# General > Politics >  The Real Face of The SNP

## rob murray

Todays BBC News : Scottish Labour leader Jim Murphy and comedian Eddie Izzard were heckled by opponents during general election campaigning in Glasgow.
There were scuffles involving Labour Party supporters and their opponents in the city centre.
Mr Murphy had been trying to address party activists alongside Mr Izzard.
Protesters, who played loud music and shouted "Red Tories out", drowned out the politician as he tried to speak to the crowd.
Mr Murphy said the protest was evidence that the SNP was trying to disrupt the democratic process.


However, demonstrators interviewed by the BBC denied they were there on behalf of the SNP.
*'Violent emotion'*Some of the protesters were waving SNP leaflets, while Mr Murphy was branded a "traitor" and a "warmongerer".
He said: "This sort of aggressive nationalism should have no place in our election. We've got a few days until we can kick David Cameron out of office, a few days to change our country forever and we won't be silenced by this form of aggressive nationalism, it's anti-democratic."
He added: "This isn't the type of Scotland we want."
Mr Izzard said: "It's ok having different opinions, but everyone should be able to put their opinion forward. This aggressive, this violent emotion, why violence? Don't have violence, we should just put our point of view forward and then everyone makes their choice on Thursday."

My son who was staying with us up from London recieved a "broadcast" on twitter on Saturday night, a live recording of SNP people shouting "quislings and traitors" at labour people attending a meeting in Glasgow taking photos and threatening to expose the "quislings" on soicla media...so these issues are not one off's" : As for red tories...Ms Sturgeon has being making great play that she headed a minority government and had to cooperate with other parties in Holyrood ( inclusive of Torys ) and at westminster the SNP have a "proud proven " track record of supporting Tory legislatation...the truth is the SNP are saying one thing and behaving in an other way whilst all the time  condoning the actions of  the riff raff /  braveheart brigade. I notice the party has not condemened these incidents !! Again as Ruth Davidison put it last night, there are 59 Scottish MP's and everyone, despite party, are at westminster representing their scottish constituencies, representation is not the sole presevere of Nationalists and she, Sturgeon, is a two face hypocrite to encourage this sort of garbage which is being seized upon by the riff raff. ie THE ONLY REAL SCOTTISH REPRESENTATION AT WESTMINSTER IS THE SNP. Stop damn lying and stop the nonsense and calm the riff down otherwise things will get a great deal nasty. ANd if being anti Nats is being a quisling / traitor then Im for one am proud of being a "traitor" !

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## rob murray

*Red Tories : Tartan Bloody Tories more like : 

*F*ORMER Toryleader Annabel Goldie hasaccused the SNP of hypocrisy after explaining how she worked side by side withthem at Holyrood.In an interview with the Daily Record, Goldie revealed the close relationship she enjoyed with former firstminister Alex Salmond during his spell at the head of a minority governmentbetween 2007 and 2011.The nationalists have ruled out working with the Toriesat Westminster after May’s general election in a bid to convince former Laboursupporters to vote for them.*
*But Goldie, whostill sits at the ScottishParliament as a West of Scotland MSP, explained the details of thearrangement the Tories and SNP enjoyed for four years.“They were quite happy towork with us when they needed to,” she said.The two parties voted togetherfrequently throughout Salmond’s first term in power, with the former SNP leaderrequiring Tory support to get all four of his budgets passed during thatperiod.In return, Conservativepolicies on police officer numbers, extra support for small businesses anddrugs policy were implemented by the SNP government.*
*“Alex Salmondknew he could not get agreement from Labour,” Goldie said. “He knew his firstbudget was in danger of falling.*

Annabel Goldie“And when thechips were down and he had to find support for his budget, I don’t rememberAlex Salmond jumping up and down and saying he cannot do business with theTories.“Alex Salmond took those Tory votes and Alex Salmond was glad to getthem.”But she added: “The only time I spoke directly with Alex Salmond on thesematters was with the drug strategy.“Negotiations were free-flowing between allparties. But it wasn’t a case of the SNP coming to us at the last minutedesperate for support.
“Our positionwas very clear. In return for supporting theirbudget, the SNP would include Conservative policies in their budget. Itwas as simple as that.”The bulk of negotiations were between her financespokesman Derek Brownlee and finance secretary John Swinney, acting throughtheir representatives.Despite that close relationship, the SNP slammed ScottishLabour for joining the Tories in the referendum No campaign.
Salmond and hissuccessor as first minister, Nicola Sturgeon,repeatedly accused the party of “getting into bed with the Tories”.Goldie said:“It reeks of posturing and it is, frankly, indicative of hypocrisy. Becausewhat suited him in 2007 and 2008 and in the ensuing years of minoritygovernment is the very thing now that he says he’ll have no truck with.”

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## rob murray

Heres a geezer that would have been proud of the nationalists tactics : 
]

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## rob murray

> Why would a 'leader' think that it would be off any benefit to bring along a comedian, born in another country, to help in an election drive, in Scotland? 
> 'Oh, I know, how's about we take some random stand up comic from 'Live at the Apollo' to help us dig ourselves out of the quagmire, in our shambolic attempts to win Scotland over...   :-/


Dunno, and yes ive seen the footage and heard / seen other footage  if you think its ok, well fine for you.

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## rob murray

> Did you actually watch the video footage? 
> What a shambles. How does anyone think they can be taken seriously as a member of parliament, as a leader & as a representative of the people, when this type of Neanderthal, no-brain behaviour is all you can come up with? Defies all logic.


What  are you on about :" when this type of Neanderthal, no-brain behaviour is all you can come up with"?............... thats my damn point the behaviour is neanderthal...Sturgeons and her pals are playing with fire and any fool can see that a mile off. This isnt the first time Murphy has been singled out, or have you conveniently forgotten the abuse / eggs thron when he did his soap box "no" campaign : no 55% yes 45%......Also to euqliaise things up a bit, yessers attacked in George Square by unionists, we are swimming with sharks

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## rob murray

> Did you actually watch the video footage? 
> What a shambles. How does anyone think they can be taken seriously as a member of parliament, as a leader & as a representative of the people, when this type of Neanderthal, no-brain behaviour is all you can come up with? Defies all logic.


See for yersel : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2...tland-32581803

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## rob murray

> Why would a 'leader' think that it would be off any benefit to bring along a comedian, born in another country, to help in an election drive, in Scotland? 
> 'Oh, I know, how's about we take some random stand up comic from 'Live at the Apollo' to help us dig ourselves out of the quagmire, in our shambolic attempts to win Scotland over...   :-/


Ah I see...born in another country......big bloody deal...so youve got to be a scot to help out eh ...labour is a shambles that I agree with, but we will see on Friday how the SNIPPERS do and what happens if Cameron  / MIllaband gets in and need to horse trade.

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## Alrock

> Why would a 'leader' think that it would be off any benefit to bring along a comedian, born in another country, to help in an election drive, in Scotland? 
> 'Oh, I know, how's about we take some random stand up comic from 'Live at the Apollo' to help us dig ourselves out of the quagmire, in our shambolic attempts to win Scotland over...   :-/


Didn't you know... Jim Murphy is actually Michael Barrymore...



Have you ever seen them in the same room at the same time?

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## rob murray

Nah...but neither have I seen the krankies either

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## golach

Today we have seen the Provisional SNP in operation in Glasgow

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## squidge

Oh dear, The person involved in this mornings carry on and the stuff over the weekend where incidentally there were around 20 protesters was one Sean Clerkin. Plan our expected him to be there as you can see from Duncan Hothersall's tweets this morning prior to the event. Sean Clerkin is a nasty wee man who described himself as a non-aligned socialist in the Scotsman in 2010.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/sean-cl...sense-1-801247

He once stood as a parliamentary candidate for the SSP - 1996 - I believe. He carried out a protest at the YES offices on hope street against the commonwealth games. This aggressive mob today appeared to be this one man, with a sheet of cardboard and a megaphone, Although his sidekick was somewhere close playing loud music as he usually does. This bloke is a nasty unpleasant wee nyaff but unfortunately for your frothing at the mouth and Golachs misplaced glee he is not a member of the SNP.

Edit. It appears that the Daily Herald is reporting that Sean Clerkin was tipped off by Labour Party activists this morning at 8.30. Wonder why that was then?

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## rob murray

> Oh dear, The person involved in this mornings carry on and the stuff over the weekend where incidentally there were around 20 protesters was one Sean Clerkin. Plan our expected him to be there as you can see from Duncan Hothersall's tweets this morning prior to the event. Sean Clerkin is a nasty wee man who described himself as a non-aligned socialist in the Scotsman in 2010.
> 
> http://www.scotsman.com/news/sean-cl...sense-1-801247
> 
> He once stood as a parliamentary candidate for the SSP - 1996 - I believe. He carried out a protest at the YES offices on hope street against the commonwealth games. This aggressive mob today appeared to be this one man, with a sheet of cardboard and a megaphone, Although his sidekick was somewhere close playing loud music as he usually does. This bloke is a nasty unpleasant wee nyaff but unfortunately for your frothing at the mouth and Golachs misplaced glee he is not a member of the SNP.
> 
> Edit. It appears that the Daily Herald is reporting that Sean Clerkin was tipped off by Labour Party activists this morning at 8.30. Wonder why that was then?


 "frothing at the mouth" says it all......great factual retort

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## rob murray

> Oh dear, The person involved in this mornings carry on and the stuff over the weekend where incidentally there were around 20 protesters was one Sean Clerkin. Plan our expected him to be there as you can see from Duncan Hothersall's tweets this morning prior to the event. Sean Clerkin is a nasty wee man who described himself as a non-aligned socialist in the Scotsman in 2010.
> 
> http://www.scotsman.com/news/sean-cl...sense-1-801247
> 
> He once stood as a parliamentary candidate for the SSP - 1996 - I believe. He carried out a protest at the YES offices on hope street against the commonwealth games. This aggressive mob today appeared to be this one man, with a sheet of cardboard and a megaphone, Although his sidekick was somewhere close playing loud music as he usually does. This bloke is a nasty unpleasant wee nyaff but unfortunately for your frothing at the mouth and Golachs misplaced glee he is not a member of the SNP.
> 
> Edit. It appears that the Daily Herald is reporting that Sean Clerkin was tipped off by Labour Party activists this morning at 8.30. Wonder why that was then?


*Red Tories : Tartan Bloody Tories more like : Why wont Nicky the fish not continue her dealings with the Tories ? Why bother Labour...they dont wanna know ?? 

*F*ORMER Toryleader Annabel Goldie hasaccused the SNP of hypocrisy after explaining how she worked side by side withthem at Holyrood.In an interview with the Daily Record, Goldie revealed the close relationship she enjoyed with former firstminister Alex Salmond during his spell at the head of a minority governmentbetween 2007 and 2011.The nationalists have ruled out working with the Toriesat Westminster after May’s general election in a bid to convince former Labour supporters to vote for them.*
*But Goldie, who still sits at the ScottishParliament as a West of Scotland MSP, explained the details of the arrangement the Tories and SNP enjoyed for four years.“They were quite happy towork with us when they needed to,” she said.The two parties voted togetherfrequently throughout Salmond’s first term in power, with the former SNP leaderrequiring Tory support to get all four of his budgets passed during thatperiod.In return, Conservativepolicies on police officer numbers, extra support for small businesses anddrugs policy were implemented by the SNP government.*
*“Alex Salmondknew he could not get agreement from Labour,” Goldie said. “He knew his firstbudget was in danger of falling.*

Annabel Goldie“And when thechips were down and he had to find support for his budget, I don’t rememberAlex Salmond jumping up and down and saying he cannot do business with theTories.“Alex Salmond took those Tory votes and Alex Salmond was glad to getthem.”But she added: “The only time I spoke directly with Alex Salmond on thesematters was with the drug strategy.“Negotiations were free-flowing between allparties. But it wasn’t a case of the SNP coming to us at the last minutedesperate for support.
“Our positionwas very clear. In return for supporting theirbudget, the SNP would include Conservative policies in their budget. Itwas as simple as that.”The bulk of negotiations were between her financespokesman Derek Brownlee and finance secretary John Swinney, acting throughtheir representatives.Despite that close relationship, the SNP slammed ScottishLabour for joining the Tories in the referendum No campaign.
Salmond and his successor as first minister, Nicola Sturgeon,repeatedly *accused the party of “getting into bed with the Tories”.Goldie said:“It reeks of posturing and it is, frankly, indicative of hypocrisy. Because what suited him in 2007 and 2008 and in the ensuing years of minoritygovernment is the very thing now that he says he’ll have no truck with.”*

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## rob murray

> Today we have seen the Provisional SNP in operation in Glasgow


Yer no far wrong there, the nasty elements of the SNP are known to all, unless of course you are in denial....

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## squidge

> "frothing at the mouth" says it all......great factual retort


We're you not frothing Rob? Just a wee bit... Go on ...you know there was a little bit of froth wasn't there? Anything about Sean Clerkin that you disagree with?

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## rob murray

http://glasgowunihumanrights.blogspo...n-tactics.html

"Intimidation tactics are now becoming widespread in the Westminster 2015 election, such behaviour previously unheard of is becoming the Nationalists stock in trade. Now, people are openly speaking out about how the tactics of fascism are being played out in Scottish politics". No doubt Squidge will have a plausible denial on line in minutes.

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## rob murray

> We're you not frothing Rob? Just a wee bit... Go on ...you know there was a little bit of froth wasn't there? Anything about Sean Clerkin that you disagree with?


Never heard of the bloke, only picked the story up on the news, cant see how Murphy staged this, unless he is a masochist, but I  cant deny hearing the SNP activisits chants of traitors / quislings either though, do you want a copy..addd to yer collection ?   however lets see what your take is on the campaiagn for human rights Glasgow Uni bit I posted, anything you disagree with there. Seeing as how youve stated the slagging ( again ) ie frothing at the mouth...I wont respond. Lets hear your take on the url contents

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## rob murray

> We're you not frothing Rob? Just a wee bit... Go on ...you know there was a little bit of froth wasn't there? Anything about Sean Clerkin that you disagree with?


What does it matter, bookies have SNP on for 50 seats minimum so Id better get used to being lorded over or emigrate ( to old though )

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## squidge

Rob really, are you truly complaining about being called quislings and then in the same breath branding SNP supporters as fascists? 

ThEre are nasty elements in every group of people wherever they gather and whatever they call themselves, Rob. The point is that the "nasty element of the SNP" does not include Sean Clerkin and therefore this event this morning was not the Real face of the SNP.

You want my take on the quislings video? I think it is unacceptable to call people quislings full stop. Nor do I think that voting labour makes you some sort of idiot. I don't think either of these are accurate or kind. I wouldn't share this or support it. Nor would I support attacks on members of the public in Election Offices, or the suggestion that Tories should be booted, or the comments that suggest that those supporting the Union should take up arms, or the suggestion that supporting the SNP makes me a fascist - all commonly expressed by labour supporters in the last week.  Now, how about you? You support the view that we are all nazis? You think that labour supporters should arm themselves to protect the union?

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## Rheghead

> Oh dear, The person involved in this mornings carry on and the stuff over the weekend where incidentally there were around 20 protesters was one Sean Clerkin. Plan our expected him to be there as you can see from Duncan Hothersall's tweets this morning prior to the event. Sean Clerkin is a nasty wee man who described himself as a non-aligned socialist in the Scotsman in 2010.
> 
> http://www.scotsman.com/news/sean-cl...sense-1-801247
> 
> He once stood as a parliamentary candidate for the SSP - 1996 - I believe. He carried out a protest at the YES offices on hope street against the commonwealth games. This aggressive mob today appeared to be this one man, with a sheet of cardboard and a megaphone, Although his sidekick was somewhere close playing loud music as he usually does. This bloke is a nasty unpleasant wee nyaff but unfortunately for your frothing at the mouth and Golachs misplaced glee he is not a member of the SNP.
> 
> Edit. It appears that the Daily Herald is reporting that Sean Clerkin was tipped off by Labour Party activists this morning at 8.30. Wonder why that was then?


Thanks for the explanation, it certainly puts things into perspective.

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## rob murray

> Rob really, are you truly complaining about being called quislings and then in the same breath branding SNP supporters as fascists? 
> 
> ThEre are nasty elements in every group of people wherever they gather and whatever they call themselves, Rob. The point is that the "nasty element of the SNP" does not include Sean Clerkin and therefore this event this morning was not the Real face of the SNP.
> 
> You want my take on the quislings video? I think it is unacceptable to call people quislings full stop. Nor do I think that voting labour makes you some sort of idiot. I don't think either of these are accurate or kind. I wouldn't share this or support it. Nor would I support attacks on members of the public in Election Offices, or the suggestion that Tories should be booted, or the comments that suggest that those supporting the Union should take up arms, or the suggestion that supporting the SNP makes me a fascist - all commonly expressed by labour supporters in the last week.  Now, how about you? You support the view that we are all nazis? You think that labour supporters should arm themselves to protect the union?


Do  not be stupid ! Its extremist SNP twats calling folk quislings, and yes these people are engaging in fascist anti democratic practices ( I take it the Glasgow Uni site has hit home has it ) Your comment about labour supporters arming themselves is worse than pathetic..and no I dont believe in violence full stop,  but do your "crowd" ?

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## rob murray

> Rob really, are you truly complaining about being called quislings and then in the same breath branding SNP supporters as fascists? 
> 
> ThEre are nasty elements in every group of people wherever they gather and whatever they call themselves, Rob. The point is that the "nasty element of the SNP" does not include Sean Clerkin and therefore this event this morning was not the Real face of the SNP.
> 
> You want my take on the quislings video? I think it is unacceptable to call people quislings full stop. Nor do I think that voting labour makes you some sort of idiot. I don't think either of these are accurate or kind. I wouldn't share this or support it. Nor would I support attacks on members of the public in Election Offices, or the suggestion that Tories should be booted, or the comments that suggest that those supporting the Union should take up arms, or the suggestion that supporting the SNP makes me a fascist - all commonly expressed by labour supporters in the last week.  Now, how about you? You support the view that we are all nazis? You think that labour supporters should arm themselves to protect the union?


Sorry Miss / Ms / Mrs, deluded but you are either a member of a party with deep fascist roots or are a fascist sympathiser..see .http://ianssmart.blogspot.co.uk/2014...nd-others.html read your glorious parties "fascist / bigoted" history.........funny that the labour party greats including  Keir Hardie, James Maxton, Manny Shinwell, John Maclean et all were great libertarians ( at least 3 jailed for their beliefs ) as were the working people ( scots ) who fought fascism in Spain with the international brigade and provided monetary support and medical / ambulance services (and not to the republican fascists ). Your partys past is not mentioned by your current mob, your past has been airbrushed from history and no bloody wonder  eh...roots are deep in fascist /bigotry, of that there can be no doubt. More mouth frothing eh but I aint no fascist  ? Argue / squirm your way out of the sordid SNP past....go on go for it I love a laugh at revisionism.

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## gerry4

The 4 ring leaders are well known idiots who have been making trouble for many years. They have said that they are not supporters of the SNP & are part of a bunch of nutters called Scottish Resistance. It seems as if Murphy's friends in his party constituency contacted them at 8.30am about Murphy's movements.

The SNP & Nicola Sturgeon have both condemned it, as do I but no party can control or be expected to control extremists. Extremists exist in all of the political spectrum. To use these idiots as an example of SNP supporters is like comparing the BNP to the Tory party.

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## squidge

Rob, You asked me did I support the behaviour of the people in the quislings video and I said quite clearly and unequivocally that I do not. I simply asked you in return whether you support those people, like Ian Smart actually, who throw around the "all nats are nazis" insult and those like Jill Stephenson who suggest that unionists should arm themselves in the event of SNP success at the polls. It is clear that you refuse to call out your own nasty element and think that i and those other people supporting the SNP are fascists. That disappoints me.

 I will say this, you throw around great labour names like Keir hardy, James Maxwell and John Maclean but I am sure that even someone like you can recognise that the Labour Party of today is a pale imitation, a mere shadow of the party that those great names envisaged. Those great people you mention would be ashamed of the Labour Party today, turning in their graves at the idea that their party of the people has lost its way to such an extent that people think there is the possibility of them losing every seat they hold in Scotland in this General Election. There is nowhere else to lay blame for that than at the feet of the Labour Party itself. 

So just as the labour party is different than it used to be so the SNP is different. It also offers something different as far as politics is concerned and that's why around 105 000 people have joined. Or are we all fascists? All nazis? Get a grip. 

You continue to hurl around your insults, call me names, say I'm stupid and a fascist, join your voices with Ian smart and jill Stephenson when they call us nazis and say we should be shot - all 105 000 of us, if that is what you need to do to feel like you are winning. Like you are the "big man". All I did was point out the information which was available about what happened and crucially who was involved today. Im not trading insults with you all night Rob. Me? Us? We will get on with listening to people who actually have something to say that is worth listening to and guess what... That is not you.

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## Rheghead

The time for honouring himself will soon be at an end.

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## Kenn

Sadly whether the report was accurate or not, this is what the media will latch onto.

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## squidge

You are right Lizz, which is why it is important that where there is information about what really happened and who these people really were that can be verified, it is shared as widely as possible. I did make an error in one of my earlier posts. I said there were 2 protestors. There were actually 4.

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## Keyser_soze

I think you are correct Golach, these Nat trumpets had a republican flute band at one of their demo`s last week !!!! 

What next ? a power share with Sinn Fein ? a shower of murdering terrorists just to achieve the feat of fullfilling their ego ?

We all seen the burning of saltires in George Square but we also seen the burning of Union flags- which was swept under the carpet I may add, the constant bullying of folk who are strong enough to make up their own mind & vote yes or No to swing for the Yes campaign last year heavilly orchestrated by Nats.  These cretins make me sick, as for that clown attacking Murphy yesterday- He has history for it .

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## rob murray

> Rob, You asked me did I support the behaviour of the people in the quislings video and I said quite clearly and unequivocally that I do not. I simply asked you in return whether you support those people, like Ian Smart actually, who throw around the "all nats are nazis" insult and those like Jill Stephenson who suggest that unionists should arm themselves in the event of SNP success at the polls. It is clear that you refuse to call out your own nasty element and think that i and those other people supporting the SNP are fascists. That disappoints me.
> 
>  I will say this, you throw around great labour names like Keir hardy, James Maxwell and John Maclean but I am sure that even someone like you can recognise that the Labour Party of today is a pale imitation, a mere shadow of the party that those great names envisaged. Those great people you mention would be ashamed of the Labour Party today, turning in their graves at the idea that their party of the people has lost its way to such an extent that people think there is the possibility of them losing every seat they hold in Scotland in this General Election. There is nowhere else to lay blame for that than at the feet of the Labour Party itself. 
> 
> So just as the labour party is different than it used to be so the SNP is different. It also offers something different as far as politics is concerned and that's why around 105 000 people have joined. Or are we all fascists? All nazis? Get a grip. 
> 
> You continue to hurl around your insults, call me names, say I'm stupid and a fascist, join your voices with Ian smart and jill Stephenson when they call us nazis and say we should be shot - all 105 000 of us, if that is what you need to do to feel like you are winning. Like you are the "big man". All I did was point out the information which was available about what happened and crucially who was involved today. Im not trading insults with you all night Rob. Me? Us? We will get on with listening to people who actually have something to say that is worth listening to and guess what... That is not you.


We.....us.....Ive never heard of the people you mention...honestly I havent...they sound like a grim bunch of twisted idiots to me....so your saying Im a twisted warped idiot eh...thanks a bunch. Will agree that Labour complacency and drift from roots will kill them come Fridays announcements, its a pity that a once glorious workers party has been reduced to what they are. STill Labour dont airbrush their history : you still havent replied to the Glasgow Uni url on SNP election "tactics"....cos you know theres truth there and wont admit it. I maybe many things but I am not in denial.

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## rob murray

[QUOTE=rob murray;1117882]Fantastic, cheers thanks very much ! Hysterical  nonsense, I never said 105,000 should be shot nor implied it nor expressed any support for such insane nonsense, do you think Im Polpot,  stop playing the victim looking for demons / enemies : maybe you are chuffed that someone wants to shoot all 105,000 of you... immortal heroism a calling. Never mind Friday should see you top of the world ! Its what happens post Friday that will be of interest.

Good bye !

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## squidge

[QUOTE=rob murray;1117888]


> Fantastic, cheers thanks very much ! Hysterical  nonsense, I never said 105,000 should be shot nor implied it nor expressed any support for such insane nonsense, do you think Im Polpot,  stop playing the victim looking for demons / enemies : maybe you are chuffed that someone wants to shoot all 105,000 of you... immortal heroism a calling. Never mind Friday should see you top of the world ! Its what happens post Friday that will be of interest.
> 
> Good bye !


Ok Rob  - lets make this clear to you 

I dont think that you want us all dead - just like you are not the same as Ian Smart or Jill Stephenson - both Labour activists and commentators who you say you have never heard of and yet have linked to Ian Smarts blog in one of your posts.  I can accept that you havent heard of these people. Why would you - they dont represent you or sensible voices in your party I am sure, despite the fact that Ian Smart is rolled out onto the television to speak up for labour is unfortunate. They are people who call people like me nazis and say folk should be shot. Again and Again and again. 

However, In the same way that I am not Sean Clerkin, you are not these people either. But yet you demanded that I condemn the activities of people like Sean Clerkin who are not members of the SNP but somehow my responsibility anyway (?) and I did. But if I am responsible for His behaviour in a way that requires me to condemn it then surely you, are required to condemn the appalling behaviour of the worst of the opposition. The fact that you dont know the worst of what goes on by labour activists and commentators and yet loudly trumpet the worst that goes on by people who are not SNP members or even supporters makes me wonder at your knowledge of such things. I know exactly who these trouble makers are which is why i was able to provide you with information about those involved yesterday, I know what is going on with the SNP campaign but I also know the good and the bad of the Labour campaign and the tory campaign too. 


Finally your Glasgow Blog. Interestingly George Laird is as much of a numpty as Sean Clerkin. George Laird appears to have no connection with Either Glasgow university or human rights organisations and is a bit of a fatasist. We can argue about how bad the campaigns have been on both sides if you would like to do that. Natalie McGarry was followed home, to her parents, her whereabouts was tweeted by labour councillors and activists throughout both the referendum campaign and the election campaign = even to the extent that they took pictures of where she was sleeping when she wasnt at home. Natalie McGarry particularly has been subjected to heckling by male labour councillors at hustings where they take seats in the front row and shout over Natalie speaking and only Natalie speaking.  Much of what is written in that blog is lies and much is exaggeration. I have been very involved in a send off sexism campaign during this election and if you are interested in facts then pm me and ill go through the issues raised in the blog with you blow by blow. Im sure that would be seriously boring for everyone else which is why I really dont want to go down the route of your numpties are worse than our numpties here.  

Finally, You called me a fascist, you implied that being a member or supporter of  the SNP makes me, the other members and anyone voting for the SNP  fascist sympathisers. I think you should apologise for that but i guess  as you have said goodbye that wont be happening.

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## Keyser_soze

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpVJK_LtETo&app=desktop

Seems Mr Murphys heckler doesnt like him too much, hes got history for it .  Im not advocating violence but he is a cretin you really would love to put yer hands on and slap him. Is this your typical educated man ??

I find him embarrassing and his accent nauseating

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## rob murray

[QUOTE=squidge;1117890]


> Ok Rob  - lets make this clear to you 
> 
> I dont think that you want us all dead - just like you are not the same as Ian Smart or Jill Stephenson - both Labour activists and commentators who you say you have never heard of and yet have linked to Ian Smarts blog in one of your posts.  I can accept that you havent heard of these people. Why would you - they dont represent you or sensible voices in your party I am sure, despite the fact that Ian Smart is rolled out onto the television to speak up for labour is unfortunate. They are people who call people like me nazis and say folk should be shot. Again and Again and again. 
> 
> However, In the same way that I am not Sean Clerkin, you are not these people either. But yet you demanded that I condemn the activities of people like Sean Clerkin who are not members of the SNP but somehow my responsibility anyway (?) and I did. But if I am responsible for His behaviour in a way that requires me to condemn it then surely you, are required to condemn the appalling behaviour of the worst of the opposition. The fact that you dont know the worst of what goes on by labour activists and commentators and yet loudly trumpet the worst that goes on by people who are not SNP members or even supporters makes me wonder at your knowledge of such things. I know exactly who these trouble makers are which is why i was able to provide you with information about those involved yesterday, I know what is going on with the SNP campaign but I also know the good and the bad of the Labour campaign and the tory campaign too. 
> 
> 
> Finally your Glasgow Blog. Interestingly George Laird is as much of a numpty as Sean Clerkin. George Laird appears to have no connection with Either Glasgow university or human rights organisations and is a bit of a fatasist. We can argue about how bad the campaigns have been on both sides if you would like to do that. Natalie McGarry was followed home, to her parents, her whereabouts was tweeted by labour councillors and activists throughout both the referendum campaign and the election campaign = even to the extent that they took pictures of where she was sleeping when she wasnt at home. Natalie McGarry particularly has been subjected to heckling by male labour councillors at hustings where they take seats in the front row and shout over Natalie speaking and only Natalie speaking.  Much of what is written in that blog is lies and much is exaggeration. I have been very involved in a send off sexism campaign during this election and if you are interested in facts then pm me and ill go through the issues raised in the blog with you blow by blow. Im sure that would be seriously boring for everyone else which is why I really dont want to go down the route of your numpties are worse than our numpties here.  
> 
> Finally, You called me a fascist, you implied that being a member or supporter of  the SNP makes me, the other members and anyone voting for the SNP  fascist sympathisers. I think you should apologise for that but i guess  as you have said goodbye that wont be happening.


Ok I apologise for using a homogenous / generic statement, not all SNP members are f's however some behave rather badly, as dare I say it some in Labour do, lets face it theres no love between the 2 ..ever ! . Stakes are very high, the highest ever, so tempers do get raised, who do you believe, was the clip/s my son recieved ( quislings / we got yer photo we know who you are, from SNP activists etc ) "false / made up" I dont know but they sounded very real to me, the only way I would really know was if I was actually there, but the same can be said for you as well, how do you know half of whats going on , unless you are at an event, you must rely like me on media / social media communications, for information, they cant all be wrong surely or like everyone you filiter out "the noise" ? I am not a labour troll / blogger or whatever these people are called but a concerned citizen educated enough to see the real SNP agenda, election = independance vote re run and it sticks in my throat to be continually condesended, I do personally know SNP folk involved professionally in blogging, ie paid to monitor blogs and fire off retorts, false / or true, its a fact of modern politics / media. I also know SNP folk who are in dismay of being potentially hit with FFA. Serious sensible folk with a strong preferance for Devo Max not full tilt "home rule " on 2 unarguable grounds 1 Oil price 2 Abject failure of renewables. Theres the facts but Ive siad 1  / 2 before and what did I get back...."Im frothing at the mouth "...why because you couldnt answer / choose to turn a blind eye to the facts.  WHy dont you just say yes, your right, oil prices have collapsed and left a big hole in predicted finances and renewables is at best still in its infancy but we all hope that sooner or later tidal / wave energy will be succesful

----------


## squidge

> Ok I apologise for using a homogenous / generic statement, not all SNP members are f's however some behave rather badly, as dare I say it some in Labour do, lets face it theres no love between the 2 ..ever ! .


Thank you. 




> Stakes are very high, the highest ever, so tempers do get raised, who do you believe, was the clip/s my son recieved ( quislings / we got yer photo we know who you are, from SNP activists etc ) "false / made up" I dont know but they sounded very real to me, the only way I would really know was if I was actually there, but the same can be said for you as well, how do you know half of whats going on , unless you are at an event, you must rely like me on media / social media communications, for information, they cant all be wrong surely or like everyone you filiter out "the noise" ?


I have no idea what clip your son received but I would never condone anyone using words like quislings or nazi or fascist. Ever. How do I know whats going on? I do the research. I have a network of people who know more about this stuff than me and no - that isnt within the SNP. I am not simply focused on what is being said about the SNP though Rob. I have been involved in ensuring others get "called out" George Galloway for his appalling behaviour towards the Labour candidate in Bradford, the people targeting Ruth Davidson with homophobic and sexist comments, this type of behaviour is not simply reserved for those  belonging to some "nasty element" of the SNP, it occurs across the political spectrum to all of our shame. We need to ensure we dont allow ourselves to be whipped up into a frenzy by people who have dubious motives like Sean Clerkin or George Laird.  The Glasgow uni blog you quoted for instance suggests that Gail Lythgoe carried out a campaign of hate and yet what actually happened was that she organised a protest against a labour MP in 2011. Now you might not agree with her but its hardly a hate crime to protest about something. yesterday a wee lassie campaigning for the SNP was punched in the face by some blokes, at weekend the son of a tory candiate was assaulted, there was a court case about members of the SSP who were terrorised in their own home by some bloke yesterday seen waving a union flag at Nicola Sturgeon. There is a lunatic fringe to all our parties but I would never suggest that people supporting these political parties are the same as the thugs that behaved this way and it seemed that was what you were doing. I am sure that your temper is running high Rob but its not fair and its not right to say some of the things you did. 




> I am not a labour troll / blogger or whatever these people are called but a concerned citizen educated enough to see the real SNP agenda, election = independance vote re run and it sticks in my throat to be continually condesended, I do personally know SNP folk involved professionally in blogging, ie paid to monitor blogs and fire off retorts, false / or true, its a fact of modern politics / media. I also know SNP folk who are in dismay of being potentially hit with FFA. Serious sensible folk with a strong preferance for Devo Max not full tilt "home rule " on 2 unarguable grounds 1 Oil price 2 Abject failure of renewables. Theres the facts but Ive siad 1  / 2 before and what did I get back...."Im frothing at the mouth "...why because you couldnt answer / choose to turn a blind eye to the facts.  WHy dont you just say yes, your right, oil prices have collapsed and left a big hole in predicted finances and renewables is at best still in its infancy but we all hope that sooner or later tidal / wave energy will be succesful


I didnt respond to the energy stuff you posted because I was posting about the event yesterday morning which is what i felt you were frothing at the mouth about. However, you are right Rob, the oil price HAS collapsed and i am relieved as anyone else must be to see that it is starting to creep back up. However at the risk of opening up a discussion which i am not prepared to have AGAIN the financial case for independence was not as finely balanced on oil as you suggest and therefore the hole not as big as you might think. That is in the past though and We need to move forward. FFA is a completely different kettle of fish and will be much more complex and delicate to negotiate and implement if it is ever even possible. Surely we need to focus now on implementing the Smith Commission recommendations as soon as we can. 

I am though glad for your apology - thanks

----------


## rob murray

> Thank you. 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what clip your son received but I would never condone anyone using words like quislings or nazi or fascist. Ever. How do I know whats going on? I do the research. I have a network of people who know more about this stuff than me and no - that isnt within the SNP. I am not simply focused on what is being said about the SNP though Rob. I have been involved in ensuring others get "called out" George Galloway for his appalling behaviour towards the Labour candidate in Bradford, the people targeting Ruth Davidson with homophobic and sexist comments, this type of behaviour is not simply reserved for those  belonging to some "nasty element" of the SNP, it occurs across the political spectrum to all of our shame. We need to ensure we dont allow ourselves to be whipped up into a frenzy by people who have dubious motives like Sean Clerkin or George Laird.  The Glasgow uni blog you quoted for instance suggests that Gail Lythgoe carried out a campaign of hate and yet what actually happened was that she organised a protest against a labour MP in 2011. Now you might not agree with her but its hardly a hate crime to protest about something. yesterday a wee lassie campaigning for the SNP was punched in the face by some blokes, at weekend the son of a tory candiate was assaulted, there was a court case about members of the SSP who were terrorised in their own home by some bloke yesterday seen waving a union flag at Nicola Sturgeon. There is a lunatic fringe to all our parties but I would never suggest that people supporting these political parties are the same as the thugs that behaved this way and it seemed that was what you were doing. I am sure that your temper is running high Rob but its not fair and its not right to say some of the things you did. 
> 
> 
> 
> I didnt respond to the energy stuff you posted because I was posting about the event yesterday morning which is what i felt you were frothing at the mouth about. However, you are right Rob, the oil price HAS collapsed and i am relieved as anyone else must be to see that it is starting to creep back up. However at the risk of opening up a discussion which i am not prepared to have AGAIN the financial case for independence was not as finely balanced on oil as you suggest and therefore the hole not as big as you might think. That is in the past though and We need to move forward. FFA is a completely different kettle of fish and will be much more complex and delicate to negotiate and implement if it is ever even possible. Surely we need to focus now on implementing the Smith Commission recommendations as soon as we can. 
> ...


Apology...yes no probs, OIl : That is where we and many others  disagree....oil is at the heart of the issue and it will according to all predictions take ages to get back  to $100 plus a barrel, hence decimation of oil jobs in Aberdeen and across the Highlands. OIl price.....Surely the SNP's biggest economic blunder, go on admit it !  It is  not in the past, we deal with the here and now...and we face a great big hole : we have a small manufacturing base and rely on tourism, service industries, retail, spirt exports, I cannot see these sectors ( 3 being demand derived : poor demand = low demand = job losses ) plugging the fiscal gap I note you body swerved tidal / wave issues ( and I am not frothing at the mouth so dont use that expression please ! )  which I find unbelievable given it to was to form part of the New Scotland, rich with wave tidal renewable energy sales / r and d etc : FFA simple, the majproity coalition could abolish Barnet and tell scots get on with it...run yer own gaff...that could well happen under a tory alliance.ie  Call their bluff, if we get FFA, then forget all the guff about taking longer to tackle austerity being peddled by Sturgeon et all, it isnt going to happen, what will inevitably happen is austerity * 10 and cuts.

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## squidge

Thank you for sharing your opinion with me Rob. It is clear that we disagree on some issues and as I have said before I dont know enough about renewables to challenge anything you say or have a discussion with you about it. I have other issues which are more important to me. I know that I need to be more informed about energy and i have earmarked some time after the election to do something about that and im sure that you will be more than happy to help me do that then.  

 :Wink:

----------


## rob murray

> Thank you. 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what clip your son received but I would never condone anyone using words like quislings or nazi or fascist. Ever. How do I know whats going on? I do the research. I have a network of people who know more about this stuff than me and no - that isnt within the SNP. I am not simply focused on what is being said about the SNP though Rob. I have been involved in ensuring others get "called out" George Galloway for his appalling behaviour towards the Labour candidate in Bradford, the people targeting Ruth Davidson with homophobic and sexist comments, this type of behaviour is not simply reserved for those  belonging to some "nasty element" of the SNP, it occurs across the political spectrum to all of our shame. We need to ensure we dont allow ourselves to be whipped up into a frenzy by people who have dubious motives like Sean Clerkin or George Laird.  The Glasgow uni blog you quoted for instance suggests that Gail Lythgoe carried out a campaign of hate and yet what actually happened was that she organised a protest against a labour MP in 2011. Now you might not agree with her but its hardly a hate crime to protest about something. yesterday a wee lassie campaigning for the SNP was punched in the face by some blokes, at weekend the son of a tory candiate was assaulted, there was a court case about members of the SSP who were terrorised in their own home by some bloke yesterday seen waving a union flag at Nicola Sturgeon. There is a lunatic fringe to all our parties but I would never suggest that people supporting these political parties are the same as the thugs that behaved this way and it seemed that was what you were doing. I am sure that your temper is running high Rob but its not fair and its not right to say some of the things you did. 
> 
> 
> 
> I didnt respond to the energy stuff you posted because I was posting about the event yesterday morning which is what i felt you were frothing at the mouth about. However, you are right Rob, the oil price HAS collapsed and i am relieved as anyone else must be to see that it is starting to creep back up. However at the risk of opening up a discussion which i am not prepared to have AGAIN the financial case for independence was not as finely balanced on oil as you suggest and therefore the hole not as big as you might think. That is in the past though and We need to move forward. FFA is a completely different kettle of fish and will be much more complex and delicate to negotiate and implement if it is ever even possible. Surely we need to focus now on implementing the Smith Commission recommendations as soon as we can. 
> ...


There is a lunatic fringe to all our parties but I would never suggest that people supporting these political parties are the same as the thugs that behaved this way and it seemed that was what you were doing....

.theres no respite is there, so Im a thug am I, all 5 foot 6 and a quarter of me, I dont hide behind a blog name either, and am no thug, your proving that you filter out the "unwanted" stories eh.  if you want to know about me look me up on google ( under servgroup alness amongst others ) and linkedin, ( of courses it will all be propoganda and lies eh ! )  how am I to know who your networked into, Ive only got your word that your networked into cross party serious people, for all I know they could be nutters, afterall "Im a thug"  am I not ?  Oh have you seen the front page of The Herald today...more "lies".... Id bet would be your take on it.

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## rob murray

> Thank you for sharing your opinion with me Rob. It is clear that we disagree on some issues and as I have said before I dont know enough about renewables to challenge anything you say or have a discussion with you about it. I have other issues which are more important to me. I know that I need to be more informed about energy and i have earmarked some time after the election to do something about that and im sure that you will be more than happy to help me do that then.


Just google and check companies who are active in EMEC http://www.emec.org.uk/  the test centre for tidal / wave energy of the Orkneys, where all r / d developments are carried out and track developments through the press, theres only one project at the test stage prior to scaling up and thats Meygen. Dont believe a word printed in any so called energy supplements, mostly misleading garbage talking up developments to try and secure continue funded.

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## Rheghead

> Apology...yes no probs, OIl : That is where we and many others  disagree....oil is at the heart of the issue and it will according to all predictions take ages to get back  to $100 plus a barrel, hence decimation of oil jobs in Aberdeen and across the Highlands. OIl price.....Surely the SNP's biggest economic blunder, go on admit it !  It is  not in the past, we deal with the here and now...and we face a great big hole : we have a small manufacturing base and rely on tourism, service industries, retail, spirt exports, I cannot see these sectors ( 3 being demand derived : poor demand = low demand = job losses ) plugging the fiscal gap I note you body swerved tidal / wave issues ( and I am not frothing at the mouth so dont use that expression please ! )  which I find unbelievable given it to was to form part of the New Scotland, rich with wave tidal renewable energy sales / r and d etc : FFA simple, the majproity coalition could abolish Barnet and tell scots get on with it...run yer own gaff...that could well happen under a tory alliance.ie  Call their bluff, if we get FFA, then forget all the guff about taking longer to tackle austerity being peddled by Sturgeon et all, it isnt going to happen, what will inevitably happen is austerity * 10 and cuts.


How can the oil price be SNP's economic blunder?  Even taking into account the fall of oil prices, about 50%, an independent Scotland would still get a better deal when the tax benefits are spread over 5 million rather than 60 million.  That is just good maths not poor economics.  Apart from that, oil prices have recovered by 25% since March and are now up to ~$67

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## rob murray

> How can the oil price be SNP's economic blunder?  Even taking into account the fall of oil prices, about 50%, an independent Scotland would still get a better deal when the tax benefits are spread over 5 million rather than 60 million.  That is just good maths not poor economics.  Apart from that, oil prices have recovered by 25% since March and are now up to ~$67


AH come on...the SNP trumpeted / budgeted at $110 a barrel...its not their fault that the price collapsed, but it did, and they DID say $110.......  I wont be drawn on the rest of your post.

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## squidge

> There is a lunatic fringe to all our parties but I would never suggest that people supporting these political parties are the same as the thugs that behaved this way and it seemed that was what you were doing....
> 
> .theres no respite is there, so Im a thug am I, all 5 foot 6 and a quarter of me, I dont hide behind a blog name either, and am no thug, your proving that you filter out the "unwanted" stories eh.  if you want to know about me look me up on google ( under servgroup alness amongst others ) and linkedin, ( of courses it will all be propoganda and lies eh ! )  how am I to know who your networked into, Ive only got your word that your networked into cross party serious people, for all I know they could be nutters, afterall "Im a thug"  am I not ?  Oh have you seen the front page of The Herald today...more "lies".... Id bet would be your take on it.


Jeez Rob - you dont give up. I do not think you are a thug!  I know you use your own name and I dont. I have reasons for that which are perfectly normal and proper but my identity is not a secret and I am happy to share it with anyone who wants to know and sends me a PM. Many of the people posting here know exactly who I am and even Golach has met the real me! If you ever cleared out your inbox you would know my name too as I have been trying to send you a pm all day! I know who you are too Rob,we have actually met a few times many years ago and I thought you were a nice chatty sort of guy. Thats how i know that you know WAY more than me about energy and renewables and why eventually when you have stopped being so argumentative and I have time I would like to hear what you have to say.

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## rob murray

> Jeez Rob - you dont give up. I do not think you are a thug!  I know you use your own name and I dont. I have reasons for that which are perfectly normal and proper but my identity is not a secret and I am happy to share it with anyone who wants to know and sends me a PM. Many of the people posting here know exactly who I am and even Golach has met the real me! If you ever cleared out your inbox you would know my name too as I have been trying to send you a pm all day! I know who you are too Rob,we have actually met a few times many years ago and I thought you were a nice chatty sort of guy. Thats how i know that you know WAY more than me about energy and renewables and why eventually when you have stopped being so argumentative and I have time I would like to hear what you have to say.


Squidge, I cant access my inbox, comes up with an error message, will keep trying though, I still am, usually, a nice chatty guy,I have to be in business yer bust if your arguementative lol lol  its just that politics makes my blood boil lol lol makes me arguementative, suppose thats the nature of the beast, one of my best pals is a life long SNP party member and is an oil economist but as an economist Im afraid he see's big holes all over the joint. He is being shunned by the party as he is off message.....the guy is very well educated ( 2 degrees ) and has no ego, the type of bloke who gets dumped on but gets on with things. I listen to him as he is a voice of reason and  he has been  in despair. Youve got me wondering now on your real identity...yer not by any chance Beyonce ? ( met her a couple o times lol lol lol ).......Renewables again my mate and another Thurso based friend keep me updated on all issues, need to stick close for business reasons, thats why its disappointing nothing really has happened, that and the lack of jobs created.

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## squidge

Beyonce??? Hmm I wish. Economics is a complex area and there are as many people who say one thing as another. As a lay person it is often very difficult to make sense out of the stuff you read and hear. I would be interested to talk to your friend about his views. Its interesting to say that your friend has been dumped cos he is off message. Jim and Margaret Cuthbert make similar allegations as they supported Scottish Independence. It makes it really difficult to decide what makes sense and what doesnt but like i say After the election for me Im afraid. Other issues are more important.

It now appears that at least one or possibly two of the people taking part in the events yesterday were members of the SNP. Only one has been named. The SNP has acted straight away to withdraw their membership which is as it should be. This Scottish Resistance group is run by idiots for idiots and Im glad they are no longer part of the party.

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## rob murray

> Beyonce??? Hmm I wish. Economics is a complex area and there are as many people who say one thing as another. As a lay person it is often very difficult to make sense out of the stuff you read and hear. I would be interested to talk to your friend about his views. Its interesting to say that your friend has been dumped cos he is off message. Jim and Margaret Cuthbert make similar allegations as they supported Scottish Independence. It makes it really difficult to decide what makes sense and what doesnt but like i say After the election for me Im afraid. Other issues are more important.
> 
> It now appears that at least one or possibly two of the people taking part in the events yesterday were members of the SNP. Only one has been named. The SNP has acted straight away to withdraw their membership which is as it should be. This Scottish Resistance group is run by idiots for idiots and Im glad they are no longer part of the party.


My mate had the temerity to challenge austerity figures / factoring in oil depression and recovery times / times involved in bringing new fields on stream and the appetite and costs in doing so, basically they are all over inflated, his brothers have high oil jobs in ABerdeen as well, so he has both anecdotal and imperical data. Economics is sometimes called the dark arts but you can cut through the rocket science, as its a social science that attempts to predict what people make and consume within money systems thats it. Major differences lie in how the system is regulated or not as the case maybe. All parties have nutter fringes, labour was nearly destroyed in the early to mid 80's by militant, the birth of New Labour was not Blair it stems from Kinnock kicking militant out of Labour. Rememebr the famous speech....".the groteque spectacle of a Labour..yes a labour council ( Liverpool / Red Hatton ) hiring taxis to deliver redundancy notices to its own workers.....

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## Keyser_soze

Must be good to be in a position where if there is anything bad about your party or it's supporters, you can just deny it regardless of evidence and that's the end of it.Like one of her members using sectarian language and denying it a) was sectarian and b) relevant since it was said in the past.Like supporters aggressively verbally abusing Labour party members, members with clear SNP paraphernalia on their clothing, denied by Sturgeon as being SNP supporters.I utterly hate what they've done to this country.

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## golach

All named and shamed here and displaying snp colours
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2...tland-32595499

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## dozy

The guys that are mentioned as the nutters that took part in the Glasgow nonsense used false names to joint all the political parties, funny that we have "Jim the Jester "shouted out "it's the SNP at it again" before he knew their names. We've been here before with Jim and the Eggs fiasco ,when Jims ESP allowed him to duck from a egg that was thrown from behind. He's a out an out liar and one of the most evil mouthed men in politics.

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## rob murray

> The guys that are mentioned as the nutters that took part in the Glasgow nonsense used false names to joint all the political parties, funny that we have "Jim the Jester "shouted out "it's the SNP at it again" before he knew their names. We've been here before with Jim and the Eggs fiasco ,when Jims ESP allowed him to duck from a egg that was thrown from behind. He's a out an out liar and one of the most evil mouthed men in politics.


 And you know JM ? Enough to know without a shadow of doubt that he is an evil mouthed man ? Sounded fine and reasonable on TV debates...I take it you watched them...you must rate UKIP above poor Jim....

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## rob murray

> Must be good to be in a position where if there is anything bad about your party or it's supporters, you can just deny it regardless of evidence and that's the end of it.Like one of her members using sectarian language and denying it a) was sectarian and b) relevant since it was said in the past.Like supporters aggressively verbally abusing Labour party members, members with clear SNP paraphernalia on their clothing, denied by Sturgeon as being SNP supporters.I utterly hate what they've done to this country.


There can be no denial that Scotland is a divided country post referendum and will be after Friday, most people have stories / anecdotes on troubles between "so called" SNP / Labour extremists, this isnt going to go away and we face being a divided nation, Jim Murphys reasonable request for a referendum moratoriam for 5 years, let things settle, is a good shout, but evidence suggests that Sturgeon and Alexi arenae gonna let it go...they'll get their way and to hell with the consequences.

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## scorrie

I had a quick scan through the James Scott, Scottish Patriots Blogspot site.

There isn't actually a lot to see there unless you are a fan of hanging onto the injustice of William Wallace's murder in 1305,  or remembering the Brave Scots slaughtered at Culloden.

Talk about not moving on in life. 

I find it a bit sad, this notion of Scottish Resistance so many years on and I find the man a sad and deluded individual.

You can be a proud Scot without wanting to dig up some English King, several hundred years on, and defecating down his neck.

Why can't these people just sit at home and watch their Braveheart video over and over, with a box of kleenex to hand to mop up whichever emotional outpouring erupts first?

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## squidge

> There can be no denial that Scotland is a divided country post referendum and will be after Friday, most people have stories / anecdotes on troubles between "so called" SNP / Labour extremists, this isnt going to go away and we face being a divided nation, Jim Murphys reasonable request for a referendum moratoriam for 5 years, let things settle, is a good shout, but evidence suggests that Sturgeon and Alexi arenae gonna let it go...they'll get their way and to hell with the consequences.


I think Scotland seems very divided if you spend your time on social media. However look to this conversation, are we really personally divided? 

How many of you have stopped being friends with someone because they voted YES or NO? How many of you have stopped loving someone because the are a labour/SNP supporter. There are arguments, disagreements, but have politics really affects your relationships with your friends, family and neighbours or workmates? I doubt it. Places like this allow us to say things without consideration for other people, because we really don't know each other the normal rules of relationships don't exist. 

Families and friends aren't splitting because of political disagreements. Scotland isn't a divisive place to live because we disagree on who should represent us. If you have decided that you can't be friends with someone because they support an independent Scotland or because they are a Tory or because they will vote labour or lib dem then that says more about you than it does about Scotland!

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## rob murray

> I think Scotland seems very divided if you spend your time on social media. However look to this conversation, are we really personally divided? 
> 
> How many of you have stopped being friends with someone because they voted YES or NO? How many of you have stopped loving someone because the are a labour/SNP supporter. There are arguments, disagreements, but have politics really affects your relationships with your friends, family and neighbours or workmates? I doubt it. Places like this allow us to say things without consideration for other people, because we really don't know each other the normal rules of relationships don't exist. 
> 
> Families and friends aren't splitting because of political disagreements. Scotland isn't a divisive place to live because we disagree on who should represent us. If you have decided that you can't be friends with someone because they support an independent Scotland or because they are a Tory or because they will vote labour or lib dem then that says more about you than it does about Scotland!


Well thats your take on it, I obviously differ, why resort to more personal opinionated stuff on me ie "that says more about you than it does about Scotland" ! does it indeed, its not just me who holds this opinion better educated poeple tha me have depicted a sea change, I stand by every word...Labour / SNP hate each other politically for historic reasons and there is personal animosity kicking about post referedum that wasnt there before. Keep trying to have the last word on things, trying to bore me off the forum, wear me down with your opinions ! You asked for an apology as regards a post I made, I was man enough to reconsider what I wrote and thought that I was being to generic / homogenous with my posting, so I apologised....I now await your apology.  WHere I do agree with you is the use of social media which encourages people to hide behind by names and not always, but sometimes...spout of vicous ill informed garbage which they wouldnt have the guts to do in the real world. My inbox is now working and is empty so feel free to PM me I await with great anticipation !

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## squidge

Rob, The whole post was a generic one addressing the points that you raised  and I'm sorry if you felt it was an insult slur or dig at you. I thought the question "how many of you" which I started the post would have made it clear that I had opened the discussion out. You have said several times that labour/SNP hate each other. I'm sorry if this disappoints you but I don't hate labour. I'm disappointed in them,  frustrated by them, angered by them but I don't hate them or you. I'm not even trying to have the last word Rob, just joining in the conversation although you doing the shouty thing every time I say anything is a bit exhausting. Still tomorrow it will all be over eh  :Smile:

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## rob murray

> Rob, The whole post was a generic one addressing the points that you raised  and I'm sorry if you felt it was an insult slur or dig at you. I thought the question "how many of you" which I started the post would have made it clear that I had opened the discussion out. You have said several times that labour/SNP hate each other. I'm sorry if this disappoints you but I don't hate labour. I'm disappointed in them,  frustrated by them, angered by them but I don't hate them or you. I'm not even trying to have the last word Rob, just joining in the conversation although you doing the shouty thing every time I say anything is a bit exhausting. Still tomorrow it will all be over eh


Squidge...accepted...tomorrow the vote closes...on Friday the fun begings eh !

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## Fulmar

Phew, glad to read that you too have settled it!
I agree with Squidge and also, that we have to all work together, both nationally within these isles and internationally, whatever government is formed post Thursday. There are far too many problems facing this old planet and humanity to do otherwise, some man-made and others not and at the bottom of it all, I am optimistic that everyone does know this (apart from a minority of eejits who exist everywhere) and wants the best for the next generation. That is what I think, at least and also, that we should never forget how fortunate we are to live in a country where we can debate and squabble freely and have our
 right to do so enshrined in law. It could be so much worse and in most places, it is!

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## rob murray

> Phew, glad to read that you too have settled it!
> I agree with Squidge and also, that we have to all work together, both nationally within these isles and internationally, whatever government is formed post Thursday. There are far too many problems facing this old planet and humanity to do otherwise, some man-made and others not and at the bottom of it all, I am optimistic that everyone does know this (apart from a minority of eejits who exist everywhere) and wants the best for the next generation. That is what I think, at least and also, that we should never forget how fortunate we are to live in a country where we can debate and squabble freely and have our
>  right to do so enshrined in law. It could be so much worse and in most places, it is!


Agreed, thanks

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## Bystander1

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nt-ruckus.html.
OK - I ken its the Daily Mail but it looks awfy like Nicola tells lees when it suits her

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## BetterTogether

Setting the usual org bickering aside which does nothing for healthy debate of the issues that matter but seems to be systemically designed just to agitate posters who dare raise their head to discuss anything other than official SNP party line.

Personally I'd like to see anyone who has a vested interest in working for any political party or regularly holds meetings on behalf of political parties made to identify themselves as such instead of this hiding behind anonymity. Activists and trolls are the bane of political discussion online.

 It would appear the usual SNP tactics are at play, first deny the people are anything to do with them, then feign shock and disdain followed by ( note ) suspension from the party.

 Now if Nicola Sturgeon was truly serious about this type of behaviour being unacceptable they would simple eject them from the party and be done with it. 

Instead all we see is the typical suspension, same as the smith commission burners last year, who then get rapidly reinstated shortly after. 

Now it's very easy to level accusations at the fringe and play the he said she said they are no better game, but what I do not see is the SNP setting an example of how to behave.

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## squidge

Gosh? Who here has a vested interest in working on behalf of a political party and who is holding regular meetings on behalf of a political party? What does a "vested interest" actually mean? 

Have you asked these people who they are? introduced yourself? Been polite? Perhaps if you introduce yourself they will do likewise? Be sure to let us all know

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## BetterTogether

A brief response would be something along the lines of.

For instance let's just  say if you'd been chairing a meeting in Thurso for the yes campaign last year and had been regularly holding meetings all through the referendum campaign .

Then that would make you above the average lay person and someone who would by any normal person to be a political activist and someone would with a vested interest. 

No doubt there will be the usual denials and obfuscation and attempts to muddy the water but someone who did hold meetings would not be considered just a normal voter.

I would also like to add I've met you on a number of occasions and should be amazed if you'd denied that you're a political activist that would be akin to Bruce Wayne denying he's batman.

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## squidge

OOhhhhh you mean me? :Grin: 

Well Better Together Its never been any secret that I held meetings for Women for Independence|Independence for Women. I think i posted that I was doing so on this actual board! Im very happy for people to know that i have and continue to be involved in that organisation. Which incidentally is cross party including SNP, SSP, Green and people who are not members of a political party. Im currently working on issues arounbd women in the Justice System and a review of the sanctions regime. 

Of course as I am sure you know WFI isnt a "political party". I have never hosted a meeting for a political party. As a member of the SNP I do absolutely have a vested interest in seeing the SNP elected to as many seats as possible. Is that a surprise too? Is there really anyone here who doesnt know that I support the SNP?  I am however not standing as a candidate, dont hold any office, am not an election agent or a polling agent, not paid for anything I do and therefore not sure what more of a vested interest I have than any other voter or party member of any political party that would mean i should announce my name to the world. Am I a "political activist"? Absolutely I am. I have done a few street stalls here and delivered a few leaflets and knocked on a few doors. Nowhere near as much as i would have liked to do though. Is that a bad thing?

And whilst we are on the subject lets talk about having a user name. Squidge has been my user name on this board and in other places for years. I have never changed it nor posted with another identity probably not like you. There are hundreds of people that i know and who know me and  have met me so you arent alone. I choose to have a user name for a whole range of reasons. If there is anyone wants to know my name and who I am then they can send me a pm and introduce themselves. But you know what? No one is that interested because although YOU seem to think i am particularly important - noone else does and I certainly dont. Of course as you "have met me on a number of occasions " then you have me at a disadvantage because I dont know who you are. You dont seem to be for telling either. So who's hiding then Better Together?

Edit - and you know what...  there is something a bit creepy about peoples insisting that any of us who dont use our real names should "identify ourselves". Especially for women, as it is often something which we do to keep ourselves safe online. Perhaps thats your reason too Better Together -  keeping yourself safe on line or perhaps there are other reasons for you - whatever they may be you are perfectly entitled to keep your own identity under wraps - even whilst demanding i do otherwise. Also if you have met me why on earth didn't you introduce yourself as Better Together? That's a bit strange

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