# General > General >  say no to asda

## thickrodney

just informing e locals about walmart in case u mist it.

http://www.asdawatch.org/issues.asp

can't find caithness in this one
http://forum.wakeupwalmart.com/forum...3ec56861d11dcf

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## Phoebus_Apollo

Say no to Asda..say goodbye to the local ecomony...say no to cheaper petrol...say no to more choice...say no to 200 jobs... ::

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## Rheghead

How worse can it get for Caithness without a big shake up?  Shops closing all the time and that is without ASDA's/Tesco's input.  A shirt can cost £10 more in Thurso/Wick than it will in Inverness.  ASDA will make local shops competitive.  We deserve what we deserve.

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## Moonboots

His username says it all...lol

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## thickrodney

> Say no to Asda..say goodbye to the local ecomony...say no to cheaper petrol...say no to more choice...say no to 200 jobs...


i am just pointing out the other side of the arguement 

"Wal-Mart's power has come at a heavy price for its employees, the environment and the local communities where it operates. Wal-Mart has developed such a poor reputation in the States that it has been forced to build a multi-million dollar public relations unit to deal with the criticism. Wal-Mart has been accused of exploiting workers in some of the poorest countries in the world through its pursuit of "Always Low Prices", while the company has gained a reputation for being ruthlessly anti-trade union. Its treatment of its employees is so bad that the company has to replace 600,000 of them each year, just to maintain staff levels."

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## percy toboggan

Why deny Thurso what much of the rest of Britain takes for granted. Choice. It's a double edged sword and local traders will undoubtedly suffer.The common good must prevail, irrespective of high ideals.

I suspect the 'choice' might not last for too long though.

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## thickrodney

> His username says it all...lol



you should see my avatar

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## bagpuss

As I said in another thread, if the fuel price rockets- as it will, no supermarket giant will want to come north- the cost of transporting goods will cancel out any benefit. We're only a small county and an increasing percentage of the population are retired or on benefits. How can poor folk keep 8 supermarkets in business? Not to mention the odd butcher, baker and candlestick maker.

Asda used to be a co-op of dairy farmers who clubbed together to sell their produce at fair prices. Walmart prefer to take farmers to the cleaners and flog GM foods. Will Asda/tesco offer our farmers a decent price for milk etc? Will they want to plant GM crops all over the Highlands? Will they stuff the pupils of THS full of junk food? Will they ruin the view at pennyland and adversely affect the house prices? Tune in for the next thrilling instalment....

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## thickrodney

> As I said in another thread, if the fuel price rockets- as it will, no supermarket giant will want to come north- the cost of transporting goods will cancel out any benefit. We're only a small county and an increasing percentage of the population are retired or on benefits. How can poor folk keep 8 supermarkets in business? Not to mention the odd butcher, baker and candlestick maker.
> 
> Asda used to be a co-op of dairy farmers who clubbed together to sell their produce at fair prices. Walmart prefer to take farmers to the cleaners and flog GM foods. Will Asda/tesco offer our farmers a decent price for milk etc? Will they want to plant GM crops all over the Highlands? Will they stuff the pupils of THS full of junk food? Will they ruin the view at pennyland and adversely affect the house prices? Tune in for the next thrilling instalment....


indeed..

ahh... but will they install a windmill onsite to supply their energy??

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## golach

> i am just pointing out the other side of the arguement 
> 
> "Wal-Mart's power has come at a heavy price for its employees, the environment and the local communities where it operates. Wal-Mart has developed such a poor reputation in the States that it has been forced to build a multi-million dollar public relations unit to deal with the criticism. Wal-Mart has been accused of exploiting workers in some of the poorest countries in the world through its pursuit of "Always Low Prices", while the company has gained a reputation for being ruthlessly anti-trade union. Its treatment of its employees is so bad that the company has to replace 600,000 of them each year, just to maintain staff levels."


I worked part time for Walmart-Asda last year for the Xmas period, I never felt abused or exploited and I was paid just over the minimum legal wage, with lots of fringe benifits. Shelf Stacking is not a job for intilectuals, but it got me out of the house 3 days a week meeting people and nice customers too

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## pultneytooner

> His username says it all...lol


Isn't everyone entitled to their own opinion?

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## jings00

aye everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and if asda is built everyone is entitled to use it... or not.  i doubt very much if i will be goin to the place though.

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## crashbandicoot1979

Interesting links thickrodney. I'm still trying to figure out how ASDA is going to help the local economy in the long run anyway, and this stuff makes me wonder even more....

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## thickrodney

> Interesting links thickrodney. I'm still trying to figure out how ASDA is going to help the local economy in the long run anyway, and this stuff makes me wonder even more....


indeed.

just pointing out the other side of the coin.


BTW.
spotted in my local a$DA, her from little Britain.

 :Smile:

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## robglysen

I dont care if we get Asda, Tesco, Walmart, M&S farm stores or food giant!

I just want choice and competition.

I will be driving all the way from Reay to Tesco's cos CO-OP and Summerfields charge rediculous prices and rip us off.
Also CAITHNESS NEEDS JOBS, even crappy min-wage ones!

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## pultneytooner

> I dont care if we get Asda, Tesco, Walmart, M&S farm stores or food giant!
> 
> I just want choice and competition.
> 
> I will be driving all the way from Reay to Tesco's cos CO-OP and Summerfields charge rediculous prices and rip us off.
> Also CAITHNESS NEEDS JOBS, even crappy min-wage ones!


All the jobs are not minimum wage.

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## changilass

> Will they stuff the pupils of THS full of junk food? ...


Never been in a supermarket yet where they tie up kids and force feed them ::

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## Dreadnought

Say hello to Asda, say goodbye to your small local businesses: butchers, bakers, greengrocers, fishmongers etc.

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## chamb

everyone know that there is 2 sides to every coin as everyone has pointed out already, BUT just think how many people in the town are looking forward to Asda coming, and what better way of life it will create, with the shopper saving money or by asda employing them, what is the homeless rate just now, think how that will reduce, how can these things be bad.

At the Thurso Gala recently myself and other had the Asda Float and the number of people that aproached the float saying how its a great thing and they wish the councillors would realise that thurso needs to move forward.

On the back of the float we gave 10 good reasons for Asda to come to thurso
1   More Choice
2   More Jobs
3   Put Thurso Up there with the rest
4   Stop Local retailers Being Greedy
5   Shoppers stay local
6   Clothes By George
7   Great Deals
8   Lower Fuel Prices
9   Open Lunch Hours
10  Everything Under one roof

If the Local retailers want to survive then they have to catch up and realise that they are only as good as the goods they supply, so they need to open lunch hours, lower prices and supply better goods.

On doing the Float Asda were great to deal with they were helpful, i asked and i got, they gave us T-shirts and 2 20' Banners.

So why cant people just be left to make up there own mind, when the store does come to thurso, they can decide then to shop there or not, but i put my money on more than half that are against will be there like the rest of us.

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## Dreadnought

> On the back of the float we gave 10 good reasons for Asda to come to thurso


1 More Choice

_Only if you want to choose what Asda is willing to stock._

2 More Jobs

_For shelf stackers, till staff and car park shopping trolley collectors at rates only just above minimum wage._

3 Put Thurso Up there with the rest

_...Of the places that no longer have small friendly local shops._

4 Stop Local retailers Being Greedy

_By undercutting them to a point where they cannot compete and go out of business._

5 Shoppers stay local

_Because there is no longer any choice_

6 Clothes By George

_If you are a small, large xlarge, xxlarge size and female because the sizes that sell well and the men's clothing are never restocked. Also 'George' has no idea how to make a pocket, I have a couple of pairs of their trousers and I cannot keep coins in the pockets because when you sit down the whole lot falls out. The clothes are cheap because they don't last five minutes._

7 Great Deals

_Only on selected items_

8 Lower Fuel Prices

_Only lower than the nearest competition._

9 Open Lunch Hours

_Very useful for the local hoodie population_

10 Everything Under one roof

_But with all the regular buys (milk, bread, butter, toilet paper, soaps etc) farthest from the door to make people walk past the rest of the store and maybe spend more than they actually went in to spend._

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## Kingetter

ASDA or whoever would come in at the probable expense of (some) existing local businesses, depriving them and their employees of a job. Some of these businesses have been here for a long time and are part of the Town, and maybe its appeal. They may belong to your friends/neighbours/families.
Is unemployment in Thurso high? 
Are there many of the unemployed suitable for work at ASDA?
Once ASDA is established locally, they will dictate prices and choice to the public and their profits will not be spent locally but whisked away maybe to America.  That what people want?  At least with Tesco, the money stays in Britain, though not maybe in Caithness.
ASDA is not interested in anything but making money out of people.  It might now and again make 'generous' gifts to support some local 'worthy cause' but that money will not be their money but 'tax deductible money'.
They will stock what they want to, not necessarily what people want, but what people will have to take when there's no other choice.
In an age where supermarkets have become an institution pretty much, local shops offering local products will vanish.  If local businesses close, what happens to the shops? Will Estate Agents have a glut of empty ex-shop premises to sell which some developer would grab?
Letting ASDA in is a recipe for the erosion of the Community as you know it.

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## willowbankbear

> I worked part time for Walmart-Asda last year for the Xmas period, I never felt abused or exploited and I was paid just over the minimum legal wage, with lots of fringe benifits. Shelf Stacking is not a job for intilectuals, but it got me out of the house 3 days a week meeting people and nice customers too


Ah but were ye nice back enbra bloke? ::

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## Kingetter

Diga NO a ASDA

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## BIMBO

> 6 Clothes By George
> 
> _ Also 'George' has no idea how to make a pocket, I have a couple of pairs of their trousers and I cannot keep coins in the pockets because when you sit down the whole lot falls out. The clothes are cheap because they don't last five minutes._


So you've obviously already had the choice to try ASDA's stuff and make up your own mind.  Why do you have such a problem with the rest of us making our own choices?   :Confused:   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## bigpete

So we won't be seeing Dreadnought in ASDA then?

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## Dreadnought

> Why do you have such a problem with the rest of us making our own choices?


I don't. If you don't want to hear from those of us with experience of Asda/Walmart and the way they operate, that is your choice, don't read what we write.

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## sjwahwah

> ASDA or whoever would come in at the probable expense of (some) existing local businesses, depriving them and their employees of a job. Some of these businesses have been here for a long time and are part of the Town, and maybe its appeal. They may belong to your friends/neighbours/families.
> Is unemployment in Thurso high? 
> Are there many of the unemployed suitable for work at ASDA?
> Once ASDA is established locally, they will dictate prices and choice to the public and their profits will not be spent locally but whisked away maybe to America.  That what people want?  At least with Tesco, the money stays in Britain, though not maybe in Caithness.
> ASDA is not interested in anything but making money out of people.  It might now and again make 'generous' gifts to support some local 'worthy cause' but that money will not be their money but 'tax deductible money'.
> They will stock what they want to, not necessarily what people want, but what people will have to take when there's no other choice.
> In an age where supermarkets have become an institution pretty much, local shops offering local products will vanish.  If local businesses close, what happens to the shops? Will Estate Agents have a glut of empty ex-shop premises to sell which some developer would grab?
> Letting ASDA in is a recipe for the erosion of the Community as you know it.


Good post kingetter... profits to USA and China tho! :Grin:

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## Kingetter

Sorry sj, not sure what "Good post kingetter... profits to USA and China tho!" means in this context.  However, feeling kinda slow after a good tea which may explain my slowness.

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## bagpuss

Worth remembering that shelf stacking jobs usually go to school pupils- and the more hours they do the lower their grades in exams. Will that please parents and the school? That goes for Tesco as well as Asda, and the existing supermarkets.  

Jobs, yes. Clothes by George- good for school uniform and for those on a budget. (although Florence and Fred are nicer)

We all appear to be so keen on choice, why is no-one hollering for Sainsbury? their prices may not be so cheap but they do sell our local brand mey Selections.

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## thickrodney

> everyone know that there is 2 sides to every coin as everyone has pointed out already, BUT just think how many people in the town are looking forward to Asda coming, and what better way of life it will create, with the shopper saving money or by asda employing them, what is the homeless rate just now, think how that will reduce, how can these things be bad.
> 
> At the Thurso Gala recently myself and other had the Asda Float and the number of people that aproached the float saying how its a great thing and they wish the councillors would realise that thurso needs to move forward.
> 
> On the back of the float we gave 10 good reasons for Asda to come to thurso
> 1   More Choice
> 2   More Jobs
> 3   Put Thurso Up there with the rest
> 4   Stop Local retailers Being Greedy
> ...


your are probably right.
i am just pointing out how destructive these faceless corporations can be.

the front page of asdawatch says "Welcome to AsdaWatch - the website which shines a spotlight on the practises of Asda Wal-Mart. We aim to give shoppers the information they need to make an ethical choice. But we also agree with the majority of shoppers who think the government should bring in new rules to make supermarkets operate fairly."

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## chamb

> i am just pointing out the other side of the arguement 
> 
> "Wal-Mart's power has come at a heavy price for its employees, the environment and the local communities where it operates. Wal-Mart has developed such a poor reputation in the States that it has been forced to build a multi-million dollar public relations unit to deal with the criticism. Wal-Mart has been accused of exploiting workers in some of the poorest countries in the world through its pursuit of "Always Low Prices", while the company has gained a reputation for being ruthlessly anti-trade union. Its treatment of its employees is so bad that the company has to replace 600,000 of them each year, just to maintain staff levels."


so you would be rather ripped off by fat cats up here low pay high prices dont you think its about time somat was done about it

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## chamb

hahaha get in the real world you idiot





> As I said in another thread, if the fuel price rockets- as it will, no supermarket giant will want to come north- the cost of transporting goods will cancel out any benefit. We're only a small county and an increasing percentage of the population are retired or on benefits. How can poor folk keep 8 supermarkets in business? Not to mention the odd butcher, baker and candlestick maker.
> 
> Asda used to be a co-op of dairy farmers who clubbed together to sell their produce at fair prices. Walmart prefer to take farmers to the cleaners and flog GM foods. Will Asda/tesco offer our farmers a decent price for milk etc? Will they want to plant GM crops all over the Highlands? Will they stuff the pupils of THS full of junk food? Will they ruin the view at pennyland and adversely affect the house prices? Tune in for the next thrilling instalment....

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## chamb

we already get the low wages if they come or not up here







> I dont care if we get Asda, Tesco, Walmart, M&S farm stores or food giant!
> 
> I just want choice and competition.
> 
> I will be driving all the way from Reay to Tesco's cos CO-OP and Summerfields charge rediculous prices and rip us off.
> Also CAITHNESS NEEDS JOBS, even crappy min-wage ones!

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## thickrodney

> hahaha get in the real world you idiot


No need to get personal, 

ohh there is always 1. every messageboard is the same.

The point of my thread is A$da.

Eventually they will rip you off thro one form or another.

Look at my first post. I have tried to make caithness folk aware of what they are asking for.

..









...












....

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## Murchiemannie

Asda/Walmart are no better or worse than any other chain  ie: Sainsburys,
Tesco, Morrisons.Lidyl or even M&S Food store.
I shop in Asda weekly and their range and prices are very competitive.
You get what you pay for and that's the bottom line.
They are all in it for what they can get....Profit---so the more competition there is the better for the customer, and I'm sure the extra jobs would be most welcome in Caithness.
These stores are all run in much the same way and I have benefitted from being employed for sixteen years in one of them.
Don't think I would have stayed if I felt exploited in any way.

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## Blazing Sporrans

> Worth remembering that shelf stacking jobs usually go to school pupils- and the more hours they do the lower their grades in exams. Will that please parents and the school? That goes for Tesco as well as Asda, and the existing supermarkets.


Is this not the case since Adam was a boy? I served my 'time' stacking shelves in Wm Lows in Inverness and it did my grades no harm. Are there not indications year on year that the general trend is for increasing numbers getting pass marks in exams anyway?  ::   ::

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## brandy

omg can not belive that asda is being blamed for low grades now?
hmm so no other employer hires young people.. who work more hours for lower pay *laughs* oh my goodness.. im wonderng what planet some people are living on.. 
ok going to have a little rant.
kids will make what grades they make. 
they will study and pass or they wont.
working will not make a dif.
you have to make sacrafice. if they want to work to save money then they will have to sacrafice their free times with their mates to study. if they do not then that is their own fault. 
as for min. wage.. very very few places pay more that min wage. 
i personally think it is horrid how the pay scheme works in this country.
where im from we have a min wage and it dosent matter what the age is.. if you do a job then you are paid for the job you do not the age you are.
why should a 16 year old be paid less than a 30 year old that is doing the same job?
you should be rewarded for the work you do .. the better and longer you do it .. the better you are paid.. common sence in my mind.
but that is another rant.
this community needs an influx of new buisness.
and no i dont belive butchers and bakers will go out of buisness.. as you cant get fresher than them.. and a lot of people just prefer it.
*grins* just like everyone else i have an opinion.. and as my dear mum always says
a opinion is like an armpit everyone has one and usually two! ( and sometimes they can stink!) :Wink:

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## Kingetter

Perhaps EVERYONE who  is interested in the ASDA saga deveopment should read the update on the org's front page.

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## JAWS

> No need to get personal, 
> ohh there is always 1. every messageboard is the same.
> The point of my thread is A$da.
> Eventually they will rip you off thro one form or another.
> Look at my first post. I have tried to make caithness folk aware of what they are asking for.


I did look at your first thread and both the sites. 
Fine. Magic. Some people wish to moan about big business for no other reason than it is "big business". 

The choice is simple, if you don't like ASDA then don't shop at ASDA but leave others to make their own choice. 

The "I don't like it, you shouldn't have it" does not wash and neither does the, "It will be the end of life as we know it" either. 
Supermarkets are not a new idea and haven't been for many decades. I'll guarantee that the same "Shock Horror" mentality did the rounds when "them there new fangled Depart-mental Stores" first opened when Queen Victoria was a girl. And Walmart's great grandfather hadn't even been born then. 

Thes is the 21st Century, deliveries are no longer made by the horse and cart.

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## golach

> No need to get personal, 
> ohh there is always 1. every messageboard is the same.
> The point of my thread is A$da.
> Eventually they will rip you off thro one form or another.
> Look at my first post. I have tried to make caithness folk aware of what they are asking for.


 Maybe your handle says it all. Look at your first post?......Look at the previous posts on the Asda theme in CCWS message boards, and there are a few, you will find you are a very small voice in Caithness, over 2000 Orgers want Asda warts and all.

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## muddywilli

Well after reading all the replies i feel that everyone as always has a valid reason for or against change. Yes local traders will suffer to a degree but will also make them pick there feet up/ sharpen there pencil, call it what you may. Yes there will be new jobs for the community and i expect the salary won't differ much from local existing jobs. 
Life is very easy.. if you don't like something... don't do it for gods sake. It is still by some miracle a free country. The highlands and beyond is a super place and i'm sure a the big boys in the food supply chain ain't gonna be powerful enough to change that. I will no doubt shop in the big supermarket when it opens but that doesn't mean i won't shop local either. You always get that special greeting and smile in a local shop and that is always worth paying that little extra for. As for exploiting people, any employer can manage that if they try. We still live at the present but not for much longer in the sleepy military town of Warminster Wilshire. A new complex of shops is currently being built including a Halfords and Focus DIY. Our local motor factor shop isn't worried in the least.. why.. because he is established, friendly and puts himself out for you when he hasn't got it. Will Halfords do this, you must be kidding. We have a local Ironmongers that have been in the high st for over 100 years, they still sell bolts and nuts loose and nails by the handful... Focus a threat.. i don't think so. 
As for fuel prices, i'm sure i speak for the majority... the car is no longer a luxury and hasn't been for years but a essential and just gets more and more expensive to keep on the road. Please lets have fuel at the best price possible like the rest of the country. 
I am all for supporting the local community, local traders and keeping the town as it is with no empty premises but at the same time i want choice like everyone else.

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## scorrie

> Maybe your handle says it all. Look at your first post?......Look at the previous posts on the Asda theme in CCWS message boards, and there are a few, you will find you are a very small voice in Caithness, over 2000 Orgers want Asda warts and all.


A pretty small-minded response Golach.

Just because someone is in the minority with their opinion, it does not mean that they should be castigated for it. Maybe it is a small voice against the majority of orgers but it is a voice that deserves to be heard.

The human race is, in the majority, ignorant, gullible and tends to follow the flow  without questioning very much. Independent thinking is to be encouraged and it is pretty poor having to resort to quoting numbers, in place of logical argument.

Vive le difference. Don't let opinion polls replace reasoned debate!!

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## bagpuss

As to my earlier comment about school pupils working in supermarkets- we know they all do a heck of a lot more than the 10 hour recommended- and the money isn't usually saved for uni- but spent on a night out. Any parent or teacher will be able to tell you about the misery when the SQA envelope brings bad news- and they are faced with appeals or even worse having to repeat a course. My nephew contemplated suicide when he failed his Maths Higher- after doing too many late shifts.

Why don't more of these jobs go to pensioners? B&Q have an excellent policy which employs older courteous people with manners. Older people are often glad to get out of the house. If Asda does this I for one will applaud them.

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## crashbandicoot1979

> Maybe your handle says it all. Look at your first post?......Look at the previous posts on the Asda theme in CCWS message boards, and there are a few, you will find you are a very small voice in Caithness, over 2000 Orgers want Asda warts and all.


Aye but even those with a small voice are entitled to their opinions. And having an opinion different to the norm doesn't make someone thick!  ::

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## golach

> Aye but even those with a small voice are entitled to their opinions. And having an opinion different to the norm doesn't make someone thick!


I never used that word, you and he/she did

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## rockchick

> Worth remembering that shelf stacking jobs usually go to school pupils- and the more hours they do the lower their grades in exams. Will that please parents and the school? That goes for Tesco as well as Asda, and the existing supermarkets. 
> <snip>


Bagpuss, giving high school students the opportunity to work part-time provides two benefits:  1) helps teenagers to understand that money doesn't grow on trees - you have to work for it, and  2) gives incentive for students (capable ones, anyways) to strive for a higher education so they will qualify for something other than a minimum-wage job.

There is no reason a student can't work 16 hours a week and maintain their educational standard if they are motivated and keep up with their workload.  Might cut into their boy-racer time, perhaps, but IMHO that's not a bad thing.

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## rockchick

Having just come from a jolly in Edinburgh, that land of shops and free-choice, I had opportunity to shop in Asda, Tesco, TK-Maxx, IKEA, Costco, a myriad of little shops too numerous to mention, Argos super-store, and Livingston's MacArthur Glen discount mall...

I can understand now why those who've shopped at Asda want one here.  Everything they have is just that little bit underpriced compared to their competitors; even cheaper than charity shops in some instances.  Quality is so-so, but for our purposes and anybody raising kids it would be fine.  My kids always outgrew their clothes before they outwore them, so cheap-and-cheerful is definitely a bonus!

Bring on Asda!

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## golach

> As to my earlier comment about school pupils working in supermarkets- we know they all do a heck of a lot more than the 10 hour recommended- and the money isn't usually saved for uni- but spent on a night out. Any parent or teacher will be able to tell you about the misery when the SQA envelope brings bad news- and they are faced with appeals or even worse having to repeat a course. My nephew contemplated suicide when he failed his Maths Higher- after doing too many late shifts.
> 
> Why don't more of these jobs go to pensioners? B&Q have an excellent policy which employs older courteous people with manners. Older people are often glad to get out of the house. If Asda does this I for one will applaud them.


Asda do employ the elderly I was 65 when I worked for Asda last year, and I never saw any school children being employed to shelf stack, lots of over 17 year olds, and Students working part time yes, but children no.
Shelf Stacking is not a good reference its should be Stock Control as there is a lot more to it than putting goods on shelves

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## bigjjuk

i was just wondering where bagpuss got the info on school kids getting all the shelf stacking jobs, i could be wrong but i thought shelf stacking in major stores got done during the nite 12am to 7am with tops up being done during school time. Im sure a small majority are shelf stackers but as a whole i would say it would be adults.

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## lisajane874

why should we say no to asda. if the co-op or somerfeilds gave us the comsumers more of a choice then no to asda. but seeing that they dont then bring it on. i cant wait until it is built.

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## obiron

i welcome asda like a lot of people were on a tight budget and could do with reasonably priced goods. there is very little choice in somerfields and every week i find things that i buy have gone up in price. so much for price smashes.  cheaper shopping in asda bring it on.

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## golach

> A pretty small-minded response Golach.
> Just because someone is in the minority with their opinion, it does not mean that they should be castigated for it. Maybe it is a small voice against the majority of orgers but it is a voice that deserves to be heard.
> The human race is, in the majority, ignorant, gullible and tends to follow the flow without questioning very much. Independent thinking is to be encouraged and it is pretty poor having to resort to quoting numbers, in place of logical argument.
> Vive le difference. Don't let opinion polls replace reasoned debate!!


Scorrie I listened and I gave my opinion, I am a small voice in here I am only 5' 6", and if you want to call the 2000+ folk who put their names to the ASDA petition Ignorant and Gullible and not able to make up their own minds then so be it. I would say that the Orgers who did vote were independant thinkers, but who am I? for Scorrie is an honourable orger

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## bigpete

Hi Folks - sorry about this - I'm new -  but what is an 'Orger'

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## golach

> Hi Folks - sorry about this - I'm new - but what is an 'Orger'


you, me, and anyone who come on to Caithness.org i.e "Orgers"

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## bigpete

_"you, me, and anyone who come on to Caithness.org i.e "Orgers"_

thanks golach, bit slow of me there, but I'm knocking on a bit!

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## scorrie

> Scorrie I listened and I gave my opinion, I am a small voice in here I am only 5' 6", and if you want to call the 2000+ folk who put their names to the ASDA petition Ignorant and Gullible and not able to make up their own minds then so be it. I would say that the Orgers who did vote were independant thinkers, but who am I? for Scorrie is an honourable orger


I detect the p being pulled here Golach but I can take it. You did, indeed, listen and then blasted the person for being 1 against 2000.

I don't know about you but I read the online ASDA petition and some of the comments put in supporting ASDA were pretty shallow and did not give much indication of a lot of thought being put to the pros and cons of ASDA coming to Thurso. I would wonder how many of the 2000 plus voters actually know very much about ASDA? I would be prepared to bet that most voters gave it very little thought at all regarding the impact on Thurso, simply wanting a nice big store with no cocern about any potential downside.

Of course the great British public is brainwashed night after night by the advertising executives. I wonder how much money Tesco pays Jimmy Nail to tell you that 60p is cheaper than 79p? (Hey Big Spender)

My statement was that the MAJORITY of the human race is Ignorant and Gullible, I stand by that and most people would know that what I say is true. That means that it is probable that some of the 2000 people who voted for ASDA will be ignorant of the bigger picture to some degree and will also be gullible to some degree. My statement cannot be translated to state that all 2000 people are ignorant. That could only be done by someone either trying to stir the pot or someone who honestly made an error in applying the logic. I hope you were in the latter Golach.

ps I'm 6' 3" but I'm not trying to look down on you Golach.

----------


## robglysen

> My statement was that the MAJORITY of the human race is Ignorant and Gullible,.


Hmm,
I may be ignorant, but I'm not gullible, and the prices Co-OP and Somerfield charge up here are typical of organisations with no competition.
The moment a tesco opened near a Safeways I used to frequent, all the prices dropped.
If the supermarkets we have, wish to remain in business, then they can drop their prices, and give us more choice.  Its not brain surgery, its business.
I dont give rats ass who comes, as long as they bring competition, and JOBS!!

----------


## scorrie

> Hmm,
> I may be ignorant, but I'm not gullible, and the prices Co-OP and Somerfield charge up here are typical of organisations with no competition.


Hmm,

Co-op and Somerfield are in competition with each other!!

You didn't think that one through very well. That is an example of the point I was trying to make.

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## thickrodney

> Hmm,
> I may be ignorant, but I'm not gullible, and the prices Co-OP and Somerfield charge up here are typical of organisations with no competition.
> The moment a tesco opened near a Safeways I used to frequent, all the prices dropped.
> If the supermarkets we have, wish to remain in business, then they can drop their prices, and give us more choice.  Its not brain surgery, its business.
> I dont give rats ass who comes, as long as they bring competition, and JOBS!!


Market forces.

anyway i see in the paper today that a$da has recently joined scheme to use only sustainably grown palm oil, and has pledged to stock only wild caught fish from sustainable fisheries. Are they finally getting their act together??
Just as well $atan's 5 and dime are not looking at putting a store past the split stane....

----------


## bigpete

* "I would wonder how many of the 2000 plus voters actually know very much about ASDA? I would be prepared to bet that most voters gave it very little thought at all regarding the impact on Thurso, simply wanting a nice big store with no cocern about any potential downside"*

What? what are we supposed to know about ASDA? I - like the vast majority - don't give a toss about ethical issues dealing with ASDA, the way (I read earlier) how they sell guns in the US, or pay their workers lower wages. The impact on Thurso will be to stop the petrol cartel ripping us off (12p to transport a litre of petrol from Inverness to Thurso!?come on.) it will stop CWS and Somerfield ripping us off.. Was there an outcry when Presto's came and poor old co-op had competition? Did the 1st petrol station whine when the 2nd or 3rd or 4th petrol station appeared. Come on again this is progress, believe it or not but this process of big stores 'coming to town' has been going on since the 50's. Why is it that Thurso has to be treated differently? as if the rip-off stores are to be protected.
The gulible are those still willing to pay the outrageous prices of food and petrol up here, have you ever wondered how FOUR petrol stations manage to exist up here? they MUSt be making a profit or they would not be in the business. How can shops close at lunchtime - when they have adequate staff for staggered lunches? It's exactly why over £6,000,000 is leaking out of Caithness and down to Inverness/Elgin. 'Potential downside'? yep for the greedy fuel stations and CWS and somerfield (Somerfield is managing - for the first time to have 'buy one get one free', pretty obvious why). These stores are not small; CWS is a massive enterprise as is somerfield, all they have/had to do was reduce their prices to a realistic level - it's that simple.

So we can take it that the poster who says we're gullible and show no concern on the downside WILL NOT be seen shopping in ASDA/TESCO or purchasing their fuel from them? Yeah Right!

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## golach

> I
> My statement was that the MAJORITY of the human race is Ignorant and Gullible, I stand by that and most people would know that what I say is true. That means that it is probable that some of the 2000 people who voted for ASDA will be ignorant of the bigger picture to some degree and will also be gullible to some degree. My statement cannot be translated to state that all 2000 people are ignorant. That could only be done by someone either trying to stir the pot or someone who honestly made an error in applying the logic. I hope you were in the latter Golach.
> 
> ps I'm 6' 3" but I'm not trying to look down on you Golach.


Wow!!! Scorrie, so your saying that the 2000+ petitioners are PROBABLY ignorant to some degree and gullible, that is some statment, what ever logic you apply. I am in no way stirring the pot, and I do not think I have made a mistake or an error in my way of thinking. I am like most folks on the Pro side for Asda to come to Thurso, because I use Asda every week, and I have worked for Asda, I have read the propoganda that "thickrodney" has directed us to, and I choose to ignore it......my choice. A wee question Scorrie, if and when Asda comes to Thurso...I take it your principals will stop you form shopping there then?
ps your height does impress me ::

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## scorrie

> * "I would wonder how many of the 2000 plus voters actually know very much about ASDA? I would be prepared to bet that most voters gave it very little thought at all regarding the impact on Thurso, simply wanting a nice big store with no cocern about any potential downside"*
> 
> What? what are we supposed to know about ASDA? I - like the vast majority - don't give a toss about ethical issues dealing with ASDA.
> 
> 
> So we can take it that the poster who says we're gullible and show no concern on the downside WILL NOT be seen shopping in ASDA/TESCO or purchasing their fuel from them? Yeah Right!


Aye, most fowk don't give a toss about ethics. Does that make it right though?

Dowg eat dowg world, and always will be whilst people continue to believe that "That's Life and I can't do anything about it"

Tesco and ASDA are consumer gobbling machines, sure the Co-op and Somerfield are quite big players too but what Tesco is now cannot be feasibly compared to what Presto ever was, it is the proverbial comparison of Thunder to a fart, and a pretty whispy and watery fart at that. What we see goes beyond healthy competition and has nothing to do with offering the consumer better value for money. It is all about wiping out the opposition and if it were not for legislation preventing the monopoly then Tesco and ASDA would be bigger still and locked in a two way title fight for the heavyweight champion of the UK.

I don't do petrol other than the lawnmower but my brother worked for a petrol company for a good few years. The margins up here are wafer thin and all this talk of cartels is over the top. The fact is that Tesco can afford to sell petrol at a loss to bring punters into their store. Which small scale seller in Caithness can afford to do that?

I won't shop in ASDA at all. I can't say the same for Tesco, I might need to go there for something one day. I do the bulk of my shopping at Lidl, it suits my needs and the prices are realistic. Lidls are able to sell cheaper because they keep running costs down, no big staff numbers and there are no frills. Tesco is cheap because they use their size to hammer the suppliers down and breed a strategy of fear. I wonder how much cheaper Tesco could be if they weren't paying Prunella Scales, Jane Horrocks, John Gordon Sinclair et al to tell you that "Every Little Helps"?

If they stopped paying those actors, whose scruples are lower than a Limbo Dancer wearing a top hat, then they could put some money in the kitty for the PPPPPP (poor people pumped poopily petrolwise Pulteneytown) when they arrive in Wick.

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## bigpete

_Originally Posted by Scorrie: "I would wonder how many of the 2000 plus voters actually know very much about ASDA? I would be prepared to bet that most voters gave it very little thought at all regarding the impact on Thurso, simply wanting a nice big store with no concern about any potential downside"_ 

_Allegedly by Bigpete:  "what are we supposed to know about ASDA? I - like the vast majority - don't give a toss about ethical issues dealing with ASDA. So we can take it that the poster who says we're gullible and show no concern on the downside WILL NOT be seen shopping in ASDA/TESCO or purchasing their fuel from them? Yeah Right!"_

_Scorrie writes: 'Aye, most fowk don't give a toss about ethics. Does that make it right though? '_

_Come on Scorrie by quoting me out of context is a bit sneaky, the rejoinder was: "don't give a toss about ethical issues dealing with ASDA, the way (I read earlier) how they sell guns in the US, or pay their workers lower wages."_ 
_So Scorrie uses Lidl? goodness me Scorrie, just put in 'Lidl exploitation' in Google and you'll see they are just as 'bad' as all the others - what about your 'local' store Fraser's?, but you prefer to give your money to Germany? In Lidl "the prices are realistic."? you've answered the point Scorrie; we want ASDA / Tesco as "the prices are realistic" If you're after an ethical, unexploited supermarket, you won't find one mate, it's the nature of the beast._ 

_Scoria: "Dowg eat dowg world, and always will be whilst people continue to believe that "That's Life and I can't do anything about it" is pretty facile. You, in fact are 'doing nothing about it' by allowing the rip-off status quo to continue! we (the 2,800 signatures) ARE doing something about it, we are NOT allowing us to be the dowg, we no longer want to ripped off by fuel prices, 'wafer thin margins' yeah right - come on, in a business no-one would stay in the job if it were not profit-making.  Presumable Inverness (12p cheaper) are on 'wafer thin margins' too? - incidentally today Tesco has just lopped 2p a litre off their pump prices (the wife and I will be off in an hour)!.. 

Scorrie: Tesco and ASDA are consumer gobbling machines, sure the Co-op and Somerfield are quite big players too but what Tesco is now cannot be feasibly compared to what Presto ever was, it is the proverbial comparison of Thunder to a fart, and a pretty whispy and watery fart at that. What we see goes beyond healthy competition and has nothing to do with offering the consumer better value for money. It is all about wiping out the opposition and if it were not for legislation preventing the monopoly then Tesco and ASDA would be bigger still and locked in a two way title fight for the heavyweight champion of the UK._



_My point ref Presto was that historically speaking things progress, once upon a time in Thurso there was a little grocers on the corner, another one decided to open, there was a big upset caused by this, 'another shop opening to take away our business' they said. then another one opened 'it's the end of the world' they all said, then Presto's came and affected CWS, then Lidl came and CWS put in objections, 'they will affect our profit' they said. But they are all still here.. it's a normal, natural progression and ASDA and Tesco are part of that progressiveness._ 
_
I don't do petrol other than the lawnmower but my brother worked for a petrol company for a good few years. The margins up here are wafer thin and all this talk of cartels is over the top. The fact is that Tesco can afford to sell petrol at a loss to bring punters into their store. Which small scale seller in Caithness can afford to do that?_
*
*_You don't do petrol and you berate us car users? 'nough said.  By your posting you are basically saying that because the present outlets cannot compete against the 'big ones' we shouldn't let them in? At the moment Highland Council reckons that six million quid is being spent outwith the county, that's Thurso and Wick folk driving down to Inverness for their shopping, so it's obvious that if ASDA is here a LOT of that six million quid will be retained, right fair enough into ASDA's coffers BUT also into the pockets of the staff that will work there, we - the consumers - will have more for our money.. Folk will use the town for their small bits - as whilst now they don't as it's all 'down the line'._
_
I won't shop in ASDA at all. I can't say the same for Tesco, I might need to go there for something one day. I do the bulk of my shopping at Lidl, it suits my needs and the prices are realistic. Lidls are able to sell cheaper because they keep running costs down, no big staff numbers and there are no frills. Tesco is cheap because they use their size to hammer the suppliers down and breed a strategy of fear. I wonder how much cheaper Tesco could be if they weren't paying Prunella Scales, Jane Horrocks, John Gordon Sinclair et al to tell you that "Every Little Helps"? If they stopped paying those actors, whose scruples are lower than a Limbo Dancer wearing a top hat, then they could put some money in the kitty for the PPPPPP (poor people pumped poopily petrolwise Pulteneytown) when they arrive in Wick._
_Do you really beleive that by not putting adverts on the telly that Tesco's prices would be lower, Tesco has stores all over the world, their advertising budget would maybe knock 0.01p off a tin of beans, so that's a non-starter. PPPPPP 'petrolwise'? what for your lawnmower?_

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## crashbandicoot1979

I agree with Scorrie, most pro-ASDA people are simply thing "ooh, cheaper food" with very little thought to the economy as a whole. OK, maybe ASDA will be a good thing. Some of the better researched arguements on here state that they will. Other well researched arguements state that they won't. Fine. We won't know until the long term who is right or wrong. But people make such a fuss about loving Caithness/Thurso/whatever - if they gave a hoot about their community they would do their homework before making assumptions EITHER WAY. Everyone is entitled to an opinion regardless of what they base the opinion on, but one way or another ASDA is going to have an inpact on Caithness, good or bad, so if people care less about the long term good of the area, they should be researching this as much as possible. I'm not getting at anyone who has given their views on this thread BTW - in my opinion all the points that have been given are reasonable and thought out.

As for me, I'm more anti than pro, but I am keeping an open mind.

I for one am not interested in ethical issues per se either because as far as I am concerned, supermarkets are all unethical and if I cared about the ethics I would have to boycott them all. What I DO care about is the local community being supported, hence I shop at the Co-op because they make the effort to stock and sell local veg, which I think is an excellent idea. As for ASDA, I can't say I won't shop there if/when it appears, but I can say that I will still shop at the bakers, butchers, newsagents, fish shop etc in the town centre regardless of whether ASDA comes or not. (Unlike a lot of the pro-ASDA gang, who have announced that they are never shopping in Thurso again because ASDA has been turned down).

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## scorrie

Phew Bigpete, you must have a lot of time on your hands to analyse all that and format it in an "I say, you say" style.

Dealing with the main points.

My brother knows exactly how much petrol was bought in for and how much it was sold for. He says it was a tiny margin, you are saying he is lying. I know who I believe. Incidentally, the garage in question went out of business, hardly likely if they were taking the eyes out of Caithness motorists.

You talk about things progressing, and they have since Presto's, time but progress is not an infinite possibility. Wick already has three supermarkets, can you seriously say that there is room for Tesco all of a sudden, considering that the population and employment is supposed to be on the wane?

Quite how you quantify and qualify Lidls as being "as bad as the rest" is something I would find hard to prove categorically. Some of the money I spend there goes to Wick employees and I used the words "realistic prices" to indicate a high quality to price ratio. ASDA and Tesco are cheap because they squeeze the life out of suppliers and some of the goods are pretty basic.

Tesco spend £50 Million per year on advertising. If they have 10 Million customers that is a fiver each, a bit more than a hundreth of a penny of a tinny of beans!!

Finally, and this is my last word on the subject, The Co-op have been at the forefront of what little has been done ethically by supermarkets. They introduced Fairtrade products, Freedom Food, better product labelling, operate a community dividend scheme etc and I think it is a bit harsh to lob them in the same category as the corporate vacuum cleaners.

Good luck with your cheap petrol. 2p or not 2p that is the question?

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## Humerous Vegetable

Did anyone see the report in the Press & Journal today, where Asda and Tesco are reducing petrol prices (Asda to 93.9 *nationally*) because of the fall in wholesale fuel prices? *13p a litre less* than we are paying in Thurso...or do you think local filling stations are going to let us benefit from fuel price reductions too?????
No, neither do I.

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## robglysen

> Hmm,
> 
> Co-op and Somerfield are in competition with each other!!
> 
> You didn't think that one through very well. That is an example of the point I was trying to make.


Noooo,
They are in a monopoly, neither will reduce prices as they know there is enough cream for both of them. Once an alpha male comes on the scene, they are both screwed.

EDIT: Also, I think asda would be good for thurso, as people do their big shop in asda, they may wander round thurso, as I'll go to tescos, go round wick and drive straight back to Reay pretty much non stop, sorry thurso.

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## bagpuss

Spare a thought for those of us who arrive home from work far too late to go to the local butcher, baker , fishmonger etc, and have to frequent supermarkets. I freely admit to buying my meat, fish , bread etc from the supermarkets. I like Lidl because they don't irradiate their fruit, and tend to conform to European standards- their chocolate is real chocolate- not the rubbish that Cadbury's etc try to fob us off with. True the meat isn't that good, but I cook it in a slow cooker.

When Asda, and dare I say Tesco, open, there will be hordes like me who will be filling their baskets and petrol tanks, and no doubt, all this fuss will soon be forgotten. True, eventually the wee butchers will probably follow the lead of the three in Wick that have closed down over the past year or so, and gradually we'll get used to buying houses in the town centre rather than our messages.

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## MadPianoPlayer

say no to asda and save all our wee shops. if we dont then many jobs in other shops with be given up because they arent selling anything!

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## mickey101

Hi
    Okay for all your romantics out there here is a bit of crytsal ball gazing.

1) If we dont have a large Supermarket in Thurso then folks that is the end for all those wee shops in Thurso.  Why?  Because everyone from out west will drive through through Thurso to Wick and do all their shoping there. Where as before they stayed at this side of the county.
2) All the people from between Thurso and Wick who use to do the same and go to the nearest town will do exactly the same.
3) A very large percentage of the population of Thurso will go to Wick and do all there shopping there.
End result Thurso dies and Wick thrives.
Why do you think the Thurso traders are all for the Asda development.  Because they can join the dots and see the future.

I would like to hear of One "wee shop" that will suffer if ASDA comes here.  Go on give me one.  I expect someone to pipe up Sommerfield or the Coop in which case my answer is simple.  Give a decent service and FIGHT for your customers like every one else, because right now we dont get either.

Last but not least Petrol well folks get real.  Have any of you done a quick back of the envelope calc to see how much it costs to take a tanker this far north of Inverness?  I think you will be surprised? I wil give you a hint it works out at a couple of pence a litre max not the current 10 plus pence we see ight now.  Someone is taking us for a ride BIG STYLE.
BTW can any of you think back too before petrol was sold in litres.  The price difference was usual around 10pence.  Now suddenly when it is sold in litres the difference is 50 pence.  ah those wafer thin margins are a killer.  

Frankly I dont give a rats back end if it is ASDA or any other large supermarket chain.  None of them are angels, far fom it.
What i am fed up of is getting poor choice, poor service, paying through the nose for it and then i am expect to be grateful.

So to all you romantics out there and our local council Muppets.  Keep protecting your mates and take fiddle lessons so you can play a merry litle ditty while Thurso DIES.

M

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## mostlyharmless

yep I agree with your main points there, makes you wonder why the co-op and somerfield don't make a better fist of keeping or attracting more customers now before its too late?
Empty shelves badly layed out aisles silly prices no thats not attractive at all.
Maybe its easier to stop other supermarkets coming than it is to make a better fist of serving the public they rely on ...

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## bigpete

Hi Folks
Earlier someone asked about the letter in the P&J, here 'tiz:

*Price of fuel in thurso*

Sir, - I read with some amusement the outrage in the P&J concerning Tesco's fuel prices in Inverness, as compared with those in Elgin.
If Inverness drivers want to be ripped off properly, they should come to Thurso, where we have been paying £1.09.9p a litre for some time.
there are no supermarkets with filling stations in Caithness - we almost had one in Thurso, but Caithness councillors, with their usual reluctance to represent the views of their electorate, decided to refuse planning permission.
It does not impinge, after all, on their ability to travel. We, the council-tax payers, finance their travel expenses. We might not be able to afford to go anywhere ourselves, but, thank God, we can ensure that councillors remain mobile.
I anticipate a flurry of spurious concern for the poor voter next May, however. If they fail to get re-elected, they might have to pay for their own fuel" 
Pam McMahon, Thulachan, Weydale, Thurso

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## changilass

Sentiments of the letter amusing and to the point, however, if no one stands against the councillors, they will simply get in again anyway.

I am like the majority of folk in the area in that I don't have the time or the inclination to stand for the post.

There are a number of very good councillors who spend a lot of time helping to improve things for us, and these should be congratulated. :Grin:  

How many folk would be willing to give the time and energy needed to fill the post, and if they did, could they truely say they would be able to remain impartial enough not to put their own needs before those of the electorate.

You can please some of the people some of the time, but you will never please all of the people all of the time.

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## bosco

I dont know what all the fuss is all about the wee shops getting pushed out as the big super markets move in, i live in kirkcaldy fife,and we have about 5 super markets and all the wee shops are still  makeing living, also alot cheaper petrol , :Smile:

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## mickey101

HI Scorrie
             Saying your rant was aimed at me I get a return shot.  Tell me ONE yes ONE wee shop that will be effected by a large supermarket chain opening in Thurso.
I will start you off
1) Chemist shops err nope ASDA don't have a pharmacy, and Semi Chem are already taking a bite out of them.
2) Iron Monger err nope ASDA dont have an ironmonger section
3) Mackays err yes possibly but I doubt it
4) Shoe Shops.  err nope ASDA dont do quality shoes
5) Florists err nope ASDA dont sell specialist flowers
6) Mackays grocery err nope he has survived with Sommerfield and Coop and I have no doubt he will continue to do so regardless of the competition.  Why he gives good service. 
7) Clothes shops err nope I will still go to the same place for my designer jeans etc.  Sorry Wranglers are the only thing that reaonably fit my rapidly expanding back end and I am of the wrong generation anyway.
8) Bakery well ASDA do have a bakery and so do Sommerfield and Coop so no difference there.
10 ) Butchers err nope I suspect that most people go to the guy they trust, for me it is Bews
11)Petrol retailer ERR YES AND ABOUT TIME TOO
12)Current Supermarkets ( they dont qualify as WEE shops) err yes and about time too and the solution is in there hands it is called FIGHT for people's custom instead of taking it for granted.
13) Travel Agents err nope ASDA dont do holidays.
14) Newagents err nope ASDA flog mags but they dont deliver.

So Scorrie let have your uncontradictory response.

M

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## DrSzin

I think there's an element of truth in mickey101's posts. People are more likely to visit other retail establishments if they've driven 20 or 30 miles to Tesco in Wick than if they've just gone down the road (or driven only 10 miles) to ASDA in Thurso. In particular they might visit the retail park and buy goods that they wouldn't bother going to Wick for otherwise. The route between Tesco and the retail park goes through the middle of town, with perhaps a stop for lunch and a purchase or two here and there. It's like a day out to Inverness but on a smaller scale. (I'm not 100% sure where Tesco is being built, so please correct me if I'm wrong about the middle-of-town bit.)

Small shops in Thurso will surely lose some business to the plethora of new shops in Wick if ASDA doesn't come to Thurso. And they will lose some business to ASDA if it does. However, I wouldn't like to predict the magnitudes of the two effects. But I don't need to predict the first effect because it will happen, and it can be measured. And we will even be able to compare the two effects if ASDA comes to Thurso (because Tesco will open first.) Ok, the Tesco-without-ASDA effect would likely be short-lived and dominated by transients, but I'm sure Thurso's small businesses will soon tell us how they're being affected!

I also assume that Wick's new shopping Mecca will drain some of the retail spend that used to leak out to Inverness, so Caithness will get a bigger share of the pie either way.

So, does the average Caithnessienne benefit from profits made by national chains, or is she better-off supporting local businesses? Well, she doesn't benefit directly from profits made by local retailers, so no joy there. What about profits made by Tesco, ASDA, Homebase, Argos, etc? Well, many of us have pension funds, endowment mortgages, and other forms of savings that are invested in the stockmarket either directly or indirectly (via bank lending, etc.) If any of these funds are invested in the aforementioned shops, then we all gain if their share prices go up when business is good. So we should be delighted when local shops lose business to the national chains! Of course, even if this does happen it's too simple-minded to be the whole story: we may not profit directly when a local businessman makes profits, but he will put some of those profits back into the local economy to the benefit of all. And so on...

What was the point of these meandering hypothetical dirges? A good question perhaps!  Well, I would say they are no less sound than Scorrie's hypotheses, and they perhaps serve to illustrate the complexity of the issues.

If I lived in Thurso I would want ASDA or Tesco simply because, in my experience, they are both a lot better than the three existing supermarkets. I've never been in a half-decent Somerfield or Co-op anywhere in Britain, and I can't stand Lidl for reasons that I've never really pinned down.  :Embarrassment: 

And finally... Scorrie's last post is a rant. And a rather rude one imho. It's better not to reply at all if you don't have the time or inclination to enter into reasoned debate with those whose opinions you disagree with. Shame on you.  ::

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## Rheghead

> It's like a day out to Inverness but on a smaller scale.


I haven't been one for shopping down Inverness cos I hate shopping with a vengeance but I have started to go to Wick more often, mostly because of Homebase, so yes, times are a changing.

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## mickey101

Hi Scorrie
             I could answer you by saying that your opinions are blinkered, dogmatic and one sided but I think I will refrain.
I have layed out what I believe is a logical arguement as to why Thurso will lose out big time if we do not get a large supermarket in Thuso and why the local retailers base will not be devasted ( as you insist will happen) if such a development did go ahead.
In both cases you have declined to engage in the debate and have not come up with a counter arguement of your own.  Instead taking the easy way out both times.( looking back at this thread that seems to be your style) 

By the way to counter your petrol argument I wonder how long it will take Tesco to start offering money off petrol for people who buy so much.  I would wager not very long indeed.

I am not one of the masses that have been branded by you as ignorant and gullable.( which I also think is hghly rude) 
So if you want to be taken seriously I suggest you engage in a proper debate by putting forward your own point of view instead of taking the easy option as you have done so far.

M

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## scorrie

> Hi Scorrie
>              I could answer you by saying that your opinions are blinkered, dogmatic and one sided but I think I will refrain.
> I have layed out what I believe is a logical arguement as to why Thurso will lose out big time if we do not get a large supermarket in Thuso and why the local retailers base will not be devasted ( as you insist will happen) if such a development did go ahead.
> In both cases you have declined to engage in the debate and have not come up with a counter arguement of your own.  Instead taking the easy way out both times.( looking back at this thread that seems to be your style) 
> 
> By the way to counter your petrol argument I wonder how long it will take Tesco to start offering money off petrol for people who buy so much.  I would wager not very long indeed.
> 
> I am not one of the masses that have been branded by you as ignorant and gullable.( which I also think is hghly rude) 
> So if you want to be taken seriously I suggest you engage in a proper debate by putting forward your own point of view instead of taking the easy option as you have done so far.
> ...


My apologies. I am not picking on you in particular, I did start my original reply by saying that your post was typical of what I view as the flawed logic displayed by many. I would have responded to your list of points but, as I said, I don't have the time to go through them all.

As I explained earlier, I consider that the human race is, by and large, ignorant and gullible. That is my opinion and I stand by it. I am sorry that people seem to find that this is a rude statement, it is simply a statement of fact in my opinion. If EVERYONE who voted for ASDA has studied the situation thoroughly and weighed up the pros and cons before voting, then my statement is clearly wrong. My opinion, based on what I have read and what I have heard from people, is that this is not the case. Some people are clearly ignorant of the facts regarding ASDA, Tesco and business/economics in general, that is a statement of fact and entirely different from saying that someone is an ignorant person per se. As far as gullible goes, I have a personal opinion that the human being is largely a herd type animal which is easily led. It is the reason that we have a world where millions starve whilst we spend Billions on nuclear weapons and a half-wit has his finger on the button. If that is not the case then my apologies to all concerned.

I'm off to delete my previous posts in this thread.

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## golach

> ASDA, It is the reason that we have a world where millions starve whilst we spend Billions on nuclear weapons and a half-wit has his finger on the button.


Hmmmmm never knew Asda stocks nuclear weapons, do I find them in "Home & Leisure" or in the "DIY" sections ::

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## scorrie

> Hmmmmm never knew Asda stocks nuclear weapons, do I find them in "Home & Leisure" or in the "DIY" sections


8 out of 10 sheep prefer Tesco for their Nookyoulur requirements Golach ;o)

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## Gross

You may be interested to know that London's Evening Standard newspaper has had a compaign for several months now on saving London's shops.

Yes, London. Population of MILLIONS - and the dominance of supermarkets is causing alarm bells as long established shops close, in a city with no shortage of shoppers.

And you could argue that people are choosing to shop at supermarkets, and local shops will go the way of the bread delivery man as peoples tastes change, but do you really think that these fantastic offers and deals that are so tempting will still be around when Tesco, Asda and Sainsburys have carved up the country?

I still shop at Tesco, because I like their choice, but also at the Co-Op and a local Somerfield. Tesco has become like some kind of Shrangri La to Caithness folk, the fulfillment of all they ever wished for. Which is weird.

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