# General > Biodiversity >  Dead seals

## Seabird

There is an on going scientfic investigation into the massive decline in Common Seals around the UK coast.
 If you see a dead common seal adult or pup can you PM me or contact the British Divers Marine Live Rescue so the animal can be checked.
01825 765546  
We are intersted in looking at seals that are best described as fresh dead and are suitable for necropsy.

Many Thanks

Colin

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## Jenni

Came across a dead seal pup on Thurso beach this evening. It was not far from the Pavillion Restaurant.

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## GLENELG

Never seen so mutch seals around the Caithness coast last year,far far to many.

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## GLENELG

Never seen so many seals around .From Staxigoe Harbour to Noss Head there were over one hundred Seals.

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## Aaldtimer

> Never seen so mutch seals around the Caithness coast last year,far far to many.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing you're a fisherman eh? ::

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## Amy-Winehouse

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing you're a fisherman eh?


He might be, I was  and hes right there have never been so many seals- little wonder theres no fish left in the sea.
 When i started fishing back in early 80`s we`d be lucky to see a seal a month, when I left it in 2002 there were 10 -15 of them every time we`d haul the trawl, so I dont know how you think theres a decline in them mate ?

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## Kenn

Most of the seals you will be seeing are Atlantic Greys not Common Seals and their numbers are merely getting back to where they were after the virus that struck down so many a few years back.
Seabird was asking specifically about Common Seals which despite their name are not common at all.

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## GLENELG

I am Aaldtimer,same here years agoe never hardley seen a seal.Iam at the creels and you want till see the state the ropes were in on the surface full of knots they are even taking the bait out of the creels,we never had this trouble before .  There only three things our Goverment cares about at that three things start with an S,        Seals Salmon and Spaniards.

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## Thumper

What utter rubbish!Seals do not over fish the seas-HUMANS do!Seals take what they need to survive and only that,humans over fish,go over quota and then dump the dead fish they cant land back in the sea so if anyone is to blame for low fish stocks its the fishermen not the seals!Oh! and seals LIVE in the sea and always have so i reckon they have more right to the fish than any man or woman who wants to make a living out taking fish out of the sea,but I dont expect any fisherman to agree with me so heyho!x

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## Stack Rock

> Never seen so many seals around .From Staxigoe Harbour to Noss Head there were over one hundred Seals.


I can confirm this - I've counted over 100 on the rocks just north of Staxigoe harbour several times last year. The resident population at this spot is somewhat less at about 30 - 40 all year with other groups from here to Ackergill.

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## Thumper

The reason you are seeing higher numbers around at the moment is that seals return year after year to the same place to breed x

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## Seabird

Its always the same, SOME fishermen blame seals.
Common seals have in Scottish waters declined 40% over the last 10 years Greys have increased by about 2.5% a year.
There is a problem with cod worm that fish get from seal droppings thats not new.
Birds eat fish so do Dolphins, Whales, Harbour Porpoise, otters and other fish.
At the moment due to the decline in some seabirds, common seals, most cetaceans, some preditory fish, the overall picture would suggest animals that need fish to survive are eating less than ever before. Seals dont just eat fish they eat lots of sea creatures that are not hunted by fishermen.
Does this mean we keep culling until we eliminate all the above ? 
On the plus side shark numbers have been desimated by fishermen so have the tuna to the point of near extinction of some species of tuna. These all ate other fish, this has not improved fish stocks.
Human fishing methods have improved to the point that if there were no controls in place some fish stock would have been depleted to the point that it would have been pointless taking a boat out.
No action was taken to stop the corporate organisation building large trawlers that can sweep up a mile long shoal of mackeral in a single shoot of a net,(shown on trawlermen).
This type of fishing has led to smaller boats going out of business. The same effect occures when large supermarket set up in a town, small shops go bust.
There are a lot of fish dumped because trawler have caught it's limit of a species or they are under size, that can be blamed on the E.E.C regulations. But fish are also dumped when a skipper finds a more valuable species and needs the space. It's not illegal to do this unless you are in Norwegion waters. From a moral point of view it's disgusting, but lets be honest if you are a struggling fishermen you will do anything to stay in business.
Fishermen, conservationist all dislike the fish quota system.
Some Fishermen wont accept the fact that fishermen created their own problem and there is little point in trying to point the finger at something else. Sustainable fish stock are needed, you can only have that when you take less then what can be replaced each year.
No one in the uk would starve if there were no fish to be had, unlike some other countries.
The young fishermen of today are paying the tab for their forebearers who fished in the sixties and seventies who took more out than could be replaced each year. 
There is little point arguing about the issues, just look on the internet and get the answers there.
You can never change the mind of people who have fixed or bigotry minds who don't want to hear the truth.
Colin

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## Kenn

Well said Seabird.......................

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## Thumper

GREAT post Seabird and very correct too!I couldnt have put it better myself so well done to you! x

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## cazmanian_minx

Well said, Colin.

Dead seal pup on Armadale beach, but unfortunately not much use to you - the head has been eaten already.  Think it's a grey, anyway, from the size.

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## cazmanian_minx

Oh great - just as I was typing that, senior dog started making ralphing sounds and I now have dead seal pup vomit on the landing   ::  ::

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## Seabird

> Oh great - just as I was typing that, senior dog started making ralphing sounds and I now have dead seal pup vomit on the landing


Yuk ! dogs never seem to know whats bad for them. I hope the dog has recovered and its vacs are up to date.

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## Anji

> Oh great - just as I was typing that, senior dog started making ralphing sounds and I now have dead seal pup vomit on the landing


 
Diet tip for the New Year - print that off and tape it to the fridge door!

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## cazmanian_minx

> Yuk ! dogs never seem to know whats bad for them. I hope the dog has recovered and its vacs are up to date.


She's fine - she re-ate it  ::  and it stayed down the second time!  Had her boosters in November and is wormed regularly due to a frequent diet of sheep droppings, so I'm not too worried.

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## nirofo

> I am Aaldtimer,same here years agoe never hardley seen a seal.Iam at the creels and you want till see the state the ropes were in on the surface full of knots they are even taking the bait out of the creels,we never had this trouble before . There only three things our Goverment cares about at that three things start with an S, Seals Salmon and Spaniards.


The number of creels around the coast has become so overcrowded that it's almost impossible to find an area where there are none, it's little wonder they are fouling the seals going about their legitimate business of fishing for survival. I do wonder however just how long the crabs and lobsters can survive with this mass onslaught of every conceivable nook and cranny of the sea bed where they live and sometimes stay alive long enough to breed. 20 years ago there were just a few crab potters putting out single pots here and there, now it's on an industrial scale with long strings of pots many 100s of yards long everywhere. Who cares about conservation when theres £££££ to be made at someone or something elses expense, who needs seals and seabirds anyway? One of the strange reasons you're seeing seals all around the coast is that that's where they live and it's the only place now where they can be sure of finding a few fish to survive on, nearly all the fish further out have been fished out, not by seals but by greedy fishermen.  I see the trawlers are fishing close inshore again, got to find that extra pound somewhere I suppose, where's the fishery protection vessel when you need it.  Maybe we should open a sea fare supermarket with special access for the seals, that way they can buy their own fish without taking the bread and butter from the fishermens mouths !!!

_nirofo_.

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## Seabird

Nice one Nirofo. 
I can back up what you say regards the number of pots being put down.
I was speaking to a person engaged in creeling, and they said " we are having to put out twice as many pots to catch the same amount as last year" i was told that 2 years ago. That has got to be a sign of over fishing. Will they never learn ?
I have every respect for the hard working fisher folk, who go out in all weathers to supply us with the bounty from the sea. Lets be honest  most of us loved cod and chips.
But there has got to be a balance struck, you cannot take more out than can be replaced.
I think we've all heard the stories of the sea being filled with so many fish you could scoop them out with a hand held net. Silver Darlings they were called, an industry and way of life was built round them in Caithness. Most of the small surviving Harbours are used by creelers, lets hope they dont go the way of the herring fishermen.
The warning signs are flashing. 

Colin

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## Thumper

> The number of creels around the coast has become so overcrowded that it's almost impossible to find an area where there are none, it's little wonder they are fouling the seals going about their legitimate business of fishing for survival. I do wonder however just how long the crabs and lobsters can survive with this mass onslaught of every conceivable nook and cranny of the sea bed where they live and sometimes stay alive long enough to breed. 20 years ago there were just a few crab potters putting out single pots here and there, now it's on an industrial scale with long strings of pots many 100s of yards long everywhere. Who cares about conservation when theres £££££ to be made at someone or something elses expense, who needs seals and seabirds anyway? One of the strange reasons you're seeing seals all around the coast is that that's where they live and it's the only place now where they can be sure of finding a few fish to survive on, nearly all the fish further out have been fished out, not by seals but by greedy fishermen.  I see the trawlers are fishing close inshore again, got to find that extra pound somewhere I suppose, where's the fishery protection vessel when you need it.  Maybe we should open a sea fare supermarket with special access for the seals, that way they can buy their own fish without taking the bread and butter from the fishermens mouths !!!
> 
> _nirofo_.


Great post niforo-pity the fishermen didnt think like you do!Welcome to the real world guys-its overfishing thats the problem not the seals x

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## Amy-Winehouse

> The reason you are seeing higher numbers around at the moment is that seals return year after year to the same place to breed x


 
So explain to us why these creatures are there all year round then ????

As I said earlier in this thread the seal population has mushroomed in the last 20 years, I had first hand experience of it. I dont dislike Seals they have a right to be there but they destroy fish stocks , dont kid yourselves that they dont. 

As for fishermen, how many of these beleagered souls are actually left in a job ??? When I started fishing thwere were 15,000 of us, now I think theres less than 2,000 in Scotland. De-commisioning got many owners out of the brown stuff but 1000s of us were left unemployed or moved on to other things.
Over fishing !!! Hardly anyone does it now.

Creels. Lobstermen had their best year in about 2 decades this year, but as per normal the robbers who buy the damn things wouldnt give us more than £7 a kilo , while the kitchens of London charge £50-£60 a tail .

People that dont work with the sea , you should listen to those that do.

Rant over

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## nirofo

> So explain to us why these creatures are there all year round then ????
> 
> As I said earlier in this thread the seal population has mushroomed in the last 20 years, I had first hand experience of it. I dont dislike Seals they have a right to be there but they destroy fish stocks , dont kid yourselves that they dont. 
> 
> As for fishermen, how many of these beleagered souls are actually left in a job ??? When I started fishing thwere were 15,000 of us, now I think theres less than 2,000 in Scotland. De-commisioning got many owners out of the brown stuff but 1000s of us were left unemployed or moved on to other things.
> Over fishing !!! Hardly anyone does it now.
> 
> Creels. Lobstermen had their best year in about 2 decades this year, but as per normal the robbers who buy the damn things wouldnt give us more than £7 a kilo , while the kitchens of London charge £50-£60 a tail .
> 
> ...


 
Like I said earlier, and someone else mentioned in a previous post, the 2 main reasons you're seeing more seals around the coast is because.

1) They are slowly coming back to the numbers they were at before
disease decimated them, it's doubtfull they'll ever reach previous
numbers for many reasons.

2) Massive overfishing has seriously decimated fish stocks in the areas
where the seals used to feed, the only areas they can reliably find
enough fish to survive on is close inshore where the trawlers don't
normally fish. I said normally because they're not officially allowed 
to fish close inshore, but that doesn't seem to stop them does it.

Predatory animals are by their own nature self regulating, that is if they are left alone they will find their own natural population levels based on available habitat and the amount of prey in that habitat, seals don't destroy fish stocks, man does. If the status quo is altered through mans, (the fishermens) interference, then the predator, in this case the seals, will need to make adjustments in order to re-establish it's territory and food supply to maintain it's own survival. Of course you could wipe out the seals, that might prolong the overfishing by fishermen for a short while, but then eventually, (not too long) the fish stocks will also be wiped out! You would then be left with a situation where you had neither seals nor fish, *happy world isn't it*.

Incidentally, if the market wasn't so flooded with crabs and lobsters you might get a better price, but then if you got a better price you'd want to catch more crabs and lobsters, *funny world isn't it.*

_nirofo_.

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## Amy-Winehouse

> Like I said earlier, and someone else mentioned in a previous post, the 2 main reasons you're seeing more seals around the coast is because.
> 
> 1) They are slowly coming back to the numbers they were at before
> disease decimated them, it's doubtfull they'll ever reach previous
> numbers for many reasons.
> 
> 2) Massive overfishing has seriously decimated fish stocks in the areas
> where the seals used to feed, the only areas they can reliably find
> enough fish to survive on is close inshore where the trawlers don't
> ...


Who are these Trawlers you speak of ?? Where are they fishing ? There isnt to my knowledge a 6 mile ban on fishing inshore around Caithness just an exclusion of Sinclair Bay & Sandside Bay

It sounds as if you want a total ban on Fishing, so more unemployment beckons these men if you have your way? Remember the majority of Fishermen have cars mortgages families to feed & businesses to run so they need to catch enough for a living every week.

How do you explain Sammy the seal & his 12 mates 24 miles east of Wick waiting on the net to come up then ? The Seal population has grown significantly in the last 20 years- they are everywhere not just during breeding season- Ive seen it myself

The massive overfishing was done in the 70`s & 80`s and up to the end of the 90`s, It is nearly impossible to get away with black fish now, the rules & regulations on the remaining trawlers in the Scottish fleet is forcing even more to give up the job. The industry is heavilly policed by the Government & men have been put in jail for breaking the rules, The fishermen cannot land more than their quotas(which are set out by scientists who probably know more about the sea than you & I) So wouldnt you agree they are going in right direction ? 

If not there wont be any trawlers left in 15 years time

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## Kenn

You say that it is and I quote, "Nearly impossible to get away with black fish," Amy, does that mean that there are those who given the oppurtunity still try to flout the rules?
Whilst appreciating that seals eat fish,and that some of the rules thought up by idiots in Bruselles are stupid to say the least,seals themselves are part of the marine food chain.Rant at the politicians by all means if you disagree with quotas and what it has done to the fishing industry but blaming seals hardly seems accurate or just.Yes, there numbers have increased and we now have a relatively stable population and as pointed out previously, they have merely recovered their numbers over the last few years.
Left to it's own devices nature usually has a way of balancing things but unfortunately mankind seems to think that it can ignore basic natural laws, everything is finite.

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## Amy-Winehouse

> You say that it is and I quote, "Nearly impossible to get away with black fish," Amy, does that mean that there are those who given the oppurtunity still try to flout the rules?
> Whilst appreciating that seals eat fish,and that some of the rules thought up by idiots in Bruselles are stupid to say the least,seals themselves are part of the marine food chain.Rant at the politicians by all means if you disagree with quotas and what it has done to the fishing industry but blaming seals hardly seems accurate or just.Yes, there numbers have increased and we now have a relatively stable population and as pointed out previously, they have merely recovered their numbers over the last few years.
> Left to it's own devices nature usually has a way of balancing things but unfortunately mankind seems to think that it can ignore basic natural laws, everything is finite.


Ok then, It is impossible to land black fish in 2010 Lizz. The boat s that still remain in the white fish industry have tracking devices onboard so that if someone reports in that they are in a certain place , those in the office can pinpoint them exactly to see whos telling porkies. It is also for quota tallying up I should think.
Also Trawlermen & seine net men have to land in designated ports, IE Scrabster, Buckie, FraserBurgh Peterhead Lochinver KLB Eyemouth are the main landing ports with Troon Oban & Mallaig. The reason for these designated ports is there are fisheries officers based in those ports who have to be present whilst landing their catches.

If the boats came in during the night , the F.O is supposed to be present, they couldnt come into Wick and land during the night like so many did during the 90`s so Black fish is a thing of the past.

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## Kenn

Thank you for clarifying the matter so well, much appreciated.

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