empire to be ashamed of.

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## golach

I was not ashamed of Team Great Britain during the last Olymipc Games, have visited many of the Commonwealth countries, they all seemed to be prospering , which i doubt An independent Scotland would be, just look at the state under 10 years of SNP rule, NHS broken, Education broken, Police broken, Oil industry broken.

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## rob murray

> It's surely time to ditch the butchers apron and only use our national flags. The history of the union flag is too shameful.


You've posted this before ??? Your a UK citizen whether you like it or not and thats your flag. You  got the same reactions before to your post and our "national" flag is of course untainted and as pure as driven snow is it ? Just have a wee squint at pre union history ie Scotland as an independent country 1644 / 1645 Scottish civil war, inter clan, clan "warfare" / thieving / murdering enslaving defeated clans, zealous religious bigotry.. yep a nice wee untainted country.

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## sids

> You've posted this before ??? Your a UK citizen whether you like it or not and thats your flag. You  got the same reactions before to your post and our "national" flag is of course untainted and as pure as driven snow is it ? Just have a wee squint at pre union history ie Scotland as an independent country 1644 / 1645 Scottish civil war, inter clan, clan "warfare" / thieving / murdering enslaving defeated clans, zealous religious bigotry.. yep a nice wee untainted country.


Not to mention The Scottish invasion of Ireland in 1315.

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## sids

The Duke of Cumberland had a different flag anyways.

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## rob murray

> The Duke of Cumberland had a different flag anyways.


Out of interest, what flag did he use, assuming its the culloden Duke of Cumberland ?

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## sids

> Out of interest, what flag did he use, assuming its the culloden Duke of Cumberland ?


I don't know, but it wouldn't be the 1802 Union Jack.

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## SkozkrHorgr

> It was a Brittish Empire not an English, Welsh, Irish or Scottish Empire. If the UK had never been created there would not have been an empire to be ashamed of.


If the UK hadn't of been created, the British isles would have been invaded many times over, the French, Spanish, Dutch etc all created empires to trade slaves and invade for gain, and WE would have been the people living under their rule. Empires existed and fought each other for resources, this is a fact of life, why can't we all get along and live in peace and harmony? Because Mankind on the whole is greedy, until we can get over this I don't think we'll have the world you protest so much for piratelassie.

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## Alrock

As a supporter of independence I just have to say that I like the flag & as long as we are part of the UK then it should remain...

The problem as I see it is that there is a lot of animosity towards it due to the fact that many English people think of it as an English flag & because of that so do many Scots...

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## tonkatojo

> As a supporter of independence I just have to say that I like the flag & as long as we are part of the UK then it should remain...
> 
> The problem as I see it is that there is a lot of animosity towards it due to the fact that many English people think of it as an English flag & because of that so do many Scots...


Your quite correct, there are a lot of poorly educated folk around.

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## sids

> The problem as I see it is that there is a lot of animosity towards it due to the fact that many English people think of it as an English flag & because of that so do many Scots...


That's quite a complicated way of blaming something on English people.

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## golach

> Your quite correct, there are a lot of poorly educated folk around.


You are so right about the poor education, it's falling apart up here, and who has control of education .....oh aye the SNP government 😱😱😱😱

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## bekisman

> If the UK had never been created there would not have been an empire to be ashamed of.


Yet another duh utterance I think?

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## rob murray

> I don't know, but it wouldn't be the 1802 Union Jack.


Thanks for the information

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## bekisman

Oh well the following will have to 'ditch their flag: New Zealand, Tuvalu, Cook Islands, Fiji, Queensland, British Columbia, Ontario, Manitoba, Newfoundland & Labrador, British Indian Ocean Territory, Bermuda, Falkland Islands, Niue, Taunton Massachusetts,  Baton Rouge, Louisiana, Coquimbo Chile, Cook Islands, Hawaii, red ensigns.. this goes on and on and on,

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## golach

> Oh well the following will have to 'ditch their flag: New Zealand, Tuvalu, Cook Islands, Fiji, Queensland, British Columbia, Ontario, Manitoba, Newfoundland & Labrador, British Indian Ocean Territory, Bermuda, Falkland Islands, Niue, Taunton Massachusetts,  Baton Rouge, Louisiana, Coquimbo Chile, Cook Islands, Hawaii, red ensigns Canadian Red Ensign.. this goes on and on and on,


Canada ditched the Red Ensign in 1961

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## bekisman

> Canada ditched the Red Ensign in 1961


I bow to your maritime knowledge *golah*.. this thread was SO silly had not checked in any depth...

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## golach

> I bow to your maritime knowledge *golah*.. this thread was SO silly had not checked in any depth...


Sorry Bekisman , I made a typo, it was 1965 that the Canadians ditched the Red Ensign.

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## piratelassie

Empire building is a fact of life, that does not in any way justify it. And yes France, Portugal,Germany, Spain etc. etc. have nothing to be proud of either. So I will not be associating myself with the Butchers Apron. Empire building is vile.

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## SkozkrHorgr

You could associate with the Caithness Flag piratelassie, it's that new it doesn't have any history to it?

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## sids

> Empire building is a fact of life, that does not in any way justify it. And yes France, Portugal,Germany, Spain etc. etc. have nothing to be proud of either. So I will not be associating myself with the Butchers Apron. Empire building is vile.


Better ditch the Scottish flag too.  That Darien scheme was blatant empire building.

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## bekisman

> Better ditch the Scottish flag too.  That Darien scheme was blatant empire building.


You mean this one: "The failure of the Darien colonisation project has been cited as one of the motivations for the 1707 Acts of Union.  According to this argument, the Scottish establishment considered that their *best chance* of  being part of a major power would be to share the benefits of* England's  international trade* and the growth of the English overseas possessions,  so its future would have to lie *in unity with England*.  So stop whinging *piratelassie* YOU asked to join England, NOT the other way around!

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## rob murray

> Empire building is a fact of life, that does not in any way justify it. And yes France, Portugal,Germany, Spain etc. etc. have nothing to be proud of either. So I will not be associating myself with the Butchers Apron. Empire building is vile.


You forgot to mention the Netherlands, if empire building is "vile" what about c21 empire building, what do you think the good ol US of A is doing, and China / India and for years Japan, the essence of capitalism is building and protecting "trade" empires. The only way to get away from this is to become 100% self sufficient and live on an uninhabited island otherwise your just another hypocrite in a world of hypocrisy

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## piratelassie

If only that was possible.

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## Fulmar

_If only that was possible_.There's Stroma!

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## sids

> _If only that was possible_.There's Stroma!


It belongs to someone.  You'd have to wage a small imperial war, to take it over.

Or buy it, obviously.

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## rob murray

> If only that was possible.


It is, find some where, go and form a commune, live a free life, if you can do without your creature comforts,  in any capitalist system ( which you live in now and will do if you get your Scottish independence ) we are all hypocrites in a world of hypocrisy, we all indulge in exploitation, its at the heart of the capitalist system, you cannot escape from it. Flags are but mere symbols

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## tonkatojo

> It belongs to someone. You'd have to wage a small imperial war, to take it over.
> 
> Or buy it, obviously.


Or move on and declare UDI and live happy ever after, good luck.

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## Alrock

> It is, find some where, go and form a commune, live a free life.


Easier said than done...

You'll find that all land is owned by someone so you would need to buy the land & then declare yourself as an independent state, something I can't see the powers that be allowing, so you would still have to live under their laws & pay any taxes they see fit to impose on you.

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## piratelassie

It's still known world wide as the butchers apron. I don't know of any other national flag with that reputation.

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## golach

> It's still known world wide as the butchers apron. I don't know of any other national flag with that reputation.


Our National Flag is only known as that by the 45% losers, sour grapes 😂😂😂

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## sids

> It's still known world wide as the butchers apron. I don't know of any other national flag with that reputation.


I've only ever heard one forum nutter call it that.  

So, World-wide but spread very thinly.

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## piratelassie

It was known as the butcher's apron long long before 2014, I was ashamed of it before that too

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## sids

Piratelassie's favourite car.

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## sids

> It was known as the butcher's apron long long before 2014,


Only by cranks.

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## rob murray

> It's still known world wide as the butchers apron. I don't know of any other national flag with that reputation.


Totallly unbelievable post and sHows your complete and utter ingorance then, the flags of the USSR, China, Cambodia and Nazi Germany to name but 4 are those of  total butchers, so your syaing the unin jack is more blood stained than Hitlers swastika, Stalins USSR flag etc, thats nuts you should apologise for the offence you've caused on here with your insinuations, but you are so brainwashed and warped you believe the garbage you spout so I wouldnt expect you to. Thankfully there will be no indy2 or any chance of any indy vote going in favour of separation, people like you are doing your cause no favours, cyber nats like you ruin any chance of indy so keep it up ! Your menat to be engaging the 55% in a conversation you know the party line persuade people to switch over...............

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